Homosexuals Given The Boot From Military

el Chi said:
I won't lie; I've had one or two drinks. So, whilst my sentiments will remain the same as they were before, my fuse is shorter than usual. Any curteousness may be discarded, I'm afraid.

So I'll start as I mean to go on: You're a f*cking moron.
And yes, that did necessitate an underline. And yes, I'm restraining myself from using stronger language, although f*ck knows why.
Honest to God, how can you possibly agree with gh0st's extraordinarily skewed ideas on sexual urges in life-or-death situations?

Maybe it's just me, although I sincerely doubt it, but if I was in a wartime situation with bullets zipping past my head and explosions ringing in my ears, sex is going to be the last thing on my mind.
Put me in a shootout in Iraq in a foxhole exchanging fire with my only comrade as Elisha Cuthbert, but I'm really not going to be there next to her going "So baby, did the fall from Heaven hurt?"
No, I - and I must stress, this is only a personal preference - am going to be thinking "She's been trained to shoot and look out for comrades, so hopefully I, if not we, will live to see another day."
Furthermore, I will most certainly not be thinking "Hmmm, she's hot. Forget the fact that I may be killed, or even worse caught and tortured in incredibly inhumane ways, I'm going to forcibly engage in intercourse with her instead of preserving my own well-being, let alone existence."

Although, as I say, perhaps this is just me. I dunno.
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Dude, get the hell of my back. I didnt say anything on the matter one way or another. You misinterpreted him and I attempted to show his true feelings on the matter as I read them. It is incredible the shit you people get away with because you're 'in' with the mods. Why should I reply, or even signify, people who constantly refer to others as "fu*king morons"? It seems that it has become the fashionable thing to do on the left.
 
**** the homo's I wouldnt want to share a shower room with a fag.
 
gh0st said:
Put a man and a woman in a foxhole and what would you expect to happen?
But two gay guys in a foxhole and what would you expect to happen? No reason to think it would be any different.
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Yes, because when bullets are whizzing past my head and my fellow soldiers body parts are flying around me, the first thing I think is "Damn I need to get laid..."
 
What the heck is up with the homophobes. I could only seriosuly believe this bullshit if you where actually raped in some dark alley by a bunch of guys in drag.

Anywhoo I doubt that's happened to anyone here so what's the problem?
 
el Chi: keep it civil, please.
 
AzzMan said:
Yes, because when bullets are whizzing past my head and my fellow soldiers body parts are flying around me, the first thing I think is "Damn I need to get laid..."
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you're missing the point. it doesn't have to be a foxhole, it doesn't have to be the trenches. a HUGE portion of our army is support personnel, cooks, technicians, etc.
1) Homosexual men are six times more likely to have attempted suicide than heterosexual men.

2) Studies indicate that between 25 and 33% of homosexual men and women are alcoholics (the national average is 7%).

3) Statistics give evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men.

The Kinsey study cited above revealed that 43% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated that they had had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners.

4) The same Kinsey study revealed that homosexual men have to a great extent separated sexuality from relationship. The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their sexual partners were strangers.
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too big of a liability for the conditions that the army is in.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Dude, get the hell of my back. I didnt say anything on the matter one way or another. You misinterpreted him and I attempted to show his true feelings on the matter as I read them. It is incredible the shit you people get away with because you're 'in' with the mods. Why should I reply, or even signify, people who constantly refer to others as "fu*king morons"? It seems that it has become the fashionable thing to do on the left.
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It's morning now and I'm feeling a tad worse for wear, and re-reading that post I can only apologise. The tone I took with you really wasn't fair, so I'm really sorry.
It pisses me off when people resort to bitchy insults as if that'd enhance any point they had to make, valid or not, and so I'm pretty bloody stupid for having stooped to that level too.
Sorry seinfeld.
 
el Chi said:
It pisses me off when people resort to bitchy insults as if that'd enhance any point they had to make
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I think you owe me an apology too asshole. Though I do love being called a dickhead and an ignorant ****, but whatever works when logic fails.
 
gh0st said:
I think you owe me an apology too asshole. Though I do love being called a dickhead and an ignorant ****, but whatever works when logic fails.
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Fair play. The way I put things wasn't on so in that respect I am sorry.


For the record, I stand by my points, if not the way I put my posts. Just a subject that particularly makes my blood boil
 
Kyo said:
Meanwhile one third of studies are crap.
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Oh yeah, didn't you hear about that study that came to conclusion that 75% of statistics are made up on the spot? No, seriously, I can probably find a damning study about people who don't specify a sexuality. Does that mean the army should just do away with people completely?

http://healthyamericans.org/reports/obesity/

65% of American adults are obese? Well, I guess no adult is fit to serve in the military. Far too much risk involved for the military.
 
gh0st said:
you're missing the point. it doesn't have to be a foxhole, it doesn't have to be the trenches. a HUGE portion of our army is support personnel, cooks, technicians, etc.

too big of a liability for the conditions that the army is in.
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get used to it:

2.8% of all military are gay, that's 65,000 gay men and women. Like it or not they're already there ...and there's nothing that you can do about it


oh and el Chi's comment's were appropriate: you're an asshole and a jackass ..your ban should have been permanent IMHO
 
CptStern said:
get used to it:

2.8% of all military are gay, that's 65,000 gay men and women. Like it or not they're already there ...and there's nothing that you can do about it
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lol you really are a dolt aren't you. i don't care that gay people are in the military. I'm saying its bad for everyone when they are openly gay.
oh and el Chi's comment's were appropriate: you're an asshole and a jackass ..your ban should have been permanent IMHO
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yeah well you don't make the decisions... and there's nothing that you can do about it
 
I'm saying its bad for everyone when they are openly gay.
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The only ones I can see it being bad to are homophobes like yourself. Why should people have to hide their sexual nature? Whom does it profit?
 
gh0st said:
yeah well you don't make the decisions... and there's nothing that you can do about it
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What an amazing argument.
 
Absinthe said:
What an amazing argument.
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actually, that was in reply to cptstern saying i should be permanently banned.

sadly though, thats basically his argument
cptstern said:
2.8% of all military are gay, that's 65,000 gay men and women. Like it or not they're already there ...and there's nothing that you can do about it
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What were you saying Absinthe?
The_Monkey said:
The only ones I can see it being bad to are homophobes like yourself. Why should people have to hide their sexual nature? Whom does it profit?
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Yeah "homophobes" (because I clearly hate homosexuals) like myself, make up 97.2 percent of the army.
 
I think it's great homosexuals want to defend their country. As long as they don't go around distracting others during training or the job then I have no problem with it. That is why the military needs to keep the sexes seperate and homosexuals quiet about their preference. They do this so they don't get distracted, start flirting and let it get in the way. I am not talking about when bullets are flying past their head, or anything like that. I am talking about boot camp, training, field excersizes(yes, where they sleep in a tent together). Anything like that. I don't care if it's females and males mixing or homosexuals, both will cause a distraction and that can lead to serious issues.
 
Hey gh0st, if you want to root out homosexuality in the military, go right ahead.

And if you have the paranoid notion that every gay guy is trying to ream you... well, yeah. I think that does constitute some kind of homophobia.
 
gh0st said:
The dont-ask-dont-tell policy is perfect. I dont want to be in the trenches with someone who may or may not want to punch my donut. The reality is that men and women are separated for a reason, and a very good reason. So they dont ****. It would be the same way in any other workplace if you were around your coworkers 24/7 in the same conditions as the military.
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punch ur donut...never heard that before. lol. I personally am not gay (not that there's anything wrong with that, people's personal sexual preferences are their own business! - Seinfeld). I'm not tryin to provoke a flame war or anything but I think gay men should be able to join the military. On that note, are lesbians allowed to join the military? If they are that's kinda...sexist since us guys dig 2 chicks...lol. But I doubt some guy in a trench during a firefight is gonna try to "punch someone's donut". I'd punch him and say "dude...u joined to fight, not to "punch donuts!"
 
@gh0st: how is being openly gay any worse than non-openly gay?
 
Vigilante said:
Yeah, the USA is the only country with problems.
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...

Huh?

I'm sorry for not hunting down negative articles regarding other countries, but that was never my job to begin with. The article I posted was a link I clicked from another site I frequent. I am not going out of my way to find these things. They come to me, not the other way around.

If you take issue with the fact that the information that scrolls across my screen largely regards the USA, then feel free to send me something about Canada or Nigeria or Britain or Lichtenstein or whatever.
 
I was being sarcastic...I would say feciceious, but alas, I do not know how to spell it.
 
facetious. erm. i think.

and i dont care if soldiers are gay, thats their own business. aslong as they do their job, i dont give a shit. infact, if a gay guy fancied his comrade, he'd probably support him better in the field anyway. so stfu gh0st you closet homosexual self-loather. thanks :E.
 
Actually oldagerocker. It doesn't matter if he "supports" him better in battle. They work as a team no matter if they are gay, having a relationship or whatever. The problem is that they would get distracted when training, doing field excersizes or anything where the mind can wonder and it would be a problem.

If your going to say all gays must be allowed in the military no matter what they do, then you would be a hippocrit for not allowing women and men to be mixed. It is all the same problem.
 
Glirk Dient said:
I think it's great homosexuals want to defend their country. As long as they don't go around distracting others during training or the job then I have no problem with it. That is why the military needs to keep the sexes seperate and homosexuals quiet about their preference. They do this so they don't get distracted, start flirting and let it get in the way. I am not talking about when bullets are flying past their head, or anything like that. I am talking about boot camp, training, field excersizes(yes, where they sleep in a tent together). Anything like that. I don't care if it's females and males mixing or homosexuals, both will cause a distraction and that can lead to serious issues.
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I see what you're saying (I think), but I'm not sure it makes sense. You're saying that gay men who are forced to remain in the closet won't become distracted during training, boot camp and all of that. But does that make sense? If a gay man sea’s a soldier he considers attractive his mind may inadvertently "wander" regardless of whether or not he's out to his peers, right? He is, after all, only lying to everyone else about who he is, not himself. So what's the point of this charade then? Why not allow people to be who they are? Your main concern seems to be that you think if gay servicemen are allowed to come out that the US Armed Forces will become some sort of 24/7 gay orgy filled with all sort of deviant behavior. Well, I've had a few jobs in my time, and all of them required a certain amount of professionalism while on duty. For example, having a relationship with a co-worker at Regal Cinemas (even outside of work) was grounds for termination. Now if a group of horny eighteen year old guys and girls (some gay by the way) can keep themselves under control while tending to the popcorn machine and pulling gum off the theater seats, I would expect a soldier in the US military could too. .
 
You example does not relate. In the military peoples lives are on the line. In the military you are there a whole lot longer and by not paying attention during training you could miss a critical instruction and miss that on the battlefield and get someone killed. These people live together, sleep feet apart. It is different, I am sure at your work there was plenty of flirting. That flirting is the problem. Keep women and men seperate so they don't flirt. Keep homosexuals quiet about their preference as it may distract them and others. I am not saying that gay person will have a gay orgy every day during training, his mind may slip and he may flirt with someone, getting them both distracted. If that continued and they kept flirting it would become more serious and they would miss a lot of instruction.
 
That's quite a slippery slope there. Persistence in flirting is as big a risk of somebody daydreaming or developing an insubordinate nature to his superiors. Why on Earth the military can't deal with these issues on a qualitative basis is something I do not understand. Howe was not removed because of any witnessed or reported flirtation. He was removed simply because he's identified as a homosexual on a website, regardless of his actions in the military itself.

I'm going to quote a section of qck's post because I think you missed it and I'm curious as to your response.

You're saying that gay men who are forced to remain in the closet won't become distracted during training, boot camp and all of that. But does that make sense? ... He is, after all, only lying to everyone else about who he is, not himself. So what's the point of this charade then?
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In other words, if homosexuals in the military are such a big issue, why not bar them outright? What do you achieve by making a homosexual silent when he still has a functioning sex drive?

And while I understand your point about flirtation, I don't think it's valid. Both genders can be fully functional in a professional environment. Those that aren't get the boot.
 
Hmm, well I have stated the reasons I see that the military doesn't allow homosexuals in. The military has a great way to make sure you are paying attention. Some of those are...people yelling at you, your life that could be on the line, the fact that you actually go and do what you have learned to make sure you learn it. It is pretty hard to daydream when your out in the field.

It is hard to debate when I believe homosexuals should be able to fight for their country unless they break the rules laid down already(for male and female) type of relationships. I honestly don't see any problem other than them getting or distracting others when their attention is needed. That is the reason men and women are seperated.
 
The dont-ask-dont-tell policy is perfect. I dont want to be in the trenches with someone who may or may not want to punch my donut. The reality is that men and women are separated for a reason, and a very good reason. So they dont ****. It would be the same way in any other workplace if you were around your coworkers 24/7 in the same conditions as the military.
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Men and women are not separated in the military. There are many braches of the UK military where opposite sexes work alongside each other and yes men and women in the armed forces do have relationships and some even carry on these relationships onto married life and raising a family.
Service personnel are encouraged to mix and socialise by the military with many special functions being laid on. The UK armed forces even have married quarters where service personnel can settle in with their partners, many of whom are in the services themselves
The myth of sexual tension being a distraction when you are working in close proximity is simply that.
Sexual discrimination and harassment laws are applied in the forces whereby anybody who felt the immature urge to “punch some body’s donut” would be dealt with in the appropriate manner.
How would I know this? , well I met my wife while in the military; she was also in the services.
In my opinion homosexuals in the services should be treated no different from any other service personnel and their sexual orientation should make no difference whatsoever.
 
On a completely serious note, if I was in a war, I sure as shit hope that the guy in the foxhole with me has the hots for me. I mean, who would you be more willing to risk your life for? Some gal? Or the love of your life? :)

Gays in the military is just fine with me.
 
Problem with gays in the military I don't think many people think about:

The safety of those who are gay. Im not talking about them going up against the enemy. Im talking about them living with and training with people who most likely are statistically more violent and more narrow-minded than the rest of us here. I don't think the military isn't letting gays in because they are bigots but rather because they know that at the troop level the military simply isn't ready for it yet.

What does this mean? Well if I am correct then it means that gays will eventually be allowed in. At the moment they certainly don't seem to be handling this properly but I understand at least this reason for why they may be doing this.
 
Glirk Dient said:
Tell me, how many female marines train at both boot camps?
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Although male and female service personnel may train in different trades and disciplines they are all allowed to mix. On every UK military base I was on there were social clubs and bars allowing social interaction.
 
baxter said:
Although male and female service personnel may train in different trades and disciplines they are all allowed to mix. On every UK military base I was on there were social clubs and bars allowing social interaction.
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The problem with mixing them wasn't on the field as was previously stated. THe problem lies when they train and they may start flirting and get side tracked. Also..the UK is a different country, we are talking about the US here.
 
Glirk Dient said:
THe problem lies when they train and they may start flirting and get side tracked. .
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Sgt.Hartman: a-tenshun! Soldier! are those regulation military trousers?
soldier: Yes sir! pressed and ironed for inspection sir!
Sgt.Hartman: yes ...well ...you look ...errr. ...good ....in your uniform soldier keep up the good work

soldier: ....errr yes sir
 
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