I just had to share this pic of my registered short barrel shotgun

SIGbastard said:
Stern those statistics about guns being used against you in your home are flawed at best.
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you can't just say that statistics off a .gov website are flawed and then not tell us your reasoning for it.
 
xcellerate said:
you can't just say that statistics off a .gov website are flawed and then not tell us your reasoning for it.
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You know what I went back and read Sterns post again. I didn't pay much attention the first time because Stern is always Stern it's just best to look away.

I thought he was bringing up the time old argument that you are more likely to have your gun turn against you than you are to defend yourself. That clearly isn't what he was referring to.

Of course someone you know is more likely to hurt you than a stranger. That goes for any kind of violence including physical violence, sexual violence, violence with any sort of weapon etc. That's just the reality of the world. It's a good thing I don't leave guns laying out though in case my wife decides she doesn't want me around anymore!
 
Yeah, now she has to learn how to pick locks on the internet before springing her trap.
 
Oh look a gun control argument, imagine my surprise reading this thread.

SIG you should make a dedicated thread about your guns, I always like when you show off a new one. I personally will enforce a thread-wide rule of no gun control discussion.

That gun may not be for hunting, but that doesn't mean its only use is to kill humans. I'd love to have one of those for the simple reason that it's fun to go shooting and I bet that's a beast (and a blast) to handle.

I personally really dislike guns from a moral/principled standpoint and I've probably argued for gun control in 50 different threads on this site before but as far as I'm concerned it's better for the people and the government both to have guns than just the government to have guns. IMO it is also perfectly legitimate to own guns for the simple reason that they are a lot of fun to shoot.
 
^ Preach it to me, brother. Couldn't agree more.
 
I'm not sure if you've ever gone skeet or target shooting (or just shot the **** out of something) but it's a hell of a good time. Is leisure entertainment not a valid use of money and time? We're on a video gaming forum after all, what's the difference between having fun shooting at things that aren't real people in a virtual environment and shooting at things that aren't real people in physical reality?
 
Ennui said:
what's the difference between having fun shooting at things that aren't real people in a virtual environment and shooting at things that aren't real people in physical reality?
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As hobbies go, I can't kill people with video games?
 
You could bludgeon them to death with your computer. Individual responsibility is not a factor, it is easy to kill someone regardless of what is at your disposal.
 
Ennui said:
You could bludgeon them to death with your computer. Individual responsibility is not a factor, it is easy to kill someone regardless of what is at your disposal.
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So I guess wars are fought with guns because soldiers enjoy firing guns.
 
Viperidae said:
As hobbies go, I can't kill people with video games?
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Yeah, there is a superficial difference, but in terms of what sort of brain activity is going on (beyond simple muscle control) there's a huge swath of states that both hobbies cover. When you play a videogame you treat the world it creates as if it were real, on at least some levels. It engages your primal instincts to compete and defeat others, the thrill of the hunt, to learn, use, and master a new skill, to work with others to combat threats, and so forth.

Think about what's in between videogames and firearms - paintball. You run around environments and literally shoot at each other with extremely painful balls of paint. But we only play it because we all wear protective masks and clothing, and have at least an implicit agreement to not shoot each other in the nuts. The same applies to firearms. If we had the protection necessary to ensure our survival, we would all be hunting each other with guns as a pastime instead of video games. But nobody wears body armor daily, and even if they had the best available, it in no way guarantees your safety from bullets fired in your direction. The next best thing is to hunt animals, or shoot those clay things, or go to a firing range, in order of decreasing awesomeness.

You shoot each other in videogames because it's safe. You shoot each other in paintball because, given your mask and clothing, you're safe. You don't shoot each other with guns because almost everyone is not safe, and any safety you get/wear is only partial.
 
Viperidae said:
So I guess wars are fought with guns because soldiers enjoy firing guns.
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That's not any kind of rebuttal. Guns are expedient to the end of killing stuff. It's still the same decision whether you are pulling a trigger, swinging a bat or strangling someone. Having a gun does not make you want to kill things, it just makes it easier. You could say the exact same thing about a car. If you want to argue about something, I'm all for it, but first tell me what your point or position is exactly.
 
Ennui am I remembering wrong or didn't you used to be like on the other side of the fence in threads like this?
 
I don't believe he's arguing FOR guns.

He's arguing for the right to be able to choose what hobby you want.
I have hobbies that some of you might not find enjoyable, and I'm sure you have hobbies that I would not find enjoyable. You're all just complaining that somehow having a gun that kills people is the most evil thing in the world, and that there aren't many other hobbies that are more or just as dangerous.
 
I know what he's arguing, but I remember he was completely against owning or firing guns as a hobby.
 
Why the hell do you guys keep posting. This argument/debate about guns is gong NOWHERE. The only thing you are achieving is more arguments. Arguments that start getting personal. Let's face it no one is going to back down, they'll just come up with more ways to get their opinions across.

Let's all just accept we all have different views on the matter and respect those views, and close this thread.

I appreciate this may be an 'intelligent argument' to some, but I'm just seeing lots of 'digs' at people.

Just my opinion.
 
Lone Wolf said:
Why the hell do you guys keep posting. This argument/debate about guns is gong NOWHERE. The only thing you are achieving is more arguments. Arguments that start getting personal. Let's face it no one is going to back down, they'll just come up with more ways to get their opinions across.

Let's all just accept we all have different views on the matter and respect those views, and close this thread.

I appreciate this may be an 'intelligent argument' to some, but I'm just seeing lots of 'digs' at people.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

qq more nub
 
Stigmata said:
Yeah, there is a superficial difference, but in terms of what sort of brain activity is going on (beyond simple muscle control) there's a huge swath of states that both hobbies cover. When you play a videogame you treat the world it creates as if it were real, on at least some levels. It engages your primal instincts to compete and defeat others, the thrill of the hunt, to learn, use, and master a new skill, to work with others to combat threats, and so forth.

Think about what's in between videogames and firearms - paintball. You run around environments and literally shoot at each other with extremely painful balls of paint. But we only play it because we all wear protective masks and clothing, and have at least an implicit agreement to not shoot each other in the nuts. The same applies to firearms. If we had the protection necessary to ensure our survival, we would all be hunting each other with guns as a pastime instead of video games. But nobody wears body armor daily, and even if they had the best available, it in no way guarantees your safety from bullets fired in your direction. The next best thing is to hunt animals, or shoot those clay things, or go to a firing range, in order of decreasing awesomeness.

You shoot each other in videogames because it's safe. You shoot each other in paintball because, given your mask and clothing, you're safe. You don't shoot each other with guns because almost everyone is not safe, and any safety you get/wear is only partial.
Click to expand...

Very good explanation!


The primal instinct to kill is in everyone, games just make it more user friendly.

Just look at different playing styles of people:

-People who usually play less aggressively, try to avoid mass confrontation (snipers)
-People who like to fight in packs (the machine gun guys)
-People who like defending shit
-Batshit loonies that scream sadistic words when killing someone be it friendly or foe


Ok it's a lousy classification...but you get the picture, often how we act in games is a indicator of our mental state.
I mean surely you seen some player who likes to use flamethrowers because he like to see people burn, or torture corpses just for the **** of it.
I mean really if people like this were given authority over concentration camps it wouldn't be pretty. Society's rules keep them hinged...for a while, before they snap.

Personally i'm the defensive type...i would kill someone if there was an appropriate reason-self defense. Usually i like being more of a stealthy type in games.
And it's not just in games...but also in RL, when i trained kick-boxing i was way more of a technical/methodical fighter than a passionate, aggressive one.
I haven't killed one higher developed animal with my pellet gun (birds, mammals,...)

Those that say they are extreme pacifists scare me more, because they seem to repress such feelings as aggressiveness.
 
I love guns, but would never want to own a real one.

I find them to be aesthetically appealing. And as such I wouldn't mind owning tons of different types in airsoft or replica form.

I just have no use for the real thing however.
 
I know where I'm going when the zombie apocalypse hits.
 
I'm just gonna post this because it's kind of shocking and I don't want to make a new thread.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100309/NEWS01/3090354

This is obviously just negligence on the part of the gun owner however. Leaving it on the table where your 3 year old is playing and can easily access? Leaving it there LOADED?

****ing idiot parents.
 
Ennui said:
I'm not sure if you've ever gone skeet or target shooting (or just shot the **** out of something) but it's a hell of a good time. Is leisure entertainment not a valid use of money and time? We're on a video gaming forum after all, what's the difference between having fun shooting at things that aren't real people in a virtual environment and shooting at things that aren't real people in physical reality?
Click to expand...

Let me respond to that question by also using hyperbole. If I buy nuclear devices and keep them in my home until im ready to go down to my local nuclear funtime range and detonate a few, is that not a valid reason for owning and storing nuclear devices?

I'm not saying that shooting shit (or blowing shit up) isn't fun. Nor am I saying that having fun is not a valid use of money. I'm saying the risks involved in the owning and operating a weapon are too high for me to consider it a even moderately safe one.
 
I should be able to purchase a rocket launcher for recreational purposes
 
I don't live in the US.

To be honest though, I'm not too fond of the idea of guns. I guess having a pistol is fine, but when you are allowed shotguns, sniper rifles and machine guns, it's just too dangerous.

First mistake, last mistake. You may be a responsible citizen, but I assure you at least one out of every ten people will run into a some crisis that will compel them to commit some violent crime. I'm sure at least a few of them will go through with it, and when they see a shotgun lying there....
 
flamingdts said:
I guess having a pistol is fine, but when you are allowed shotguns, sniper rifles and machine guns, it's just too dangerous.
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Shotguns can be used for hunting and are a reasonable home-protection weapon, if not for the psychological factor alone. Threatening a criminal with a shotgun is effective enough without firing a shot. Sniper rifles are just rifles with a scope on them, and are perfectly normal for hunters or target shooters. I'm pretty sure you are not allowed to own a machine gun or any fully automatic weapon in most states. (I don't know for sure about this one but I know I always see people talking about how rifles need to be converted to semi-auto for legal ownership or use)
 
Vegeta897 said:
Shotguns can be used for hunting and are a reasonable home-protection weapon, if not for the psychological factor alone. Threatening a criminal with a shotgun is effective enough without firing a shot. Sniper rifles are just rifles with a scope on them, and are perfectly normal for hunters or target shooters. I'm pretty sure you are not allowed to own a machine gun or any fully automatic weapon in most states. (I don't know for sure about this one but I know I always see people talking about how rifles need to be converted to semi-auto for legal ownership or use)
Click to expand...

The problem is, guns like these make it a practical weapon for crime. Very intimidating when used against a criminal, even more intimidating when used against an unarmed civilian.

To be honest, it's not that I hate guns, it's just that I believe they should be there solely for the purpose of protection. One pistol per home, nothing more. When you are allowed to carry shotguns around, one small mistake is enough to take away the lives of dozens of people.

I mean imagine if you discovered your wife was cheating on you, and a gun was conveniently placed next to you. Sure you might be reasonable enough not to fire, but I'm sure two out of every ten people will be pissed off enough to pick up the gun and go super saiyan.

Bottomline is, guns for the sole purpose of protection? I'm not fond of it but I can see the reason for it. Gun used as a hobby? Far too dangerous for it's worth.
 
Originally Posted by CR0M] If time travel becomes possible in my lifetime I will be going back to drill holes in the bottom of the ****ing Mayflower.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Vegeta897 said:
What is it about stupid things people say that makes other people say even more stupid things?
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Saving countless lives over hundreds of years by sinking 102 rebellious gun-toting yankee ancestors in Plymouth Sound is stupid? If I hadn't drilled holes in The Speedwell on my next visit to the past, BILLIONS would've died. I'll be a hero, aren't I.
 
were there puritans aboard the Speedwell?

"In 1656 the Speedwell made a voyage from England to Boston, carrying a party of Quakers"

close enough. start drilling
 
KineticAesthetic said:
Hahahaha beautiful display of reductionism there, I'm very impressed. I'm sure you could explain away everything!


And just to clarify, I've got no problem with people owning certain guns. I think if I had a big-ass sniper rifle, I'd be pretty happy. Because sniping takes skill, and precision, and practice, and happens in a very controlled environment. Which is just fine.
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Just so you know, I'm cool and sometimes appreciate guns, guys.

CptStern said:
were there puritans aboard the Speedwell?

"In 1656 the Speedwell made a voyage from England to Boston, carrying a party of Quakers"

close enough. start drilling
Click to expand...

lol'd. I currently attend a Quaker college.
 
CptStern said:
wow an entire school full of women who dont put out.

"I'm saving myself for jesus!"


poor you ;)
Click to expand...

It's just a Quaker institution (read: our endowment is a bunch of old Quakers), in reality we have more Jews, Muslims and even Atheists than Quakers. Might as well mention that when it comes down to things, Quakers are one of the more liberal old Christian groups and don't universally frown on recreational sex whatsoever.
 
oh come on for a second I pictured you wearing a pilgrim hat fumbling for the keys to your girlfriend's chastity belt. stop ruining my fun with your talk about "liberal" christians (is that an oxymoron?)
 
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