How is "hair" rendered on source?

Mountain Man said:
Those look like renders. Have any in-game examples?
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They are in-game. :p Standards for an FMV in a video game are a lot higher than this.
 
Has anyone seen the "Nalu" demo that runs on Nvidia's 6800 series of cards? Her hair looks really amazing.
 
lol ive seen many computers in the PC store showing the different Nvidia and ATI demos.... they all look really good.. except they run at such a low fps!
 
kaellinn18 said:
Umm, no I don't think they could. That movie was rendered over many many days. I think like fifteen seconds of video = three hours of processing time or something like that.
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15 seconds of film for pixar movies is like 138 hours of rendering.
And the "hair" on conker is not actualy modeled. Its basicly diffrent coats of clear skin with dot textures. I have done this effect many times in models. And it is very possible in source.
 
lans said:
Have you seen Conker: live and reloaded?

http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/490/490304/img_2278941.html
http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/490/490304/img_2278935.html

Conker's fur actually resembles something from a pixar film, and this is a xbox game we are talking about.

I know it's CPU intensive - but was only wondering if it's possible on source. :)
Click to expand...

That's like tree's in HL1 (cs_mansion typical example). Only it's much more of them. It's an optical illusion, a bad one. And it takes most of the CPU power of the Xbox, obviously... Look at the sorroundings.

You can't make it look good like that, it's impossible. Well, without making it very very CPU intense, once again.
 
gahhh! You people don't read much on games do you? The screens in Conquer are in game and they use a little thing called fur shading. (yes that is the real name) It was also used in Crash Bandicoot for the xbox version. Also star fox uses it on gamecube.
 
Dude! Going through your gallery trying to find that picture, you've got porn in there! you could of got me in trouble!
 
KagePrototype said:
Check the link again, it might not be what you were expecting...
Click to expand...

Oh...damn. I wish I was better a teh intarweb. I'll try to fix it.
 
DarkStar said:
Oh.....what? I don't understand.
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I get an image of some guy who has been modified in photoshop and has the text "did you say csport?" in it.

Tis odd. :rolling:
 
The Mullinator said:
There we go. :p

Now that is some very good looking hair.
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It looks computer generates. Which means -- No.
Yes yes, I know, you can't do much better Real-Time, but that's my point. Rather stick with faked hair then simulated.
 
actually games like vampire bloodlines have the fuzzy hair on some of the pimp coats , like you see in conkers.

And yes its all shader specific. It has been answered before can HL2 simulate fabric and hair and the answer is yes.
 
Gorgon said:
http://www.filebunker.net/a/displayimage.php?pos=-2543

if nvidia card can render such a hair like that why its not possible in games then ?
Click to expand...

Because that's not the only thing that goes on. A game isn't just fancy graphics, especilly not with HL2's physics system which runs whenever you touch or interact with something physically simulated, which is quite a lot in the gameworld.

There's also a lot of other aspects which retracts your CPU from helping your GPU/Vid card to display the graphics.

It's just not going to happen.
 
killahsin-[CE] said:
actually games like vampire bloodlines have the fuzzy hair on some of the pimp coats , like you see in conkers.
Click to expand...

I noticed.
 
KagePrototype said:
They are in-game. :p Standards for an FMV in a video game are a lot higher than this.
Click to expand...
I didn't say FMV, I said renders as in conceptual art of what they hope the final game will look like.
 
Mountain Man said:
I didn't say FMV, I said renders as in conceptual art of what they hope the final game will look like.
Click to expand...

Oh, my bad, I thought you meant FMV. But still, the same applies, a render would look on the whole much better than it does in these screens.
 
KagePrototype said:
Oh, my bad, I thought you meant FMV. But still, the same applies, a render would look on the whole much better than it does in these screens.
Click to expand...
Not if they're trying to get something close to what they want the final product to look like. At the very least, those are retouched in-game images.
 
Look guys its pretty simple. Any dx9 min spec game will be able to do real hair and all the bells and whistles you see in most common tech demos. The issue is that has to be the min spec. Otheriwse its all cpu dependent and than there goes your physics and ai. Vertex shaders are nice =)
 
I ask again, what would realistically rendered hair add in terms of gameplay? And I'm asking about any game, not just Half-Life 2.
 
Mountain Man said:
I ask again, what would realistically rendered hair add in terms of gameplay? And I'm asking about any game, not just Half-Life 2.
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Absolutely nothing... though it might make them a little more immersive. But you could say the same about almost ANY graphical development. But that's no reason for stopping all graphics research unless they can make it improve gameplay. Take Manhunt and Metal Gear solid for examples. With a little tweaking, they could both be played in the simple radar screens without much hit to gameplay. It would feel like playing pac man, but hey, what's the point in graphics? ;)
 
Mountain Man said:
I ask again, what would realistically rendered hair add in terms of gameplay? And I'm asking about any game, not just Half-Life 2.
Click to expand...

And I ask what does graphics add to gameplay?

Nothing - but they make a game pretty. Is that a bad thing? no.
 
Whatever. I was just wondering why it was such a big deal to the thread originator.
 
I guess they were just curious about how it handled them. And I was just trying to point out that for the next few years 90% of all gaming "evolutions" will be graphical in nature. I have no problem with this as long as games look better and there are a few people willing to inovate with gameplay.

My only problem is with PC hardware; people are so concerned with using the latest effects offered by now-next-gen cards and processors that no one tries to push existing models to their limits.

look at the lifespan of a console. The hardware is the same, but people get more and more graphical power for their dollar as the system becomes more familiar. With PC games, the hardware is evolving at a much quicker rate, so game makers have to work to stay up to date.

in simple terms, a console game maker looks at the memory and processor and everything available on their system and works hard to get it to do everything and make things look great. A PC game maker looks at what they want to do, and if they want more, they up the system requirements.

now this train of thought is de-railing into rant territory so I'm going to go and hope this still makes sense in the morning.
 
why did you write "hair" like that, with inverted commas? (to thread starter)
 
I think Prince Of Persia: Sands Of Time hair looked good , without being intensive for the cpu just a few "flexible" polys , it didn't look GREAT but it did look good , and in style with the rest of the game.
 
I think anything that adds to the visual experience definately adds to the gameplay. The more realistic it looks, the more it immerses me.

Ps-And for the guy who said it took 6 hours to render one frame from in monsters inc. Times that by 24 and you get what it takes for one second. Blah blah blah blah blah the answer you get for total rendering time for the movie is 1036800 hours. That's a crap ton. There is only 8760 hours in a year. LMFAO........ That would take 118.36 years.
 
lans said:
I was wondering - does source use a special shader to render hair, like the eyes? or like older games hair is a texture?

I know the HL2 character models are using textures for hair, but is it otherwise possible to render realistic fur/hair in source?
Click to expand...
No, it is not fesible to render a hair system on the source engine.

That's my final answer.
 
Hair is simulated using masked materials

they just make a few polys that stick out of the head and throw a masked hair texture on them
 
lans said:
Have you seen Conker: live and reloaded?

http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/490/490304/img_2278941.html
http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/490/490304/img_2278935.html

Conker's fur actually resembles something from a pixar film, and this is a xbox game we are talking about.

I know it's CPU intensive - but was only wondering if it's possible on source. :)
Click to expand...

That's nothing like a pixar film, its just a clever layer of sprites.

Source would surely be capable of the same thing, but if you're talking about physical strands of individual hair, i doubt it. And if someone did try it, it wouldn't look all that great

www.worley.com look in the Sasquatch gallery for some real kickass examples of 3d Hair done right
 
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