Mass Effect 2

[Paulaner]

What we need is a new way to develop believable worlds with little effort and time. Devs have to handcraft every single planet, you know how much time that probably takes?

You are talking about procedurally created universes and super smart AI. You give some (complex) rules and the CPU does the rest. Such worlds would be non-deterministic and maybe this is not what we need to have fun with this kind of story driven RPGs.
When it comes to having fun and enjoying a good story, I can live with the current limitations.

 

[StarBob]

You are talking about procedurally created universes and super smart AI. You give some (complex) rules and the CPU does the rest. Such worlds would be non-deterministic and maybe this is not what we need to have fun with this kind of story driven RPGs.
When it comes to having fun and enjoying a good story, I can live with the current limitations.

There's no reason there can't be both. Once this AI-created element is implemented, it can be a side portion while the main story quest continues. I mean there coudl be a few story tie-ins with randomly generated regions... something like "find this" or "destroy that." It's not impossible to integrate procedurally generated content in to a fairly linear story structure. I like both, but the former will offer tons of replayability. There aren't many games like that though.

 

[Paulaner]

There's no reason there can't be both. Once this AI-created element is implemented, it can be a side portion while the main story quest continues. I mean there coudl be a few story tie-ins with randomly generated regions... something like "find this" or "destroy that." It's not impossible to integrate procedurally generated content in to a fairly linear story structure. I like both, but the former will offer tons of replayability. There aren't many games like that though.

There is space for experiments.

 

[Dr.Demento]

Somewhere in the sands of time the use of AI random generation was lost. It used to be the big thing though it was fairly weak... but it had a lot of potential. Now you rarely see it. I mean Left 4 Dead 2 kind of tried to bring it back, but there are like a dozen minor variations to each map. I think if people had been working on randomly generated maps for a longer period of time there would be a lot better replayablility these days. Not only in single and multiplayer PVE, but also in multiplayer PVP. I mean this might blow your mind but... imagine your favorite multiplayer shoot'em up (think TF2, MW2, BFBC2 (so many 2s)) with maps that are randomly generated/altered significantly before the game starts. It would make me want to play games more knowing that you're not always going to hit the same choke points and camping spots everytime.

Just a thought... and I doubt anyone will work on it any time soon because my ideas are always abandoned. Maybe they'll do something like it in Diablo 3... even though we're already used to it and it wasn't anything amazing in Diablo 2. Of course, think of how boring it would have been if you kept running the same exact dungeons every time. A game that I really wish had it was Borderlands.

Random generation was also used in the Dark Cloud series. Dungeons created this way suck because they lack any detail or any sense of consistency and it just feels like the dev team was just being lazy.

The A.I. I'm talking about would be done on a developer level and not actually included in-game. What I mean is a one-time world generator based on similar real life principles and laws that govern real life such as physical science, combined with a robust graphical engine that can handle anything the AI throws at it. It's main purpose would be to create a much larger world in a shorter time-frame rather than simply just a short-cut. I'm talking 100x the size of just about every sandbox game out there. Every building, every room, every nook and cranny and more correctly scaled landscapes and cities.

 

[Remus]

I'm talking 100x the size of just about every sandbox game out there.

Actually I think the size of current sandbox worlds is fine. The problem is the detail (buildings, people, etc.), and the interactivity. I would love a GTA style game where if you wanted you could go absolutely anywhere. Like you said every room, to be accessible.


I'm sure that at some point in the future We'll have games like Mass Effect, where you can explore entire planets if we wanted.

 

[Dr.Demento]

Actually I think the size of current sandbox worlds is fine. The problem is the detail (buildings, people, etc.), and the interactivity. I would love a GTA style game where if you wanted you could go absolutely anywhere. Like you said every room, to be accessible.


I'm sure that at some point in the future We'll have games like Mass Effect, where you can explore entire planets if we wanted.

...but to achieve that level of detail in games would almost be the same as increasing the scope of the landscape in terms of storage. my 100x percentile size estimate = both scope and detail.

It would take Terrabytes of storage to make a game that big. Our storage and processor technology still has a loooooooong way to go to catch up with that kind of ambition.

 

[StarBob]

Random generation was also used in the Dark Cloud series. Dungeons created this way suck because they lack any detail or any sense of consistency and it just feels like the dev team was just being lazy.

The A.I. I'm talking about would be done on a developer level and not actually included in-game. What I mean is a one-time world generator based on similar real life principles and laws that govern real life such as physical science, combined with a robust graphical engine that can handle anything the AI throws at it. It's main purpose would be to create a much larger world in a shorter time-frame rather than simply just a short-cut. I'm talking 100x the size of just about every sandbox game out there. Every building, every room, every nook and cranny and more correctly scaled landscapes and cities.

Yeah I remember Dark Cloud. There have been other games with this feature that I have taken a similar path as well. In my mind I was thinking more along the styling of L4D2's AI system that changes landscape and enemy density/actions depending on the players. Here's a simple example: You have Planet A - a terrestrial jungle-style planet with secluded colonies. Your objective is to find a source of blah because you need it for bleh. You drop on the planet near a colony then head out into a dynamically generated wilderness with dynamic enemies. This way you could return and go a different way to find new bleh or whatever.

This system works well when you have things you actually want and need instead of a virutally automated mini-inventory and most rpg elements stripped away. There would be no incentive except to fight more things with no reward. However, it does allow the player to enjoy more of the combat elements.

It really comes down to execution though. I think Bioware could do it just because they do things well, but they're all about linear gameplay and they do that like nobody's business. Plus I'm not sure if their fanbase would embrace is as much as I would.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Actually I think the size of current sandbox worlds is fine. The problem is the detail (buildings, people, etc.), and the interactivity. I would love a GTA style game where if you wanted you could go absolutely anywhere. Like you said every room, to be accessible.

There was an engine being developed that did exactly this (generating detailed indoor environments in large cities), was posted around here a while ago, but the only links I can find are broken or removed...

Anyone know what I'm talking about? D:

 

[Gargantou]

There was an engine being developed that did exactly this (generating detailed indoor environments in large cities), was posted around here a while ago, but the only links I can find are broken or removed...

Anyone know what I'm talking about? D:

Subversion, by Introversion, it generates an entire city and the entire indoor areas for the buildings, lobbies, offices, people, elevators, etc etc.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Nah, not what I was thinking of, but that looks good too. This one created detailed, textured indoor environments: doors, desks, chairs, book cases with books etc. The guy in the demo also had a gun and was blowing out walls and stuff.

Any case, there are definitely people working on that kind of thing. Just need to wait for some dev (Rockstar... please be Rockstar) to pick up the tech and run with it.

 

[Remus]

Just need to wait for some dev (Rockstar... please be Rockstar) to pick up the tech and run with it.

Some random newby dev will pick it up, implement it poorly. The game will suck. The idea will be considered garbage and be buried for a decade.

 

[Gargantou]

Nah, not what I was thinking of, but that looks good too. This one created detailed, textured indoor environments: doors, desks, chairs, book cases with books etc. The guy in the demo also had a gun and was blowing out walls and stuff.

Any case, there are definitely people working on that kind of thing. Just need to wait for some dev (Rockstar... please be Rockstar) to pick up the tech and run with it.

Structure (http://www.proceduralcity.com/) - a procedural system for city generation including destroyable building interiors (written by Marco Corbetta). (Not available to Public anymore)

Might have been that.

Given that it's not available to the public anymore, might that be an indicator that a commercial company bought the software/hired the developers for implementation in future games?

 

[Bad^Hat]

I think that was it, yeah. Could be.

 

[Apocalypse89]

I just picked up ME2 again, and noticed that the Overlord DLC has been out for a while. How is it? I've heard a few good things about it, but I haven't read enough to really know if it's worth buying. It certainly looks more attractive than the random ammo/armor DLC that keep coming out otherwise.

Also, is can you play it after you finish the game?

 

[VictimOfScience]

I think that was it, yeah. Could be.

I think that was it too. It was HUGE and he was flying everywhere and then blowing chunks out of things. The graphics didn't frankly look that great, but given what was going on behind the scenes it was pretty impressive.

 

[Remus]

Also, is can you play it after you finish the game?

After you do the final mission, you can either continue, and finish any side quests that are left, or start a new game with your current upgraded character.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

I just picked up ME2 again, and noticed that the Overlord DLC has been out for a while. How is it? I've heard a few good things about it, but I haven't read enough to really know if it's worth buying. It certainly looks more attractive than the random ammo/armor DLC that keep coming out otherwise.

Also, can you play it after you finish the game?

It's quite good - there's three separate areas for you to drive the hammerhead around, this time with some platforming elements to spice some things up a bit, though nothing too onerous (lift jets, hidden areas, timed jumps across lava, etc).

There are also four new fighting areas - a downed geth ship that has a long-running scene similar to the alien movies or event horizon, a power plant (which is very short - about 5mins, tops), the initial area (typical science facility + a broadcast dish fight scene) and the final area (in which Shepard gets an .. interesting .. change of viewpoint halfway through, as well as a decent boss fight).

I completed the overall DLC in about a hour or two, though I missed some stuff on the hammerhead mission. The final scene will likely impact ME3 as well I think - especially since the scene was quite grim dark by ME2 standards.

NB : All the DLC missions are available after you finish the game, though it's better to do them earlier on so you can choose their characters for the main missions.

 

[Tony]

New Liara/Shadow Broker DLC announced

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/110/1107795p1.html

Wonder if Shepard's romance choices will factor into this.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

New Liara/Shadow Broker DLC announced

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/110/1107795p1.html

Wonder if Shepard's romance choices will factor into this.

I hope so. Was a bit pissed at how they handled that, to be honest. That's why my Shepard slept around afterwards.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Well at least she's actually wearing something that looks at least vaugely armoured. Seriously, the squad is rolling around combat zones and the PC is wearing enough armour to make a small battleship out of while half the squad seems to be wearing as little as possible. This departure from the first game, where everyone was sensible enough to have a hardsuit when they're going to get shot at was most disapointing to me.

Anyway, finally got round to completing this. Largely, very impressive. Very few complaints and mostly they're just nit-picking (like the above one). Roll on Mass Effect 3.

 

[brad92]

New information regarding 'Lair of the Shadow Broker'.

It looks to be quite substantial!

I am greatly anticipating it.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/129/index/4546420&lf=8

 

[knut]

is the DLC any good for this? my friend is borrowing it at the moment but when i get it back i'm going to restart and play through again, only i might activate all the available DLC... does it make the playthrough any better what with new characters and such? can you aquire new items mid way through the game and take them to the end and potentially lose them in the ship battle/boarding action, etc? i haven't really read into it.

 

[brad92]

Overlord, Kasumi, the Firepower Pack (and possibly Zaeed) are all strong additions.

 

[Kakashi]

"'Lair of the Shadow Broker'" is now available today. Anyone bought the DLC yet? I'm thinking about going home later and downloading. It's supposed to start forwarding the story onto Mass Effect 3.

In Mass Effect 2 “Lair of the Shadow Broker”, you will once again be able to journey with Liara T’Soni and continue a relationship with her from Mass Effect 1. Liara needs help in tracking the Shadow Broker, and help recover a helpless victim; needing the aid of Commander Shepard and the Normandy SR2 crew if she wants to be successful in confronting the mysterious Shadow Broker. The DLC pack also includes the Shadow Broker intel center and new research.

 

[Rizzo]

I'm pretty pissed that I lost all my save games when my computer broke... Need another playthrough now I guess.

 

[Acepilotf14]

My 360 broke and I sold ME2, so whatever. I just need to rebuy it on Steam sometime before ME3 comes out.

 

[Dr.Demento]

Which reminds me, I should get around to finishing ME2 someday and forget about other games until then.

 

[StarBob]

Anyone try it yet? Is it any good? I might grab it this weekend...

 

[Quixoticism]

I keep missing the sales for ME1 as I want to get it before I buy this. The demo rocked though and I plan on getting it either when it goes on sale or I buy and finish the first game.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

Anyone try it yet? Is it any good? I might grab it this weekend...

Yeah its good, probably the best dlc so far. Admittedly it might be a bit expensive for 800 points given the length, its only really slightly longer than the other dlc packs =/

 

[unozero]

man I'm happy with having to buy all this stuff separately I hope they come with a disc version for the DLC.

 

[Gargantou]

Personally I don't think I'm gonna get the DLC though I like the franchise, ME1 DLCs were very meh and with so many good games out these past months and coming out, it just seems like a waste of cash to me.

 

[jimbo118]

Personally I don't think I'm gonna get the DLC though I like the franchise, ME1 DLCs were very meh and with so many good games out these past months

Like what? Has been a bleak period of no gaemz for me the last few months.

 

[Avoidist]

Wow, the new DLC is actually pretty good. The only problem I see is this pretty much needed to be in the main game, it's way too important to the story for only a fraction of the players to have seen it. Definitely worth the points if you enjoyed the game and DLC so far (or at least Overlord).

Also, how freaking cool is that ship?

 

[jimbo118]

Reviews have been very good so far.

 

[Wanted Bob]

The positive reception of this DLC makes me tempted to play through ME2 again. I have a confusing situation though:

If I remember correctly, you can do a "New Game +" in ME2 with a character you beat the game with. This is what I'd want to do if I ever decided to play through again. In my first playthrough I imported a character I had from the first game, so all the choices I made were represented in there.

If I start this new game, will this character also have the imported choices from the first game? In ME1 I romanced Liara, and would love the chance to pick that back up in ME2 DLC.

 

[Gargantou]

Like what? Has been a bleak period of no gaemz for me the last few months.

Halo: Reach, Dead Rising 2, MySims SkyHeroes, Amnesia: Dark Descent to name some.

 

[jimbo118]

Oh yeah, they are coming out, halo and dead rising, but the previous few months have sucked imo.

Summer of no gaemz.

 

[Gargantou]

True enough.

 

[Nabobalis]

Well I liked the DLC. It had alot more to it then the Witch Hunter DLC for DA>