Israel and Gaza attacks.

[CptStern]

precision bombs, hundreds of yards away from their "intended" targets ....this makes more sense?

 

[PimpinPenguin]

So Solaris, why do you think Israel intentionally decided to bomb a school full of innocent children?

No,no Israel did not intentionally bomb the school. Militants had been launching Qassam rockets into Israel from within a lot adjacent to the courtyard of the UN school.
They were under fire and was only returning fire when they launched the mortars in the vicinity of the school. Unfortunalty the Mortars they were using have an error margin of 30 metres and 1 of the 3 rounds they fired hit the school. Israel did not just go in and bomb the school for no reason. These weapons as accurate as they are do **** up some times the Americans had the same problems in Iraq and Afghanistan and with Gaza being such a densely populated area those small errors have huge consequences. I don't understand why people think Israel wants to go around bombing schools full of children it won't do their PR any good at home or internationally.

People say the Israel should allow Gaza to have arms so that it can defend itself. Yes i agree Gaza has a right to defend itself. But would you trust a country who's party wishes for the complete destruction for your people? A party who has waged a war against you using suicide bombing and attacking boarder crossing? Wake up you allow Hamas to arm themselves all they are going to do is build up their arms before they go and attack Israel Unless Hamas recognises Israel's land and right to exist there will never be peace.

 

[No Limit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_strike

Israel says one thing, Hamas says another. However, the one independent source here is the UN and they say that there were no militants inside that school. However, this kind of besides the point. Nobody desputes that Israel knew this was a UN ran school and that people would be taking refuge there. They had this marked on the GPS as they are required to do.

So why in the world would Israel intentionally (this was intentional) send bombs anywhere near a school full of children? 3 Israeli civillians have died in this conflict; Israel had faced no danger that could ever justify sending bombs anywhere near a school full of innocent children, even if rockets were being launched on top of that school (there is absolutely no evidance of this) these rockets are so ineffective that they have only killed a few people in over a decade. So I ask again, why did Israel intentionally bomb a school fully of innocent children?

 

[CptStern]

No,no Israel did not intentionally bomb the school. Militants had been launching Qassam rockets into Israel from within a lot adjacent to the courtyard of the UN school.
They were under fire and was only returning fire when they launched the mortars in the vicinity of the school. Unfortunalty the Mortars they were using have an error margin of 30 metres and 1 of the 3 rounds they fired hit the school. Israel did not just go in and bomb the school for no reason. These weapons as accurate as they are do **** up some times the Americans had the same problems in Iraq and Afghanistan and with Gaza being such a densely populated area those small errors have huge consequences.

I don't understand why people think Israel wants to go around bombing schools full of children it won't do their PR any good at home or internationally.

because when ordinary citizens see their loved ones getting blown up instead of their military (it's their job) they tend to get angry at their leaders. This is a very effective tactic that has worked since the dawn of organised war. Now I'm not saying they're deliberately targeting chidren or even civilians on a regular basis. All I'm saying is that they're not being overly cautious just like they threw caution into the wind and carpet bombed lebanon

http://www.popular-pics.com/PPImages/Lebanon-Before-After.jpg

it was all "precision" bombing, but from the above photo it's apparent that when you saturate an area with bombs "being precise" becomes meaningless

but hey lets sweep everything under the carpet by using words like "precision" and "regretable" and "human shields" ..therefore people are confused and think to themselves "no they couldnt be targeting civilains" ..well from that photo of lebanon it was clear they were targeting lebanon ..I'm sure they sorted the civilian from the terrorist after their guns had stopped

People say the Israel should allow Gaza to have arms so that it can defend itself.

why is it israels right to decide what they should get? what's the point of autonomy if israel has a say in what they can or cant have?

Yes i agree Gaza has a right to defend itself. But would you trust a country who's party wishes for the complete destruction for your people?

it's the race card yet again for the 5 millionth time. they hate all jews and want them extreminated just like hitler. therefore this is a cause EVERY human should stand behind! arent they clever? everybody rally around the presecuted jews and turn a blind eye to what they're doing because hey the other side wants GENOCIDE!

A party who has waged a war against you using suicide bombing and attacking boarder crossing? Wake up you allow Hamas to arm themselves all they are going to do is build up their arms before they go and attack Israel Unless Hamas recognises Israel's land and right to exist there will never be peace.

hamas were democratically elected, they really have absolutely zero responsibility to answer any of the demands of israel IF they become a sovereign state so your point is moot. Israel does not want this, so they occupy or corral palestinians into a small little corner where they can monitor their every move. ever applying pressure ever denying them the means of self determination

 

[PimpinPenguin]

hamas were democratically elected, they really have absolutely zero responsibility to answer any of the demands of israel IF they become a sovereign state so your point is moot. Israel does not want this, so they occupy or corral palestinians into a small little corner where they can monitor their every move. ever applying pressure ever denying them the means of self determination

Democratically elected or not doesn't stop them from being a known terrorist organisation. What do you what? Israel to sit back and allow Hamas to bring all the arms they want? No prizes for who all those arms will be used against. No one here seems to criticise Hamas for continuing to fire Rockets everyday during the ceasefire. What do you want Israel to do? All they are trying to do is stop the flow of illegal weapons that will be used against them. That's why they restrict the boarders to help stop the flow of illegal weapons and prevent suicide bombers from entering Israel. You keep saying we are playing the race card but it still doesn't excuse the fact that it's what Hamas stands for the complete destruction of Israel i fail to see how that's not relevant. Israel at least tried to respect the ceasefire agreement they started relaxing the boarder restrictions yet Hamas continue to ignore it from day 1. You can't expect everything to be one way.

 

[No Limit]

The government of Israel at this point is a terrorist organization. They were also democratically elected. What's your point?

 

[jet_porkins]

this is obvious and applies to all people at all times. that said it doesnt mean that the arttcle you posted was "non partisan" ..that is the point. nothing more, nothing less

Right, no arguments here. I posted the article, knowing he believed a certain way, and wrote his article accordingly - AKA "biased." I really hate changing the subject, but here's the difference: perfectly objective journalism is reporting fact after fact, indisputably, and offering no commentary that would sway public opinion to one way or another. That said, it's hard to be objective, as defined by my previous sentence, when your whole purpose for the article is to provide arguments for one side of the equation to persuade the audience. It's a persuasive article, nothing more, nothing less.

yes and I replied with the fact that they're a news aggregator ..they collect news reports, so naturally they're by design non partisan

Alright, well pardon me for complicating the topic-at-hand with useless vocabulary. My intention was not to debate semantics.

I'm not sure where you got this because I didnt say anything about knowing you. did you misreply?

I added that disclaimer after I gave my assumption regarding articles you agreed/disagreed with. I thought my remark was a bit too snappy, so I felt compelled to clarify.

there's extremists zionists who would fight israel if they did nothing:

I see your point. It's like I said earlier, there will always be parties of people who think one way or another.

BTW why is this my responsibility to decide?

Not really. You obviously cared enough to respond to my initial post, and here we are.

so it's a racial thing rather than a "hey you took my ****ing land and left us with squalor and refugee camps" kinda thing. So if it were the chinese, greeks, or canadians they'd embrace their occupiers and live happily ever after? framing it as a race hatred dehumaanises their opponent allowing even the gentlest of spirit the opportunity to become a bloodthirsty supporter of atrocities

The way I perceive it, it became racial and/or religious.

Is this the mark of someone who's mad over land?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4254225.ece
His plan was "Here are some Jews. I will kill them now." Sure, I'd be pretty pissed if I were born into a piss-poor state of affairs, but hopefully I'd have enough sense to realize that the civilians living there now had almost nothing to do with what happened 50 years ago. It's no different than a racist black guy who hates ALL white people because of the crimes of the few.



I will say that I find the violence over there to be disgusting. I'm not defending the war whatsoever. The armed forces of Israel's decision to bomb that school was horrendous. Both sides have done terrible things. I will be the first to say, however, that if there is a peaceable solution, a lot of people still will not be satisfied until one of the extremes is wiped out before the other is.

I gotta go to class, I'll write back regarding the second half of your remarks later.

 

[CptStern]

Democratically elected or not doesn't stop them from being a known terrorist organisation.

known by whom?

Norway was the first Western country to recognize the 2007 Palestinian government consisting of both Hamas and Fatah, and Norwegian officials have met with Hamas representatives on several occasions. "We know that the USA and the EU have legal obligations since they have Hamas on their terrorist list. We must be able to take an independent decision about contact," Norwegian foreign minister Jonas Gahr St?re responded to a 2006 United States' attempt to dissuade Norwegian contact with Hamas. [174] The United States lists HAMAS as a "Foreign Terrorist Organization".[25] The military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, is listed as a terrorist organization by Australia,[27] and the United Kingdom.[28] In a 2007 Pew Global Attitudes Survey, 62% of Palestinians have a favorable opinion of Hamas, as do majorities or pluralities in Jordan and Morocco. Opinions of Hamas are divided in Egypt and Kuwait, and Hamas is viewed negatively in Turkey and Lebanon.

What do you what? Israel to sit back and allow Hamas to bring all the arms they want?

what does it matter what I want? how is it up to me to decide their fate? or yours? or anyone elses except the palestinian people themselves. You're giving an emotional response to an unemotional statement of fact: they as a sovereign nation (if they're given statehood) have the right to defend themselves FULL STOP end of point

No prizes for who all those arms will be used against.

the flipside is true AMIRITE? oh right the israelis will receive prizes for the destruction wroght upon gaza .free explosive bear hugs from angry not-too-smart youths

No one here seems to criticise Hamas for continuing to fire Rockets everyday during the ceasefire.

kinda irrelevant when 3 israelis die compared to the 971+ that have died on the other side

What do you want Israel to do? All they are trying to do is stop the flow of illegal weapons that will be used against them.

I thought they were trying to kill 971 palestinians ..I mean the city was under seige before the current conflict. there's an embargo against medical supplies and food ..could these also be made into rockets?

That's why they restrict the boarders to help stop the flow of illegal weapons and prevent suicide bombers from entering Israel.

medical supplies can hide terrorists

"oh look there's a terrorist hiding in a banana, oh look there's a terrorist behind that giant band-aid" and so on

You keep saying we are playing the race card

because you are

but it still doesn't excuse the fact that it's what Hamas stands for the complete destruction of Israel i fail to see how that's not relevant.

the destruction of the state of israel =/= genocide of the jewish peoples ..one can rightfully say that Israel has been destroying the arab state from the very start

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h98/Nektaria/Palestine/IsraeliExpansion.jpg

Israel at least tried to respect the ceasefire agreement they started relaxing the boarder restrictions yet Hamas continue to ignore it from day 1. You can't expect everything to be one way.

what cease fire agreement? hamas does not hold sway over all militant groups in gaza. hamas the poltiical wing =/= military wing

 

[PimpinPenguin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_strike

Israel says one thing, Hamas says another. However, the one independent source here is the UN and they say that there were no militants inside that school. However, this kind of besides the point. Nobody desputes that Israel knew this was a UN ran school and that people would be taking refuge there. They had this marked on the GPS as they are required to do.

So why in the world would Israel intentionally (this was intentional) send bombs anywhere near a school full of children? 3 Israeli civillians have died in this conflict; Israel had faced no danger that could ever justify sending bombs anywhere near a school full of innocent children, even if rockets were being launched on top of that school (there is absolutely no evidance of this) these rockets are so ineffective that they have only killed a few people in over a decade. So I ask again, why did Israel intentionally bomb a school fully of innocent children?

The militants were not in the school they were in building adjacent to the school.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090112.wgazaschool12/BNStory/International

They were not aiming for the school but yes it was reckless to use such inaccurate weapons when near the school. Yet no one seems to criticises Hamas for firing near a school.
But let's look at that wiki link you provided.

On January 11, 2009, a few days after the attack, the IDF reported that it had uncovered an explosive device rigged with a timer that was hidden in a Palestinian school. A fuse attached to the explosives extended to a zoo located dozens of yards away. The soldiers managed to neutralize the bomb before it went off. According to the IDF, numerous weapons, including RPG launchers, grenades and AK-47 assault rifles were found inside the school.

Hamas has fired its rockets on Israeli schools and school facilities several times from 2008 to 2009, with no casualties or injuries except for cases of shock reported as of January 2009.A missile fired upon a Beersheba school on December 30, 2008, causing severe damage, narrowly missed having casualties because the IDF had decided to cancel all classes in all of Beersheba's educational institutions.

So there you have it. Hamas themselves use Schools stash RPGs and other weapons. Does that sound like a party that's protecting the children or using them as shields. Hamas aimed for a school in Israel and succeeded in hitting it.It was just luck that no children were in it. But if it did hit that school it would be ok it's only one school hit with weaker rockets right?

Theses rockets may have only killed 3 people since the conflict and cause who knows how much damage and fear but You tell that to the Israelis who have to deal with the threat of rocket attack everyday during the ceasefire. The point is these rockets have the potential to cause massive amounts of death and they are becoming more and more accurate and the range is always being extended. Just cause your opponent is using inferior weapons compared to you is no reason to ignore the threat.

 

[CptStern]

So there you have it. Hamas themselves use Schools stash RPGs and other weapons. Does that sound like a party that's protecting the children or using them as shields. Hamas aimed for a school in Israel and succeeded in hitting it.It was just luck that no children were in it. But if it did hit that school it would be ok it's only one school hit with weaker rockets right?

Theses rockets may have only killed 3 people since the conflict and cause who knows how much damage and fear but You tell that to the Israelis who have to deal with the threat of rocket attack everyday during the ceasefire. The point is these rockets have the potential to cause massive amounts of death and they are becoming more and more accurate and the range is always being extended. Just cause your opponent is using inferior weapons compared to you is no reason to ignore the threat.

see this is what I mean about an emotional response; point the finger at the other side and wash your hands of all responsibility

"oh in the past they booby trapped a school, therefore they had every right to blow that school to smithereens" ..it's "regretable" but the alternative is the HOLOCAUST ALL OVER AGAIN


really there's no talking to some of you, you're just too far entrenched in your dogmas to notice anything else

 

[No Limit]

PimpinPinguin only a sick **** would fire anywhere near a school full of innocent children. Period. It is terrorism. As stern said you can try to point the finger the other way but this doesn't change that fact. And lets not forget you are getting your information from Israel (actually directly from the unit that fired these rounds); you wouldn't trust any information coming from Hamas, why in the world makes you think I would trust information from Israel?

 

[PimpinPenguin]

known by whom?

By the US the EU and Israel. But i suppose you can say that one mans terrorist is another freedom fighter

what does it matter what I want? how is it up to me to decide their fate? or yours? or anyone elses except the palestinian people themselves. You're giving an emotional response to an unemotional statement of fact: they as a sovereign nation (if they're given statehood) have the right to defend themselves FULL STOP end of point

True they have the right to defend themselves. But when you go firing rockets don't come crying to the international community when they retaliate.

the flipside is true AMIRITE? oh right the israelis will receive prizes for the destruction wroght upon gaza .free explosive bear hugs from angry not-too-smart youths

Your right. I concede you make a good point.

kinda irrelevant when 3 israelis die compared to the 971+ that have died on the other side

Just because fewer die on one side doesn't make it irrelevant. It's not though the lack of trying that only 3 Israeli citizens have been killed since the conflict. More rockets then ever before have been fired and it's due only to the inferior weapons that this is not higher.

I thought they were trying to kill 971 palestinians ..I mean the city was under seige before the current conflict. there's an embargo against medical supplies and food ..could these also be made into rockets?

The Medical embargo was placed After the continued rocket attacks during the ceasefire.
Allow me to bring another point;
Gazans requiring medical care in Israeli hospitals have to apply for a medical permit. In 2007, Israel granted 7176 permits and denied 1627. Two women who had received permits were arrested at the crossing when it was found they had plans to blow themselves up in the Israeli hospital.
Israel is helping the Gaza citizens in their own hospitals and yet the Gazans still use this as an opportunity to attack.

what cease fire agreement? hamas does not hold sway over all militant groups in gaza.

If Hamas cannot control what the military wing does then they should never have agreed to the cease fire agreement. Hamas effectively controls Gaza and could prevent rocket attacks if they want to but they don't. It's easy just to say they have no control over them even though they make no attempts to stop them.

 

[No Limit]

But i suppose you can say that one mans terrorist is another freedom fighter

Just like you can say that one mans terrorist is another mans government. amirite?

 

[PimpinPenguin]

No limit. What about the school Hamas attack in Isreal? Was that not sick? Sure the school was empty by luck but it still doesn't excuse what they were attempting to do

 

[No Limit]

No limit. What about the school Hamas attack in Isreal? Was that not sick? Sure the school was empty by luck but it still doesn't excuse what they were attempting to do

Who the **** is trying to excuse what hamas did? Are you seriously that narrow minded that you think because hamas tried to do this it's okay for Israel, one of the worlds greatest military complexes, to do this?

I have asked you over and over to explain how what Israel did was not terrorism. The only thing you have been able to come up with is that this terrorism is okay because hamas used terrorism. Get your head out of Israel's ass.

 

[CptStern]

By the US the EU and Israel.

oh ok then that settles it, the enemies of hamas have labeled them terrorists ...did you expect otherwise?

oh and Norway is in the EU

But i suppose you can say that one mans terrorist is another freedom fighter

yes:

The Jewish Resistance Movement

This body consolidated the armed resistance to the British of the Irgun, Lehi, and the Haganah. For ten months the Irgun and the Lehi cooperated and they carried out nineteen attacks and defense operations.

The King David Hotel bombing was a deadly bomb attack by the Irgun, a militant Zionist group, on the headquarters of the British Mandatory authorities of Palestine, located at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The offensive was carried out on 22 July 1946 and was the deadliest attack against the British during the Mandate era (1920-1948).

91 people were killed and 46 were injured

and:

In July 2006, Israelis, including former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing, which was organized by the Menachem Begin Centre. The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated."

True they have the right to defend themselves. But when you go firing rockets don't come crying to the international community when they retaliate.

whom are "they"? the ones respionsible for the rocket attacks or palestinians in general because it seems to me that it's palestinians who are bearing the brunt of the reponsibility for the rocket attacks. But hey, they voted Hamas in so they deserve it right?

Your right. I concede you make a good point.

thank you. look I have nothing against israel or even against israel defending itself. I'm just tired of one sided reporting in this decades old conflict. I'm tired of watching as the situation grows worse with each passing day, year after year, generation after generation..the worst part of it is that they BOTH dragged the rest of us into their dirty little conflict. our security is directly tied to israeli imperialism and the occupation of palestine over the years

Just because fewer die on one side doesn't make it irrelevant. It's not though the lack of trying that only 3 Israeli citizens have been killed since the conflict. More rockets then ever before have been fired and it's due only to the inferior weapons that this is not higher.

ok then so you agree that they're not all that effective even when they're used more often than is usual ..you said this was the reason why israel responded ..how many israelis have been killed in rocket attacks in the last few years? I doubt it's as high as the daily toll in gaza

The Medical embargo was placed After the continued rocket attacks during the ceasefire.

there's blocades right now. the said they'd "open" a corridor allowing aid to arrive but that was only AFTER the school bombing, when the world turned an accusatory eye towards israel

Allow me to bring another point;
Gazans requiring medical care in Israeli hospitals have to apply for a medical permit. In 2007, Israel granted 7176 permits and denied 1627. Two women who had received permits were arrested at the crossing when it was found they had plans to blow themselves up in the Israeli hospital.

ok, so what does this have to do with the palestinians not having enough medical supplies? if anything you're agreeing with me and helping my case not yours

Israel is helping the Gaza citizens in their own hospitals and yet the Gazans still use this as an opportunity to attack.

If Hamas cannot control what the military wing does then they should never have agreed to the cease fire agreement. Hamas effectively controls Gaza and could prevent rocket attacks if they want to but they don't. It's easy just to say they have no control over them even though they make no attempts to stop them.

actually i'm surprised anything gets done in gaza at all...generation and generation of being under the occupiers yoke would make it dificult to do anything except die


there was an art exhibit here in toronto a few years back that was a sort of video/photo diary of the artists trip through isral and the occupied territories ..he had contrasting photos of the very best hotel in israel as compared to very best hotel in gaza ..the israeli hotel had tons of tourists and beautiful beaches ..the hotel in gaza was a ruined bombed out shell ..now that was then and things have changed since then but I think my point illustrates itself

 

[Eejit]

oh and Norway is in the EU

Since when?

 

[PimpinPenguin]

Who the **** is trying to excuse what hamas did? Are you seriously that narrow minded that you think because hamas tried to do this it's okay for Israel, one of the worlds greatest military complexes, to do this?

I have asked you over and over to explain how what Israel did was not terrorism. The only thing you have been able to come up with is that this terrorism is okay because hamas used terrorism. Get your head out of Israel's ass.

I never said it was ok. All i was saying that it wasn't intentional but highly irresponsible to be using such inaccurate weapons near a school. No i don't agree with everything Israel does i don't find it acceptable that they used white phosphorous an illegal weapon or the use of inaccurate weapons because the more accurate weapon malfunctioned. But i still don't believe they were trying to hit schools intentionally like hamas does.

 

[No Limit]

I never said it was ok. All i was saying that it wasn't intentional but highly irresponsible to be using such inaccurate weapons near a school. No i don't agree with everything Israel does i don't find it acceptable that they used white phosphorous an illegal weapon or the use of inaccurate weapons because the more accurate weapon malfunctioned. But i still don't believe they were trying to hit schools intentionally like hamas does.

Who cares what you believe? Just because the facts are sitting right there in front of you and you refuse to accept those facts because of the years of propogenda you have been subject to doesn't make your "belief" valid.

They knew that school was there. When they fired those rounds they knew that there was a very high risk of that school getting hit, your own article claims they knew the error rate of their mortars, they fired anyway. This not only makes them sub-human it also makes them terrorists by any logical definition of the term.

 

[CptStern]

Since when?

my mistake

 

[Dan]

What it comes down to is that if you criticize Hamas for attacking civilians, the same criticism should also fall on the Israeli government and army for attacking civilians, more so because of the magnitude of the deaths. They may not be directly aiming at them, but there is no doubt that civilians will die when you bomb a densely populated city.

But people say that the Israelis' killings are justified because a) their intention is to kill Hamas members, and b) Hamas did it first. Argument a) does still not justify their actions, I hope you can all see why. And argument b) only leads to an escalating conflict. Both sides have contentions going back through the last century, and if each contention justifies disproportionately greater retaliation, then you just end up with slaughter.

Retaliation only works if it is known beforehand that it will deter future conflict and aggressions. I think we can all see that this retaliation has only made a whole lot of people a whole lot of more mad. It may reduce Hamas' capabilities for the next few years, but it breeds another generation of hatred. The more Israel fights the Palestinians, the more ill will it produces, not just in Palestine, but in all of the countries that surround it, and with the US going down the pooper, that is a very bad situation to be in.

 

[Tyguy]

Who cares what you believe? Just because the facts are sitting right there in front of you and you refuse to accept those facts because of the years of propogenda you have been subject to doesn't make your "belief" valid.

what, he can't have an opinion anymore but you can? When are some of you going to stop pretending you know anything more than what you saw on wikipedia...

 

[No Limit]

what, he can't have an opinion anymore but you can? When are some of you going to stop pretending you know anything more than what you saw on wikipedia...

The problem is that many times the use of the opinion card isn't always valid. When the facts are sitting right there infront of you and you say "well what I'm saying is just my opinion" that doesn't make your opinion valid.

 

[CptStern]

What it comes down to is that if you criticize Hamas for attacking civilians, the same criticism should also fall on the Israeli government and army for attacking civilians, more so because of the magnitude of the deaths. They may not be directly aiming at them, but there is no doubt that civilians will die when you bomb a densely populated city.

yes thank you. really is this that hard to understand?



the rest of your post was good too but I just quoted the parts I wanted to quote

what, he can't have an opinion anymore but you can? When are some of you going to stop pretending you know anything more than what you saw on wikipedia...

as opposed to pretending to know anything more than they saw of foxnews or CNN or from their neighbourhood jewish deli?

dont assume we just fell off the back of a turnip truck. Some of us have been aware of this conflict since before you were even born

 

[Tyguy]

dont assume we just fell off the back of a turnip truck. Some of us have been aware of this conflict since before you were even born

I'm trying to establish the fact that all any of us can do is contribute our opinions...anyone who actually thinks they fully understand this situation is lying. Everything I've said has been an opinion but I try and base them off of what I consider to be right and wrong as well as what i've learned through as many sources as I can get hold of (and no, I don't use fox or cnn to make my points).

I don't assume to know more than any of you but I can at least respect other member's opinions and if I disagree, I explain why.

Let's be respectful, eh? A-holes...

 

[PimpinPenguin]

L've learned a few things off you guy's though this. I'm just giving my opinion which i accept can be wrong. By the way i also don't get my sources from CNN or Fox. I do try to keep a balance view by watching Al Jazeera and BBC which are biased in their own ways. If anyone can give me better sources i'd like to hear them. I try to avoid western media as much as possible.

 

[CptStern]

you just accused us of falling off of a turnip truck!!! respect is a two way street ..although that doesnt apply to the Religulous

 

[Tyguy]

you just accused us of falling off of a turnip truck!!! respect is a two way street ..although that doesnt apply to the Religulous

I respect what others say unless im given a reason not to. (rudeness, insanity)

Plus, your old so i have to respect what you say no matter what. My mommy told me so.

 

[CptStern]

I read that as "nudeness" and thought "wtf is wrong with the tyguy?"


also the threat of having a close encounter with the side of my cane is also a valid reason to respect my opinion :E

 

[Tyguy]

I read that as "nudeness" and thought "wtf is wrong with the tyguy?"


also the threat of having a close encounter with the side of my cane is also a valid reason to respect my opinion :E

i read that as "when im nude i vote for john mccain." :O

 

[CptStern]

I havent seen this video yet so I'm not exactly sure it relates all that much to the conflict in gaza but I've been told as much so someone watch it and fill me in

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kHejjTKwJQw

(no pc at home, under massive construction due to burst drain pipes)

 

[Dan]

He fails to take into account that True Lies was a kickass movie

 

[jet_porkins]

I dont either, however as you stated before, it helps to look at both sides, no? I'm seeing one side from you to be perfectly honest

Fine then, let's get the record straight. Do I sympathize for Israel? The nation as a whole and their hope to stay alive in a region where almost every nation there would delight in nothing more than seeing the death of its citizens (children, families, etc.), yes. Do I think they're doing a tragically sloppy job with their side of the offensive, and that those innocents who died during the bombing can be seen as acts of terror? Yes. I agree with you that much of what they've done is terrorizing. I don't know all of the truth behind the bombing of the school since all I can do is read what the media feeds me, but I'll say that was a sick thing to do. No matter how hard one tries, you can never justify blowing up a school and killing children. It's scary as hell over there and no amount of good can come from precision I-Use-That-Term-Loosely bombs. I find the whole thing loathsome. I agree 100% with all of that. My main disagreement is that I happen to believe that Hamas has been inviting this. I will say again: that in no way justifies those deaths.

respect is a two way street ..although that doesnt apply to the Religulous

Mm-Hmm...?

 

[delusional]

Found this interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo

 

[Dan]

Go to 2:27 to hear a woman's argument get destroyed

 

[Seppo]

Go to 2:27 to hear a woman's argument get destroyed

Haha

Also, that dude they interview at around 1:10 made me chuckle. "like, dis shit be going on and, liek, pro israel 'n stuff"

 

[Eejit]

"We're being persectured again. For like the trillionth time ever!"

 

[No Limit]

"What would be wrong with Israel just wiping gaza off the map"...lol.

 

[Tyguy]

"What would be wrong with Israel just wiping gaza off the map"...lol.

it's probably in pen, wouldn't work :rolling:

 

[CptStern]

photos from gaza:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...32028065546/Gallery-Save-the-Children-002.jpg


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2009/jan/13/gaza-israelandthepalestinians?picture=341743321
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/gallery/2009/jan/15/gaza-save-the-children?picture=341821870