I just had to share this pic of my registered short barrel shotgun

[SIGbastard]

This is a Saiga 12 I sent to Tromix to be converted to their S-17. It is legally considered a short barrel shotgun in the US as the barrel is under 18". Due to this it is registered with the ATF and a $200 NFA Tax stamp had to be purchased for it after the proper paperwork and background checks were approved.

It has an 8" barrel with shortened gas system for reliable function, reconditioned HK drum sight, galil style charging handle, shark brake, and a Tromix folding stock. The magazine in the pic is a factory Russian 8 rd magazine. I also own 5rd mags, tons of 10rd mags, and a 20rd drum
God damn I love the USA!!

 

[kineaesth]

What a waste of money and time.

 

[Raziaar]

You do a disservice to SIG Sauer!

 

[SIGbastard]

What a waste of money and time.

You don't have a hobby?

I grew up shooting. I have lots of firearms from old bolt actions to modern military weapons. I do not own machine guns but I do own several short barrel rifles, this short barrel shotgun, and a sound suppressor for my .22's. All owned legally.

I make all of my own ammunition except .22lr and shotgun shells. I strive for marksmanship in all shooting platforms. Do not judge a gun by it's appearances. Many military designs are as accurate as commonly purchased hunting rifles. With superior ergonomics, handling, and reliability. This shotgun is more for shits and giggles than anything. I wouldn't use it for shooting trap or skeet.

 

[Stigmata]

What a waste of money and time.

Says the man living on an island nation, safe from zombie apocalypses.

 

[Sloth]

I know it may well be a hobby - but what are you ever going to use this shotgun for?

It is designed to kill people, not to hunt.

 

[arch5]

Uses:
Zombie Apocalypse
......shooting trees

 

[SIGbastard]

I know it may well be a hobby - but what are you ever going to use this shotgun for?

It is designed to kill people, not to hunt.

I've carried a gun for 7 years now. I carry guns to have the ability to kill people if needed. I don't care what you liberal nancy boys think. Now this isn't made for concealed carry obviously but it would work fine for self defense. I will mainly use it for range time fun.

I consider self defense the duty of any family guy. I'm not delusional I don't think the world is going to end soon. Protecting myself and my family is a big priority. My family would really be devastated financially if I die. Also others around me depend on me for a job as their job revolves around me. I have many reasons to protect myself from others.

I care about other people. I give my share for others. I am a dentist and a really big portion of my work is medicaid which is basically free coverage for low income americans. For kids it covers everything but for adults it only covers extractions. Still I can help an adult out and pull upwards of 30 teeth in a denture surgery. Extractions, alveoplasty, tori removal, suturing etc all for free for someone who can't rub 2 pennies together. I make damn good money doing it also.

 

[kineaesth]

What a waste of money and time.

You don't have a hobby?

[I HAVE ALL THESE GUNS LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT ALL THE GUNS I HAVE I REALLY LIKE GUNS I LIKE SHOOTING GUNS I HAVE LOTS OF GUNS AND SHOOT GUNS]

I do have a few hobbies, yeah. My hobbies are generally not completely impractical and expensive. It's also very hard to kill people with my hobbies.

 

[SIGbastard]

I do have a few hobbies, yeah. My hobbies are generally not completely impractical and expensive. It's also very hard to kill people with my hobbies.

Some people need killing. Some milk jugs need to be blasted.

I should take some pics of my Barrett.

 

[Bob_Marley]

I know it may well be a hobby - but what are you ever going to use this shotgun for?

It is designed to kill people, not to hunt.

Practical Shotgun. Not sure how popular it is in the US, but its fairly big in the UK (but thats largely because pistols are banned), but none the less is a recognised, sporting use for that sort of shotgun. Probably even better than most the guns I've seen in the sport over here, as it isn't constrained by minimum barrel/overall length (well it is, but he's paid for the SBR tax stamp)

Some people like shooting guns and are willing to spend lots of money to do it. Some people like to play PC games and are willing to spend a load of money on a top of the line gaming rig.

Also, guns arn't designed to kill people, or anything else for that matter. They're designed to carry out the mechanical functions required of them to fire the ammunition they're designed for with acceptable accuracy and reliability.

 

[peter]

No wonder the USA has so much gun crime. These types of guns are totally not needed.

 

[SIGbastard]

You know I am a pretty safe sane responsible individual I don't see what the issue is.

I have a gun vault that weighs 700lbs and is bolts to a concrete foundation. I have a very big metal office cabinet with a keyed lock for my ammuntion. I want to protect myself from theft, and protect my children when they are to young to understand the responsibility.

I didn't start this thread to debate. Please enjoy the pic.

 

[Vegeta897]

What a waste of money and time.

I do have a few hobbies, yeah. My hobbies are generally not completely impractical and expensive.

OH LOOK OPINIONS

This may be hard for you to accept, but some people like guns. They are machines of precision design. Surely you can comprehend someone being interested in such a thing? The fact that they're lethal gives it a 'coolness' factor (like people who are into knives) but that doesn't mean liking guns means you like killing people or killing anything. Plus, you can shoot them which most people would agree is a pretty fun thing to do, it can give you a rush. Or you can try to improve your marksmanship with target shooting. All the while taking care of your machine through proper operation and cleaning.

In short, it's a legitimate hobby and for you to call it a waste of money or time is totally ignorant, because such an OPINION could be applied to any hobby.

 

[SIGbastard]

No wonder the USA has so much gun crime. These types of guns are totally not needed.

These types of guns are highly restricted. If you have any criminal record it's not going to happen. In some states the police chief in your county has to sign off on your forms. You are legally required to keep it locked up when not in your posession. So basically you don't know what your talking about. The ATF has a file on me. Short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, AOW's, destructive devices, machine guns, and suppressors are highly restricted in the US. Legal ownership of these items is a tiny fraction of gun owners. Most don't even know it's legal through the proper avenues.

 

[Stigmata]

You know I am a pretty safe sane responsible individual I don't see what the issue is.

I have a gun vault that weighs 700lbs and is bolts to a concrete foundation. I have a very big metal office cabinet with a keyed lock for my ammuntion. I want to protect myself from theft, and protect my children when they are to young to understand the responsibility.

I didn't start this thread to debate. Please enjoy the pic.

This is reasonable. I still think that the shotgun you have is overkill (pun totally intended), but if you're keeping it safe like this then I've got no huge moral problems with it. Everyone's got hobbies and everyone has their own reasons why, and reasons for their reasons why.

Do you have any more "socially reasonable" firearms?

 

[kineaesth]

Also, guns arn't designed to kill people, or anything else for that matter. They're designed to carry out the mechanical functions required of them to fire the ammunition they're designed for with acceptable accuracy and reliability.

Hahahaha beautiful display of reductionism there, I'm very impressed. I'm sure you could explain away everything!

I should take some pics of my Barrett.

And just to clarify, I've got no problem with people owning certain guns. I think if I had a big-ass sniper rifle, I'd be pretty happy. Because sniping takes skill, and precision, and practice, and happens in a very controlled environment. Which is just fine.

 

[Bob_Marley]

I didn't start this thread to debate. Please enjoy the pic.

Yes you did. This is HL2.net, you knew exactly what was going to happen before you posted. If you just wanted people to enjoy the pic you'd have put it in the image dump rather than start a thread on it.

And just to clarify, I've got no problem with people owning certain guns. I think if I had a big-ass sniper rifle, I'd be pretty happy. Because sniping takes skill, and precision, and practice, and happens in a very controlled environment. Which is just fine.

So spake the man who'd never actually been to a shooting range. Seriously, practical shooting is one of the most demanding and skill intensive forms of civilian shooting - go try run a practical shotgun range without any practice and tell me it doesn't take any skill.

 

[Dog--]

I do have a few hobbies, yeah. My hobbies are generally not completely impractical and expensive. It's also very hard to kill people with my hobbies.

Completely lost respect for you. I know that isn't much coming from ME of all people but Jesus Christ man. You're pretty stupid.



On topic: I think it looks awesome. Now we just need those zombies to hurry the shit up and start their apocalypse already.

 

[FrostedxB]

I do have a few hobbies, yeah. My hobbies are generally not completely impractical and expensive. It's also very hard to kill people with my hobbies.

No wonder the USA has so much gun crime. These types of guns are totally not needed.

I find myself posting this again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIHDHZf1TA


Watch the whole damn thing before jumping to conclusions.

Those Saiga 12's are real nice, was looking into getting one, but a pump-action Winchester (if I can find one (Winchester's decline yadayada)) seems more practical.

What kinda fire rate does it have? Read somewhere that, while it wasn't full auto, it shot much faster then a Benelli M4 (M1014) and the 20 round drum seems like a handy thing to have...

 

[Escaep]

So, you like being engineer?

 

[Danimal]

He solves practical problems.

 

[Sloth]

Sorry if I caused a stir - I am not against small firearms, if someone wants to protect their family and feel safer, caring a pistol seems alright to me.

But when ordinary citizens are able to carry large weapons with the underlying purpose of killing people, not animals - then I disagree. A shotgun of that style is better suited to combat in a war-zone than a suburban backyard.

People are not saints and never will be, the possibility of split second choices being something that could haunt the holder of the weapon are a high chance.

Also, SIGbastard, you're a Healthcare professional - please tell me why you would want to serve out grevious bodily harm in the form of lead pellets?

 

[SIGbastard]

So, you like being engineer?

Here in the US I am considered a doctor of dental surgery.

 

[unozero]

SIG don't bother with these people they'll never understand.

 

[FrostedxB]

Sorry if I caused a stir - I am not against small firearms, if someone wants to protect their family and feel safer, caring a pistol seems alright to me.

But when ordinary citizens are able to carry large weapons with the underlying purpose of killing people, not animals - then I disagree. A shotgun of that style is better suited to combat in a war-zone than a suburban backyard.

People are not saints and never will be, the possibility of split second choices being something that could haunt the holder of the weapon are a high chance.

Also, SIGbastard, you're a Healthcare professional - please tell me why you would want to serve out grevious bodily harm in the form of lead pellets?

Some people have larger weapons (IE, OP's shotgun) because its fun. Go out with some close friends on a weekend with paper targets or whatever and having target practice or milsim runs is fun. Others are avid collectors and want a decent arsenal for whatever reason (to show off?). Sure theres nearly no chance of ever needing a gun, but you just never know if you will.

 

[SIGbastard]

Sorry if I caused a stir - I am not against small firearms, if someone wants to protect their family and feel safer, caring a pistol seems alright to me.

But when ordinary citizens are able to carry large weapons with the underlying purpose of killing people, not animals - then I disagree. A shotgun of that style is better suited to combat in a war-zone than a suburban backyard.

People are not saints and never will be, the possibility of split second choices being something that could haunt the holder of the weapon are a high chance.

Also, SIGbastard, you're a Healthcare professional - please tell me why you would want to serve out grevious bodily harm in the form of lead pellets?

I don't live in the city. Right now I'm kinda in transition but I work in a really rural area. I hope to own a big piece of land soon. I am going to close on the sale of my home and land where I used to live on the 15th!!. Regardless of whether I can shoot on my land or not I am not going to be close to other people. There is Corps of Engineers land all over the place around me in almost every direction. It is public access land that you are free to hunt, shoot, 4 wheel, fish, camp etc. Thousands of acres. The spot I found requires 4-wheel drive to reach. It is used by many as it is a perfect natural gun range with a huge dirt cliff back stop. There are lots of brass casings, shells, and targets out there but I have never seen another person. It is nice and relaxing. You probably wouldn't understand.

There is state mandates in Oklahoma and Texas for killing hogs. You can go out and shoot any hog you see and leave it to rot. It's due to huge population issues as it is not a native species and reeks havok. I want to find out when and where you can find them. I will take probably an ar15 with lots of ammo. Maybe I can find a herd and do my part by mowing them down:sniper:.

 

[SIGbastard]

I don't live in the city. Right now I'm kinda in transition but I work in a really rural area. I hope to own a big piece of land soon. I am going to close on the sale of my home and land where I used to live on the 15th!!. Regardless of whether I can shoot on my land or not I am not going to be close to other people. There is Corps of Engineers land all over the place around me in almost every direction. It is public access land that you are free to hunt, shoot, 4 wheel, fish, camp etc. Thousands of acres. The spot I found requires 4-wheel drive to reach. It is used by many as it is a perfect natural gun range with a huge dirt cliff back stop. There are lots of brass casings, shells, and targets out there but I have never seen another person. It is nice and relaxing. You probably wouldn't understand.

There is state mandates in Oklahoma and Texas for killing hogs. You can go out and shoot any hog you see and leave it to rot. It's due to huge population issues as it is not a native species and reeks havok. I want to find out when and where you can find them. I will take probably an ar15 with lots of ammo. Maybe I can find a herd and do my part by mowing them down:sniper:.

Ok I just realized some of you guys were referencing team fortress 2:E. I never really played it much.

 

[Viperidae]

There are so many things wrong with this thread.

OP: I'm with you until:

Some people need killing.

You're a moron.

So spake the man who'd never actually been to a shooting range. Seriously, practical shooting is one of the most demanding and skill intensive forms of civilian shooting - go try run a practical shotgun range without any practice and tell me it doesn't take any skill.

What? Way to totally not address his post. He pointed out your fallacious reductionism and you just sidestepped it with a 'derp you don't do it so your opinion doesn't count' fallacy.

Completely lost respect for you. I know that isn't much coming from ME of all people but Jesus Christ man. You're pretty stupid.

You're right. It isn't anything.

I find myself posting this again.

CONCEALED WEAPON VIDEO

An opinion piece. Alright. It's too bad Sigbasterd can't SHOVE A SHOTGUN DOWN HIS PANTS. Unrelated and trite. Go away.

SIG don't bother with these people they'll never understand.

No, I will never understand people who make statements like 'some people need killing.'

There is state mandates in Oklahoma and Texas for killing hogs. You can go out and shoot any hog you see and leave it to rot. It's due to huge population issues as it is not a native species and reeks havok. I want to find out when and where you can find them. I will take probably an ar15 with lots of ammo. Maybe I can find a herd and do my part by mowing them down:sniper:.

Ah, such a productive member of society. The skill, the dedication, the time, the money, the research--all of it going to good use. Probably one of the most difficult hobbies out there! Please libertarians, continue defending these folk.

 

[Sloth]

...There is Corps of Engineers land all over the place around me in almost every direction. It is public access land that you are free to hunt, shoot, 4 wheel, fish, camp etc. Thousands of acres. The spot I found requires 4-wheel drive to reach. It is used by many as it is a perfect natural gun range with a huge dirt cliff back stop. There are lots of brass casings, shells, and targets out there but I have never seen another person. It is nice and relaxing. You probably wouldn't understand.

I go hunting with mates now and then and spend probably half of my weekends in the year out of the city in the bush camping and such.

I like the skill and thrill of hunting - my mate owns a couple of bolt action rifles and a double-barrel shotgun. The only issue I have is when the firearms go above and beyond what is needed for hunting animals.

Its not like you need to pump more than two shots from a shotgun to take down a hog - if you need a shotgun with such a fire-rate it would IMO take a lot of the skill out of hunting.

 

[Bob_Marley]

What? Way to totally not address his post. He pointed out your fallacious reductionism and you just sidestepped it with a 'derp you don't do it so your opinion doesn't count' fallacy.

In case you didn't notice I wasn't responding to that part of his post - he's got his opinion on firearm engineering and I've got mine. Both are equally unlikley to change any time soon so theres no point wasting our time arguing about it - its not going to go anywhere.

I was, rather, responding to his position on what constitutes guns that are "OK" to own - All civilian recreational shooting takes place in a controlled environment and all require skill. Different kinds of skill no doubt, but writing off shotgun use as something that doesn't require "Skill, precision and practice" is utterly inaccurate.

 

[Viperidae]

Fair enough.

But I don't think the people in this thread have problems with shotguns, but automatic shortened shotguns.

 

[SIGbastard]

You guys are missing the point. It would be good to kill hogs to exinction in North America. It is a non-native species. It was introduced when Columbus sailed here. It all started from 8 hogs released in the wild.

Using a semi-auto or bolt action doesn't matter. What matters is performance. AR15's can be had that are guaranteed to shoot 1/2" MOA. That is way more accurate than most off the rack bolt action hunting rifles. You can have them from .22lr to single shot .50 BMG uppers. You can have them set up to your purposes. For hunting deer and the like in oklahoma you must use a 5 rd magazine.

Varmint hunting has no magazine restriction. Killing of these animals is encouraged to rid the habitat of them. Examples are prarie dogs, coyotes, pigs, and other vermin. You guys have no clue about hunting really. Just what you read in Field and Stream. These animals are considered pests and are overpopulated which causes strain on native animals.

 

[SIGbastard]

Oh I do have a pic of my Barrett. I was going through my photobucket account. It is old though. I don't have a scope on it right now so it just sits in the safe. I will get a really good scope for it eventually.

 

[CyberPitz]

I'm not even going to read from a few posts in. I know what some idiots are going to do. "LUL UHMERICUH" or "What will you do with it?"

None of your ****ing business, that's what.

 

[kineaesth]

IAll civilian recreational shooting takes place in a controlled environment and all require skill. Different kinds of skill no doubt, but writing off shotgun use as something that doesn't require "Skill, precision and practice" is utterly inaccurate.

Eh, I wasn't saying that shotgun target shooting doesn't require that as well. But if you own a sweet rifle and you use it for target shooting, that's cool. I see less point in owning a military-grade shotgun.

You guys have no clue about hunting really. Just what you read in Field and Stream.

>implying I read Field and Stream

SIR I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO INSULTED

 

[Krynn72]

I don't care what you liberal nancy boys think.

Why is anyone even bothering to argue after he said this. Thats pretty much a quote straight from the Rightwing Nutjob's Handbook of FOX News Slogans.

Its ****ing retarded to own either of those weapons. I don't give a shit if its your "hobby," doesnt make it any less retarded.

 

[CyberPitz]

No, you're just bitching to bitch. You have a short sightedness about this subject, so you freak. Why does it matter/your business/etc?

He owns it, he's happy, HURRAY. \o/

 

[Krynn72]

By that logic everyone should be fine with Iran and North Korea having weapons of mass destruction, so long as they only plan on using it for self defense, and keep them in a bolted down locker in their closet.

 

[SIGbastard]

Last word from me tonight guys. I never said I was going to hunt hogs with this shotgun. That would be downright scary. A shotty is not the ideal weapon.