Iraq, the US & other stuff too

[not28]

tr0n needs to die.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by not28
tr0n needs to die.

Do NOT say things like that. If you persist... well

 

[Dedalus]

you know, i've just read the last few pages of this, and you guys should run the world instead of the idiots we've got running it now. seriously. write up a cv and stuff, you may get an interview.

 

[Element Alpha]

I have a somewhat interesting angle:

The difference between the US and Europe is the purpose of its governament's actions. I believe it's safe to say that Europeans think more about how they would like thinks to be in the world, while Americans think more about the world as it is today and how to deal with it. Idealism(=trying to achieve a vision) versus pragmatism(=doing what you have to do). You can apply this to the perception of responsability too: Europe has a social system that tries to take care of the less-fortunate, because it assumes life can be a bitch sometimes, and it's not always your fault when things go wrong(you aren't in complete control of what happens to you), while in the US, without a social security system, people have to take full responsability for their actions, since you only have yourself to blame if something goes wrong(you are in control of what happens to you).

I invite you to find your own examples.

By the way: Iraq didn't have the necessary resources to extract all the oil that is in its soil. I expect the US will install oilwells that are able to drain it all, making the supply of oil rise and thereby lowering prices, wich would reduce the power over the oilprice that Middle-eastern countries now have. This all under the excuse that Iraq needs to export as much oil as possible to pay for reconstruction. Mark my words.
The tension in the world will get bigger...but nevermind

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

The thing is. Oil prices wont fall by much.

Example:

When russia recently joined the oil industry with its HUGE supplies. Did the prices drop much at all. No!

Because:

The other main suppliers have an agreement where by they try and keep the price of oil steady by increasing or in this case decreasing supply.

Which means for us:

Petrol prices are still high in Britain!

 

[Element Alpha]

Yes, but you can also blame the taxes about the oilprice. It only means that selling oil gets more profitable for the governaments.

Correct, isn't it?

(I gotta go, see ya later. also, to any MOD out there, why isn't the photoshop contest votable yet?)

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by Dedalus
you know, i've just read the last few pages of this, and you guys should run the world instead of the idiots we've got running it now. seriously. write up a cv and stuff, you may get an interview.

Even me ?

 

[Gorgon]

Originally posted by marksmanHL2
The thing is. Oil prices wont fall by much.

Example:

When russia recently joined the oil industry with its HUGE supplies. Did the prices drop much at all. No!

Because:

The other main suppliers have an agreement where by they try and keep the price of oil steady by increasing or in this case decreasing supply.

Which means for us:

Petrol prices are still high in Britain!

So what are you trying to say is:

By is by killing iraqies the oil prices will fall

 

[DimitriPopov]

OPEC , your friendly neighborhood oil cartel.

 

[Element Alpha]

Ok, my last reply for a couple of houres:

So what are you trying to say is:

By is by killing iraqies the oil prices will fall

Not exactly. The thing is, words can be twisted. Facts can be put to use and manipulated to achieve goals set in advance.

It's not about killing the Iraqi's. It never was and never will be. It's about CONTROL. If you control the oil, you control money. You remember that game "dune"? With the harvesters and all? It's a little bit more complicated, with all those 'real' nations and all, but it's the same really(I know it's a game, but it's just an example). By controlling the price of oil, you are more in control of the destiny of your country. You get to be the one that decides what goes and what not. Not some foreign politician/tiran that is only interested in its own agenda.

I really have to go now. bye.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

lol


No I dont want the Iraqi people dead. Not at all.


But the war should lower prices for many other reasons i dont have time to go into.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Dedalus
you know, i've just read the last few pages of this, and you guys should run the world instead of the idiots we've got running it now. seriously. write up a cv and stuff, you may get an interview.

Even I?

 

[DimitriPopov]

Originally posted by chili pepper
The rest of the world is well aware of what the US is up to. The UN has already come down on the US for invading Iraq in the first place. The rest of the world has strongly condemned the invasion. But nothing they can do about it except complain loudly, since the US is the biggest bully on the block with the biggest gun.

Again, if you thought the invasion of Iraq was for the benefit of the Iraqi people, you are naive and mistaken. In a recent CNN poll, most Iraqis say they didn't like Saddam, but they hate Bush more and say they are worst off after the invasion. Iraqis by and large think that Bush is a liar who is no better than Saddam. They would be correct. Bush rigged the election in Florida so do you think he gives a damn about bringing democracy to Iraq? He doesn't give a damn about having it here in the US!

American troops are still dying and getting maimed on a daily basis so I don't see no great love in Iraq for Bush or the US forces in Iraq. Yeah, they sure do love us Iraq don't they? And don't give me this 'its just a few insurgents BS.' If it were just a few, we would have taken care of it a long time ago. Thats the same line of crap they gave when the Vietnam War started a war that dragged on for ten years with tens of thousands of US troops dying for nothing. The invasion may not have been solely for the benefit of the Iraqis , but it was a nice effect at the time. And now that invasion has come to pass , so it matters not what the original context was , it matters now what we make of it. And we are paying 80billion to the Iraqis. You sir are naive to think it never gets there , schools are opening , hospitials are opening , power grids are coming back online. All we need is more oversight for the reconstruction companies who are going kind of slow (November 3 Newsweek , read it). Anyway most reconstruction contracts were sub-contracted to IRAQI COMPANIES 104 out of 144 USAID contracts I believe.

But whatever just keep living in your dream fairytale world it must be easier than thinking. Let the gov't do all the thinking for you.

So I gues the Iraqis Ive seen who appreciate the invasion and are glad they dont have to worry about being snatched in the middle of the night and TORTURED TO DEATH , are made up. I guess id be pretty pissed if my resident torturing dictator was gone too. And of course some are going to be a little peeved if their coutnry was invaded. But they are not going to be upset Saddam is gone unless they were among the old elite who Saddam gave power, but you never think about that eh.


Ha! rigged the election , how many times will half-wits with nothing to argue and no proof bring that bit of bullshit up.

American troops are getting killed by guerilla fighters who attack and just go back to their daily lives. The north and south is very peaceful and friendly by comparison. We dont destroy them because we DONT WANT TO KILL CIVILIANS. I know it will be hard to accept the fact that the soldiers and politicians are human and have some concious , but maybe youll wrap your half brain around it sometime.

Hes living in the real world as am I. You have fun in Conspiracy town USA , it must suck.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

The trouble with debating this kind of thing here is that. No-one and I mean Noone knows enough to really put a credible post down. Including me.


I don't mean that as an insult. Allthough it probably looks like one.


No one can know everything.



For example I know that all this torture and stuff did go on. But I know it only happend in certain parts of the country. People in the peacefull areas are bound to be pissed that their leader is gone. Especially when they were lead to belive he was a fluffy bunny of a person.
Those who were oppresed are happy. For example from what I can tell most of the British troops are haveing little or nor real problems with sercurity because they are seen as liberators. However In the capital they think very differently.

But I think things should improve. For example on the TV the other day I saw people in a internet cafe and they can now get SKY television.
People there should come to see the rest of the worlds point of view eventually.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by marksmanHL2
But I think things should improve. For example on the TV the other day I saw people in a internet cafe and they can now get SKY television.
People there should come to see the rest of the worlds point of view eventually.

That's wonderful. The oppressed Iraqis can begin to enjoy a peaceful, and safe life.
One full of international television. It won't be too long before we start getting McDonald's' up in that Biznatch.

Anyway, G2G.

Bye!

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
That's what I was saying. I don't want to get back into the Iraq discussion; I enjoyed talking with you about the Socialism, Govt. effects, etc.

I have a bad case of Flu creeping up on me, at present. No real head for political discussion this weekend, though it has been interesting arguing about stuff. I'll kick back in when I'm a bit more focussed.

 

[chili pepper]

Like I said, US companies are profitting enormously from sales of Iraqi oil, indicated by a report that was widely published 3 weeks ago. To the tune of $4 billion so far. No conspiracy theory. The huge revenues these US companies are raking in from the Iraq war are publicly available. (ie: Cheney's oil company Haliburton recently announced record profits from 'operations' in Iraq).

Ignorant dumbf**ks.

"According to the report press release, a Christian Aid (based in Britain) investigation uncovered that "A staggering US$4 billion in oil revenues and other Iraqi funds earmarked for the reconstruction of the country has disappeared into opaque bank accounts administered by the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), the US-controlled body that
rules Iraq. By the end of the year, if nothing changes in the way this cash is accounted for, that figure will double."

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by not28
tr0n needs to die.

You got a ****ing problem with me bitch???

 

[king John I]

didn't america give iran to some country anyway? or was it a different country?

 

[ComradeBadger]

Tron, calm down, I've warned the chap.

And John, your post just confused me

 

[king John I]

i though a while ago america separated iran from pakistan and claimed it as a new country which is while there are all those wars, it was something like this.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
I have a bad case of Flu creeping up on me, at present. No real head for political discussion this weekend, though it has been interesting arguing about stuff. I'll kick back in when I'm a bit more focussed.

I hope you get to feeling better.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by king John I
i though a while ago america separated iran from pakistan and claimed it as a new country which is while there are all those wars, it was something like this.

That would be interesting, but no. No such event took place; I think you dreamt it.

 

[dfc05]

Originally posted by king John I
i though a while ago america separated iran from pakistan and claimed it as a new country which is while there are all those wars, it was something like this.

no, pakistan (along with bangladesh) got separated from india and it was by the british after colonization ended. they thought they could separate the muslims into pakistan and bangladesh and have the hindus in india, which apparently didn't work too well considering the problems between india and pakistan now.