If it isn't one thing, it is another.

[kirovman]

Only if you want Bush on your ass.

As far as I know you can't really go out and hunt nor go to target practice with a nuke without destroying a few villages or cities.

Hehe.

How about those guys who hunt fish with dynamite?

 

[No Limit]

Hehe.

How about those guys who hunt fish with dynamite?

They probably don't have a very high IQ.

 

[PickledGecko]

Michael Ryan - killed 16 with AK47 and other semi-auto rifle.

Thomas Hamilton - killed 17 with semi-auto handguns.

This bloke - killed 1 with an axe.

The reason guns are illegal is that very few criminals kill people with them, and even if they did, everyone else carrying them would just make mass murders easy. Far more people would be killed than saved.

 

[No Limit]

Michael Ryan - killed 16 with AK47 and other semi-auto rifle.

Ak47s are illegal, at least here.

Thomas Hamilton - killed 17 with semi-auto handguns.

Why do you assume he couldn't have gotten those guns if they were illegal? What was to stop him from going on the internet and making a bomb?

This bloke - killed 1 with an axe.

Because he wanted to kill one, he could have just as easily killed a lot more.

 

[Pericolos0]

if a gun's primary purpose is for sport, then why are they lethal? :s

 

[No Limit]

if a gun's primary purpose is for sport, then why are they lethal? :s

A lot of sport is lethal if done the wrong way.

 

[Sainku]

if a gun's primary purpose is for sport, then why are they lethal? :s

Cars are for driving but they are lethal, not a good argument even though I agree with you about guns being made to kill.

Guns are made to kill, nothing wrong with that. They are still used for sport and are quite entertaining.

 

[PickledGecko]

Why do you assume he couldn't have gotten those guns if they were illegal? What was to stop him from going on the internet and making a bomb?

Well, it was the 1987 and a very small town with very little crime. My point is, that very few people have access to guns now. Yes criminals do, but its not usually criminals who go on killing sprees. Even when an armed criminal does go out and kill people, its usually other criminals. But of course some innocents get killed, but legal guns are not going to stop this. Unless you condone the carrying of guns around at all times. But that makes it far more difficult for the police to distinguish between criminals and innocents.

Yes guns can be used for things, like axes can. But not all guns are illegal, some people do hunt, and that is an example of a gun being used as a tool. This is acceptable, but there are very tight regulations to make sure no unstable people get hold of them.

People make the argument for self defence, but is it not true that half of people killed by a gun in the home is a family member? I'm sure I heard that somewhere. Considering we dont have laws that give us carte blanch over burglers, we are only alowed to kill if our life is threatened. And considering no burglers carry guns (they are currently not needed by them as home owners dont own them), it seems pretty unnecessary.

As for target shooting as a sport, we still have .22's. But the ironic thing is, is that not the most common used weapon for murder in the US? I'm pretty sure I heard that too.

 

[No Limit]

Well, it was the 1987 and a very small town with very little crime. My point is, that very few people have access to guns now. Yes criminals do, but its not usually criminals who go on killing sprees. Even when an armed criminal does go out and kill people, its usually other criminals. But of course some innocents get killed, but legal guns are not going to stop this. Unless you condone the carrying of guns around at all times. But that makes it far more difficult for the police to distinguish between criminals and innocents.

See that is what many people don't understand; almost everyone can have access to a gun if they wanted to.

Also, in this country it is legal to carry a gun with you at all times as long as it isn't concealed.

People make the argument for self defence, but is it not true that half of people killed by a gun in the home is a family member? I'm sure I heard that somewhere. Considering we dont have laws that give us carte blanch over burglers, we are only alowed to kill if our life is threatened. And considering no burglers carry guns (they are currently not needed by them as home owners dont own them), it seems pretty unnecessary.

I heard that stat thrown a lot too but never seen any proof, I think it is false. Burglers do carry guns or knives, many bulgeries (at least in this country) turn violent when the victim is home.

As for target shooting as a sport, we still have .22's. But the ironic thing is, is that not the most common used weapon for murder in the US? I'm pretty sure I heard that too.

It is probably the most used but I doubt very many people get killed from it. A 22 is too weak to do any real damage; just causes injuries.

 

[jondy]

Dude, you guys can't really be arguing over whether axes should be banned or not, or even thinking about drawing parallels with guns. The distinction is clear

 

[No Limit]

Dude, you guys can't really be arguing over whether axes should be banned or not, or even thinking about drawing parallels with guns. The distinction is clear

How so? I already pointed out most gun crimes occur at close range. The point isn't to say axes are like guns but we are saying if someone wants to kill they will kill.

 

[Pericolos0]

Cars are for driving but they are lethal, not a good argument even though I agree with you about guns being made to kill.

Guns are made to kill, nothing wrong with that. They are still used for sport and are quite entertaining.

well yeah but its hard to make a car not lethal, eventhough companies are trying hard ;o

you have non lethal guns too you know, like airsoft and paintball guns. Why arnt they good enough if its all for the sport? Is it because of the kick you get that you are shooting with something that can kill a man?

 

[Sainku]

well yeah but its hard to make a car not lethal, eventhough companies are trying hard ;o

you have non lethal guns too you know, like airsoft and paintball guns. Why arnt they good enough if its all for the sport? Is it because of the kick you get that you are shooting with something that can kill a man?

Last time I checked deer, lions, and other such animals dont take kindly to being shot with a paintball gun. And fast flying discs dont slow down for airsoft guns.

And guns arent made for sport, they are made to kill, just like the bow and other fast flying projectile launchers. Doesnt mean they cant be used for sport.

 

[No Limit]

well yeah but its hard to make a car not lethal, eventhough companies are trying hard ;o

you have non lethal guns too you know, like airsoft and paintball guns. Why arnt they good enough if its all for the sport? Is it because of the kick you get that you are shooting with something that can kill a man?

If you shoot a real gun you will now a difference between and airsoft gun and a real one , for some reason the real gun has a bigger kick.

 

[jondy]

How so? I already pointed out most gun crimes occur at close range. The point isn't to say axes are like guns but we are saying if someone wants to kill they will kill.

There's a huge difference in psychology between shooting and stabbing. The latter is far more intimate; added to which, it isn't a binary choice.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/costknife.htm

 

[kirovman]

Hehe, this debate made me remember that Family Guy episode with the end of the world, and they set up a new society. Then they destroyed all the guns Peter Griffin had built "Why the hell would we need guns?"

Then all the little Stewie Octopus monster things came "Victory is ours!"



sorry, derailing a bit.

 

[jondy]

Yeah, the simpsons did a spinoff of that with the 'monkey hand' thing in one of their halloween specials

 

[KoreBolteR]

wait a minute.. the gun is one of the easiest way too kill people, even if its for a sport or not..

i doubt banning axes would lower the mortality rate. But legalizing guns will higher it. look at it now, majority of guns are owned by gangsters and drug dealers in the UK. most innocent civilians would not know a person who can get them one illegally! all we have too do is stop these gun imports, arrest the gangs and most of our gun problem will be over...

where as the US has a gun in every other house, it would be virtual impossible to get rid of your gun problem. guns for a sport is an excuse, if they ever get really mad at someone, they would use that gun, because it is the easiest thing too use (shoot from far away), where-as , an axe, you would have to go right up to the person to commit the murder.

 

[Bodacious]

Michael Ryan - killed 16 with AK47 and other semi-auto rifle.

Thomas Hamilton - killed 17 with semi-auto handguns.

This bloke - killed 1 with an axe.

The reason guns are illegal is that very few criminals kill people with them, and even if they did, everyone else carrying them would just make mass murders easy. Far more people would be killed than saved.

Oh yah?

18 Hijackers - Kill 3000+ with box knives

 

[jondy]

Oh yah?

18 Hijackers - Kill 3000+ with box knives

Nah, they used planes; let's ban them.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Oh yah?

18 Hijackers - Kill 3000+ with box knives

and a few planes, by an organized plan by terrorists

yeh, i can really see what your saying there.. :upstare:

 

[Bodacious]

How so? I already pointed out most gun crimes occur at close range. The point isn't to say axes are like guns but we are saying if someone wants to kill they will kill.

This is exactly my point.

 

[Bodacious]

and a few planes, by an organized plan by terrorists

yeh, i can really see what your saying there.. :upstare:

I am sorry I gave you and Jondy more intellectual credit. I should have put in my previous post that if they hijackers didn't have box knives that they wouldn't have been able to overpwer the pilots, or the rest of the passengers.

 

[KoreBolteR]

I am sorry I gave you and Jondy more intellectual credit. I should have put in my previous post that if they hijackers didn't have box knives that they wouldn't have been able to overpwer the pilots, or the rest of the passengers.

heh yeah, but first off, they would have had to get fake passports and a well worked plan,.. plus they needed a well off plan to get the knives past security.

you made it sound like those knives were the direct reason those 3000+ people died.

ohhh.. shall we ban knives now?

going back to your previous wish.. axes. no way could they have took axes onto the planes, so why ban them

 

[Pericolos0]

if the passengers on the plane would have had guns, this all wouldn't have happened.

hail guns

 

[Bodacious]

heh yeah, but first off, they would have had to get fake passports and a well worked plan,.. plus they needed a well off plan to get the knives past security.

you made it sound like those knives were the direct reason those 3000+ people died.

ohhh.. shall we ban knives now?

going back to your previous wish.. axes. no way could they have took axes onto the planes, so why ban them

1. It was easy to sneak knives onto planes. After 9/11 people were still able to sneak guns onto planes by hiding a small handgun behind a large belt buckle.

Even to this day if you knew they right people you could smuggle weapons onto a plane. Research a material called ryton. Weapons can be made from this and are completely invisible to metal detectors, yet have the stregth of steel.

2. I never wanted axes banned. Anything I said along those lines was sarcasm to show how idiotic anti gun nuts are.

 

[gcomeau]

You are forgetting protection. If you make guns illegal who will have guns? The criminals will.

Well, there's those guys in the blue (or whatever) uniforms too... they tend to have them most places even if they are illegal for the general population to be toting around.

 

[jondy]

I am sorry I gave you and Jondy more intellectual credit. I should have put in my previous post that if they hijackers didn't have box knives that they wouldn't have been able to overpwer the pilots, or the rest of the passengers.

Seriously, buddy, what are you pushing for here? I don't understand what you're trying to advocate. Licensing for axes?

Besides, saying that knives were responsible for 9/11 is just plain f'kin ridiculous; and I can't be bothered to argue in circles

 

[gcomeau]

if the passengers on the plane would have had guns, this all wouldn't have happened.

hail guns

Yeah, the planes would have crashed somewhere else when people started shooting, depressurized the cabin, and compromised the structural integrity of the fuselage.

Not to mention that pesky HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE JET FUEL.

Planes are the last place you want to have people packing firearms around on.

 

[jondy]

It wouldn't be the shooting that would've stopped said terrorists, it'd be the deterrent threat

 

[KoreBolteR]

1. It was easy to sneak knives onto planes. After 9/11 people were still able to sneak guns onto planes by hiding a small handgun behind a large belt buckle.

Even to this day if you knew they right people you could smuggle weapons onto a plane. Research a material called ryton. Weapons can be made from this and are completely invisible to metal detectors, yet have the stregth of steel.

2. I never wanted axes banned. Anything I said along those lines was sarcasm to show how idiotic anti gun nuts are.

right, by banning guns, less people are able to smuggle them onto planes. but no country in the world can ban knives.. lol, its cutlery, not a weapon intendid to kill people (unlike the gun)

if it is so easy to smuggle guns on planes after 9/11, as you say.. why didnt the terrorists smuggle them on, on 9/11, as we all know they have plenty..

 

[Bodacious]

Seriously, buddy, what are you pushing for here? I don't understand what you're trying to advocate. Licensing for axes?

Besides, saying that knives were responsible for 9/11 is just plain f'kin ridiculous; and I can't be bothered to argue in circles

1. Read post number 62

2. Do you disagree that if the hijackers didn't have box knives that 9/11 could have been prevented?

 

[Bodacious]

right, by banning guns, less people are able to smuggle them onto planes. but no country in the world can ban knives.. lol, its cutlery, not a weapon intendid to kill people (unlike the gun)

if it is so easy to smuggle guns on planes after 9/11, as you say.. why didnt the terrorists smuggle them on, on 9/11, as we all know they have plenty..

Because smuggling guns onto planse is far riskier than a box knife, that and what another poster mentioned above, if you discharge a firearm the plane is at risk exploding.

 

[CptStern]

have you guys been on a plane lately? you cant even carry a novelty pen knifeon your keychain (I'll miss that 1 inch knife)

"take me to cuba or I'll give you a superficial wound!!"

 

[jondy]

*reads post 62*

If someone wants to kill, they kill. That's your argument.

Like I said, pulling the trigger is a binary choice, whereas killing someone by stabbing/battering is a lot more intimate. Anyone look away and pull a gun trigger, it's a hairline mechanism, but to stab/batter someone with the intent of murder needs a lot more willpower behind it; read the link I posted on the psychology of using a knife with lethal force.

As for point number two - fishwire ( especially effective for holding someone hostage, much to the dismay/horror of passengers ) baton, crowbar ( shock horror, hl2 website ), hell, even a sock stuffed with a baseball

If you want to argue that passengers would've stood up to this shit, whereas knives have more of a deterrent effect, consider hostage situations

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

My skate tool got confiscated when i went on a plane...

I haven't been boarding since ;( What did they expect me to do? Slowly dismantle the plane while nobody was watching, with a tool specifically designed for skateboards?

 

[bliink]

( shock horror, hl2 website )

holy crap someone here actually mentioned the game!
you can never imagine some things...

 

[jondy]

My skate tool got confiscated when i went on a plane...

You fiend, Farrow! :O

 

[No Limit]

Like I said, pulling the trigger is a binary choice, whereas killing someone by stabbing/battering is a lot more intimate. Anyone look away and pull a gun trigger, it's a hairline mechanism, but to stab/batter someone with the intent of murder needs a lot more willpower behind it; read the link I posted on the psychology of using a knife with lethal force.

This is not true. If you are willing to kill someone you already have the will power to do it; it doesn't matter if you shoot them 5 feet away, bash them with a bat, or stab them. Please don't kill just to kill, in 99.9% of the cases the killer, in his/her mind, has a reason to do it; how they do it doesn't matter.

 

[KoreBolteR]

This is not true. If you are willing to kill someone you already have the will power to do it; it doesn't matter if you shoot them 5 feet away, bash them with a bat, or stab them. Please don't kill just to kill, in 99.9% of the cases the killer, in his/her mind, has a reason to do it; how they do it doesn't matter.

99.9% where are your 'sources' on this?

ive seen a lot of cases where the person trying to protect his property takes down a gun to injure the person, and because of the lethal power of the gun, ends up killing them, unlike the use of a shovel.. which would just make them black out.

a gun is instant! you shoot and you have no way back, and its just a move of the index finger. opposed to the knifes and axes where you would have to go right up too the person and put some will power into it, possible losing your life..

people would rather use gun than axes and shovels, because you can injure/kill them without gettin too close for them, and it only takes 1 push of a button.

therefore in the UK guns should stay banned, US should stay legal. (impossible to make guns illegal im America).