Kerry or Bush ?

[crabcakes66]

Thank-you. Much better than calling Bush an idiot...

No, I disagree with Kerry on abortion,

Ok I can understand that.

the way he is side skirting the issue with troops in Iraq,

I recall plenty of skirting on these issues from the current administration. And when they stick to things that they are know not working to avoid "waffling".....That doesnt sit well with me.

most of his economic policys,

You mean the policys that will prevent our country from turning into a 3rd world nation?

his opposition of a church state,

Go start your own country if you want to live like its 500 years ago.

and I don't like the overall lack of details on how he will accomplish certain issues (like reducing health care costs, etc).

How is this any differant than bush? Oh wait thats right! ...Bush explained what he was going to do and none of it worked! These "issues" are in the worst state they have been since there individual inceptions.

Not to mention the way he has been known to hypocritical by saying one thing and doing another.

rather than doing one thing he knows is wrong just so he doesnt seem hipocritical? Id rather have a hipocrit than a tyrant any day.

 

[blahblahblah]

1) I don't remember seeing Kerry claim that he is going to pull out of Iraq.
2) You've got that backwards. Outsourcing can be good for an economy. So can a bunch of other economic policies Bush has. They just don't appear to help the economy to the average person. Not to mention economic cycles that happens regardless of who is president.
3) Why make my own country when I can vote?
4) Bush has actual details about his health care plans. Kerry just mentions a $1000 savings if he is president.
5) If you think Bush is a tyrant, I suggest you take a European/Russian history class. Tryant will take on a new meaning. As for being a hypocrit, that means he is promising one thing and will do another. How would you like it if he went from being pro-choice to pro-life? (Discalimer: This is purely an example and may not reflect your beliefs or reality)

PS - Anyways, my point is not to start a debate on political beliefs, but to find out why people think Kerry is better than Bush besides the typical "I hate Bush" statements that pervade this forum. That is all. :cheers:

 

[crabcakes66]

2) You've got that backwards.

I dont think so. Mabey you should do some more research on this subject.

PS - Anyways, my point is not to start a debate on political beliefs, but to find out why people think Kerry is better than Bush besides the typical "I hate Bush" statements that pervade this forum. That is all. :cheers:

Me either....but if you want to talk about garbage generalisations i can to.... :cheers:

 

[blahblahblah]

I dont think so. Mabey you should do some more research on this subject.

I'm an accounting major who is probably gonna get a Master of Taxation (no GMAT test for me, doing too good in college, w00t) next year. I almost became an economics major (It is amazing how expensive college is even with a full tution waiver) instead of an accounting major.

Basically, outsourcing is good. Quick example, the US doesn't make TV's anymore because the jobs were outsourced to China and other places. The result was good because it freed up some of our workforce to do other, higher paying jobs. However, for a while outsourcing does hurt, but in the long run it is better for the American economy. The effects of outsourcing will be felt less as you receive more education. That is why a college diploma is important.

As for Bush's tax issues, they are good if they are done with in reason. So far he hasn't gone crazy yet. You will have to take my word for it. Don't feel like explaining taxes to you tonight.

Not to mention the US economy does go in cycles. In fact, we were overdue for a recession when Bush took office. It was a natural business cycle. In fact, I am impressed that our recession wasn't worse.

Anyways. Enough with my babbling. :E

 

[Apos]

No, I disagree with Kerry on abortion,

I've got to ask: what has Bush done on abortion? We have a completely Republican Congress and White House, and yet, here we are, abortions legal as always. The Republicans could have made a law that would have legally banned late term elective abortions, but then instead chose to exclude the single clause that everyone knew the courts would have to strike down. In this way they could:

a) do nothing in the end: which avoided them losing votes from women
b) keep the issue in the news so that they could play it up come election time
c) get the Democrats on record as voting against a bill that LOOKED reasonable on the surface, but contained crazy language that Dems couldn't support

If the Republicans had wanted, they could have passed a law, with the votes of many Democrats, including Kerry, that would have banned late term abortions and saved thousands of fetuses. Instead, they chose to put on a dog and pony show.

And, in the end, Republican policies probably result in more abortions rather than fewer. Because they oppose groups that provide family planning and abortions around the world, and force "abstinence only" programs that just don't work, way more unplanned pregnancies are the result. Instead of contraception and family planning, we get... more people seeking, and getting, abortions. Both in America and especially around the world where contraception education and family planning education are desperately needed.

What do Republicans have to crow about on abortion? What have they accomplished, aside from duping everyone into thinking they care about seriously doing anything about the issue?

2) You've got that backwards. Outsourcing can be good for an economy.

I agree, which is why Kerry's plans focus on reducing the perverse incentives that companies have for outsourcing, thus leveling the playing field. Markets get distorted in all sorts of ways, and his proposals aim, far more than Bush's, to fix those messed up incentives.

his opposition of a church state,.....
3) Why make my own country when I can vote?

You can't vote for something that violates the basic rights of fellow Americans for no other reason than that you like it better that way. The government shouldn't play god or express god beliefs. The government is not a person: it is a legal tool incorporated by the people to administrate earthly matters. Religious matters are left entirely to the people: giving the government any degree of authority over or opinion about religion detracts from civil society. The founders understood this: they felt that SoCaS would enhance both religion and state. And they were proved right: religious belief is thriving in America, where religion is the sole domain of civil society, dying in Europe, where it is either state supported (UK) or state restricted (France). I support people who don't want to screw this delicate balance up any further than a couple of holier-than-thou politicians have tried to.

4) Bush has actual details about his health care plans.

You're joking, right? What is Bush's health care plan? Worthless cards? HSA's that don't even CLAIM to result in more than a million people being able to get health coverage when there are 44 million uninsured driving up costs: people that can't afford basic medical care who then end up in emergency rooms, one of the most expensive treatment options that the public almost always ends up paying for.

Kerry laid out a comprehensive series of measures to reduce costs, give employers tax incentives to bundle care, and make sure that children have access to health care, thus reducing the extreme costs that come when insured children get expensively sick (and then have to be cured on the public dime) from problems that would have been cheap to treat early on. He laid out a system that would gut punitive damages and screen out lousy lawsuits that waste everyone's money. Among many many other things.

It's an outright lie to claim that Kerry has said nothing more than a 1000$ savings (in fact, I don't even know to what that reffers).

But what was Bush's plan again?

Not to mention the way he has been known to hypocritical by saying one thing and doing another.

Examples? Most of what I've heard are as bogus and dishonest as the "350 times to raise taxes" trope.

 

[blahblahblah]

How is it going Apos? You don't post much anymore (besides disagreeing with my posts, lol).

Anyways, I'm just going to say I am entitled to my own politicial beliefs and save me from writing a giant post that only 2 people in the world will read.

You don't need to post a counter arguement. If anything, you can post more information about Kerry's health care plans. I grabed the information about Kerry's health care plans here. After all, I maybe a republician with certain beliefs, I still want to be an educated voter.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/health_care/

 

[Neutrino]

Good to see you again Apos. How's the campaign going for you?

Oh, and as for the original poll, I'm for Kerry all the way. I could write a huge essay as for why, but I'll just sum it up by saying that I think the Bush administration is incapable of running this country for several reasons:

1) Wouldn't sign the Koyoto treaty. (sp?)
2) In three short years managed to go from the rest of the world liking us and sympathising with us over 9/11 to everyone hating us. Great job with that one Bush. Way to strengthen the international community.
3) Went to war with a soveriegn nation, which later turned out to be completely unjustified. I'm sorry, but if you take over another country you had better have your damn facts straight beforehand.
4) Is putting us into even more debt.
5) Supports a gay marriage ban that basically spits in the face of the policy of seperation of church and state, thus creating a very dangerous precedent.
6) And more, but that's enough for me.

Basically here's what's been accomplished in the last four years in my opinion: The world hates us, the economy is crappy, we went to war and lost the lives of US soldiers and killed innocent Iraqi civilians for no reason, we have a Patriot act which pretty much violates our constitutional rights, an ammendment is trying to take rights away from citizens rather than giving them rights (a first), and lets see....did I mention already that the world hates us and Bush has basically ignored world opinion and practically made a farce of the UN, thus eroding international conditions even further?

Hmm...I think that's enough for now.

 

[DarkStar]

Blah:

I must say you are one of the most intelligent republicans I've ever discussed politics with. I may be generalizing, but alot of the time its hard to get a coherent sentence out of them.

 

[blahblahblah]

Blah:

I must say you are one of the most intelligent republicans I've ever discussed politics with. I may be generalizing, but alot of the time its hard to get a coherent sentence out of them.

I don't know if I should happy or be worried about my politicial party. lol

 

[Javert]

Sunday's Boondocks

Pretty much explains the gravity of arguments against Bush and the levity of arguments against Kerry.

 

[Tr0n]

That comic sucks!!!Garfield is better....

 

[falconwind]

I'd vote for Kerry. I have respect for a man who plays hockey and speaks fluent french. :thumbs: ... not that i can vote.

Hell, he could probably run for prime minister if he were a canadian citizen

 

[fizzlephox]

I'd vote for Kerry for numerable reasons. Although Bush did send me a mass produced picture of him with his wife that thanked me for supporting him and had a mass produced signature of his on it at the end... I never supported him. Sad thing is I've actually seen some people frame these.

 

[Wraith]

im voting nader

 

[DarkStar]

im voting nader

Please tell me you don't live in a swing state! If you live in Texas or Massachussets it doesn't matter, but if you live in a state like Florida or Iowa, please for the love of God vote for Kerry.

EDIT: OH GOD. I just noticed you do live in Florida. Don't you remember what happened last time?

 

[Shuzer]

Blah:

I must say you are one of the most intelligent republicans I've ever discussed politics with. I may be generalizing, but alot of the time its hard to get a coherent sentence out of them.

Asinine statements are awesome. This right here is the exact reason I don't partcipate in political threads.
I hear just as many stupid, short-sighted arguments from democrats as I do republicans :|

 

[crabcakes66]

im voting nader

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[DarkStar]

Asinine statements are awesome. This right here is the exact reason I don't partcipate in political threads.
I hear just as many stupid, short-sighted arguments from democrats as I do republicans :|

Damn...sorry Shuz.

I was just speaking from experience there. And I was trying to compliment Blah.

 

[Pressure]

I live in Florida and I'm gonna be voting Kerry.

 

[Neutrino]

I live in Florida and I'm gonna be voting Kerry.

:thumbs:

Make sure to punch out the right chad. Hehe, j/k.

 

[fizzlephox]

I live in Texas so I'm gonna vote for you. That's right you, the person reading this right now, will be who I vote for to be my president. Why you ask? Because I know you are a gamer with a passion. A passion for great games and great things. Someone who knows how to defeat the amassed enemy even in the most dire of circumstances. Someone I can trust to use a crowbar for peace and justice! That someone is you!

 

[Pressure]

:thumbs:

Make sure to punch out the right chad. Hehe, j/k.

Hehe, I'm not an old person. Anyway I think we got rid of the butterfly ballot and are using computers this year.

 

[crabcakes66]

Crowbar of great justice!

Power On!!!

 

[Deadline]

Yea where is that Green party guy who steals the votes from either side of the election... I wanna vote for him!

 

[h4vvok]

Visser le suffrage dans ce pays, plutôt rentrerait et habiter en ma maison dans Marseille. ... se déplaçant en fait de retour là-bas puisque les gens ne me détestent pas parce que je suis français =(.. anyone want a house in Chico, California for $225,000?

 

[CrazyHarij]

none of them

 

[Glo-Boy]

http://greenes.com/html/convert.htm

Bush scored an equivalent to a 1330 when he took the test. That is well above the 80th percentile. I'm not saying Bush didn't get help from his family, I'm saying Bush isn't a complete idiot.

That website is not reputable. Try CNN and we'll talk. 1206. And also, yes Bush is a complete idiot. Somehow he misspells words when he speaks.

I just can't get into this anymore. I'll see you at the voting polls come November. I cannot wait to get that man OUT of office.

P.S. Not saying I'm exactly "thrilled" about Kerry, but whatever, the good outweighs the bad in this situation.

 

[Icarusintel]

CNN is hardly credible, they're extremely skewed when it comes to politics

 

[Andy]

The other option that should be on there is: I don't live in the US but I think Kerry/Bush.

EDIT: BTW. In my opinion it doesn't matter if he comes across as a bit of a muppet. My greatest concern is that the man's ideas and morals make him a very, very dangerous muppet.

 

[Glo-Boy]

Yeah, but besides the BBC, what news station isn't? However, they are a LOT more credible than www.greenes.com, some budget website ran by a dude named Michael Greene which was last updated September 7th 2001.

 

[Icarusintel]

The best way is to compile material from several ones and see what fits and what doesn't, I personally look at CNN and newsmax.com every day and put the info side by side to see what stacks up and what doesn't - oh, and the BBC, come on, close, but no cigar

 

[Andy]

They say its always better to read/watch a news source that has a different political alignment to you, its more stimulating then, and if your opinions and arguments survive you will then know it is because they are valid.

 

[Vigilante]

I can see the the Bush administration is losing support (in the Half-Life 2 community, at least.)

By the way, I voted for Kerry. I have a feeling Bush Jr. will be considered historically as a bad president, for 3 reasons.

1. Questionable election. The election that brought him to power is as rocky as the Hayes/Tilden scandal. He didn't win the popular vote, many voters in Florida were disenfranchised for being black or having the same last name as unrelated criminals, and he had plenty of friends in the supreme court, who eventually put him in his position.

2. The war. We went into Iraq because we thought they had weapons of mass destruction. But woopsie, there were none!! The war is quickly becoming very unpopular now.

3. The economy. It's doing better now, but we can't ignore the fact that he made the biggest surplus our country has ever seen into the biggest deficit we've ever seen.

My 3 cents there.

I think he'll be remembered more like Raegan was, he was controversial in his time, but I mean..look at his recent funeral!

 

[Icarusintel]

I can't understand how so many people still don;t realize why we went to war in Iraq, it wasn't for oil or WMDs, it was because they violated UN resolutions and the UN was being to pansy to reinforce their own treaties, so we did, along with several other nations. I will admit that the Bush administration hasn't made that point clear enough and the media hasn't really made it at all. Pity all the misinformation out there,no wonder voters are so confused,they can't get a straight story from anyone.

 

[Warbie]

I can't understand how so many people still don;t realize why we went to war in Iraq, it wasn't for oil or WMDs, it was because they violated UN resolutions and the UN was being to pansy to reinforce their own treaties, so we did, along with several other nations. I will admit that the Bush administration hasn't made that point clear enough and the media hasn't really made it at all. Pity all the misinformation out there,no wonder voters are so confused,they can't get a straight story from anyone.

Naw - it was because of 9/11. If that hadn't happened neither would have the war.

 

[CptStern]

I dont think bush is "duh" stupid ...he's just a little bit slow and more than a bit ignorant ..he's not the best statesmen. Case in point:

Bush made a public racial slur when talking about Pakistanis

he often makes up words: "Hispanos, subliminable, transformationed"

makes contradictory or erronious remarks:

"the death tax is good for people from all walks of life!"

"It's the executive branch's job to interpret law"

gramatical errors that are appalling considering the context: "The illiteracy level of our children are appalling"


here is what some of the people close to him had to say:

Richard Perle, foreign policy adviser: "The first time I met Bush 43 … two things became clear. One, he didn't know very much. The other was that he had the confidence to ask questions that revealed he didn't know very much."

David Frum, former speechwriter: "Bush had a poor memory for facts and figures. … Fire a question at him about the specifics of his administration's policies, and he often appeared uncertain. Nobody would ever enroll him in a quiz show."

Paul O'Neill, former treasury secretary: "The only way I can describe it is that, well, the President is like a blind man in a roomful of deaf people. There is no discernible connection."



The Misunderestimated Man How Bush chose stupidity. ...a good read

 

[CyberSh33p]

Good night?!? You're normally up late keeping me company in the fourms.

IQ tests are fairly accurate within a limited section in society. In this case, SAT's are accurate for middle to upper class white Americans. If I was a poor, black person, the SAT would not properly test my intelligence because of a variety of reasons I don't want to list.

I do think he is this generations Quayle. I say we should use genetic experiments to make a perfect president. :rolling:



Guess I'm stupid then.

sorry mate, stayed up 27 hours at that point and that gave my brain a big 'F U'

I don't know what test is better or more accurate for whom, all I know is I failed my IQ test

anyhow, Its not surprising bush's popularity is taking a hit to the groin, he's not the greatest public speaker, and his image is stupid, which is far worse for him than his actual level of intelligence(which is nevertheless, not president material, I would think. we don't want a 'B' leader, like the 80th percentile whoever said)

 

[Javert]

CNN is hardly credible, they're extremely skewed when it comes to politics

Relatively speaking? No.

 

[FortisVir]

CNN skewed?

I think you need to watch FOXNews, that will give you an idea of what biased broadcasting is.

 

[clarky003]

I can't understand how so many people still don;t realize why we went to war in Iraq, it wasn't for oil or WMDs, it was because they violated UN resolutions and the UN was being to pansy to reinforce their own treaties, so we did, along with several other nations. .

lol, bollocks is that the reason , obviously you dont understand how capitalist society works.

Naw - it was because of 9/11. If that hadn't happened neither would have the war.

naw , even if it didnt happen they would of done it for other reasons anyway at a later date, they've been itching to get into Iraq all along, 9/11 was a disastorous event, but the perfect excuse to capitalise.

CNN skewed?

I think you need to watch FOXNews, that will give you an idea of what biased broadcasting is

there both biased in there own way , thats politics for you.

but how biased? thats more of a personal opinion

but any intelligent person puts them both under scrutiny, baring in mind , and I say again, this is a capitalist society.