MGS story.

Rose would have been a lot less annoying if she didn't bring up "what day it was" every ****ing conversation you had, even after you did something as simple as saving your game.

It wasn't really MGS2's story that made me dislike it, heck, a good mind**** from time to time is pretty fun. And hell, I could even tolerate Raiden. It was the monotonous gameplay that got me, essentially you were just running around a small oil tanker for 12 hours doing frustrating tasks and watching long cutscenes. It just didn't work for me.
 
Eh, however long it took, either way my point was that the setting didn't have enough variety to relate to the story and time to complete.
 
The first time through it takes about 12-15 for most people. Second time it should only take about 3.

And yeah, I really hated that whole Rose thing. Still, MGS2 is the best game ever made. The gameplay is just absolutely perfect, I still play through it again from time to time. The plot, despite its' huge amount of flaws, is still about as good as it gets for video games. There are a few games that have better plots, but the combination of the two just make it the best damn game ever.

Random rant note:
And I don't want some annoying mother ****er telling me that's only my opinion. NO SHIT. People don't have to expressly inform you that a statement they just made is an opinion, much less that it belongs to them. Figure it out.

If you don't like what someone says, just say you think they're wrong. Pointing out that the grouping of sentences they just put together form an opinion is not a counter-argument.
 
Slacker said:
Rose would have been a lot less annoying if she didn't bring up "what day it was" every ****ing conversation you had, even after you did something as simple as saving your game.

It wasn't really MGS2's story that made me dislike it, heck, a good mind**** from time to time is pretty fun. And hell, I could even tolerate Raiden. It was the monotonous gameplay that got me, essentially you were just running around a small oil tanker for 12 hours doing frustrating tasks and watching long cutscenes. It just didn't work for me.
Click to expand...

I appreciate a good mind****, headtrip, whatever you want to call it.

They shouldn't, however, piss me off.

The last segment of the game did initially surprise me. But after that initial feeling wore off, I just started to feel cheated. More accurately, I felt like Kojima was trying to make me his bitch with his mind games. Aside from the conversation with Colonel (which was cool because it's a ****ing skeleton talking about natural selection and shit), little else before or after it left a decent taste in my mouth. Not to mention the merry-go-round of backstabs, where Sears was betraying Dead Cell, then Ocelot betrayed Sears, then the Patriots betray Ocelot, and blah blah blah... I kept waiting for the game to descend back somewhere into the realm of sanity. Instead I get smooth jazz. Weak.
 
Absinthe said:
It's not ****ing Schindler's List. That's the point.

Kojima seems either obsessed with head-****ing his audience (MGS2) or clunkily hammering long-winded social-political messages into relatively bland gameplay (Pretty much every MGS game). He's trying, bless him. But the result is heavy-handed garbage. And I don't care what you say, but Raiden was a bad idea. Pure and simple. There are gray areas where people can have differing opinions, but he is not one of them. He was an annoying, unsympathetic shit and it was horrible design to force you into his shoes for the majority of the game.
Click to expand...
Wow, what's up with the ****ing?:LOL: Besides, where the **** did I ever ****ing state that it ****ing IS Schindler's List?!:LOL::LOL: But w/e, to each ****ing man his ****ing own, I enjoy the ****ing stories and such in the ****ing MGS games, it's ****ing important to remember everyone ****ing have different ****ing tastes :) What I don't get is why some ****ing people insist on jumping into every ****ing MGS thread and saying that the ****ing storywriting ****ing sucks etc, fine, you ****ing think it ****ing sucks, but why the **** do you have this great need to force everyone to know your opinion? But w/e, no point in ****ing arguing with Samon any****ingway.
Yes, I am extremely bored and an immature jerk at the mo. so sue me please.
 
The only thing I really found stupid was what Abigail was talking about with the betrayals and love triangles. Vamp, who may be in love with Fortune was also the lover of her father :|. Otacon, half brother of Emma, had sex with her mother :|.

See, that's really unnecessary. Hot, but unnecessary.
 
Haha Vamp... I'm still confused as to how the **** does he fit into the MGS2 plotline.
 
AiM said:
Haha Vamp... I'm still confused as to how the **** does he fit into the MGS2 plotline.
Click to expand...

He doesn't. He's just like Fortune, that fat guy on the rollerblades, and every other character that wasn't Snake, Raiden, Otacon, Emma, or Solidus. Just there to make the story seem more deep and surreal.
 
The Patriots needed Snake and Raiden alive. Fortune didn't actually stop those missiles.

Vamp, yes, is a mystery.

And Fat Man fits in with Peter since he was once his student. Fat Man doesn't even play to the Patriots plot. He's a "variable."
 
DeusExMachina said:
The Patriots needed Snake and Raiden alive. Fortune didn't actually stop those missiles.

Vamp, yes, is a mystery.

And Fat Man fits in with Peter since he was once his student. Fat Man doesn't even play to the Patriots plot. He's a "variable."
Click to expand...

yeah thats one point of the game everything hav atleast a litle purpose and meaning

spoilers begins here

for example in the end when the AI start to talk to raiden and say about you are the kind of people we want to protect, is cuz all the situation was done to show what will hapened if the patriots loose control or something like that

but the principal is that raiden was suposed to represent the normal people,the people that go and do its life and stuff like that,and it was trown in that big confussing situation to see the results

and I heard that even kojima made the plot confusing to give the player the same level of confusiong as raiden
 
Gargantou said:
Wow, what's up with the ****ing?:LOL: Besides, where the **** did I ever ****ing state that it ****ing IS Schindler's List?!:LOL::LOL: But w/e, to each ****ing man his ****ing own, I enjoy the ****ing stories and such in the ****ing MGS games, it's ****ing important to remember everyone ****ing have different ****ing tastes :) What I don't get is why some ****ing people insist on jumping into every ****ing MGS thread and saying that the ****ing storywriting ****ing sucks etc, fine, you ****ing think it ****ing sucks, but why the **** do you have this great need to force everyone to know your opinion? But w/e, no point in ****ing arguing with Samon any****ingway.
Yes, I am extremely bored and an immature jerk at the mo. so sue me please.
Click to expand...

I'm not forcing my opinion on anybody. Just because I swear and act acerbic doesn't mean I don't recognize my views are relegated to the confines of my opinion.

Don't cry just because some people will jump into MGS topics and say the story sucks. Because contrary to what a lot of people may think on this forum, not every topic dedicated to a game is meant to be a love shrine.
 
Absinthe, where were you given the impression that I was crying? I was just severly bored and writing all those tons of ****s was a way of amuzing myself.:D
 
I nearly completed Metal Gear Solid, but I was about seven and I skipped all the cutscenes. Now I don't have a clue what's going on.
 
I got seriously lost with MGS2. At first I'm watching cool, action packed cutscenes and doing awesome stuff like... well, I dunno, just awesome stuff. Next thing I know Raiden is naked in some complex, my radio is ****ing up and then I'm in some 3D graphic room with lots of Metal Gears running around firing missiles at me. Then we're in New York fighting Big Boss, which was cool if horribly easy, and then theres this HUUUUUUUUGE freakin' conversation which I tuned right out of.
 
Jangle said:
I nearly completed Metal Gear Solid, but I was about seven and I skipped all the cutscenes. Now I don't have a clue what's going on.
Click to expand...

I'll fill you in on what I know if you want.

Does anyone know who the new guy is in MGS4? The younger guy wearing snake's suit at the end of one of the trailers.
 
Most likely a young Snake, but with Hideo... you never know. :O

I guess you play as that Snake for a brief moment at the start of the game, or similar, then something happens (or just skips forward in time) and you end up playing as the grandpa.
 
The thing is, this guy is younger than Snake in MGS1, you see Snake before the mission being told his body is decaying and he has 6 months left to live. Plus while he looks similar to Snake, I don't think it's him.
 
Well he looks younger to me, which is what I meant to type.
 
Unlikely, but it may tie back into the Big Boss storyline from MGS3 and retread over Outer Haven, letting you play that part.

But the suit he was wearing ... I guess that's not it. Never know though, the trailers could be entirely misleading. With MGS2 they used actual game assets but completely changed the caracters and environments around (ie. the harrier fight was with Snake on the bridge you jump off of in the beginning, not with Raiden at the Plant).
 
Raiden spent his life in a training simulator. The point was that he is damaged goods, and the storyline puts that across far better than, say, anakin in the star wars prequels.
It would have been twelve hours of Hayden Christiansen, were the story not done as well as it was.
Again, however, I had no problems whatsoever with Raiden as a character. He was believeable and interesting.

Meanwhile, Rose is a glorified Smarterchild. I'd say that her annoying qualities were intentional as well, although I doubt anyone could have anticipated the extreme rage that talking to the character would generate in some people.
I found the conversations to be completely conventional and occasionally funny, and they helped to establish and maintain the important background information about both her and Raiden that's almost essential to the storyline and the themes of the game.

I mean what, specifically would you change about the game to make it adequate enough?

Judging from this thread, these are the recommendations:
-Antagonize japanese culture.
-Make the bosses less weird.
-Remove most of the dialogue and character development.
-Remove things that are intentionally confusing.
-Make it extremely clear that Raiden is heterosexual. But also remove all references to his ever having a longstanding relationship with a female.
-Change the gameplay also.

Well heck, the good news is that I've cobbled together a "Special Edition" with all those features!

I call it Bad Dudes!

Absinthe said:
Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing who is calling me until it's too late. So while I'm hoping Peter Stillman - who is one sly brother - is ringing from the other end, I instead find Rose. That evil ****ing harlot. So all I'm left with is furiously mashing down the buttons of my controller to skip past her drivel about how I'm not honest with her, or how I don't know her birthday, or wether or not she's fat, or how her tampon is lodged up her crotch at an uncomfortable angle.
When Raiden meets up with her at the very end of the game to hold hands and proclaim their love, I was hoping he'd sucker punch her in the womb to preempt the abominable critter of their union.
Click to expand...

Of course, misogyny! That's what the game needs!

Jesus, the character has maybe three minutes of some pretty average relationship dialogue and people act like they've been forcefed the entire olsen twins filmography via the theatre from clockwork orange.
 
Best part about the entire Rose/Raiden thing was hiding in the locker with the picture of the super model on pasted on and calling her, she wont let you save anymore, it's gold :D. Sometimes I think the devs were mocking the way white america handles relationships (or just people in general).
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Of course, misogyny! That's what the game needs!
Click to expand...

It would be terribly out of place and the game would be worse for it. But I don't deny it would appeal to a small part of me.

Jesus, the character has maybe three minutes of some pretty average relationship dialogue and people act like they've been forcefed the entire olsen twins filmography via the theatre from clockwork orange.
Click to expand...

Because she was that horrible. Or my annoyance with her was compounded by everything else. Not good either way.

I wouldn't bother changing anything about the game because, as you've demonstrated, that would essentially be an entire overhaul (although I really couldn't care about Raiden's sexual orientation). I just don't bother with the series any more. :p
 
Three minutes of that drivel or not, it still shouldn't be on you're radio waves whilst you're on a mission. It's just... stupid. It's not what you'd get on some top secret, high priority, end-of-the-world at stake mission. Thats like broadcasting Radio 2/3/whatever chat channels into the headsets of artillery gunners.
 
It wasn't three minutes for the whole game. It was every single time you save. If you mean each conversation was about three minutes, then yeah give or take.

And I'm sorry Mech, but Raiden isn't "believable and interesting." Let's cover the first point first. Secret agents do not have long flowing blonde hair, whine about every little thing, and generally act like an anime character - especially if they've had the kind of past Raiden supposedly did. Secondly, interesting ... if generic pretty boy slightly homosexual anime hero is interesting, then so be it.

As far as the constant conversations, also terrible. One of the worst parts of the game. They were long, extremely annoying, pointless, and added nothing whatsoever to the story or atmosphere (well that's not true, it pretty much killed the atmosphere). Once again, having to deal with a nagging girlfriend while on a secret mission to save the president is ****ING STUPID. I'm sorry, I can't say it any other way, just dumb.

Then there's the other various stupid, stupid things he chose to do. Things like Liquid coming back to life through an amputated arm that had been dead for god knows how long (oh yeah, and the lack of any neurological functions to begin with). Then there's the really silly boss characters, but I didn't mind them so bad, and to be honest MGS3's were even worse (the bumble bee whisperer anyone?).

And all this from a guy who calls MGS2 his favorite game, because I really do believe it is the best game ever made. The thing is, while the plot is much better than much anything else in the videogame market ... it's still the equivalent of a trash sci-fi novel.
 
I really dont understand the hate to raiden
"OMFG he is not believable and is blonde and acts like a gay"

well not everyone in the game is believable
and snake dont hav short hair either
and posibly the convertation where made for that purpose of anoy
 
The plot is quite frankly stupid. Liquid living on through an arm? Fat man on rollerblades? It's just silly.

smwScott said:
The thing is, while the plot is much better than much anything else in the videogame market ... it's still the equivalent of a trash sci-fi novel.
Click to expand...

Totally disagree.
 
I can count the number of video games with good stories/narrative on one hand. Actually, I'm gonna go ahead and do that.

1. Half-Life
2. Max Payne
3. Mafia
4. The Getaway
5. Grand Theft Auto
6. MGS
7. Deus Ex

So I went a little over one hand, but the point is those are just about the only games I can think of that have any kind of real value. I've already covered what I think of MGS, and the fact that I still put it up there should show just what I think about video game plots. Also, a few of those are only up there because they're either well written or funny or just do things differently, not because they're particularly great plot-wise. A prime example is Half-Life. The story is the stuff B-movies are made of, but the atmosphere and the way it's presented pulls it into a notch above the rest.

Even though we've come a long way, video games are still 99% nerdy stat based clickfests or really immature games aimed at adolescents. There's very little in the way of artistic value in this medium. Compared to movies, books, or music ... games just suck, they're glorified toys.
 
smwScott said:
The story is the stuff B-movies are made of, but the atmosphere and the way it's presented pulls it into a notch above the rest.
Click to expand...

I disagree there as well. It's far ahead of 'B-movies', thats what I'd class Doom 3 as, or Resident Evil or Quake 4. They don't have bad storylines, but they are pretty B-movie. The writing in HL2 far exceeds B-movie, and so does a few of the others on the list (unless you are simply talking the original). I agree with most of the list, but I don't see why Getaway is there (awful dialogue) and there are a few more you could easily add.
 
Dear Scott,

If HL2 is B-movie, then Max Payne is a retarded action flick and Fallout is a pulp fiction.

Sincerely,

Mikael Grizzly
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Dear Scott,

If HL2 is B-movie, then Max Payne is a retarded action flick and Fallout is a pulp fiction.

Sincerely,

Mikael Grizzly
Click to expand...

Read the whole argument and address the meaning, not just one line. Samon did, disagreed with it, and made a rebuttal. It's hard to reply to your post since you didn't really respond to what I was actually saying.

Anyway, I'm going to defend my point that the plot of HL is not that great. Scientists muck around with teleportation technology and open a dimension to another world, aliens invade. One character for no apparent reason is able to commit alien/marine genocide and blow a lot of stuff up while trying to escape, eventually killing the head alien. Not a good story, it wouldn't be out of place in a Schwarzenegger movie. I don't remember the writing being particularly amazing either. However the way it was told and the atmosphere created was amazing, making the whole greater than the sum of its' parts.

As far as The Getaway, I liked it. Not Black Monday, that was trash, but I liked the original.
 
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