Is spanking a legitimate way of Discipline

i couldn't bring myself to smack a kid, even if they've done wrong. but i'd shout the shit out of em, and probably take away their toys until they admitted they were sorry or had learned their lesson. although that might feck them up psychologically i guess..
 
yeah, I just called social services, you're never going to be a father ever.
 
I got the wooden spoon alot... actually broke one too... and I laughed about it. *shrug*
When I was in trouble, I knew my parents were serious when I heard them open the drawer with the wooden spoon in it and I would try to A) Hide or B) go and beg forgiveness.

LOL Its funny now that I think about it.
 
Ok, here is what i think about spanking....


In nature, physical senses are generally what give us a sense of what we should and shouldn't do. ie I won't step into that volcano again because i still feel the pain from last time.

So, when a baby (and I'm talking up to about 1.5 - 2 years old) does something it shouldn't you give it a sharp slap and it will then realise that doing that is not good for it (they don't really have a real sense of right or wrong when they are that young)

Anyway, the alternative to smacking is shouting or just telling them off, and that hits somewhere else it will probably stay with it for weeks, because it doesn't yet fully understand why you are being like that.


Anyway, i find it hard to be very articulate when I've just got out fo bed (yes, i did get up late) but I'm sure my point gets across.
 
smacking as it is called in England is perfectly healthy. If done too much then it can be abuse but for the most part a rap on the back of the legs can be a quick and decisive way of telling a kid to stop being such a prick.
 
Playful spanking between adults is fine, and can be erotic. Spanking kids is just.. wrong ;(
 
NO IT IS NOT ! In my opinion.

Yakuza said:
1) Dealing with an issue that could have life or death circumstances. My son doesn't run out into the street in fact he waits at the curb for my hand. Why? because I let him know real quick that this is not okay.He doesn't understand WHY he shouldn't run into the street, just that if he does I will spank him.
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So what will he learn? To obey authority without understanding and questioning it....reminds me of some times in my country, where everyone obeyed auhority without asking questions.... :(
 
ComradeBadger said:
Playful spanking between adults is fine, and can be erotic. Spanking kids is just.. wrong ;(
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you're 16 goddamnit, act like it :(

you need to turn those pimp-juice faucets down, young man!
 
nothing quite beats the satisfaction of getting drunk and beating on those weaker than you, if the story of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn taught us anything it's that.
 
Learn to drive, it's soooo fun.

Plus he isn't too young, in Americas he might be but in England we have wonderfully tolerant rules regarding drunken teenagers.
 
I'm talking about the whole 'adults spanking' etc I mean come on :| studies :(
 
Dr.Spock said:
Then as in before not after lol. So quick to argue aren't ya.
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I have two kids I have been doing this for almost 8 years. Children at the age of 3 are uncapaple of reason.

Next time your with a 3 year old sit him down and explain to him why running in the street is somthing that can be very bad for you.

I have done this over and over not just with my kids but kids with other members of my family. If you leave children to reason your destined to frustration.
 
well thank you badger, you have sucesfully turned this thread R-rated :P
 
Alsi said:
NO IT IS NOT ! In my opinion.



So what will he learn? To obey authority without understanding and questioning it....reminds me of some times in my country, where everyone obeyed auhority without asking questions.... :(
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Moral responsibility comes later when the child is capable understanding why he is doing something.

Yes he should obey my authority with out question. I lay down the law for his own benifit. I tell him its not okay to play around the stove whether its turned on or off simply cause I dont want him getting used to the fact that it would be oaky to play around it. Its for his saftey that the law says dont play by the stove.
 
You can't explain everything to a kid some things they heave to find out themselves.

But u won't help 'em with violence ..... If I had kids, i would try to teach them well and that includes that violence is NOT godd in anyway (except that erotic spanking between adults :burp: )
So why should I use somthing i am against?
 
The point being made by "pro-smackers" is that you can't just explain the situation to a child because it simply wont be able to understand your reasoning.
 
Spanking has its place, if properly done.

The main problem is how a parents deal out spanking, if the kid does something and the parent flips out and spanks the kid out of anger then that merely teaches the kid to respond out of emotion.. nor should the parent humiliate there child by spanking in front of people.
The purpose of a spanking is a disciplinary action, not as an emotional "you better not to that again" reaction. A child should know ahead of time whether something he does with result in a spanking, and the parent should stick to their word. This will let the child know that a parent means what he/she says and help clearly define boundaries.

But spanking should be just a small piece of disciplin. It should be combined first of all with open communication, other forms of discipline, and most importantly reconciliation with the child.
 
Yakuza said:
Moral responsibility comes later when the child is capable understanding why he is doing something.

Yes he should obey my authority with out question. I lay down the law for his own benifit. I tell him its not okay to play around the stove whether its turned on or off simply cause I dont want him getting used to the fact that it would be oaky to play around it. Its for his saftey that the law says dont play by the stove.
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I talked about, what your child is learning if you beat him. "If I do this or that - my father will beat me"
Not "If i will touch the hot stove it will be very painfull".

So it may happen, that once u are not present he may think "OK he is not around and won't notice it - so i don't get punished"

In my opinion they need to learn why some things are bad or wrong.

And if you are not willing to tell them (over and over again - till u get mad) then don't become parents.
 
BY alehm: A child should know ahead of time whether something he does with result in a spanking, and the parent should stick to their word. This will let the child know that a parent means what he/she says and help clearly define boundaries.
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But can u name a few things that are "worth" spanking?
I can't think of anything right now... :rolling:
 
Alsi said:
You can't explain everything to a kid some things they heave to find out themselves.

But u won't help 'em with violence ..... If I had kids, i would try to teach them well and that includes that violence is NOT godd in anyway (except that erotic spanking between adults :burp: )
So why should I use somthing i am against?
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Violence? remember I made the comment that you should spank your kids out of anger or frustration.

Also if your child is running torwards a busy street. What motivation would he have in listening to you as you yell STOP. Do you think the three year old will say to himself, "I should obey my father because of his great wisdom in all situations." Maybe when he is like 25 years old.

I dont enjoy spanking my kids, and I always try and show them that I love them after the get spanked.

How ever in some situations I let them make their own choices but only in situations were they wont seriously hurt themselvs or others.

My son likes to stand on chars, I ask him to sit because he might fall. He laughs and continues then guess what, he falls.
 
under no circumstances will I ever spank my son ..it teaches nothing except violence is ok
 
Alsi said:
I talked about, what your child is learning if you beat him. "If I do this or that - my father will beat me"
Not "If i will touch the hot stove it will be very painfull".

So it may happen, that once u are not present he may think "OK he is not around and won't notice it - so i don't get punished"

In my opinion they need to learn why some things are bad or wrong.

And if you are not willing to tell them (over and over again - till u get mad) then don't become parents.
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Your right, but again children at 2-3 even 5 are un able to understand why.

And touching it when your not around only realy begins at two points.

Your desciplin for a particular action is not consistant. This will drive your kids insane if you spank them one minute for somthing then turn your head the next.

Your child is old enough to understand the why.

Like my daughter, she is almost 8 years old. I dont spank her, thats ridiculas. However once I started making her stand with her face in the corner I noticed a drastic change in her behavor. She started doing better i school and socialy (she got along with her friends better).

I am not saying you have to spank your kids. The trick to parenting is knowing your child. And what gets their obedeince at an early age. Something that makes a 2 year old Stop dead in his tracks as he runs toward the street.
 
CptStern said:
under no circumstances will I ever spank my son ..it teaches nothing except violence is ok
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How is spanking Violent.

I guess my questions is what is your deffinition of Violence.
 
you shamed her into behaving better ...that stays a lifetime and can result in poor social skills later on in life


Yakuza said:
And what gets their obedeince at an early age.
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the threat of violence?

My dad smacked me around a bit (spanking mostly no punches) but by the time I was 15 I stood up to him when he tried to hit me and I punched him (till this day I regret it) ...this is what I learned from all the years of spanking: you can settle problems with violence.


edit: spanking is violent to the child ...you may not see that but your child does .."I wont do this cuz dad may hit me" You're not teaching him that doing something has a direct consequence. You're teaching them the consequence of misbehaving is being hit ...so they really are learning nothing
 
CptStern said:
you shamed her into behaving better ...that stays a lifetime and can result in poor social skills later on in life




the threat of violence?

My dad smacked me around a bit (spanking mostly no punches) but by the time I was 15 I stood up to him when he tried to hit me and I punched him (till this day I regret it) ...this is what I learned from all the years of spanking: you can settle problems with violence.


edit: spanking is violent to the child ...you may not see that but your child does .."I wont do this cuz dad may hit me" You're not teaching him that doing something has a direct consequence. You're teaching them the consequence of misbehaving is being hit ...so they really are learning nothing
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My son stops dead in his tracks when I say stop. I only say it when he is running toward the street or about to realy injure himself. I also dont spank them for every misbehaavment. Only the ones I feel realy strong about. My son throws himself on thr ground from time to time. I take him to his room for a time out. He is not allowed to come out until he clams down and quits his screaming. I dont spank him for throwing fits.

I was spanked and I never thought it was violent. I consider Violence a "malicious" attempt to harm a person or persons.



Hmm better standing in a corner now then in an 8x10 cell later.

It has nothing to do with shame. I love her and she knows it, she also knows that there are consequinces for her actions. Yelling and screaming and disobedeince gets her 10 mins in the corner. If she persists its 20, and I havent had to do 20 mins yet, she is a quick learner.

shame ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shm)
n.

A painful emotion caused by a strong sense of guilt, embarrassment, unworthiness, or disgrace.
Capacity for such a feeling: Have you no shame?
One that brings dishonor, disgrace, or condemnation.
A condition of disgrace or dishonor; ignominy.
A great disappointment.

I do none of these to her. I have also stated a couple of time that after punishment I show them that I love them this means words of affirmation to my daughter and letting her know how valuable she is to me.

I also dont spank generaly past the age of 5 or when I feel they are begining to understand the "WHY" in why I want them to do or dont want them to do something.

You make it sound like I beat them to the ground. oh its violent, no kicking them with the bottom of my shoe is violent.
Let me ask you would it be worth spanking your child if it tought them to not run into the street.


vi·o·lence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-lns)
n.
Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.
The act or an instance of violent action or behavior.
Intensity or severity, as in natural phenomena; untamed force: the violence of a tornado.
Abusive or unjust exercise of power.
Abuse or injury to meaning, content, or intent: do violence to a text.
Vehemence of feeling or expression; fervor.


spank·ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spngkng)

n.
A number of slaps on the buttocks delivered in rapid succession, as for punishment



I know you can spank violently but I dont see how spanking in itself is violent.
 
Spanking children just teaches them that violence is a valid means of communication and getting someone to do what you want.

Baaad idea.
 
ComradeBadger said:
Spanking children just teaches them that violence is a valid means of communication and getting someone to do what you want.

Baaad idea.
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if you twat them all the time then they will see it that way, a slap here and there shouldn't
 
what is your child's reaction when you administer "A number of slaps on the buttocks delivered in rapid succession, as for punishment"? Does she say "I've learned my lesson daddy" or does she just cry? you're invoking a fear response to a behaviour ...once bitten twice shy isnt the right way to go about learning discipline. You may be lenient on your children I really dont know ...I'm also not accusing you of abuse but the fact is any physical form of punisment is detrimental to one's feeling of worth. "I must be bad because daddy punished me" Most times thee only thing a young child will learn from corporal punishment is that there are physical consequences to behaving a certain way, not necessarily that what they did was wrong just that it'll get them in trouble


oh and you cant say a young person doesnt understand reasoning. If I can successfully teach an autistic child with the IQ of a 2 year old the difference between right and wrong, I'm sure you can do the same for a "normal" child. I had some very violent students over the years who would often strike out at teachers which usually put them into a therapeutic holding (you hold the person so that he doesnt hurt himself) In 7 years of teaching I never once got hit but other male teachers who were often in the center of a therapeutic holdings would always be targeted.


btw Yakuza check your private messages
 
Yakuza - you say that children that age don't understand it.

Ok, that might be right , but if you slap them, they don't understand either. In fact the punishment has NOTHING to do with the misbehavior.

If your child likes to stand on chairs and you told him, then leave him - if he falls, he will hurt himself. That will teach him not to stand on chairs. And that will teach him to listen to you!
So when he runs towards a street, you don't have to slap him, cause your words are enough.

And please give me some examples when spanking is apropriate.

ps: Spanking is OF COURSE a form of violence! You posted it yourself.
vi·o·lence: Physical force exerted for the purpose of damaging (you damage the body AND soul)

And you are right ComradeBadger :)
 
heh it's naive to think that children capable of language are too stupid to understand what you're saying to them, and why doing a thing is wrong. i learned as one of my first words why not to touch a burner on an oven. my mom told me not to touch it because i could burn myself. then i touched it very gently and pulled my hand back saying "hot hot" (all this is from what my mom told me happened. no i don't have some creepy baby memories). this sort of thing could be used for animals that have no where near the intellect of humans. i had a pet pigeon that was fascinated with everything i was doing. one time he thought the matches i was playing with were interesting and he kept looking that the little fires i was making. i thought this could pose a big danger. so i held a match to him so he could inspect it. he bit the firey end and jumped way back. from that day forward he never got close to fire. i'm not saying "let the kids do anything and have them learn from severely hurting themselves. i'm saying in a horribly long and muddled sort of way, that physical violence at a child isn't necessarily the best type of conditioning. in fact that could be why it might not be a good idea. if you think the child cannot understand the logic of why doing certain things is a nono, then the ONLY thing that the spanking does is to condition them. it's positive reinforcement to act a certain way. this is conditioning... think Pavlov's dog or the Skinner boxes. you're not teaching the child that it's wrong to do something. it's teaching that if they do something they'll get hit.

...assuming you think they're incapable of logical thought. heh sorry for the redundancy.


Fear Factory - bite the hand that bleeds

edit: sorry if i have repeated what other people have said. didn't read after page 3 or 4 or so..
 
I think smacking is a last resort used by bad parents.

Locking misbehaving kids away on their own until they reflect and apologise for what they have done wrong is one way, another is to have an awards system where if they behave all day they get a treat.

The best thing to do is just spend time with the kids and teach them about morals and respect - which is what hardly any kids these days have any sort of a clue about.
 
oh by the way, to clear up any possible confusion. i referred to spanking as positive reinforcement in my previous post. that's because reinforcing to get the end that you desire is called positive reinforcement. spanking to get a kid to act a certain way is therefore positive reinforcement. negative reinforcement is where you remove an undesired stimulus (spanking) when you get the response you want (the kid behaves).

Fear Factory - Human Shields
 
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