MGS story.

I can see where you are coming from in terms of HL1. I really can, but that was 1998. Half-life 2 has a fantastic story with dialogue that walks over a bunch movies. I love it, and whilst it certainly uses an old concept "alien invasion of Earth" (alot of movies, books and so on have also used this) but it's how it handles it - and it handles it wonderfully. It's original and striking and it's a step in the right direction for video gaming.
 
Half-Life had a B-movie plot to it, which I'll accept because the strength of that game was in the narration rather than the story. But moving into Half-Life 2, that sort of generic sci-fi plot evolved into something far more deep and rich.
 
TheAntipop said:
It's just... stupid. It's not what you'd get on some top secret, high priority, end-of-the-world at stake mission.
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Except that the entire point of the mission was to see to what degree a computer simulation could manipulate the perceptions and emotions of a human being. Which is what Rose did.

Let's cover the first point first. Secret agents do not have long flowing blonde hair, whine about every little thing, and generally act like an anime character - especially if they've had the kind of past Raiden supposedly did. Secondly, interesting ... if generic pretty boy slightly homosexual anime hero is interesting, then so be it.
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Once again, everyone's biggest problem with raiden is that he has long hair.
Unlike Snake's mullet?
Yeah, he's looks like one a' them ho-mo-sexuals.
And since it's still 1950, that really matters to me.
Of course, I've never seen a gay man who looks anything like that (and plenty of straights who do), but then again some folks might have more experience living in a world of strange and inaccurate stereotypes.

Also, I really trust your judgement when you say a secret agent can't possibly have long hair (like big boss, solid, liquid, ocelot, vamp, and probably about ten other male characters did) in the same series where well over half of the secret agents have elaborate psychic powers and customized costumes.

I don't believe in psychic powers either, but that's why we have fiction. Either you accept that it exists within the context of the fiction, or you move on.
Basically, it's like going into the matrix and saying it's awful because real people can't dodge bullets and all the characters act like there's a race of super-robots - which is clearly impossible.
 
I really love MGS and story of this fantastic game saga. But there is still lot of things what I hate in MGS plot.

Things that make Metal Gear awesome:

Many interesting characters (Solid Snake and his brothers, Big Boss, Raiden, Otacon, Gray Fox, The Boss)
Strong monologues of your enemies (eg Liquids lines)
Philosophy and historical themes in game (genetics, Cold War, heroism...)
Great gameplay, design and many, many other things

Things that make MGS trashy:

Unrealistic characters
Unrealistic characters with superpowers (electrical Volgin, ghost Sorrow, immortal Vamp....)
Deus ex machina plot twists

Half-Life > Metal Gear
 
Absinthe said:
Half-Life had a B-movie plot to it, which I'll accept because the strength of that game was in the narration rather than the story. But moving into Half-Life 2, that sort of generic sci-fi plot evolved into something far more deep and rich.
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Yeah, but MGS had B-Movie dialogue.

"Hey...you're that ninja"

I mean, it worked for me, but yeah, it got pretty cheesy at time. I thought MGS3's dialogue was great for the most part though.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Except that the entire point of the mission was to see to what degree a computer simulation could manipulate the perceptions and emotions of a human being. Which is what Rose did.
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Oh, right. Well, like I said, I didn't take any of the end of the game in because it just got so ridiculous. It was just me running around naked, going into stupidly long corridors and rooms packed with soldiers and then leaving and running right into stupidly long amounts of dialogue packed with history and conspiricies... or something. My bad.
 
The moment I started MGS3 up to the first line I was greeted with "At the end of World War 2, the world was split into two." I knew what I was in for, and that very little had changed. I still enjoyed it though. Started slow, but it was fun.
 
The MGS series' dialogue has always swayed between being expertly written and being wooden melodrama. Not sure if a lot of that's due to translation, but certainly some cheese is going to be transcribed over.
 
Samon said:
The moment I started MGS3 up to the first line I was greeted with "At the end of World War 2, the world was split into two." I knew what I was in for, and that very little had changed. I still enjoyed it though. Started slow, but it was fun.
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How is that bad dialogue?

gtfo.
 
Please point out where I said it was bad dialogue. Oh wait, I didn't.
 
Don't think he was referring to the dialogue, necessarily. Just the impending, preachy knot of a plot.
 
Yes, MGS have often bad dialogues. But monologues in MGS are pretty awesome (Liquid, Solidus, Big Boss...).
 
Some are alright. Personally, one of my favorite pieces of dialogue in gaming is the conversation with Colonel at the end of MGS2.
 
My favorite was basically everything Snake says after he rescues you in Arsenal Gear. It was basically Hideo's own beliefs and ideas about life speaking through Snake, but I felt everything he said had truth in them.

I gotta say, MGS2 really made me examine things.
 
I'm sorry, but some of my favorite dialogue in the game came out of Young Ocelot's mouth. He was one of my very favorite characters in the entire franchise, and it was his silly one-liners such as "THIS RELOAD TIME...IS EXHILIRATING" that personified him as someone who was way too big for his britches. Plus, his conversation with the president after the credits was awesome.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Once again, everyone's biggest problem with raiden is that he has long hair.
Unlike Snake's mullet?
Yeah, he's looks like one a' them ho-mo-sexuals.
And since it's still 1950, that really matters to me.
Of course, I've never seen a gay man who looks anything like that (and plenty of straights who do), but then again some folks might have more experience living in a world of strange and inaccurate stereotypes.

Also, I really trust your judgement when you say a secret agent can't possibly have long hair (like big boss, solid, liquid, ocelot, vamp, and probably about ten other male characters did) in the same series where well over half of the secret agents have elaborate psychic powers and customized costumes.

I don't believe in psychic powers either, but that's why we have fiction. Either you accept that it exists within the context of the fiction, or you move on.
Basically, it's like going into the matrix and saying it's awful because real people can't dodge bullets and all the characters act like there's a race of super-robots - which is clearly impossible.
Click to expand...

You seem to only take what you're looking for in peoples responses. My biggest problem isn't his hair (although it's ridiculous) or the fact that he tends to act gay (which he really doesn't to be honest, just more like a ****in panzy), it's his character and personality. Here we have a totally uninteresting generic character designed to appeal the same kinds of people who like anime. Look at any anime and you'll find some stupid little retarded character like Raiden.

But hey, let's disregard the fact that his character is hackneyed and just doesn't fit in well at all with the series. He's still terrible. I do not for a second believe that someone like Raiden could have the horrid backstory he supposedly did. They're the opposite. Orphaned child soldier forced to fend for himself will not develop into a highly vain, effeminate, spoiled panzy. It doesn't matter that Snakes mullet is unrealistic, because I buy into the character. The same for Liquid, who also had long hair, I still bought into the character.

Just face it, Raiden is a terrible character. Including him is just bad fiction. If I make a historical epic and all of the sudden have an army of autistic midgets storm a fortress ... just because it's not the only unrealistic thing in the movie doesn't mean it doesn't ruin it.

Basically the arguemnt, "Either you accept that it exists within the context of the fiction, or you move on" just doesn't hold merit. It is very plausible for something such as a really stupid character or a man living via arm transplant could completely kill suspension of disbelief.
 
A great number of people firmly believe the writing and storytelling in Half-Life 2 and Half-Life 1 is exquisite.
 
Raiden's backstory and present character not fitting in was just unfortunate I think. Kojima says that the point of Raiden was so you were seeing Snake (the veteran) through the eyes of a rookie (Raiden). The child-soldier thing was to somehow tie him in to one of the other characters, which was poor but I can live with it.

You should've had 2 codec frequencies for Rose, one where she saves and maybe says a couple of lines like Mei Ling does, and one where she just talks.
 
Mei Ling <3 I'll marry Konami if they bring her back in MGS4..*Dreams*
 
Sam-2k said:
Raiden's backstory and present character not fitting in was just unfortunate I think. Kojima says that the point of Raiden was so you were seeing Snake (the veteran) through the eyes of a rookie (Raiden). The child-soldier thing was to somehow tie him in to one of the other characters, which was poor but I can live with it.
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Whilst his reasoning is sound it simply does nothing for the player. I'm sure they would rather play the kickass character, rather than watch him.
 
I would've rather played as a Snake, but that doesn't mean I didn't grow to appreciate Raiden.
 
Raiden played just fine, heck, I liked playing as him BETTER than Snake to some degree, I just wish the setting wasn't so ****ing horrible and the gameplay itself wasn't so ****ing monotonous.
 
The only difference bewteen playing as Raiden and Snake is that Raiden gets a sword and has a very gay twirl instead of a roll.
 
Gargantou said:
Mei Ling <3 I'll marry Konami if they bring her back in MGS4..*Dreams*
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They're bringing back Meryl and Naomi, along with the real Campbell, so there's hope! There's also mention that she's still working for the government in MGS2, so...

On a side note, I just got MGS3 Subsistence today, the only thing is I'm useless on it. I just can't seem to spot the guards very well, and they then see me. Any tips? I'm playing it on a pretty small TV screen, but when I went downstairs to use a bigger TV and my brothers' slimline ps2, I moved it slightly and it turned itself off while in the middle of stuff. Should I just tranquilise everyone I see?
 
Sam-2k said:
On a side note, I just got MGS3 Subsistence today, the only thing is I'm useless on it. I just can't seem to spot the guards very well, and they then see me. Any tips? I'm playing it on a pretty small TV screen, but when I went downstairs to use a bigger TV and my brothers' slimline ps2, I moved it slightly and it turned itself off while in the middle of stuff. Should I just tranquilise everyone I see?
Click to expand...

Well personally that's how I got through most of the game, tranqings guards when I didn't want to risk getting caught while sneaking. It's up to you though, for a while I executed the guards but I realized it was foolish and stopped doing that later on. Part of the beauty of the game was deciding how you want to play it, there's no defined or 'right' way, just get from point A to B with whatever means that suits you best.
 
Heh I got Subsistence yesterday too, good game, though I need to buy a new PSTwo so I can play it online ;)
 
I'm getting into the swing of it more now. Para-medic and Snake convos are far far better than Rose and Raiden convos.
 
Sam-2k said:
They're bringing back Meryl and Naomi, along with the real Campbell, so there's hope! There's also mention that she's still working for the government in MGS2, so...

On a side note, I just got MGS3 Subsistence today, the only thing is I'm useless on it. I just can't seem to spot the guards very well, and they then see me. Any tips? I'm playing it on a pretty small TV screen, but when I went downstairs to use a bigger TV and my brothers' slimline ps2, I moved it slightly and it turned itself off while in the middle of stuff. Should I just tranquilise everyone I see?
Click to expand...
That's why I didn't like MGS3 much. I was waiting for good opportunities to choke people, but got half-way through without even doing it once. When you walk up behind them, they can actually hear you this time, meaning you have to use the sneak walk which is about as useless as the one in Thief 3, since it's so slow. There's no reason not to just tranquilise them all the way through.
 
StardogChampion said:
That's why I didn't like MGS3 much. I was waiting for good opportunities to choke people, but got half-way through without even doing it once. When you walk up behind them, they can actually hear you this time, meaning you have to use the sneak walk which is about as useless as the one in Thief 3, since it's so slow. There's no reason not to just tranquilise them all the way through.
Click to expand...

You have to be good at it, there's nothing like running up and grabbing em, then pulling them behind a tree right before the other guards turn around. I mean, you can just tranq everyone ... but that's not the best way to play. The first time through I wasn't good at it either so I wound up killing/tranquing most of the guards, but the more you play it the better you get. It's one of the few games that are better on repeated playthroughs because you can do it right.


My biggest complaint about MGS3 gameplay is the indoors sections. Without the radar, they're ridiculously hard to sneak around in. I mean, I can do the outside areas pretty good now, but I'm still rubbish at the indoor areas.
 
At least indoor areas weren't just rehashes of each other. That I was glad of.
 
I found the indoor areas to be the easiest, you just have to be tactical about it and remember all the guards routes, then it's a bloody piece of cake.:)
 
The hardest part so far for me has been fighting The End, I just gave up and waited for his stamina to go down, and when stopped I got him running around so chased him with the thermal goggles on and tranqed him. Have to say I'm loving the shotgun for fights right now.

Just beaten The Fury now.
 
Sam-2k said:
I'm getting into the swing of it more now. Para-medic and Snake convos are far far better than Rose and Raiden convos.
Click to expand...

Nah, I thought her "HAVE YOU SEEN..." got really irking towards the end, but I guess it still beats Rose and Raiden by a mile. The one about James Bond before the fight with The Pain is absouletly hysterical though.
 
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