HOLY ****ING SHIT ROK Frigate blows up and sinks, North Korean torpedos suspected

[Bob_Marley]

Sounds like a reason to go to war, not suspend trade. Oh well, I have a feeling North Korea would have won anyways. Not to mention that would have made a big mess in the world.

Unlike the United States, the Republic of Korea cannot strike its enemies with invulnerability from retaliation.

Additionally, the Norks threatend all out war in response to any more sanctions.

However, North Korea strongly denied responsibility for the attack, calling the investigation a "fabrication orchestrated by a group of traitors". It said it would "promptly" react to any retaliation and further sanctions with "various forms of tough measures including an all-out war". In recent weeks, North Korea has begun massing more troops on the border with the South.

Telegraph linky

But I very much doubt it will come to that. Even Kim isn't mad enough to initiate a war, at least not without explicit Chinese support, which current noises from Beijing suggest he very definetly doesn't have. While they havent condemned the attack, they have remained neutral rather than directly supporting Pyongyang.

Or at least I hope he's not that mad.

 

[Azner]

Unlike the United States, the Republic of Korea cannot strike its enemies with invulnerability from retaliation.

Additionally, the Norks threatend all out war in response to any more sanctions.



Telegraph linky

But I very much doubt it will come to that. Even Kim isn't mad enough to initiate a war, at least not without explicit Chinese support, which current noises from Beijing suggest he very definetly doesn't have. While they havent condemned the attack, they have remained neutral rather than directly supporting Pyongyang.

Or at least I hope he's not that mad.

China doesn't want to openly condemn DPRK nor do they want to apply sanctions it seems, probably due to the fact that they lose some form of investment.

 

[Some_God]

Oh wow, haven't seen Some_god post in a while, you know, you may have to change your sig, we're comrades now.

I don't know, the hippy/communist/gay gene you possess is hard to shake off.

 

[<RJMC>]

China doesn't want to openly condemn DPRK nor do they want to apply sanctions it seems, probably due to the fact that they lose some form of investment.

its cuz north korea is theyr buddie

china supported north korea during the korean war,after the war ended it was still a supporter,but whit the time it went more neutral probably cuz it didnt seem any strategic value other that keep a ally(south korea,japan) whitout direct contact of its borders
also bigger support will scare the whole invesment that companies have on them so china is just trying to keep things easy like pulling the chain of the dog

china: shh quiet kim

 

[Solaris]

I don't know, I think Kim probably is crazie enough to start an all our war any sane man knows he would lose.

I really don't think China would intervene on NK's side either, the whole world trade system would go to shit and that's supposing it didn't go nuclear.

The democracies of this world need to form some kind of UN like organisation rather like Nato but without it's history or American dominance. An organisation like this would be required to stand up to the re-emerging threat on democracy from countries like NK, China and Russia. This would also help bring countries like France and Venezuala back into the democratic military umbrella.

 

[Azner]

its cuz north korea is theyr buddie

china supported north korea during the korean war,after the war ended it was still a supporter,but whit the time it went more neutral probably cuz it didnt seem any strategic value other that keep a ally(south korea,japan) whitout direct contact of its borders
also bigger support will scare the whole invesment that companies have on them so china is just trying to keep things easy like pulling the chain of the dog

china: shh quiet kim

China really couldn't be arsed about NK now. With the current economy build, China has better things to do than back NK up for being a jerk.

Truman Doctrine lol

 

[63]

http://gizmodo.com/5546091/this-is-how-you-lift-a-sunk-war-ship-off-the-sea

 

[Bob_Marley]

The democracies of this world need to form some kind of UN like organisation rather like Nato but without it's history or American dominance. An organisation like this would be required to stand up to the re-emerging threat on democracy from countries like NK, China and Russia. This would also help bring countries like France and Venezuala back into the democratic military umbrella.

No. No it doesn't.

Defending democracy around the world is all well and good until your troops actually start dying, then everyone wonders why Jonny had to go and die in some far flung hell-hole.

Also, France is a NATO member and Sarkozy brought them back to (almost) full NATO command integration begining last year.

Additionally, not having the US in such an organisation would be its doom. The other democracies of this world have enjoyed protection under the US for so long they don't have a credible military capability on the world stage (After the US the countries with the best force projection capabilities are the UK and France. And the UK is still dependent on the US in this area). The populations of other countries will not accept the increase defence spending required to attain such a capability. Afterall, getting defence on the cheap ment they were able to spend on welfare and such. Which is one of the reasons the US were so annoyed with Europe toward the end of the Cold War - western Europe has a land area similar in size to the US and had higher combined GDP than the USSR, but continued to lean on the US to defend it.

Theres also the question of common interest - NATO members are in close proximity of each other and most are EU members - they actually care what happens over the border, which is why NATO illegally invaded Serbia in 1999 to prevent any more Albanians claiming refugee status in Italy, once they're in Italy they're in the EU and theres no stopping them. Now there are such areas of interest, such as the Persian Gulf (where the states of Europe, Japan and India have a very strong interest in keeping it open and are worried about not only the states in the immediate region but also the suspected "String of Pearls" that may be being established by the PRC). In other areas, they really wouldn't care.

Take Georgia, for example. A democratic state and one of NATO's closest allies. It is, however, very far away. Which meant that when Russia attacked it for trying to destroy the seperatists in South Ossetia (and in the process killing the Russian peacekeepers stationed there) NATO and the US sent a strongly worded letter and helped a portion of the Georgian army back to Georgia from Iraq and nothing else. Most people in most countries around the world don't care what system of government a country has, which means spending blood and treasure to uphold democratic ideals around the world is deeply unpopular in democratic countries.

Theres also the issue of liking ones allies - not everyone likes Venezuela, lest of all two of the key players in any proposed US excluding alliance of democratic states, the UK and France. The UK doesn't like it because it supports the Argentinan claim to the Falklands, which means France doesn't like it because if Argentina were to gain control some of its overseas possessions would come into question. Additonally, the whole of the EU is legally required to support such a position on overseas possessions. Theres also the issue of its close relations with Russia, Cuba, Iran, Zimbabwe and the PRC. Additionally, Chavez's policy of South American regionalism is worrying to many, as is his willingness to sack competent staff and replace them with incompetent, but politically loyal, staff in the oil industry.

While I believe that we can and we should have a more democratic world, military adventureism is not the way to achieve this. Sucessful democratisation is a long, gradual process. Rapid, revolutionary democratisation typically leads to violence and authoritarianism. It is far better to gradually transition from authortiarianism to democracy, creating a democratic cultre, an effective bureocracy and educated, politically skilled population. Otherwise one ends up with the stiuation in so many developing countries.

Additionally, threats of regieme change and invasion tend to make authoritarian regiemes even worse as they are "defending the nation from outside agression". Take Myanmar for example. the Current government so firmly believes that the west has got it in for them that when French, British and American warships were used to deliver aid following Cyclone Nargis instead of sending the army to assist in the affected regions they were deployed to defensive positions to prepare for the "iminent invasion". Additonally, these ships were not allowed to deliver thier aid for the same reason, even after they offered to allow Tatmadaw military personell to oversee the operation on land, the ships and have one observer on every helicopter flight. Fear of a western invasion has stifled the democratic movement in Myanmar, made the government even more repressive and taken even more money away from government services. Currently more than 1/3 of the Myanmar budget is spent on defence. Now, do you think that your proposed alliance is going to help bring about democracy in garrison states like Myanmar?

Finally, by having a "UN like organisation" you end up with an organisation that is, well, like the UN. Crippled by disagreements between member states and unable to actually do its job because action is hamstrung by national interest.

In actual news about the incident:

The US have announced a joint naval excercise with the RoK Navy in the Yellow Sea and has reaffirmed its commitment to close coordination with the RoK on military matters to "ensure rediness and prevent future agression"

source

Also of note, though not strictly related, the 49th Fighter Wing is deploying two dozen F-22As to bases in Japan and Guam, within easy striking distance of the Korean peninsular.

"This is a tremendous milestone for the 49th Fighter Wing and members of Team Holloman. This will mark the first time F-22s from Holloman have deployed to the Western Pacific to train in a forward location, while maintaining a credible deterrent posture and presence in the region," said Col. David Sullivan, 49th Fighter Wing vice commander.

source

Finally, as a result of the rising tensions in the region, Japan has agreed to continue to allow the presence of the US Marine base on Okinawa.

Japan's prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama, said today that rising tensions in the Korean peninsula were behind his decision to keep a controversial US marine base on Okinawa, reneging on an election pledge to move it off the island.

Hatoyama said he would honour a 2006 agreement with the US to move Futenma base from its current location in an overcrowded city to an offshore site in a less populated part of Okinawa, despite strong local opposition.

After six months of searching for a new site in other parts of Japan, Hatoyama conceded that the Korean crisis, sparked by the March sinking of a South Korean naval vessel blamed on a North Korean torpedo, had underlined the importance of the US military presence.

"I decided that it is of utmost importance that we place the Japan-US relationship on a solid footing of mutual trust, considering the situation on the Korean peninsula and in Asia," he said.

"I apologise from the bottom of my heart for the confusion I have caused the people of Okinawa."

The US had refused to budge from its insistence that the base, home to 2,000 marines, should stay on Okinawa, which it regards as the best location for troops who could be sent to intervene in a conflict on the Korean peninsula or between China and Taiwan.

source

 

[15357]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc8XZIq2B6U

 

[unozero]

go **** em up numbers!

 

[CR0M]

holy wtf

poor lackey riff-raff? exqueeze me??

 

[Azner]

I heard the SK citizen's don't really want a confrontation, is that true Numbers?

 

[15357]

I heard the SK citizen's don't really want a confrontation, is that true Numbers?

50% do, 50% don't.

As I've said, cowards thrive on prosperity and peace.

 

[bbson john]

TIME TO REUNITE KOREA!

 

[VirusType2]

WASHINGTON — North Korea's decision to sever ties with South Korea over Seoul's charges it torpedoed one of its warships is an "odd" move contrary to Pyongyang's self-interest, a US official said Tuesday.

"I can't imagine a step that is less in the long-term interest of the North Korean people than cutting off further ties with South Korea," State Department spokesman Philip Crowley told reporters when asked to comment on the move by the North.

"I think it's odd," he added.

"South Korea is one of the most dynamic economies in the world ... North Korea is unable to care for its citizens. It's unable to feed its people," he said.

"Is it possible for North Korea to be more isolated than it actually is?" the official said. "North Korea is working assertively against its own self-interest."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gT_BRCB7MYkGFRkTLYyrichj7JxA

Sounds childish. "No supper for me tonight? Fine, I'm never eating again!"

 

[Jintor]

You know what though? NK is going to tell their own citizens that it's the West's/SK's fault that they're severing ties. As per usual.

50% do, 50% don't.

As I've said, cowards thrive on prosperity and peace.

I hate to ask this Numbers but how close to the border do you live?

 

[kineaesth]

I hate to ask this Numbers but how close to the border do you live?

Numbers' location

Numbers' IP location (thus CLEARLY contaminated)

 

[15357]

I moved a while ago for university; the second is more accurate, but it should be a couple of milimeters to the west and the north.

 

[CptStern]

you should totally rush the border with a bayonet shouting "BANZAI" ..or samsung or something

 

[Escaep]

you should totally rush the border with a bayonet shouting "BANZAI" ..or samsung or something

"HYUNDAIIIIIIIIIIIII"

 

[Warped]

Numbers we have an extra room in the house here if you want to get out alive before the nukes drop!

 

[CptStern]

"HYUNDAIIIIIIIIIIIII"

HYYYYUUUUNNNDAIIIIIIII..pantpantpant..IIIIIIIIIII..pantpantpant..IIIIIIIIIIIII oh god....IIIIIIII....

 

[VirusType2]

You should just put a bunch of women behind the wheel and drive into NK to destroy infrastructure and supply routes.

"A South Korean woman who earned a driver's license after 960 tries is ready to buy a car and get behind the wheel.

"Yonhap news agency reported Thursday that 69-year-old Cha Sa-soon passed the driving part of the test last month on her 10th try. South Korea requires a written test first, and Cha took it nearly daily since April 2005 before passing last year."