Hl2 Vs Fc

Fishlore said:
You mean not everyone is a loser who spends their whole lives following a video game. I guess I do live in a different world than you. A world where video games take up about an hour a week.

Did the game come out on it's original release date? What about the SDK? What about CS:CZ? They all hit their dates right?

LOL. douche bags.
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Did The SDK had a release date?

And this is not a CS:CZ forum... we are talking about Hl2 here... :imu:
 
Just seen the 2nd Unreal 3.0 demonstration, impressive to say the least. With this and Dark Sector we seem to be getting a taste of what next generation games will look like.
 
The main point I was trying to make, albeit very unelegantly, was that people's hopes are getting ridiculously high. Most, not all, but most of HL2's features have already been seen in some form or other somewhere else. Therefore if they don't go above and beyond, people will think "been there seen that."

I'm excited about HL2. It very well may be the best of the bunch. The other point I was trying to make is that nobody aside from the devs know for sure at this point. All these people claiming all these things about graphics and features and gameplay, and the truth is they dont' know any more or less than I do.

And as for FarCry being vaporware... How is software released and being used by the public vaporware? Also I didn't say HL2 *WAS* vaporware. I said "HL2 is practically vaporware." Meant to be toungue in cheek, but that's not easy to decipher on the web.


edited:
Oh and about deadline after deadline... Sorry about that. I was wrong. Valve is very good at getting things out on time. My bad. Sorry I offended people there.
 
Gundam Guru said:
Just seen the 2nd Unreal 3.0 demonstration, impressive to say the least. With this and Dark Sector we seem to be getting a taste of what next generation games will look like.
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Guru, you talking about the one posted on the previous pages or a different one? I just watched the one that was posted previously for the first time, and I must say, WOW. That brick wall and those baddies look phenom! Although I suppose this is what we should expect to come in the next few years, what with hardware advances and all. They are pulling it off in movies, why not games?
 
About an hour a week? Why then, Fishlore, do you even bother to log on and discuss something you engage in so infrequently in an online forum?

As for HL2, if it isn't a supremely good game when it comes out, I'm gonna do my best to mod the engine into one... ;).
 
Fishlore said:
The main point I was trying to make, albeit very unelegantly, was that people's hopes are getting ridiculously high. Most, not all, but most of HL2's features have already been seen in some form or other somewhere else.
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You could have said that same thing about the original Half-Life when it was released. It wasn't the technology that made it a great game, it was how the technology was used. When I look at Far Cry, the only thing I can think is, "Imagine what Valve can do with this technology!"
 
The only reason I come here once in a while is because I have an hour to kill around lunch time. Always hoping to see new info about developement. Needless to say there never is, but I like to read what people have to say regardless. Mostly I linger in the shadows wondering if this game will ever be released.

I guess the only reason I got into this conversation is because I'm getting tired of people saying a game they've never played is better in all ways than one that is out and available and fun to play.

I support HL2, I'm not out to trash it. I agree with the following statement because FC's story was lacking. "When I look at Far Cry, the only thing I can think is, "Imagine what Valve can do with this technology!"" Although my faith in Valve is dwindling.
 
FarCry atm....better map editor, better physics(imo overuns the havoc engine, but tha tmight be me)...mor euspport for mod(way more)....all in all a better game for mods

HL2 might be good...in half a year...a half year im not willing to wait, to make my mod tbh
 
I liked FC, but AI? How many times did I want to just gun down Val? I mean, I wanted to shoot her, throw her off a cliff, and then send down a few boulders on her head. The chica had the brains of a 1 year old.

The enemy AI had its bright moments, but it also had it's really, really bad moments.
 
Doc Brass said:
Guru, you talking about the one posted on the previous pages or a different one? I just watched the one that was posted previously for the first time, and I must say, WOW. That brick wall and those baddies look phenom! Although I suppose this is what we should expect to come in the next few years, what with hardware advances and all. They are pulling it off in movies, why not games?
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Yeah,that one
 
Ahnteis said:
The enemy AI had its bright moments, but it also had it's really, really bad moments.
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That's one of my biggest complaints about the game.
 
i ain't delved into the source of either very much. I woud think selecting your engine would be based on wht kind of mod you wanted to make and the attributes to each one.
to kaf 11. trust me, the demo is nothing compared to the full game of farcry..

I just look at editors and engines as tools to achieve an end. It's like the old maya/max argument, but either way, they are all tools for people to use.
being said alot of whats gonna be created in a mod is based on its creators. bf had no choppr code, but dc found a way around that.
just some ?'s someone might know. Which engine supports the most polygons on screen at one time.
2. Does anybody know if there are any export tools for maya 4.5, or 4.2 for half life, and if so could you please post a link :) (/me wonders why valve doesn't have tools past max and maya version 3)
 
polyguns said:
just some ?'s someone might know. Which engine supports the most polygons on screen at one time.
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X-Ray from S.T.A.L.K.E.R. altough we don't know the possible polycounts of HL2, I doubt they're higher than in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (3M tri's / frame)
 
Where can I get this unreal3 preview? Link on prev page = forbidden for me.
 
The nildram one is the only mirror I know of. I could e-mail it to you but it's 12Mb.
 
crabcakes66 said:
:LOL:

The AI in farcry sucks...... its like a slightly improved hl1......
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Played it on "easy", uhm?
Set it to "Veteran and repeat your statement. FC is the FIRST game where NPCs actually SEARCH for you, follow your noise, do guess shooting (on higher difficulty), flush you out, use grenades effictively and - most important - the AI doesn't cheat in doing so. It's always you who blows the scene when you missed that one sniper. I felt very much immersed by that and actually I am replaying FC on Veteran and hell, this rocks.

Coming back to gfxs:
If source can display paramount looks like FC that evens the score for me. But bumb-mapping, normal mapping, shading, that's a new standard now brought to us by FC before doom3 and hl2. Nevertheless, I agree, gameplay will make the difference and HL2 will be a unique and absolutely incomparable experience I am sure.

bb flux
 
[sl@yer] said:
It's the game that matters. Both FC and HL2 have very good graphics, does it matter which is better? I've played Far Cry and I didn't really think it was amazing gameplay...good yes, but not WOW FANTASTIC. But that's just my opinion. Graphics wise, both games have their strengths.
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farcry sucked.. i got it right here.... the displacement from grenades sucks... the physics suck.... the so called eazy pleezy"sandbox" shit is a load of crap... i do agree the watter is probly the only good thing in farcry... the story is the same as any sci-fi evil experamentation island.. look at the models they dont have 5 fingers... now thats crap... all the plants are basicly made from 2D plates.... now i have to take a shit brb hl2 pwns
 
damn trinity. thats an example of a hater. you get that ALOT from hl fanatics.

someone start a poll
 
TrinityXero said:
farcry sucked.. i got it right here.... the displacement from grenades sucks... the physics suck.... the so called eazy pleezy"sandbox" shit is a load of crap... i do agree the watter is probly the only good thing in farcry... the story is the same as any sci-fi evil experamentation island.. look at the models they dont have 5 fingers... now thats crap... all the plants are basicly made from 2D plates.... now i have to take a shit brb hl2 pwns
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Hehe

The physics, are well....what you can expect from them...just like havoc....physical...there is not a big difference from the FarCry physics to the Hl2 physics...they're both set to about the same set of rules...

I doubt you have used the sandbox editor for more than 2 minutes...cause it the most brillian "peice of crap" i have ever worked with, and i have worked with worldcraft/hammer and unreal ed and numerous other mapmaking tools...

The models hav ebeen optimized for multiplayer(conserning the fingers)

All plants atm, in all games...talking HL2 or FarCry are made from "2dplates" or more correctly, flat polygons.. using alpha maps...HL2 will feature the excact same thing.
 
Please, for the sake of our sanity, let us at least *hope* there will be better games than FarCry to come....
 
fluX said:
Played it on "easy", uhm?
Set it to "Veteran and repeat your statement. FC is the FIRST game where NPCs actually SEARCH for you, follow your noise, do guess shooting (on higher difficulty), flush you out, use grenades effictively and - most important - the AI doesn't cheat in doing so. It's always you who blows the scene when you missed that one sniper. I felt very much immersed by that and actually I am replaying FC on Veteran and hell, this rocks.
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uh....played and beat on every setting....

This game is nothing special.
 
crabcakes66 said:
uh....played and beat on every setting....

This game is nothing special.
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Why do I doubt you beat the game 5 times, once on each difficulty? :|
 
After playing a seeing the physics in Far Cry and watching all the HL2 videos, the physics in HL2 own Far Cry. thats pretty much the only thing i can judge right now because no one has played the game or seen a level with graphics up full
 
Varsity said:
The nildram one is the only mirror I know of. I could e-mail it to you but it's 12Mb.
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You good with FTP? If so, I can PM you an account to upload it to.
 
Sparta said:
After playing a seeing the physics in Far Cry and watching all the HL2 videos, the physics in HL2 own Far Cry. thats pretty much the only thing i can judge right now because no one has played the game or seen a level with graphics up full
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Well, I woulnd't go so far as to say they 'own' FC, I do agree with the thrust of your argument.

I have beaten FC, and played a bit of the HL2 beta. In FC, there are some awesome moments with the physics (like when you can make rope bridges collapse), but for the most part, the physics still seem to be more of a 'wow' factor.

In the little time I played HL2 beta, the physics seemed more advanced, but more importantly, integrated so seemlessly into the environment, that one almost forgot that games used not to have physics engine. Hard to put into words, but the HL2 physics just seem to 'flow' better with the gameplay.
 
fluX said:
Coming back to gfxs:
If source can display paramount looks like FC that evens the score for me. But bumb-mapping, normal mapping, shading, that's a new standard now brought to us by FC before doom3 and hl2. Nevertheless, I agree, gameplay will make the difference and HL2 will be a unique and absolutely incomparable experience I am sure.

bb flux
Click to expand...

FC does not have normal mapping, it has plain old dot3 bump-mapping, a DirectX 8 technology.

I wouldn't even go as far as calling Far Cry a "next-gen" title. It's a VERY pretty end-of-this-generation title.

I don't want to qualify that with bullet points, it's just that when i play it, i don't feel like i'm playing the next step in FPSs. I feel like i'm playing just another FPS, except at club med.
 
not sure if this had been said , but i read in the responses from valve that they will update Source with ps 3.0 later on , so i guess it will be receiving ongoing updates to improve the image and graphic capabillities

yer so thats cool :)!
 
well it's been pointed out that HL2 is head of the technology people are using right now, so they shall probably be able to keep updating the engine for ages now that they have this core set up.
 
Spiffae said:
FC does not have normal mapping, it has plain old dot3 bump-mapping, a DirectX 8 technology.

I wouldn't even go as far as calling Far Cry a "next-gen" title. It's a VERY pretty end-of-this-generation title.

I don't want to qualify that with bullet points, it's just that when i play it, i don't feel like i'm playing the next step in FPSs. I feel like i'm playing just another FPS, except at club med.
Click to expand...

It has normal mapping, check out

http://www.crytek.com/polybump/index.php?sx=polybump#

The name's different (polybump), but it's very much the same like the normal mapping demo expained for HL2. You take a high-poly object, convert it into a low-poly objet + normal maps. Now changing the lighting on the surfaces is then calculated realistically and VEEEERY fast. This (and LOD) is what gives FC the incredible speed on paramount views and the "rusty" inside of the carrier. Take the flashlight and check it out on one of those rusty walls....

"Next" Gen is always a useless attribute for something evoloving so seemlessly like gfx engines if you ask me....

bb flux

PS: If you beat it on all 5 settings I eat my hat, one for each time you didn't :) If you played it on veteran, e.g., you would have noticed that the AI starts to fire on you according to noise you generated and positions you gave away, at least that's what happened to me all the time :)

And don't tell me HL1 did that - the HL1 AI is cheating to the max, always knowing where you are. I hope HL2 will be more like FC in this respect.
 
OT: BTW in which time zone (and where) is the forum's server located ?

bb flux
 
GMT I believe.

Anyway, there is a difference between normal maps and bumpmaps. I don't know enough to tell you what the difference is, or which one 'polybump' is (grr, why do they have to make up stupid names instead of using the common term?).
 
Polybump looks like (from in-game experience and their example screenshots on that site) an improved form of bump mapping with slightly different lighting. Normal mapping is still is much more accurate and realistic-looking because it contains normal vector data (the angle the pixel is facing) for each pixel in addition to height (the only data stored in a bump map). In a bump mapping system it takes extra time to calculate the angle the pixel is facing (for lighting purposes) and the normal vector data that it can extract from a plain bump map is much less precise.

The biggest problem with both systems (moreso with normal maps because there are three channels of data per pixel) is the low ratio of compression that can be achieved with the bump/normal maps without corrupting the data. So, you have to sacrifice texture size and/or polycount in order to have extensive use of bump/normal maps.

I'm very impresssed with how realistic the fake-displacement brick wall in the UE3 video looked. That was done with normal maps and an incredible lighting algorithm that lights the surface and leaves shadows as if it were actually displaced. *drool*
 
polybump i think...this is a big I think ....means that they use lod models and like mix them all together to make a single model....a ignore me i don't know enough.

However...
fluX said:
HL1 AI is cheating to the max, always knowing where you are. I hope HL2 will be more like FC in this respect.
Click to expand...

You do realise that FC came out around now...HL is hmmm....6 years old? I heard this crazy rumour about the industry improving since then and for some reason it's meant the AI in a games has actually got better!. I feel a tingling in my spine that says HL2 ai is going to surpass FC not just 'be like it'
 
Yeah, I was thinking the difference had to do with the angle of the pixel but that's about all I knew and I didn't want to risk looking like a moron. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. And yeah, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that simulated displacement wall. The parallax effect it gets is unbelieveable.
 
Rupertvdb said:
polybump i think...this is a big I think ....means that they use lod models and like mix them all together to make a single model....a ignore me i don't know enough.

However...

You do realise that FC came out around now...HL is hmmm....6 years old? I heard this crazy rumour about the industry improving since then and for some reason it's meant the AI in a games has actually got better!. I feel a tingling in my spine that says HL2 ai is going to surpass FC not just 'be like it'
Click to expand...

SURE :cheese: It was meant for that kiddie, talking like there was only
one engine and one opinion.

AI has evolved a lot. When it comes to movement, FC is already quite sophisticated, HL2 should be better on simulating persons as a whole (facial reactions, emotional behaviour, non-scripted immersion asf.).

flux
 
OCybrManO said:
Polybump looks like (from in-game experience and their example screenshots on that site) an improved form of bump mapping with slightly different lighting. Normal mapping is still is much more accurate and realistic-looking because it contains normal vector data (the angle the pixel is facing) for each pixel in addition to height (the only data stored in a bump map). In a bump mapping system it takes extra time to calculate the angle the pixel is facing (for lighting purposes) and the normal vector data that it can extract from a plain bump map is much less precise.

The biggest problem with both systems (moreso with normal maps because there are three channels of data per pixel) is the low ratio of compression that can be achieved with the bump/normal maps without corrupting the data. So, you have to sacrifice texture size and/or polycount in order to have extensive use of bump/normal maps.

I'm very impresssed with how realistic the fake-displacement brick wall in the UE3 video looked. That was done with normal maps and an incredible lighting algorithm that lights the surface and leaves shadows as if it were actually displaced. *drool*
Click to expand...

Quote from Crytek's statement:

"Includes additional features such as support for merging an additional bump map onto a normal map and creating "accessibility" maps to improve the visual quality of a model."

Maybe they use the term normal mapping in a different sense, but taking that
literally would mean that they use that kind of modelling tech. And to be frank, it is a quite obvious way to develop your gfx engine of choice. And concerning your remark on data amount: When you reduce the numebr of polygons by a factor of 1000 and end up with a factor of 3 on surface data - hey, should we care?! ;)

flux
 
I can't remember who said Far Cry uses Direct X 8 style bump-mapping (dot3). But if you've seen the screenshots of the new Nvidia card that uses PS 3.0, it mentions that Far Cry DOES use PS 3.0 and im pretty sure anything 2.0 or above is DirectX 9.

And when it comes to HL2's AI vs Far Cry's.....think about this, if Far Cry's AI matches that of Half-Life's AI 6 years later then common logic says that the AI in HL2 will be more advanced then Far Cry's, therefore better.
 
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