Man raped his dying stepdaughter

[Nu Zalem]

9 years, 10 years, or however years he gets he did something that was just sick and wrong and eneryone here knows that. Most people agreee that he should pay for his crime and it's most likely he'll suffer not just physically but probably contemplate what he did to that girl and feel guilty for the rest of his life (if he's still sane). I'm sure even you agree to that don't you Nat Turner?

 

[NotATool]

Are you saying you feel sorry for this man?

Please don't pull off this strawman bullshit.

You see, you guys are the ones feeling sorry for the girl. She's dead! Putting him in jail for 9 years or 30 years won't change that. Get over yourselves, this isn't about how you feel about the rape this is about how we can turn this degenerate into a lawful citizen.

9 years, 10 years, or however years he gets he did something that was just sick and wrong and eneryone here knows that. Most people agreee that he should pay for his crime and it's most likely he'll suffer not just physically but probably contemplate what he did to that girl and feel guilty for the rest of his life (if he's still sane). I'm sure even you agree to that don't you Nat Turner?

Please read the following before you follow up on anything:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

Learn to argue please.

 

[Nat Turner]

9 years, 10 years, or however years he gets he did something that was just sick and wrong and eneryone here knows that. Most people agreee that he should pay for his crime and it's most likely he'll suffer not just physically but probably contemplate what he did to that girl and feel guilty for the rest of his life (if he's still sane). I'm sure even you agree to that don't you Nat Turner?

He shouldn't go to jail to "pay for his crime." He should go to rehabilitate him prevent him from doing something sick like this again.

Whether or not he completates what he did, for the rest of his life, is immaterial to the discussion.

 

[Skaadi]

Please don't pull off this strawman bullshit.

You see, you guys are the ones feeling sorry for the girl. She's dead! Putting him in jail for 9 years or 30 years won't change that. Get over yourselves, this isn't about how you feel about the rape this is about how we can turn this degenerate into a lawful citizen.



Thats bullsh*t. Are you saying that even though she was raped and is now dead we shouldnt feel sorry for her? And yes, it is how we feel about the rape, for quite a few of the people here anyway. True, jail time wont change it but the 'get over yourselves' statement, something horrible happened to her, we feel sorry, natural human response. Are you saying we shouldnt care?

 

[TheAmazingRando]

Nat Turner, if you where in charge of the penal system how would you run it? I'm just curious.

 

[spookymooky]

I don't think emotions should influence justice. So, Skaadi, I would agree with Nat and NotaTool in this argument.

Also, I haven't seen you before, Notatool. Appropriate name, and welcome to the forums.

 

[NotATool]

True, jail time wont change it but the 'get over yourselves' statement, something horrible happened to her, we feel sorry, natural human response. Are you saying we shouldnt care?

Why no! Care as you please! What you think is your business alone.

But act not as you please! Act for the good of reason and not for the primal satisfaction of your emotions, because then you are no better than that man.

Thank you for the welcome Spooky.

 

[Skaadi]

I don't think emotions should influence justice. So, Skaadi, I would agree with Nat and NotaTool in this argument.

Also, I haven't seen you before, Notatool. Appropriate name, and welcome to the forums.

Its not about emotions. Its about the fact that what he did was disgusting and unforgiveable.

And NotATool, I have a question, if something like that happened to someone you loved, wouldnt you want them to go to jail for a long time, or be put to death?

 

[Uriel]

Just shoot him. People like that cant be allowed to live.
No tolerance

 

[spookymooky]

I’d answer you question like this, Skaadi, if you posed it to me.: What he feels in inconsequential. One of the principal points of government and a legal system is exactly what you’ve just touched on: the elimination of vigilantism, and promotion of a system of punishment based on reason, rather than emotion.

 

[NotATool]

And NotATool, I have a question, if something like that happened to someone you loved, wouldnt you want them to go to jail for a long time, or be put to death?

What I want and what is best are not always the same.

 

[TheAmazingRando]

NotAtool and Nat Turner if you where in control of the penal system how would you run it?

 

[15357]

He really should be slowly run over with a tank.

 

[AzzMan]

Rapists arent human as far as I'm concerned. Once one always one. Kill all the pieces of shit.

 

[Nat Turner]

NotAtool and Nat Turner if you where in control of the penal system how would you run it?

I don't think I really know enough to answer that question well or accurately. One of the things I'd do is try to make the conditions as good as possible.

 

[Nat Turner]

Rapists arent human as far as I'm concerned. Once one always one. Kill all the pieces of shit.

That's a terrible stance. Just letting you know. All humans are human.

 

[15357]

I don't think I really know enough to answer that question well or accurately. One of the things I'd do is try to make the conditions as good as possible.

For the scum of the earth? Its a prison, not a hotel.


Personally, I'd make them work, for society.

 

[Skaadi]

If I may presume to answer this question, I’d say this: What he feels in inconsequential. One of the principal points of government and a legal system is exactly what you’ve just touched on: the elimination of vigilantism, and promotion of a system of punishment based on reason, rather than emotion.

Thats not what I was asking, I was asking for his personal opinion.

 

[TheAmazingRando]

Here is a question for everyone here:

Is the current justice system of the United States there for Rehabilitation of convicted offenders or a method of Punishment by keeping them excluded from society for the length of their sentence?

 

[15357]

Here is a question for everyone here:

Is the current justice system of the United States there for Rehabilitation of convicted offenders or a method of Punishment by keeping them excluded from society for the length of their sentence?

For the short term convicts, I'd say mostly rehab.

For the long term covicts, I'd say punishment.

 

[AzzMan]

That's a terrible stance. Just letting you know. All humans are human.

I could line up 1000 rapists and gun them down without a shred of remorse while hearing them scream for their lives. If thats not justice without emotion idk what is.

I mean, there are people who steal, and get more time than rapists/murderers. How exactly do you justify that?

 

[Nat Turner]

I could line up 1000 rapists and gun them down without a shred of remorse while hearing them scream for their lives. If thats not justice without emotion idk what is.

I mean, there are people who steal, and get more time than rapists/murderers. How exactly do you justify that?

Because, in many respects, rape is more justifiable than hunting or killing unthreatening sentient animals .

 

[NotATool]

NotAtool and Nat Turner if you where in control of the penal system how would you run it?

That's a very intersting question that I need to think a little more about.

I think I would emphasize rehabilitation. The prison system, in my opinion, is unfit for such process. All prisoners want once they get in is to get out because of how miserable they are. And once they're out who knows what they'll do after being treated like animals for years.

I also have some qualms with a strict law with given sentences. The issue with the law is that often its hundreds of years old, but the cases we are presented with are very much contemporary.

I also oppose unproffesional juries. I once watched a small segment of the Scott Peterson case in which member of the jury were speaking (for reasons unkown to me, I just clicked in mid-hour) and the poor souls were absolutely emotional devastated by the entire ordeal. How anyone in those emotional conditions could rationate a sentence and dictate the rest of a man's life, to me, was very hard to understand. In addition, I think it's plain unfair for them to have suffered so much on national TV.

 

[AzzMan]

Because rape is more justifiable than hunting or killing unthreatening sentient animals .

???? stealing = hunting sentient animals?:rolling:

 

[AzzMan]

And out of curiosity, how exactly do you justify rape?

 

[Nat Turner]

???? stealing = hunting sentient animals?:rolling:

No, I'm just pointing out that simply because you think something like rape is the second most appalling action possible, it doesn't make it true.

 

[Nat Turner]

???? stealing = hunting sentient animals?:rolling:

Well, they are both wrong. One is illegal and the other isn't.

 

[15357]

That's a very intersting question that I need to think a little more about.

I think I would emphasize rehabilitation. The prison system, in my opinion, is unfit for such process. All prisoners want once they get in is to get out because of how miserable they are. And once they're out who knows what they'll do after being treated like animals for years.

I also have some qualms with a strict law with given sentences. The issue with the law is that often its hundreds of years old, but the cases we are presented with are very much contemporary.

I also oppose unproffesional juries. I once watched a small segment of the Scott Peterson case in which member of the jury were speaking (for reasons unkown to me, I just clicked in mid-hour) and the poor souls were absolutely emotional devastated by the entire ordeal. How anyone in those emotional conditions could rationate a sentence and dictate the rest of a man's life, to me, was very hard to understand. In addition, I think it's plain unfair for them to have suffered so much on national TV.

If you don't want punishment, humiliation, and suffering, OBEY THE ****ING LAW!


EDIT: I oppose juries too. They make moronic mistakes from time to time.

 

[AzzMan]

Thats not what i was asking, I asked how do you justify theives getting tougher sentences than rapists?

 

[NotATool]

And out of curiosity, how exactly do you justify rape?

How do you justify genocide, AKA killing 1000 rapists just because you're to moronic to reason out an intelligent alternative?

 

[NotATool]

If you don't want punishment, humiliation, and suffering, OBEY THE ****ING LAW!

Aren't you from singapore? Should you even be allowed in this argument? (joke :thumbs: )

The problem is that people don't think long term, so harsher punishment does not mean less crime. Look at Stalin's goulags. He basically shot anyone who came late to work, yet he ended up shooting 20 million of his own people! Shouldn't russians have reasoned out, after the first 100 or so executions, or at least in the hundred thousands, that they were supposed to restrain from breaking the law? That's not how people think.

 

[Darkside55]

Sickening. It's an abhorrent crime, but I think the sentence fits. He didn't kill her; he's being sentenced only for his crime, the rape. It's moot anyway because, as some people have already mentioned, it's likely he'll be murdered by his fellow inmates.

Rando, I think it's the former; prison's there to keep criminals confined. The idea of rehabilitating prisoners and reintroducing them into society is certainly a nice idea, but flawed. It does not work as well or as often as it should. The number of repeat offenders can attest to that.

Also, something no one's really brought up here...that girl was unconcious from a cocktail of alchohol and drugs. Doesn't really have too much significance to the stepfather except for being what made her unconcious, but I thought I'd just emphasize that. (Also before anyone gets the wrong idea I'm not saying that since she took all that it's her fault for being unconcious, and therefore indirectly asking to be raped or any nonsense like that. Just thought I'd point it out.)

 

[AzzMan]

Tell me exactly what good do they do for society?

 

[madog]

Death sucks

 

[Skaadi]

Aren't you from singapore? Should you even be allowed in this argument? (joke :thumbs: )

.

He's Korean

 

[AzzMan]

Also, I wouldnt be suprised if he was the one who gave her the alcohol/drugs.

Supplying alcohol/drugs to a minor, rape (of a minor btw), murder, wow I would have a blast with this guy if I were a judge.

 

[Nat Turner]

Thats not what i was asking, I asked how do you justify theives getting tougher sentences than rapists?

Ok.

Stealing someone's property (like can his very expensive car for example) can result in him losing possibly years of hard labor. The person may even starve to death in an extreme situation if he no longer has assets. In minor cases stealing doesn't affect someone much at all, although it still egregiously violates his rights.

Raping someone, in a worst case scenario, completely devastates the victim emotionally and permanently. No lasting physical harm is done (in a pure rape situation). But in many cases, both parties are somewhat responsible (note: reponsible, not at fault). If the girl is drunk, and seduces him, and later calls it rape, then clearly it isn't *that* severe of a crime. If the girl is 17, and the guy is 18, and they have sex, that instance of "rape" is simply ridiculous and shouldn't be criminal at all.

In some societies, all rape is acceptable. Why do you think in Muslim countries women are kept covered from head to toe, and must be escorted around by men? Why do you think the Romans made several beautiful paintings glorifying rape? Why do the Romans and ancient Greeks have stories and myths glorifying rape?

I'm just pointing out that there's a wide variety of interpretations for situations of rape and theft. Often the crime of theft is more severe than the crime of rape.

 

[15357]

Aren't you from singapore? Should you even be allowed in this argument? (joke :thumbs: )

The problem is that people don't think long term, so harsher punishment does not mean less crime. Look at Stalin's goulags. He basically shot anyone who came late to work, yet he ended up shooting 20 million of his own people! Shouldn't russians have reasoned out, after the first 100 or so executions, or at least in the hundred thousands, that they were supposed to restrain from breaking the law? That's not how people think.

No, I'm from the Republic of Korea.


That rather amazes me seeing that people can be so stupid.

 

[NotATool]

Tell me exactly what good do they do for society?

You miss the point, we think that after a few years, he will no longer have rapist tendencies and will function as a part of society.

Now what good does a fully functional part of society do in prison? He just lies around and whipes his behind with my tax dollars.

 

[15357]

You miss the point, we think that after a few years, he will no longer have rapist tendencies and will function as a part of society.

Now what good does a fully functional part of society do in prison? He just lies around and whipes his behind with my tax dollars.

That is why we need to have prisoners do hard labor in prisons. As I'v said, prisons are not hotels.