Iraq, the US & other stuff too

EDIT: Sorry! double post, and i couldn't delete :(

(real post below)
 
A slight change of topic here, forget all the conspiracy theories for a second, can anyone honestly tell me why our (U.S.) government supports Israel so much? Honestly, why does Israel seem to dictate so much of our foreign policy, If anyone knows could you please tell me (honestly) I mean what does Israel really do for us? And why do we allow them to treat the Palestinians the way they do (ex: Just last week I read on Reuters that a young Palestinian boy was shot in the chest and killed for throwing rocks at an Israeli tank) and to my knowledge and from what I see on the news this happens a lot, they (Israel) also occupy Palestinian area in the west bank yet we say nothing. If something "anti" Israel is brought up in the UN we are quick to veto it, why do we do this?
Yes I'm aware that there are Palestinian suicide bombers striking Israel, and yes anti terror is a good thing, but isn't using your military to control innocent people and murder, and invade homes also terror on Israels part?
So really an honest question, why is our government so die hard to support Israel, what do they do for us?

EDIT: oh yeah, i won't comment on michael moore as i've never read/seen any of his stuff, at least not to my knowledge...
 
I guess it goes all the way back to religion.I dunno.....
 
Originally posted by pat_thetic
Good lord, first off how do you know Gore got more votes?
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becuase gore won the popular vote. aka ....more people voted for him.
 
Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
/me rolls eyes.
Whatever....You're a Commie, admit it. ;)
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I believe that in modern society every person no matter what their standing should be entitled to 4 basic things:- permanent shelter, food, free medical care and academic freedom. I guess if holding to those notions makes me a 'commie' then colour me Red, meanwhile carry on ignoring your poor, illiterate, starving and homeless.
 
He was making light of the issue.

Honestly, come on mate, you knew that.

Yeah, and in Britain free health care is there, but it's bad healthcare... but it's free... but you get what you pay for... it's confusing... and difficult.
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
A slight change of topic here, forget all the conspiracy theories for a second, can anyone honestly tell me why our (U.S.) government supports Israel so much? Honestly, why does Israel seem to dictate so much of our foreign policy, If anyone knows could you please tell me (honestly) I mean what does Israel really do for us? And why do we allow them to treat the Palestinians the way they do (ex: Just last week I read on Reuters that a young Palestinian boy was shot in the chest and killed for throwing rocks at an Israeli tank) and to my knowledge and from what I see on the news this happens a lot, they (Israel) also occupy Palestinian area in the west bank yet we say nothing. If something "anti" Israel is brought up in the UN we are quick to veto it, why do we do this?
Yes I'm aware that there are Palestinian suicide bombers striking Israel, and yes anti terror is a good thing, but isn't using your military to control innocent people and murder, and invade homes also terror on Israels part?
So really an honest question, why is our government so die hard to support Israel, what do they do for us?

EDIT: oh yeah, i won't comment on michael moore as i've never read/seen any of his stuff, at least not to my knowledge...
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If america withdrew it's support from Israel then the surrounding Arab nations would invade, because of the bad blood over the palestinian issue. It would be a race war, and ultimately result in the extermination of the israeli people. Given the history, both america and Europe feel obliged to stop this from happening.

Subsequently there is no way that America or the UN will ever withdraw support from Israel. However I do think that the israeli government consistently abuses the umbrella of protection that covers them to carry out provocative and questionable acts that would ordinarily be condemned by both America and the UN where it another nation. Whilst Sharon leads the israeli parliment there will never be any prospect of peace in the middle east.
 
i wonder what jesus would do... (jesus was an arrab, so why the hell is he white?)

*see sig*
 
Originally posted by mrBadger
He was making light of the issue.

Honestly, come on mate, you knew that.

Yeah, and in Britain free health care is there, but it's bad healthcare... but it's free... but you get what you pay for... it's confusing... and difficult.
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I always finds the 'lightness' creeps in whenever people don't have an answer :dozey: If people are going to wave flags, they have to be prepared that other people are going to burn them down :devil: .
 
Argh, I just looked in on this thread. I have to say somthing.

British health care is bad. But Not as bad as most people make out!
Look, people are NEVER happy when it comes to public services. Because there is allways something that could be improved. Even if it was near perfect then people would still complain. Its a fact of life, things are never as bad as they seem to be.
Second It is fairly bad like I said. But dont god damn blame blair. He isnt my favourite guy in the world. Far from it!. But this government has actually increased spending on healthcare after years and years of the torys Cutting bk hopeing the private sector would take over making things easier for them!
And now because of the war and everything the conservatives may get into power again. Which is BAD news for Britain (All opinions just so you dont flame me :p).

From what I can see all the conservatives seem to do when they get into power is start things going wrong so people get annoyed vote labour and then labour get the rap because everythings still shitty for a while, then they leave because its not possible to correct all the problems they were lumped with and it all starts again. With things getting progresively worse over time! Its Expodential decline!


Thats why I would ideally vote Lib Dem. Because they are honest and it means people that the conservatives would be out the window.
BUT I would probbably vote Labour anyway because they are more likely to succeed!

God, This countries gona fall appart soon. :'(
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
A slight change of topic here, forget all the conspiracy theories for a second, can anyone honestly tell me why our (U.S.) government supports Israel so much? Honestly, why does Israel seem to dictate so much of our foreign policy, If anyone knows could you please tell me (honestly) I mean what does Israel really do for us? And why do we allow them to treat the Palestinians the way they do (ex: Just last week I read on Reuters that a young Palestinian boy was shot in the chest and killed for throwing rocks at an Israeli tank) and to my knowledge and from what I see on the news this happens a lot, they (Israel) also occupy Palestinian area in the west bank yet we say nothing. If something "anti" Israel is brought up in the UN we are quick to veto it, why do we do this?
Yes I'm aware that there are Palestinian suicide bombers striking Israel, and yes anti terror is a good thing, but isn't using your military to control innocent people and murder, and invade homes also terror on Israels part?
So really an honest question, why is our government so die hard to support Israel, what do they do for us?

EDIT: oh yeah, i won't comment on michael moore as i've never read/seen any of his stuff, at least not to my knowledge...
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no offence to jews,but that may be because, many "bigger" U.S. politicians ..dunno how many though, are jews.

but then, it simply also may be, that israel also has nuclear weapons and in their mind they are still very shocked(?) due to auschwitz..etc and a 2000 year old massada story. they never want to happen such a thing again. i can imagine, surrounded by potential enemys. they "could be forced"/may see no other solution than using their nuclear weapons.
 
Ah good point, (also I meant no offense to any Israelis or Jews with my post it was an honest question)
 
Israel is like the U.S.'s agent in the middle east. It also seems to be a tradition thing that the US should support Israel. Isreal would most likely have some extremelly major problems if the US did not provide for them and it would also mean way less of a presence in the middle east. Which at the moment is something the US really wants to have.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
I always finds the 'lightness' creeps in whenever people don't have an answer :dozey: If people are going to wave flags, they have to be prepared that other people are going to burn them down :devil: .
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I have answers, but I was only trying to be friendly.
If you want to be a giant ass, and throw in rude comments, go ahead.

I don't ignore the poor, hungry, etc. That's just more rhetoric being churned out to make others look bad. I work hard for my money, not to have some bum come up and harass me at a stop light for it. I can also say it's quite un-nerving when you're walking down the street, and someone comes out of nowhere asking for a ride to a place 1.5 hrs away. And when I say asking, I mean in "your-face-and-won't-let-you-go-one-about-your-business" asking. I pay my taxes so children can have at least decent teaching facilities, not so some lazy crack-head can feed his/her addiction.

I believe in helping the weak, not the lazy. I work my ass off to pay my bills, not to pay someone elses.<--This is where you're idea of being entitled to a household is shot down.) Though I don't like boasting about my personal interactions, here's a few things I do:
I enjoy giving money, clothing, food, etc to GoodWill - Not the South Central Projects. Every year I give my old toys, that I still manage to find, to "Toys for Tots."
And in the past I've read to Kindergarteners. So if you want to say I ignore the poor, illiterate, yadda-yadda-yadda; You're quite mistaken. But let's look at this though; I love my capitalist country, and sometimes enjoy it's commercialist overtones. I enjoy going to Chevron and buying Monster energy drinks. I love renting/buying games for my "evil corporate" Xbox. And you know what, I even enjoy movies...OMG!

The rest of your ideas of entitlement don't need to be shot down, which that one didn't either - I just thought I'd get rid of the dumbest thing I could.

Capitalism gives me/you the freedom to make something better of myself/yourself. Why wouldn't you want that?

BTW: Isreal has not done provocative acts. After the war ended, there was minimal peace. Then a f*cking sick terrorist took out a cafe...then another, then a bus, etc. Who's side are you on, a nation defending it's civilians, or terrorists killing brides the nights before their weddings?
 
wow... to think my big titted woman that america is thread spawned such a debate... MAKE IT STICKY
 
Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
BTW: Isreal has not done provocative acts. After the war ended, there was minimal peace. Then a f*cking sick terrorist took out a cafe...then another, then a bus, etc. Who's side are you on, a nation defending it's civilians, or terrorists killing brides the nights before their weddings?
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I am on the side of the Palestinians, give them their land back, get them out of the slums they live in now. Yes the suicide bombers use very brutal methods to get their point across, but people always seem to forget the step after that. The retaliation by the Israelis. Apaches are sent to fire missles into housing areas, bulldozers come and destroy buildings and now this wall that is being built, these are all fueling the war as well.

Sorry, i had a very bias guy come in for general studies, he was from "Friends of Israel" and he used such emmotive langauge when describing the suicide bombings and always put them in a bad light. He managed to miss out the whole retaliation, and when my friend started to question him about this, he was saying stuff like "no, i won't accept your opinion, it has no basis in this argument" when it blatently did, the whole class including the teachers agreeing on this
 
It's not like the Israelis are targeting civilians, where as Palestinians are. The Jews need their own land, otherwise we'll see another genocide...but I guess that's what you want. Anyway; it's been almost 60 years. I think the Palestinians should've gotten their act together by now.:dozey:

Remember, they're surrounded my Extremists, Anti-Jew nations. If we pull out, or push them out; they'll surely become closer to extinction than before.

I shall return to this conversation after I get back from the store. Therefor, I won't be able to defend myself for the next hour.

L8r!
 
I didn't say I was on anyones side, I wanted to know why our government supports Israel to the point that it does. Military action is terrorism with a politcally correct spin on it, so both sides are wrong in this argument either way you look at it. Killing each other over land what a stupid concept, I don't care how sacred that dirt is, in the end its just F*cking dirt

EDIT: and you say Israel is just defensive not offensive, well if you were keeping up with the news a few months ago when the peace plan was going good and nothing was happeing then israeli apaches fired missles into a cars they said were carrying terrorists, after that the suicide bombings started again
 
Originally posted by Murray_H
I am on the side of the Palestinians, give them their land back, get them out of the slums they live in now. Yes the suicide bombers use very brutal methods to get their point across, but people always seem to forget the step after that. The retaliation by the Israelis. Apaches are sent to fire missles into housing areas, bulldozers come and destroy buildings and now this wall that is being built, these are all fueling the war as well.

Sorry, i had a very bias guy come in for general studies, he was from "Friends of Israel" and he used such emmotive langauge when describing the suicide bombings and always put them in a bad light. He managed to miss out the whole retaliation, and when my friend started to question him about this, he was saying stuff like "no, i won't accept your opinion, it has no basis in this argument" when it blatently did, the whole class including the teachers agreeing on this
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Palestinians and arabs should have never went to war with them.Israel was a small country and that was all jews wanted.Then all of a sudden all the arabs in that area attacked them and in war you do not give your land back.So the Palestinians lost it fare and square.They should have never attacked them in the first place.So it pretty much there fault they lost there land.Also thank the British and French to. :)
 
Originally posted by Innervision961
after that the suicide bombings started again
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The key word is AFTER! After meaning there was a cause, in which it was the suicide bombings...and you even said it yourself.

If someone starts punching you in the face and doesn't stop after you've tried to walk away, what would you do? I'm pretty sure it's far from standing there and taking it.

But hey, continue to be typical and caloused. It's not your family/friends, so why care, right?
And it's not like Jews are human beings.
/end sarcasm.
You people make me sick.
 
Originally posted by Tr0n
Palestinians and arabs should have never went to war with them.Israel was a small country and that was all jews wanted.Then all of a sudden all the arabs in that area attacked them and in war you do not give your land back.So the Palestinians lost it fare and square.They should have never attacked them in the first place.So it pretty much there fault they lost there land.Also thank the British and French to. :)
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Sorry if something like this ihas been posted before; I didn't read through the whole thread but...
I kinda sympathized with the Palestinians since they lost their land in the first place. In history class, when we learned about how the Europeans promised the Middle Eastern countries that they would be able to have their land after World War I and then they just turned right around and gave the land that they promised them to the Jews in the Balfour Declaration, I always felt kinda bad for the other countries since they got the bad end of the deal. Also if I remember correctly the Balfour Declaration said that the Jews weren't supposed to interfere with the Palestinians that were already living on the land or push them off.
And then in Cultures class (my school makes kids not zoned to the school take a "cultures class" which is now basically where you learn about the Indian and Arabic cultures) the Arabic teacher, whom I think used to live in Palestine, was talking about how she and her family had to leave, which was really kinda sad.

edit: Ok, quoting from a letter from Britain to the Arabs Oct. 24, 1915 when they wanted help from the Arabs to fight Turkey in WWI:
"Great Britain is prepared to recognise and support the independence of the Arabs in all the regions within the limits demanded by the Sherif of Mecca."
"Great Britain will guarantee the Holy Places against all external aggression and will recognise their inviolability."

And then the Balfour Declaration, Nov 2 1917:
"establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.... nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."

This just really annoys me since if you look at what Britain was promising to people the Arabs should have actually been able to keep their land since the British used the promise of the land to get the Arabs to support them... argh.
 
It is sad, but sometimes you have to take desperate measures when even 12-13 yr olds are bombing bus stops. Let's keep in mind who started the major conflict though, Palestinian terrorists. Terrorists hide in civilian clothing, and strike without warning or true provocation. They either die without honor, or run without dignity. There is no light to these attacks.

As for this whole land fuss; They have that entire region, why can't the Jews have one small chunk of land? And why can't you people see that they're murdering babies? I mean ,civilians get killed in Israels retaliations, but they aren't the targets...where as terrorists target civilians. I feel no remorse for the Palestinians, other than the actual, non-extremists who bear the punishment...thanks to a bunch of monters.
 
"they have that entire region"
but the area around Israel has more fertile land than the desert and they have an advantage with their crop system since they have the technology to implement drip irrigation and all that; and besides they had gotten a lot of foreign aid to help them with their agriculture and their military, and you wonder if the palestinians had been able to keep the land given them before the balfour declaration, how much would other nations have given them? it's kinda sad to see that israel can prosper and have all the advanced technology and the palestinians are sitting there and they don't have anywhere to go except maybe farther into the desert into lands that's not their homeland yet they don't get foreign aid helping them.

edit: and don't be offended if you're arguing about the violence going on; i'm not defending their violent actions--I think violence is wrong on both sides, I'm just trying to look from a historical perspective
 
Maybe they should quit being hostile,that would be a step in the right direction. Once they have friendly relations, they could share technology...but this will never happen.
 
wow ghost you totally twisted my words around to make me look like a bad guy didn't you, well guess what if you act like the palestinians aren't people, that makes me sick so same to you buddy
 
I never said they weren't people...I even said I felt remorse for innocent
Palestinians, because I do. It's sad they have to bear the weight of the actions of others... But I don't feel remorse for those whole follow Arafat, and I don't find the Israeli military to be this menacing juggernaut - like a lot of people think it is.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Subsequently there is no way that America or the UN will ever withdraw support from Israel.
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I imagine the UN would, but not the US. Then again, our next president may be a lap dog for the UN...which would almost certainly be bad news.
 
I'd like to make a few statements you guys seem to have missed:

-60 years ago, the land now known as Israel was a desert, plain and simple. The israelis made it into what it is today. The palestinian people where living like nomads, in tents, and structures that can only be labeled as ghetto's. They don't live any worse than their grandparents were back then. I believe myself they should leave all this hatred behind and move on, start building their future instead of continuously blaming the past.

-The reason why the US is so involved with Israel, is that things would escalate to an incredible level if it wasn't so. And don't think Israel is the one to be worried. Israel has the best trained, most experienced army in the world(don't argue here, it's like that). Did you know that every single man with Israelian nationality has to stay in the army for 6 years? Woman "only" have to be in the army for 3 years. Every single israelian is a military, trained by the best army in the world. I don't think a full scale war would be in favor of the Arab nations. The US is involved to make sure something like that never happens. In '67, there was a war, between Israel and about 5 Arab countries. This war lasted exactly six days. The Arab countries never saw it coming. Their entire military infrastructures were destroyed, as well as any road long and broad enough to allow planes to take off. At the end, they were calling for the US to make it stop. You don't joke around with the Israeli army.

-Israel keeps claiming land from the palestinian territories. They claim they have to. Since this summer, they have built a wall in Jerusalem, around the Arab part of the city(east). They have also built huge fences along the borders, always a few miles/kilometers inside the palestinian territory. They state it is for security reasons, so that no short/mid-range weapons could be fired towards Israeli territory. But the truth is that they are taking land at a slow rate, tree by tree, rock by rock. They don't deport anyone, everybody is free to stay. But the Israeli administration makes it very hard for Palestinians. They continuously have to report, fill in papers, get passes, ask for this and ask for that, before they're allowed to do anything in full legality. It's a daily harrassement against the palestinians, no doubt about it.

My conclusion:
No party involved is right. In other words both Israeli and Palestinian sides are completely mistaken. They both should move on. Only one real problem remains for this to happen: TRUST
Both sides don't trust eacht other. Wether it's about a peace treaty or a casual handshake among civilians. I don't see how this is going to change, but it must, if future massacres are to be avoided.

I'd like everyone to realise that people over there are living in constant danger(both sides), and that they don't take it lightly. A lot of blood has been shed, and the order of the day is not a kind one. Tolerance is a word that isn't mensionned to often in that region.
 
Also:
What's so holy about the Koyoto treaty? I'd love to know, becuase in my mind, enviromentallism is another bandwagon.
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A bandwagon? Excuse you??!
Do you realise that at the rate we're going, in about 50 years we'll have a GIANT wake-up call?! You cannot predict in anyway what will happen due to the effects of global warming, but let me try to draw a picture for you:
-Acid rain: makes entire crops useless, because of heavy metals being drawn into vegetables
-ozon: protecting us from bad (ultra-violet) light emmitted by the sun.
*to much ozon=overheating
*not enough ozon=direct exposure to the sun
-water getting hotter: Water is good for 2/3rd of the earth's surface.
*pole caps melting: waterlevel rises.
*corals emit toxic gases: if water temp. keeps rising(to approx. 20°C), the corals in the oceans(there are coralcrops with surfaces larger than Australia) will start emitting a toxic gas, known to increase the ozon by a margin far greater than CO/CO² actually does. If you heard about snow-ball effects, well this is the motherqueen of all snow-ball effects.

I'm not talking about stupid vegeterians here, I'm talking about preserving the planet for future generations.

YOU DON'T MESS WITH THE CLIMATE WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES!

Wether the consequences will be GOOD (sub-tropical climate for everyone without a downside) or BAD (appocalipse) is not predictible, but I know where I'm betting my money on.
So just keep acting like you don't know, and don't forget to tell your grand-children about the opinion you had so long ago. Look 'em in the eyes when you tell them.
 
I do know the facts my friend, I already knew those. My point is: life goes on, the earth doesn't just randomly, there have been climate changes before... we don't know enough yet.
 
i agree with element alpha about the environmentalism stuff; i think it's important that we look at what's happening and then see how much human activity is contributing to that. sure, climate changes have occurred in the past so even though data studies show the strong correlation between carbon dioxide released in the atmosphere after the industrial revolution and increase in global temperatures; you could debate that it's a natural climate fluctuation but a lot of scientists would probably agree that the human-induced release of carbon dioxide through burning of fossil fuels, deforestation, etc. is also contributing to it. i think it's kinda bad that we're still so dependent on fossil fuel resources and not giving more promotion to alternative, renewable energy sources (like wind, solar power) when the technology's out there but we're just not using it.
i think the ozone depletion is definitely human-caused because human-produced chemicals are pretty much at the root of the problem. the cfc's that we were putting out in the atmosphere through refrigerants, aerosols, etc. were thought to be stable; turns out they were stable for a few years and now have accumulated around the poles and are reacting with the ozone to break it down, leaving the problem now with the ozone holes. and the bad part about it is that, even though cfc's are now banned, there's still a lot of them in the atmosphere since it takes so long for them to react, so the ozone depletion isn't even over yet.
 
Ironic thing is though, greenhouse gases could be the key to our survival on another planet. Releasing shitloads of them into the atmospheres of planets such as Mars could warm up them up suffciently over a number of years to sustain life (granted with water and oxgen etc.)
 
Originally posted by Element Alpha
-Israel keeps claiming land from the palestinian territories. They claim they have to. Since this summer, they have built a wall in Jerusalem, around the Arab part of the city(east). They have also built huge fences along the borders, always a few miles/kilometers inside the palestinian territory. They state it is for security reasons, so that no short/mid-range weapons could be fired towards Israeli territory. But the truth is that they are taking land at a slow rate, tree by tree, rock by rock. They don't deport anyone, everybody is free to stay. But the Israeli administration makes it very hard for Palestinians. They continuously have to report, fill in papers, get passes, ask for this and ask for that, before they're allowed to do anything in full legality. It's a daily harrassement against the palestinians, no doubt about it.
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Ironically the same sort of shit that the Nazi's pulled back in the 1930's.
 
Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
I have answers, but I was only trying to be friendly.
If you want to be a giant ass, and throw in rude comments, go ahead.

I don't ignore the poor, hungry, etc. That's just more rhetoric being churned out to make others look bad. I work hard for my money, not to have some bum come up and harass me at a stop light for it. I can also say it's quite un-nerving when you're walking down the street, and someone comes out of nowhere asking for a ride to a place 1.5 hrs away. And when I say asking, I mean in "your-face-and-won't-let-you-go-one-about-your-business" asking. I pay my taxes so children can have at least decent teaching facilities, not so some lazy crack-head can feed his/her addiction.

I believe in helping the weak, not the lazy. I work my ass off to pay my bills, not to pay someone elses.<--This is where you're idea of being entitled to a household is shot down.) Though I don't like boasting about my personal interactions, here's a few things I do:
I enjoy giving money, clothing, food, etc to GoodWill - Not the South Central Projects. Every year I give my old toys, that I still manage to find, to "Toys for Tots."
And in the past I've read to Kindergarteners. So if you want to say I ignore the poor, illiterate, yadda-yadda-yadda; You're quite mistaken. But let's look at this though; I love my capitalist country, and sometimes enjoy it's commercialist overtones. I enjoy going to Chevron and buying Monster energy drinks. I love renting/buying games for my "evil corporate" Xbox. And you know what, I even enjoy movies...OMG!

The rest of your ideas of entitlement don't need to be shot down, which that one didn't either - I just thought I'd get rid of the dumbest thing I could.

Capitalism gives me/you the freedom to make something better of myself/yourself. Why wouldn't you want that?

BTW: Israel has not done provocative acts. After the war ended, there was minimal peace. Then a f*cking sick terrorist took out a cafe...then another, then a bus, etc. Who's side are you on, a nation defending it's civilians, or terrorists killing brides the nights before their weddings?
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Er, if everyone had a house, then you wouldn't have bums dude. You seen to have problems with cause and effect in your arguments. Before the collapse of communism there was no homelessness in Russia, nowadays moscow averages 120,000 homeless on it's streets. They send crews around the Metro stations in the mornings to drag away the frozen corpses during the winter. Hurrah to capitalism!!

Don't mistake me though there is a wonderful capitalist country out there, that I have great admiration for. It has a democratic government, clean streets, low crime, actively enforces a policy on recycling and low fuel emmissions and encourages it's citizens to educate themselves, and despite the fact that every householder has semi automatic weapons as a result of national service suffers from hardly any gun crime......... that countries name is Switzerland.

As regards israel, I'm with element alpha on that issue.
 
Originally posted by Murray_H
Ironic thing is though, greenhouse gases could be the key to our survival on another planet. Releasing shitloads of them into the atmospheres of planets such as Mars could warm up them up suffciently over a number of years to sustain life (granted with water and oxgen etc.)
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Terra-forming Mars would take centuries to achieve.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Terra-forming Mars would take centuries to achieve.
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That shouldnt stop us , it may take time , but it may be necessary to preserve this planet. As long as we can figure a way to make the beginning steps automated (Until life is possible on the surface with oxygen and such) then we should definetly go. IMHO.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Terra-forming Mars would take centuries to achieve.
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And how do you know? Do you work for NASA, or the Govt. at all?

I doubt it.:dozey:
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Er, if everyone had a house, then you wouldn't have bums dude.
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If someone wants to live out on the street, and be lazy, that's on them. I don't see why my tax dollars should help buy some some friggin' lazy's house, when I could donate that money to starving Cambodians. Adults in America can have the chance to make something of themselves, oppressed Cambodians don't.

Cuase and Effect nothing. The point is that people should work for things, not have them handed out to them. You can't blame capitalism because someone doesn't want to put out the effort.

BTW: You failed to mention just how many people Stalin killed...not to mention how many have died at the hands of Communists leaders period.

For those of you who are informed; Stalin ordered, and supported, the deaths of over 40 million Russians. 40 million...I bet if they had never been killed, there would have been plenty on the streets.

And one more thing; Had Russia never gotten involved in Communism, they wouldn't have these problems with conversion. I don't see Special Services dragging frozen corpses off the streets of America, do you?
 
Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
Add how do you know? Do you work for NASA< or the Govt. at all?

I doubt it.:dozey:
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Please prove me wrong oh mightly moderator :upstare:

You think it can be done in ten minutes? please I'll put on the kettle and wait while you work wonders :dozey:

With regard to how to terraform, well there is plenty of Carbon dioxide on Mars, so it certainly would be possible to grow plant life there and gradually that would alter the atmosphere. The key issue is in keeping the plant life alive given the lack of water and shield it from the present levels of solar radiation (the Catch 22 of the atmosphere problem). Basically you'd have to build greenhouses up near the ice caps to start the process off. But from a resourcing viewpoint it would take a phenomenal amount of time and dedication. Centuries would be a generous gestimate.
 
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