HL2 - Missed the Bar...

[Ennui]

grunts are from HL1. they're the uber-intelligent (for that time period anyway) military dudes that come to erase you.

HL1 and HL2 aren't really comparable - both are extremely advanced for their respective times, and they've got totally different stories.

In my opinion, Half-Life 2 is the greatest game I have ever played, and Half-Life is the second.

Oh yeah... Odysseus... thought you were leaving? Everyone's tired of your little "Well, I didn't like it so I sold it" and "I was disappointed, I feel torn up, I'm going to go write in my tearstained journal and cut myself because of it" threads and posts.

 

[NickOuellette]

I think the ambiguity may have been a bit overdone, but that is without a doubt the greatest PC game of all time. Oddly enough, I hated the first game, but HL2 was truly amazing.

 

[NormalSim12]

the problem is, a lot of people that dont like half life two are the type that have come to expect a run and gun FPS - like the halo and doom series.

half life 2 is the thinking man's FPS.

that is, UNtiL StAlKER cOMES OUT!
if you wanna throw the word fanboy around, don't bring up Stalker
(or however you spell it)

oh yeah and out of curiosity, what are the "new" FPS conventions that this game will bring to the table? I keep hearing that they are there but i duno what they are. Sounds like an RPG with a camera stuck in the players face instead of over his shoulder. lets start the revolution baby.

 

[jsc1286]

Dang, I'm late in this conversation! I stopped reading after page 11 by the way so if this stuff was already mention so shoot me

As far as I know, Half-Life 2 did raise the bar. Granted, distribution platforms such as Steam have a high chance of becoming mainstream in the near future. The sheer genius of removing the publisher and allowing integrated upgrades the moment they're finished if beyond belief. However, you must remember Steam is still the first of its kind, and it will get better. I foresee other developers trying to pump out their own versions of Steam with less problems (although I had none, it went smooth as hell on release day).

What else? Oh, just the physics. Sure, Max Payne 2 and other great games like Far Cry did use physics, however it never fully utilized the Havok or Crytek engines to full capacity. Source (which itself uses a highly modified Havok engine) incorporates physics INTO the gameplay, creating a wholly realistic gaming experience like never before. Furthermore, current rumors (actually facts) indicate that the Doom3 expansion with include "The Grabber." What the flip is a Grabber you ask? Well, it's a dumbed down Manipulator. Also, a third party is adding a type of "Gravity Gun" to Far Cry. As it can clearly be seen, developers are scrambling to find ways to just match Half-Life 2... For now, Half-Life 2 is king.

 

[Washuu]

Comparing Half-life2 to any other First Person Shooter's story, it is very impressive. Most fps games are ww2, a prebuilt plot. Other than that I have never seen as good of a game for a fps, If you really want a good story, I wouldn't go for a FPS.

 

[SlayeR1]

To put it in as few words as possible, HL2 has gravgun, HL1 does not. Case closed.

Guess you never played around with Drunken_F00l's ent mod for HL1(CS, TFC, ect)?

 

[Thadius Dean]

i do admit HL has a charm that HL2 doesnt have...

i think its the fact that you are all alone in the facility. (apart from the occasional barnies and scientists)
in HL2 you have people fighting with you.

just loved that feeling loading up a save game, have that splash screen pull up like a curtain and being exposed to a dark office hallway with a hanging wire giving off sparks that flicker shadows on the walls...

 

[PoeticRocker]

All you whiners are ungrateful for the tremendous work valve put in this game. "Raising the bar" doesn’t mean its introducing the next best gameplay elements. They probably meant trying to outperform hl1 and giving us the true sequel. Even for a game that was suppose to be released in 2003; it’s still considered by some the best fps of all time. I’m just going to assume you selfish people are halo 2 fans.

 

[MÆST]

Raising the Bar is just wordplay with respect to Gordon's crowbar. Get over it.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

I guess i'm in the same boat! To answer the question "what were you expecting?" Well, Half the videos we see didn't even happen in the game (the hydra and the dock with the zombies not at all, and the strider scene with the wave distortion ray:barely happens, as with the Impaling of people on the strider legs.).We get a FPS that has better than average facial expressions. I can get realistic monsters watching jurasic park! The AI is lame, There is not a progressive difference between the lower level grunts and the Elite's. They act the same! The creatures follow a standard pattern too. The game was more time consuming than challenging.Seriously, did you die all that much? It feels like a rushed game. No level being really harder than the other. you can almost take the levels and mix them up and it could end the same.So, on top of lame gameplay we get a re-hashed old CS on the new engine. No HL2 MP? I paid $20 for halo and got months of replay value. I pay $55 for this and I am totally done with this game in less than 2 weeks, no more i can do with it. I don't even want to go into the whole steam BS. I hear that we can't even sell this game because it is directly associated with our steam account which is connected to our e-mail, how asinine is that? I know all the fanboy's are creaming their jeans over this game but for us gamers that just want an entertaining game?, this falls short.I'm letting everyone i know play the hell out of my copy on my system,so they don't have to waste their money.

 

[alpha_crusis]

No HL2 MP? I paid $20 for halo and got months of replay value. I pay $55 for this and I am totally done with this game in less than 2 weeks, no more i can do with it.

Mods.

Two months of replay value for HALO? Heck, I'm still playing HL1's mods. What's that, 6 years of replay value?!

Seriously, if you don't like Half-Life 2, stop wasting your time posting your "I hate HL2, I want to cry and kill Gabe for giving me this s***!". I hate Doom 3, and I've never wasted my time on any Doom 3's forum and post my rant about how much I hate Doom 3. Because it's a GAME. And there are a lot more GAMES out there that you can buy and play. Get over it!

edit : that's not personally addressed to you, it's for everyone who can't get over this GAME

 

[Sharrd]

Mods.

Two months of replay value for HALO?

He did just say "months". That could mean 11 months for all you know.
I have this to say about this thread: don't give a damn about what others think of the game, in your opinion it's just their loss, right?

 

[PoeticRocker]

Halo 2 still sits in my cupboard ever since I got Nov 9 (it was that bad). I now have no ambition in beating that boring lifeless game, so no playability pretty much for me. The AI in hl2 is not lame; it’s just the same as the AI in halo 2 and all other games. I’m glad you all can’t sell your steam games, just more money that valve deserves and the contribution to future kick*** games by valve. Here’s to the dust that will gather on Halo 2!

 

[Mytris]

Grunts? Grunts are Military Guys pretty much. Not combine...

NiBully, can you make better. If not, stfu.

He has the right to say what ever he wishes about the game, If he think it waz poor then guess what he is going to say its poor, also i think its poor too, Its a good construct just needs more input but with outside data this can not happen. This " can you make it better" lol this is a simplistic child like remark.

 

[subtlesnake]

I guess i'm in the same boat! To answer the question "what were you expecting?" Well, Half the videos we see didn't even happen in the game (the hydra

The hydra was taken out because it was not fun to fight.

and the dock with the zombies not at all

What was special about the dock?

No level being really harder than the other.

The levels at the beginning were easier, near the end you'd be in situations where you'd be fighting against 2 striders and waves of respawning combine troops.

you can almost take the levels and mix them up and it could end the same.

It's the same thing with HL.

I know all the fanboy's are creaming their jeans over this game but for us gamers that just want an entertaining game?, this falls short.

I'm really sorry for liking the game. I tried to hate it because you hated it, but it didn't work.

I guess I'm just a stupid fanboy ;(

 

[Absinthe]

hl2 r0x0rz meh b0x0rz

And that's all I have to say.

 

[jamespow]

He has the right to say what ever he wishes about the game

The fact that he hates the game is not the issue here. What I still can't grasp is why someone would provoce those who actually like the game by throwing their hatred in their faces.

 

[Maelstrom]

There was very little in this thread that I found logical, productive, or valuable. However, the argument it is based on is quite interesting and completely fair, and I am glad that it is here.

1) Everyone is allowed an opinion. Instead of calling someone a Halo 2 fanboy because they didn't like the game, or (more commonly) they enjoyed it but were disappointed by aspects, let them say what they have to say, and why they think so, and consider it. Then reply maturely.

2) Conversely, there is no need to be aggressive or rude to people who don't agree with you about the game being bad. Just because someone liked the game doesn't make them a HL2 Fanboy, it just means they liked it.

So, where do I sit (other than 15 pages in)?

I am a HUGE Half-life fan. I've played it (HL1) through more than any other game. I was expecting a lot from Half-Life 2, and am still embarrased at how much time I spent looking for news or re-watching the Binks.

But I was still disappointed at HL2 in many ways. Was it the most fun I've ever had playing a game? I think so. I loved it, I laughed, I gaped in awe (and died many times because I was having too much fun covering zombies in paint) and I smiled all the way through. This is the only game that I can remember my dad (not interested in games at all) actually staying around watching and asking me questions about. Despite all that, I still wished for more exotic baddies, more extra-terrestrial weapons, more conversations and scenes with the Primary Characters, and more physics puzzles. I was totally choked when it ended, that was NOT satisfying at all, in my opinion. But I still loved it, still play it, and can't wait for the SP mods to start rolling out. It reminds me a LOT of how I felt watching Matrix 2, and I hope the next iteration will come as soon as Matrix 3 did (yeah right).

What am I getting at?

Let people think things that are contrary to your opinion. It makes you rethink your opinions, and force you to find justification, which is good. If you were right, you will discover why. If you were wrong, at least now you know. And you may also discover that the argument is subjective, and so there IS no right answer.

If you have an argument, then make it. But you better support it with facts. Otherwise, don't flame someone, just agree to disagree.

Just because HL2 was amazing to you, don't be afraid of finding faults. Nothing is perfect, and by pointing out what could have been better, Valve will learn what they should reconsider in future versions. If everyone said the whole game was perfect in every way, HL3 would be nothing more than an expansion pack.

There has been a lot of anger in this thread. Just sit back and relax, a few disappointed people won't make the game any less fun to YOU, so stop getting offended by it and try considering what turned them off of it, and why, and how you were able to overcome (or not notice) those apparent shortcomings. It will help you grow as a person, and help people like me not have to read idiotic crap like "well if you dont like it YOUR STUPID and just go die".

 

[Mr.Wotsit]

Right, I'm back and I've caught up on what has happened since I went to bed.

The comments of characters here like Odysseus and Spartan are really quite 2D and simple. You're saying how you were disappointed in the storyline and don't believe that Valve took the actions they have taken for any reasons. Now I have a couple of problems with this.

Firstly, you're simply saying you didn't enjoy the way something was done. Now that's clearly your right as a presumably sensible human. However, the examples of techniques that have been added to this genre will have an influence on what comes next.
Few games would dare hold the character in a metal cage for the majority of the last level with only the ability to move their head. The glimpses you get of the inside of the citadael are timed so well that, first time round, you're perfectly teased.

For me, the citadael was the payoff for a lot of the plot - you find this enormous factory that's churning out combine troops and machines, you hear much more from Dr.Breen and the way it is done is different to how it has been done before by the majority of games in this genre.
The storyline is present, thought through and implemented in a way different to what has gone before. The philosophy of making Gordon an individual upon which the player can impose himself has prevented Valve giving him dialogue and his unquestioning acceptance of the things around him is something Breen actually taunts him about later in the game. Valve are aware of what they have done, these are not amateurs that have spent 20 minutes coding a game at home.

They could afford to get things right. They could afford to spend years honing a facial technology beyond that available to the competition. They could spend years playing through the levels and tweaking each moment to ensure the flow was correct. They could spend years making varied and interesting environments that would give the player a change of surroundings and the opportunity to play around with some of the tools that had been given to him. And they did all these things.
They spent years doing these things and in ways that have rarely been approached and as well executed in the genre before.
Now, good example of what I admire about Valve?

Example number 1: The gravity gun.
Lots of games have had physics. Physics are interesting and can lend the world you play in a sense of reality. However, they are also enormously fun and, the extent to which physics are apparent in a game absolutely depends on how many situations are implemented that make them obvious.
Games like Max Payne 2 have physics that made me go wow as I saw paintcans flip through the air in slow motion and bash into the cartwheeling corspe of one of my enemies.
But with Half Life 2, Valve have raised the bar in terms of what will now be expected of the use of physics in a game. By including a weapon that allows you direct interaction and manipulation of the physical objects around you, they made this part of the engine more than just a cosmetic feature. So they put in the gravity gun as a playable weapon because they find out it's fun. However, there are limits to what you can do with the gravity gun, not because of limits in the engine but because of repeated playtesting that will have shown what level of power made it useful without making it over powerful.
So, now they have a great new weapon in the game that adds a whole new dimension to the entire genre. And what do they do with it? They build it it's own entire part of the game which also allows them to introduce a cool new area to the game that embellishes on the storyline and adds variety. Now, they kill so many birds with one stone with this that it's not even worth counting. It fills out the world that we are supposed to be playing in, there are great reasons for it's inclusion and I challenge anyone to say that they didn't enjoy throwing buzzsaws through rows of howling burning zombies...

My point is that, yes Valve have a nice little engine but the way they have used it and pushed every aspect to higher levels than most would perhaps have the freedom and opportunity to do is something that has now set a higher standard in many areas. Some of these areas have been created by them, others are just refinements on what has gone before.
Sure, it's not as revolutionary as Half Life 1, but it's a serious and significant evolutionary step for the genre.

You can't judge a game on what the developers ideally would have liked to have put into it otherwise Peter Moleneux would be hanging from a gutter by now. You can't try and punish them for not being able to get everything they want to into the finished product, especially when they have such high targets.

P.S. It can be hard to have a proper discussion like this sometimes when some people on both sides start to miss the point and lower the tone. It wastes everyone's time so let's leave terms like "fanboy" and any references to Halo 2 in a negative manner out of this. I thought Halo was a fantastic game (especially in co-op) and am looking forward to playing the sequel if I ever buy a cheap X Box. I don't see why people have set the two up as enemies, they both seem like decent and enjoyable titles so surely we all win... :S

 

[miked4o7]

You fall into the category of people who equate good graphics/physics/facial animation/etc... with a good game. How about the storyline? That's the most important element here and yet you don't make any mention to it whatsoever.

The storyline is the most important aspect of a first-person shooter? If you've been playing fps for years looking for great storylines, I pity you and the time you wasted.

 

[Sanguinus]

When alyx tells you we dont go to ravenholm anymore if you walk up to the ravenholm door she follows and tells you that ravenholm was a small mining town where the resistance set up people fleeing from city 17 to start new lives, i guess the combine found out about it or that it was taken over by the xen monsters that roam earths landscapes after the resonance cascade of hl1

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

Threads like this are absolutely ridiculous. Item: if you seriously think that Half-life 2 is a mediocre game, you're an idiot. Go drool over somebody else's shoes, please. There are only two reasons that somebody would try to claim this game isn't one of the best ever made: you have absolutely no experience with computer/video games, or you want attention.

Will you prepubescent, dimwitted wannabe trolls get off my forum? You don't really think this game missed the bar: you wanted this thread to go above three pages, and don't try to tell me different, because I can walk all over you in every way possible. Let's review some objective standards.

1) Graphics -- objectively, some of the best ever
2) Physics -- objectively, best ever
3) Facial animation -- objectively, best ever in video game
4) Characters -- objectively, some of the best ever, from the fluid animation to their gestures to the way they speak
5) Level design -- objectively, some of the best ever
6) Enemies -- objectively, some of the best pathfinding ever found in a game

So before you try to somehow tell me that HL2 didn't even find the bar, have second thoughts, freak. I'm betting money you didn't even play the entire game.

1-5, i can agree that it is a "pretty game", that has been beaten into us 'haters" constantly.
6, the enemies are cookie cutter AI, there is no distinction between a lower level metrocop to the elite gaurds, they act the same, they die the same. the helicopter, the gunship and the striders all fire the same damn weapon and all have their same repetitive AI.
Story? Aliens invade earth and we repel them, how original. The mysterious G-man in the background pulling strings,kinda like the smoking man from x-files?teleporter:star trek, the fly.blah..
Here's a new spin on all of this: forget graphics, physics and story. It's a game and a game is to be played. Eye candy and a good story is a plus but if it is a kick ass challenging game with good replay value, then it's worthy. How many of you supporters beat this game yet? of those how many are going to do it again? How long until this game gets put on the shelf out of boredom? the game was fun first time around due to the graphics and physics being brand new to you.Second time around you might explore a little more.After the G-man sightings and other easter eggs, then what? I have yet to hear a supporter say how challenging this game was.Seriously, did you die a lot or get stuck somewhere? I've read it was fun to explore, to interact, and visually pleasing but no one has said it was a challenge.i hardly think anyone who doesn't like this game is an "idiot". We are the ones who have beaten it.We are the ones bored with it.The slow and dimwitted are the ones who are often fond of "shiny" things, yet all the supports talk about the graphics..hhmm.And to answer the question, why do we come onto these forums and speak out against the game? Where else are you going to hear about the game? obviously the game websites are going to boost the game, thats why i bought my copy in the first place.Here, you can get both sides of the story. It's forums like this that prevented me from getting Doom3 and that seems to be the right decision. Someone actually thinks that steam was a good idea? You have a FPS that you have to activate and verify online to play? I might be wrong on this but i heard you can't even sell your copy because the CD key is associated with your steam account which is connected to your e-mail.WTF. Thats ok, i'm having anyone i know play my copy on my system for free.No piracy! No sale!

 

[Mr.Wotsit]

Steam is good for the industry in the long run. Without any systems like it, this industry is going to continue to be raped. The games-producers need to have more control than they have been allowed recently and, were things to start to go too far into their favour, regulatory bodies will be formed. But if you look beyond the four walls of your house, Steam will be good for all of us in the long run.
Oh, and you just admitted to intentional piracy for no real good reason...

I've been playing through all the different bits of the game again and again because I really enjoy it, frankly, it's the closest I'm going to be able to get to having any more of the game to play for a little while. Perhaps I'll go back to Rome: Total War soon though for a little while until the products of the SDK start to appear.

I really enjoyed the gameplay and found no faults in it that immediately come to mind. So, to me that suggests they did that well and then obviously moved on to the other aspects. You've said yourself that you theorise it having the replay value to play through three times; most games I buy I don't even bother t o complete...

It's not just about the abilities of this engine, it's about how well these abilities have been used and polished and so how they have made the standard that other games will have to meet higher.

Forums don't give both sides of the story, they give thousands of interpretations, many of which are by idiots. Factors like eloquence can also have a huge impact on whose opinions seem to be correct on the game as well when really, that gives an individual no more right to comment on the game than any other. Game-specific forums are completely unrepresentative of the games-playing audience and, as such, I wouldn't even consider making a purchasing decision based on the opinions of the large majority of people who frequent them.

 

[miked4o7]

1-5, i can agree that it is a "pretty game", that has been beaten into us 'haters" constantly.

2. Physics didn't just make the game look pretty. This was by far the greatest implementation of physics into a game. There's not even competition... and yes, it does affect gameplay in many ways, not just puzzles. Think about it. If you need me to list examples I will.

6, the enemies are cookie cutter AI, there is no distinction between a lower level metrocop to the elite gaurds, they act the same, they die the same.

More or less, however humanoid enemies aren't the only enemies and the overwatch act drastically different from the zombies, which act drastically different from the gunships, which act drastically different from the ant lions, etc etc. If you take into account all of the different kinds of enemies and their AI, hl2 enemy AI matches any other game out there in variety.

Story? Aliens invade earth and we repel them, how original. The mysterious G-man in the background pulling strings,kinda like the smoking man from x-files?teleporter:star trek, the fly.blah..

Pretty much every story borrows from somewhere. This shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone... it's the execution of the story that matters. Besides, it's still an fps... if you've played many of them then you would know that hl2 definitely has a very good plot for fps standards.

Here's a new spin on all of this: forget graphics, physics and story. It's a game and a game is to be played. Eye candy and a good story is a plus but if it is a kick ass challenging game with good replay value, then it's worthy.

Well those things do add to the immersion factor, which does affect the level of enjoyment of this kind of game at least for me.

How many of you supporters beat this game yet? of those how many are going to do it again? How long until this game gets put on the shelf out of boredom?

Beaten it twice. Once on normal, once on hard. Playing it again a third time and playing around with the slow-motion and the push-scale and whatnot and having a hell of a time doing it. Also been playing cs:source quite a bit and I enjoy it very much. In fact, I haven't played anything other than those two games since hl2 was released... and I have rome total war, ffxi, sims 2, ratchet & clank 3, jak 3, halo 2, metroid prime 2, metal gear solid 3, MegaTen: Nocturne, shadow hearts 2, mario power tennis, and onimusha 3 all waiting for me in my living room, uncompleted and begging for me to play with them. On top of that, I can honestly say that hl2 is the only game that I have ever beaten, then played again right away without taking a break to play something else inbetween.

Someone actually thinks that steam was a good idea?

Steam is a good idea from a developers side of things, and potentially for us too... the execution just hasn't been too smooth so far on steam.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

1) Graphics: Decent, at best. This doesn't bother me though, since decent is all I look for. For the sake of offering an explanation though, there was nothing new brought to the table.
2) Physics: The engine? Minor bug here and there, but overall Havoc seems to have made a nice engine. The implementation? Having to stack boxes in order to solve just about every puzzle isn't fun.
3) Facial animations: Good I suppose, but they certainly didn't make me want to care about the characters (Gabe made a comment regarding that at E3 2003).
4) Characters: Bland. At least in Half-Life 1 I could kill Barney to get some extra ammo.
5) Level design: Standard FPS levels. No better or worse than other games.
6) Enemies: Nothing special. All too often they'd let me walk right up to them so that I could get a point blank shot off.


1:yeah it's pretty
2:i remember videos showing more cause and effect type puzzle traps. i.e. Explode the barrel that cuts the line that releases the scaffold into the blocked door. didn't find much in the game, i agree with you.
3: agree
4:bland? you mean "sorry doctor gordon""have a medkit" and "i'm going with you doctor gordon" is boring?
5:agree
6:Agree, i don't see the AI everyone talks about.In this respect i would compare with halo. enemies dodge, hide, attack, melee...etc.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

the problem is, a lot of people that dont like half life two are the type that have come to expect a run and gun FPS - like the halo and doom series.

half life 2 is the thinking man's FPS.

that is, UNtiL StAlKER cOMES OUT!
if you wanna throw the word fanboy around, don't bring up Stalker
(or however you spell it)

oh yeah and out of curiosity, what are the "new" FPS conventions that this game will bring to the table? I keep hearing that they are there but i duno what they are. Sounds like an RPG with a camera stuck in the players face instead of over his shoulder. lets start the revolution baby.

Um, what was there to think about? pull lever and sqaush zombie? explode barrel?Mechwarrior 3 and 4(if that can fall into FPS) is a thinking FPS. Calculate weight of mech, armor and speed. determine damage and range of weapons...good stuff.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

Mods.

Two months of replay value for HALO? Heck, I'm still playing HL1's mods. What's that, 6 years of replay value?!

Seriously, if you don't like Half-Life 2, stop wasting your time posting your "I hate HL2, I want to cry and kill Gabe for giving me this s***!". I hate Doom 3, and I've never wasted my time on any Doom 3's forum and post my rant about how much I hate Doom 3. Because it's a GAME. And there are a lot more GAMES out there that you can buy and play. Get over it!

edit : that's not personally addressed to you, it's for everyone who can't get over this GAME

well, it's posts like mine and others that were posted by the unbiased that lead me to not BUY doom3. i heard DOOM 3 sucked and therefore did not buy it.I don't like getting ripped for $55 for a weeks worth of game. Mods? I have to wait for some fanboy to put out some version of the game to get more out of it?Pass.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

He did just say "months". That could mean 11 months for all you know.
I have this to say about this thread: don't give a damn about what others think of the game, in your opinion it's just their loss, right?

Good catch: I bought it in June and Still play online to this day.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

Halo 2 still sits in my cupboard ever since I got Nov 9 (it was that bad). I now have no ambition in beating that boring lifeless game, so no playability pretty much for me. The AI in hl2 is not lame; it’s just the same as the AI in halo 2 and all other games. I’m glad you all can’t sell your steam games, just more money that valve deserves and the contribution to future kick*** games by valve. Here’s to the dust that will gather on Halo 2!

So, you didn't beat halo 2? Theres no playability in halo 2 due to it being boring and lifeless but it has the same AI as HL2, which you like?...pass between the tokes...

 

[miked4o7]

The AI is comparable, but the action sequences are not. Hl2 by far has the best action sequences in any game I've ever played.

 

[XBORGZORZ]

Those 2 were the bigest trolls Ive seen in my entire life...
Many people said that they didnt like the game and I have no problem with them. Its quite natural.

But Odysseus and that other (cant remember his name, not that its worth remembering...) have not stated what they liked about the game if there IS anything they did like, what are the games they like, the better ones than HL2 that do verything right, why we should hate the game and are all of us fanboys and finaly
if we should eat at MCDONALDS or KFC because surely they know better.

I really wish to thank them for comparing this game with THEIR fantasy and declaring the winner. And while all that could be said in 1 or 2 posts as in:

"Hey, I heard about this Half Life 2 and you know I thought it would be great but you know what? I didnt like it. In my head it could have been a lot better like that other game that isnt out yet, you know the one with the good story..."

But NO! They had to post 100 times just to say to us the same thing over and over again.
Now if thats not trolling I dont know what it is...

 

[Mountain Man]

If anybody thinks Half-Life 2 "missed the bar", I can't possibly imagine what they were execting.

 

[JiMbOb]

How on earth could HL1 be better than HL2? I don't get it. In HL1, you're stuck in the same setting for pretty much the whole game, there are NO physics, NO facial expressions, characters talk like wooden puppets, NO characters you care about save for maybe a few barneys, and a terrible jump puzzle last area.

HL1 is a fantastic game, but there are so many revolutionary things in HL2 that comparing HL1 to HL2 is absolutely laughable.

To put it in as few words as possible, HL2 has gravgun, HL1 does not. Case closed.

Half life 1 was an incredible game at its time and stood out miles above others. It retains it greatness even today.

While half life 2 is an amazing game also but with so much other competiton it is easily clouded. It would of raised the bar a year ago today it maybe raises it 2cm. As for how popular it will be 2 years from now, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Soldcar4gasmony]

Steam is good for the industry in the long run. Without any systems like it, this industry is going to continue to be raped. The games-producers need to have more control than they have been allowed recently and, were things to start to go too far into their favour, regulatory bodies will be formed. But if you look beyond the four walls of your house, Steam will be good for all of us in the long run.
Oh, and you just admitted to intentional piracy for no real good reason....

By this i assume you mean me?Someone playing a game on my computer would be piracy?And your the one throwing the Idiot word around...lol.No sir, it is not piracy.thats like saying someone going onto my computer to check their e-mail is pirating my OS.

Forums don't give both sides of the story, they give thousands of interpretations, many of which are by idiots.

By both i mean pro's and con's. By these forums alone without buying the game i could assume that the graphics and physics are good,both sides agree with this. i've heard enough people say that DOOM3 has decent graphics but shitty gameplay, therefore i didn't get it.i'll wait until it's in the bargain bin.

Factors like eloquence can also have a huge impact on whose opinions seem to be correct on the game as well when really, that gives an individual no more right to comment on the game than any other. Game-specific forums are completely unrepresentative of the games-playing audience and, as such, I wouldn't even consider making a purchasing decision based on the opinions of the large majority of people who frequent them.

Who better to get the opinion of a game than the people who play it? You throw this "idiot" word around because someone doesn't see it your way. HL fans are gonna have a tilted opinion,noted. Some people are into graphics and some into physics, if that was my interest, i would take them into account.I,oddly enough, am into gameplay.I know it's a stretch, being a GAME and all, but if it has a sucky gameplay, it's no good to me. This game was simple, it lacked a challenge. Others like me might find this useful. Some, who look down on those who don't marvel at the trollying through the citadel in a cage scene, would probably find your comments useful.

 

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by Odysseus
You fall into the category of people who equate good graphics/physics/facial animation/etc... with a good game. How about the storyline? That's the most important element here and yet you don't make any mention to it whatsoever.

The storyline is the most important aspect of a first-person shooter? If you've been playing fps for years looking for great storylines, I pity you and the time you wasted.

The storyline is what made Half Life 1 the best game ever. So maybe a good storyline adds something to the game, don't you think?

 

[asdasd12345]

In my opinion, the Water Hazard level dragged on way way too long, and virtually made me to never want to play the game again. Anyone agree?

 

[XBORGZORZ]

The storyline is what made Half Life 1 the best game ever. So maybe a good storyline adds something to the game, don't you think?

Please tell me an other FPS you enjoyed that had great story besided HL1 the game with the best story EVAR!
Of course I cannot convince a troll like yourself that a story is subjective and some people may like it while others wont, Im just curious as to how BAD your taste is...

 

[Mr.Wotsit]

The storyline of Half Life really wasn't anything enormously impressive. It wasn't bad and it was done in a good manner.

Soldcar, the way you said you were encouraging people to play Half Life 2 on your PC rather than buying it seemed to suggest you were doing it out of malice towards Valve. It's really a similar practice although with bad intentions and so, perhaps worse...

Many of the people that have been talking on these forums from what I have seen are clearly idiots with tiny tiny brains smaller than an iPod. It's just a fact. But there's some guys around who have some great insight and enough intelligence to seem to get things right.
I'm not calling the people I'm arguing against idiots, hell - a lot of the people who agree with what I'm saying are idiots. I'm referring to all the people who wonder around without a thought to what they are doing and chucking out words like "fanboy" or "noob". Those words are meaningless, stupid and stereotypical. There's no point using them or being prejudiced against them.
Whereas there is point in telling idiots they're stupid.

Anyway, gameplay is an enormously subjective thing. I have tried as much as I can with all my analysis to only refer to the moves that Valve have made that can be assessed objectively in terms of whether or not they have raised the bar that other games will be judged by.

I truly enjoy and appreciate the mechanics of the gameplay and how well it has been crafted. Things like the constant beep of the soldiers letting you know they're still alive and the flatline when they die would again be examples of Valve's intelligent and exemplary design philosophy.
Maybe I should just write a list of all the things Valve have done to further this genre with this game that other titles will now have to live up to. Although that wouldn't be half as much fun now would it

I'm also going to say again that I really don't want this to turn into one of those typical forum threads when people start doing all that quoting rubbish and start getting arsey. We're all just people here and the people who act like they would if they were having a conversation in real life are the ones who are most valuable and decent in a forum. So let's all be them.
This is fun, first and foremost, I mean - what others think about a game is really meaningless to me but the concept of appreciating the work that has gone into something and that that work has furthered what will be expected in the future is something that is kind of important to have.

Odysseus, the storyline of Half Life 1 wasn't the only thing that "raised the bar" for the games that followed. If that's the most important thing to you in a game, then you were perhaps naive in thinking Half Life 2 would give it to you above all else. As it is, Half Life 2 has a world that it puts you into rather than just inserting you into a story and this is something to be encouraged so that the competition will learn and emulate.

If you want to know if you're likely to enjoy a game or not, the best thing you can really try and do is find people with similar tastes to yourself and see what they think of it. Now, thousands of anonymous individuals aren't really the kind of guys I would go to for advice on my own tastes... Tech problems, sure but whether a game is good (bearing in mind this is a very game specific forum) no.

 

[.ñµkËz]

HL2 PWNED the bar. Period.

 

[Mr.Wotsit]

Deus Ex was a good story actually Xborg. And there's plenty of examples out there.
It's good in a very different way to the Half Life story though. Which is good really because we get some nice variety. But either way, this is all a bit irrelevant really.
Writing a better story isn't what this discussion depends on. It depends on whether, as a whole, Half Life 2 raised the bar.

And it did

Actually, perhaps most interstingly, even if Half Life 2 is the failure that many view it as, because of all the attention it has received, it can't help but raise the bar; the programmers out there at the moment will be going through it and making a list of what they can do to beat it. So it will raise the bar.

And I think a lot of people are forgetting that this is a discussion about whether or not the game has "raised the bar" so let's stick to that yeah?