I hate SOME people

[Tr0n]

Let me put it this way...Death is only the first step...sometimes you got to accept yours in order to defend others.May sound like some super hero shit to you...but hey...most people are willing to die for others.

 

[lePobz]

If her life was on the line then yeah, but what percentage of rape victims are then murdered - well below half a percent.

You never know till you're in the situation - if the woman is being dragged off somewhere then of course you intervene - but if the crime has already taken place then why go add yourself to the casualty list and risk being killed - when you can be more use by just getting evidence/details of the attackers?

 

[poseyjmac]

Oh great, this is where the thread spirals into flames...

Posey, all I'm saying is, what more could he have done? If you would have run in guns blazing, that's up to you, but personally I think he did what any of us would do in such a situation (unless in possession of a CCW, etc.) Rapists have a long history of killing people, and by rushing in, you would be endangering yourself and the woman being raped. He said that the rapists noticed him, and that was probably enough to stop them. I don't know how many high adrenaline situations you've been in, but things can go horribly awry in seconds. If one of the rapists were to panic, he could have turned violent and killed both of them.

you're just as black and white as pobz. THERE ARENT SIMPLY 2 CHOICES HERE. I DIDN'T SAY RUSH IN OR RUN. i said standing your ground with a mean ****ing look on your face might suffice, giving you ample safety, a look at the perps, and time to make a reaction, either running or after evaluating the situation, something else.

you really dont know much about criminal profiles, rapists aren't usually prone to panic and kill people when confronted by another person, they are prone to run like hell

 

[FoxDie]

Well some people aren't like you lepobz...Realisticly if it was me I would have distracted the guys...even if it meant death to allow her to run away.But of course you probally wouldn't understand that...now would you?Now in Farrows postion he couldn't do anything except tell the police what has happend.So he has done something to put those guys behind bars...and I for one am proud of farrow.

Agreed, I think Farrow did the right thing too.

But you have to realize that in these types of situations, you don't have any time to think. We can sit on forums and debate about what we would do in the situation for weeks, but realistically, none of us knows until it happens. This is the reason that Law Enforcement and military units train so much. They have to condition themselves to be able to make split second decisions without hesitation, and make the right decision. Like I've said, adrenaline is a HUGE player here, it alters your state of mind, your thought process etc.

EDIT:

you're just as black and white as pobz. THERE ARENT SIMPLY 2 CHOICES HERE. I DIDN'T SAY RUSH IN OR RUN. i said standing your ground with a mean ****ing look on your face might suffice, giving you ample safety, a look at the perps, and time to make a reaction, either running or after evaluating the situation, something else.

you really dont know much about criminal profiles, rapists aren't usually prone to panic and kill people when confronted by another person, they are prone to run like hell

Distraction is another option, you're right. It may have done some good, but going on your evaluation of rapists, just hearing another person in the bushes (they heard Farrow) should have scared them off.

But come on, you can't seriously think that all rapists aren't violent? I agree that compared to other criminals, they may be more proned to flee, but a great number of serial killers are also rapists...

 

[h4vvok]

Best thing to do in a situation in which it's 2vs1 is distraction or action. Get their attention, throw something, anything you can do to distract....then lead them away, even if it means getting roughed up or having to fight. I would much rather try to fight them than let them rape someone...I HAVE been in this situation before at a party, in which I only had 1 person to deal with....he broke my nose, I broke 4 of his ribs and his jaw (if I wasn't the designated driver things could have been very bad, as I am a complete fool when intoxicated)
One very important thing if you ever must fight someone is not to underestimate them and to keep your guard up, people don't fight like in the movies, it can get dirty and you need to not give up.

 

[lePobz]

I'm not 'black and white' ... i'm saying you don't know what you should do till you're in the situation and are able to weigh up the odds from what you can see/hear.

If you think the victims life is in danger then of course you should risk your life to save theirs - but if it isnt - and a confrontation would risk both of you - then you are serving a better purpose by taking details that can be later used to take such rapists off the streets.

Don't misunderstand me, please.

 

[Joeslucky22]

Sissy.....


You should of ran back, grabbed your bike with one hand and beat the s*** out of those black guys.

They're just too F***in ugly to get women in their life, so they have to force women to do it.

See i say we just take all those kinda f***ed up people (which would be pretty much 60% of america) and shove them into montana and close the borders around the state, letting no black people out or druggies. They can all kill themselves for all I care.

 

[poseyjmac]

i think farrow could have stood his ground for a few seconds, that might have been enough. doesn't matter if you are weak or not capable, if you stand there, you let them know that the situation is going to become possibly more complicated. an even better thing to do, would be for him to shout behind him 'HEY GUYS COME HERE, SHES OVER HERE'. something like that, would have done wonders.

but if things dont work out you can always run.regardless, its something to know for next time

 

[Burn]

If her life was on the line then yeah, but what percentage of rape victims are then murdered - well below half a percent.

You never know till you're in the situation - if the woman is being dragged off somewhere then of course you intervene - but if the crime has already taken place then why go add yourself to the casualty list and risk being killed - when you can be more use by just getting evidence/details of the attackers?

- Go see whats happaned
- If the attacks are still there, yell at them
- If they run away, good, go help girl then get police
- If they run at you, run away and lead them off, chances are she will leave by herself, or someone will come to your aid.

Well below half eh? Thats nice, thats perfect, sure why not bother helping them, heck call out "Its ok dear, less then half raped girls are killed afterwards, just ride it out!"

Why risk yourself when shes allready been raped? Gee I dunno, maybe she would want some help?? I hate to use 9/11 as an example, but do you think after the planes hit everyone went "Oh well lets not risk our lives for them, after all, its allready happaned" No? I did'nt think so.

 

[lePobz]

Read my next post please? Like I said... TILL YOU'RE IN THE SITUATION, YOU DON'T KNOW...

 

[poseyjmac]

Read my next post please? Like I said... TILL YOU'RE IN THE SITUATION, YOU DON'T KNOW...

who are you talking to?

all the choices ive presented are choices that are based off the situation when you DO know. they are things you can do that will let you know. im not making any assumptions here.

 

[Burn]

Read my next post please? Like I said... TILL YOU'RE IN THE SITUATION, YOU DON'T KNOW...

Read MINE again, I clearly said "Go see whats happaned"

Geez...

Oh and what you said about "If there life is not in danger dont go help" Well, screw that ok, I know someone who was raped and im pretty sure she would'nt like someone standing around takeing freaking notes while it happaned. She would want HELP.

 

[Tr0n]

Things like this really piss me off...Why do people do such acts?I have 2 friends that were raped when they was in there young teens and it just pisses me off why guys do such things.I see this story and reminds me of what happend to them and it makes me sad to see people let things happen like that.Maybe LePobz if you had someone close to you get raped you would understand where I'm coming at.

Don't ever think twice about your life when thinking of saving others.Heres a little quote I live by...

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

 

[FoxDie]

who are you talking to?

all the choices ive presented are choices that are based off the situation when you DO know. they are things you can do that will let you know. im not making any assumptions here.

Posey, the point is, we'd all like to think we would help her, but you don't have time to think in that type of situation. You don't get to hit pause and think, "Hmmm, how can I distract them? Should I run, or should I fight them? Let's make a list of the pros and cons..." It's Fight or Flight, and it's split second reaction, not a planned decision.

Here are some stats for you:

In 29% of rapes, the offender used a weapon.

At least 45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

You're correct that rapes are less commonly tied to murder, but I wouldn't want to put the girl, and myself in danger.

I'm not 'black and white' ... i'm saying you don't know what you should do till you're in the situation and are able to weigh up the odds from what you can see/hear.

If you think the victims life is in danger then of course you should risk your life to save theirs - but if it isnt - and a confrontation would risk both of you - then you are serving a better purpose by taking details that can be later used to take such rapists off the streets.

Don't misunderstand me, please.

Well put.

 

[lePobz]

Joeslucky - bit racist maybe ?

posey - I was talking to The Mistress

and Posey - you are making a lot of assumptions. There are so many factors that could change your judgement - i.e. time of day? darkness? forest? woman screaming or crying? multiple footsteps around you of possible attackers or just one?

Until you are in the situation to make the decisions, you don't know what to do. Of course your first priority is to the welfare of the victim - but at the same time if you make the wrong choices you can both end up casualties.

You don't know, so please stop trying to sound like a 'hero' on the forums. It's merely text. Heroes are not made by tapping words on forums.

 

[Tr0n]

Posey, the point is, we'd all like to think we would help her, but you don't have time to think in that type of situation. You don't get to hit pause and think, "Hmmm, how can I distract them? Should I run, or should I fight them? Let's make a list of the pros and cons..." It's Fight or Flight, and it's split second reaction, not a planned decision.

Here are some stats for you:

In 29% of rapes, the offender used a weapon.

At least 45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

You're correct that rapes are less commonly tied to murder, but I wouldn't want to put the girl, and myself in danger.


Well put.

But she is already in danger...BY GETTING RAPED!Guys damn your a bunch of cowering pussies who need to stop thinking about your lives first and going by some statistics on a website.Grow some damn balls...

Edit:Your right heros are not made by text on some messageboard...there made by taking action.Something your to damn sissy to do...

 

[FoxDie]

"Its ok dear, less then half raped girls are killed afterwards, just ride it out!"

Why risk yourself when shes allready been raped? Gee I dunno, maybe she would want some help?? I hate to use 9/11 as an example, but do you think after the planes hit everyone went "Oh well lets not risk our lives for them, after all, its allready happaned" No? I did'nt think so.

Fatalities occur in about 0.1% of all rape cases.

Until you are in the situation to make the decisions, you don't know what to do. Of course your first priority is to the welfare of the victim - but at the same time if you make the wrong choices you can both end up casualties.

You don't know, so please stop trying to sound like a 'hero' on the forums. It's merely text. Heroes are not made by tapping words on forums.

Thank you lePobz, that is exactly what I have been trying to say.

 

[Burn]

Ok lets get this to stop now, NO ONE IS SAYING THERE A HERO.

Stoping someone getting raped does not make you a hero, it means you got basic comman sence. God..

-Frosty- I dont care if its 1%, 00.1% or whatever, the point of the matter is, there getting raped, and beilive me for some people that can be worse then dieing.

 

[lePobz]

How stupid can people be... Did you even read a word of that?

I don't think you have much 'comman sence'. Read it again. Thanks.

 

[FoxDie]

Ok lets get this to stop now, NO ONE IS SAYING THERE A HERO.

Stoping someone getting raped does not make you a hero, it means you got basic comman sence. God..

-Frosty- I dont care if its 1%, 00.1% or whatever, the point of the matter is, there getting raped, and beilive me for some people that can be worse then dieing.

Everybody, we all agree here. The girl needs help, but me and Pobz are saying that the preventing her murder would be more important than stopping the rape early.

But she is already in danger...BY GETTING RAPED!Guys damn your a bunch of cowering pussies who need to stop thinking about your lives first and going by some statistics on a website.Grow some damn balls...

Edit:Your right heros are not made by text on some messageboard...there made by taking action.

My entire point was that none of us know what we would do, and insulting Farrow for doing what he did isn't right. Like you said, heros aren't made by text, they are made by taking action, and you can't sit in your desk chair and tell me what you would do in the situation, you don't know. Of course she needs help, and her safety is of the upmost importance, but none of us were there, we are all making assumptions. I have a hard time listening to all of you guys spout your stories about what you would have done, when you have no idea. It's similar to when soldiers go to war. Generally they are pumped up and ready to go shoot the bad guys, but once exposed to combat they realize the horrible reality of war, and wish more than anything that they could return home.

 

[poseyjmac]

Posey, the point is, we'd all like to think we would help her, but you don't have time to think in that type of situation. You don't get to hit pause and think, "Hmmm, how can I distract them? Should I run, or should I fight them? Let's make a list of the pros and cons..." It's Fight or Flight, and it's split second reaction, not a planned decision.

Here are some stats for you:

In 29% of rapes, the offender used a weapon.

At least 45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

You're correct that rapes are less commonly tied to murder, but I wouldn't want to put the girl, and myself in danger.


Well put.

yes i know you wouldn't want to put yourself in danger, thats not being challenged here.

it IS a planned decision if you go over the possibilities in a discussion, like this for example.

like i said its not as simple as fight or run. SHOUTING VERY LOUD "HEY GUYS OVER HERE" would do wonders. and now that you know you can try it if that situation ever happens to you.

 

[Burn]

You know what, I just feel sorry for anyone who is being abused/attacked or raped with you around lePobz, Im done with this stupid discussion.

 

[poseyjmac]

Joeslucky - bit racist maybe ?

posey - I was talking to The Mistress

and Posey - you are making a lot of assumptions. There are so many factors that could change your judgement - i.e. time of day? darkness? forest? woman screaming or crying? multiple footsteps around you of possible attackers or just one?

Until you are in the situation to make the decisions, you don't know what to do. Of course your first priority is to the welfare of the victim - but at the same time if you make the wrong choices you can both end up casualties.

You don't know, so please stop trying to sound like a 'hero' on the forums. It's merely text. Heroes are not made by tapping words on forums.

im not trying to sound like a hero, im merely not trying to sound like a cowardly person as you are.

you do know what to do if you go over the plans, like we are doing now in this forum. its like any other form of training, you practice it, study it, and when the time comes you can use that to your advantage.

 

[lePobz]

...^ what he said - and also Mistress - I understand that a woman being raped must make them feel like dying is the better option - but if she's already been violated then a guy running in there would not have stopped that from already happening - unless of course they were disturbed early enough. This is another factor that you just can't assume. You have to be there to know these things to decide what is the best action to take.

 

[Tr0n]

Everybody, we all agree here. The girl needs help, but me and Pobz are saying that the preventing her murder would be more important than stopping the rape early.


My entire point was that none of us know what we would do, and insulting Farrow for doing what he did isn't right. Like you said, heros aren't made by text, they are made by taking action, and you can't sit in your desk chair and tell me what you would do in the situation, you don't know. Of course she needs help, and her safety is of the upmost importance, but none of us were there, we are all making assumptions. I have a hard time listening to all of you guys spout your stories about what you would have done, when you have no idea. It's similar to when soldiers go to war. Generally they are pumped up and ready to go shoot the bad guys, but once exposed to combat they realize the horrible reality of war, and wish more than anything that they could return home.

Refer to my post about my 2 friends...and you would understand and I'll be damned to let it happen to someone else.So I already know the action I will take because I'm morally set to not let it happen....

 

[lePobz]

im not trying to sound like a hero, im merely not trying to sound like a cowardly person as you are.

Cowardly? Which part? I'm willing to risk my life to save another just as any good willing human - the fact im trying to put across is that cowardlyness isnt determined by text on forums - neither is heroism - merely that you have to actually experience the scenario to know what action to take.

Do you honestly disagree to this?

 

[FoxDie]

yes i know you wouldn't want to put yourself in danger, thats not being challenged here.

it IS a planned decision if you go over the possibilities in a discussion, like this for example.

like i said its not as simple as fight or run. SHOUTING VERY LOUD "HEY GUYS OVER HERE" would do wonders. and now that you know you can try it if that situation ever happens to you.

I agree that it would help, but the whole reason I began posting in this thread was to defend Farrow, because some posters were saying he made the wrong decision, and were badmouthing him for it.

You know what, I just feel sorry for anyone who is being abused/attacked or raped with you around lePobz, Im done with this stupid discussion.

Did you read his posts?

im not trying to sound like a hero, im merely not trying to sound like a cowardly person as you are.

you do know what to do if you go over the plans, like we are doing now in this forum. its like any other form of training, you practice it, study it, and when the time comes you can use that to your advantage.

The point is, we can all theorize about what our response would be, sitting comfortably in our desk chairs in front of our glowing monitors, and disscuss it since we have heard the circumstances. As I said, my entire purpose in this thread was to defend Farrow, and I think that has been achieved.

By the way, don't call him a coward Posey. He was approaching the sitaution rationally trying to do what would keep the girl alive. He even stated he would risk his life if necessary (as most of us here would, including me.) He never said he would run away, he was taking her life into consideration.

 

[lePobz]

The Mistress - Rest assured, anyone being raped around me would have their best interests at heart. Dealing with these situations requires a lot of careful thought and decision making based on information that you can only be aware of there and then.

You can not make decisions based on assumptions, when the outcome could end up with 2 bodies and no suspects.

 

[FoxDie]

The Mistress - Rest assured, anyone being raped around me would have their best interests at heart. Dealing with these situations requires a lot of careful thought and decision making based on information that you can only be aware of there and then.

You can not make decisions based on assumptions, when the outcome could end up with 2 bodies and no suspects.

I think that is where the main conflict is coming from in this thread. We are saying that we don't know what our reactions would be, because we weren't there. While others claim to know what they would do. This seems to be the key line to me: You can not make decisions based on assumptions, when the outcome could end up with 2 bodies and no suspects.

 

[poseyjmac]

I agree that it would help, but the whole reason I began posting in this thread was to defend Farrow, because some posters were saying he made the wrong decision, and were badmouthing him for it.

Did you read his posts?

The point is, we can all theorize about what our response would be, sitting comfortably in our desk chairs in front of our glowing monitors, and disscuss it since we have heard the circumstances. As I said, my entire purpose in this thread was to defend Farrow, and I think that has been achieved.

By the way, don't call him a coward Posey. He was approaching the sitaution rationally trying to do what would keep the girl alive. He even stated he would risk his life if necessary (as most of us here would, including me.) He never said he would run away, he was taking her life into consideration.

trying to do what he could to keep the person alive? reminds me of a al qaeda agent torturing an american.

im not bad mouthing farrow, im not even saying he should tear himself up over this.

im just saying you can be ready for these kinds of things to make the best choice if you go over them beforehand. like i said its like training. maybe in school they should offer courses on this type of thing. personally I go over worse case scenarios randomly if im sitting at my computer or laying in bed. like what do i do if i hear an intruder in my condo, ok now that i see him what do i do based off what i see. what to do in a bank if a man pulls a gun.etc.. its just preparation for bullshit that life throws at us

 

[burnzie]

Its very hard to know what to do in those situations. because you dont know how people are going to react.

a while ago in frankston (town near where i live) a guy beeped his horn at another guy at a round about. the guy in the other car got out and stabed him in the face. people are nuts. who would of thought beeping your horn could get you killed. i beep my horn at people for doing stupid things all the time, someone could stab me. its scary to think the smallest action could have such huge conciquences.

now put yourself in sparrows shoes for a minute. your faced with going after two people. there obviously mentaly unbalanced because they are atacking that women. you dont know what they are carrying. Knifes, guns, syringes. they could also be on drugs. they may not be able to feel the pain you inflict apon them meening its gonna be very hard to take them down if they attack you. if you show up whats to say they just dont kill the both of you. that would solve nothing.

there are many different ways that it could have gone down. You didnt do the wrong thing. you tried to get help. you didnt ignor what was going on. You did the smart thing. (or tried to). Sometimes you just cant help.

 

[poseyjmac]

I think that is where the main conflict is coming from in this thread. We are saying that we don't know what our reactions would be, because we weren't there. While others claim to know what they would do. This seems to be the key line to me: You can not make decisions based on assumptions, when the outcome could end up with 2 bodies and no suspects.

you're making an assumption there yourself so its a moot point

 

[lePobz]

poseyjmac you are absolutely clueless - you can train for events your whole life but the real world never follows your plans.

The best thing you can do is learn how to defend yourself and stay alert. Common sense and human instinct should do the rest.

 

[FoxDie]

you're making an assumption there yourself so its a moot point

What did I assume? I was affirming the possibility of Pobz's presented outcome.

Here's what it comes down to: We would all do what was in the best interest of the victim, and do our best to save her. Me and Pobz aren't saying that we would run away because we are selfish bastards. We are saying that her life is the most important factor here.

Can't we all agree on that?

Its very hard to know what to do in those situations. because you dont know how people are going to react.

a while ago in frankston (town near where i live) a guy beeped his horn at another guy at a round about. the guy in the other car got out and stabed him in the face. people are nuts. who would of thought beeping your horn could get you killed. i beep my horn at people for doing stupid things all the time, someone could stab me. its scary to think the smallest action could have such huge conciquences.

now put yourself in sparrows shoes for a minute. your faced with going after two people. there obviously mentaly unbalanced because they are atacking that women. you dont know what they are carrying. Knifes, guns, syringes. they could also be on drugs. they may not be able to feel the pain you inflict apon them meening its gonna be very hard to take them down if they attack you. if you show up whats to say they just dont kill the both of you. that would solve nothing.

there are many different ways that it could have gone down. You didnt do the wrong thing. you tried to get help. you didnt ignor what was going on. You did the smart thing. (or tried to). Sometimes you just cant help.

Someone besides Pobz who shares my opinions :O

 

[poseyjmac]

poseyjmac you are absolutely clueless - you can train for events your whole life but the real world never follows your plans.

The best thing you can do is learn how to defend yourself and stay alert. Common sense and human instinct should do the rest.

no, the fact is it HELPS, i never said it would make you invulernable, which is the assumption you are making. defending yourself is only part of it. alert too.

swat teams go over many theoertical situations in training, while its not like the real thing, it HELPS a lot. this is what im saying.

 

[poseyjmac]

We are saying that her life is the most important factor here.

Can't we all agree on that?

no we can't. her well-being is the most important factor. you apparently missed my post about the torture bit.

 

[burnzie]

Saying that, there is also some other things he could have done that i would have. i would look for another guy, someone else to at least even out the fight, then id go in.

it would be stupid to jump in the deep end when theres a good chance it wont help anything...

 

[lePobz]

That's all good poseyjmac, but we're civilians, not SWAT. You expect everyone to go to SWAT school now just so we can play cops and rapists in the forest?

 

[FoxDie]

swat teams go over many theoertical situations in training, while its not like the real thing, it HELPS a lot. this is what im saying.

SWAT training is very different, though. They hone their reaction times, and practice making smart decisions despite their adrenaline. They stage hostage scenerios, and use milsim rounds, making it as realistic as possible. Going over a situation in your mind is very different, although if you think it helps, by all means, continue

 

[poseyjmac]

Saying that, there is also some other things he could have done that i would have. i would look for another guy, someone else to at least even out the fight, then id go in.

it would be stupid to jump in the deep end when theres a good chance it wont help anything...

or call for your friends, even if they aren't there, or acting crazy and agile, to appear capable of bad things. its a great tactic that works in so many situations, and in situations throughout history, not to mention in nature, many animals do this. making your enemy think you are more powerful than you really are.