My First "Astral Projection" Expirience

[CrazyHarij]

Okay, mocking maybe was the wrong word.. But the attitude some people have against him isn't really the ideal one. If you're doubting him and this thing, try to keep it at an intelligent state and don't analyze every single word he's saying, remember that you won't convince him it's not real and he will probably not convince you that it is real, especially not with the current attitude you have.

Anyhow, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Mine is that I'm not entirely sure about this thing, but the stuff that happens when you do the early steps while lying down happen so fast to me, I just have to do the relaxment stage about a minute or so and then some vibration and the feeling of flying around in the sofa or falling with it in endless space happens almost instantly.. The heart pounding is sort of annoying, it seems like you get the impression that it's pounding alot faster than it really is..

I don't seem to hear anything weird or any imagery, except that sounds and such do louden up and the "blackness" when I'm closing my eyes is changing and transforming alot, turning blue and stuff. I don't really know in what way the imagery appears, do they appear in your mind or do you see them with your closed eyes, how is it like?

 

[Apos]

But the attitude some people have against him isn't really the ideal one.

Ideal for what, exactly? Remember, you can alwyas have a private conversation with him if you want.

especially not with the current attitude you have.

See, this I find a little disturbing: so the truth of something depends not on any evidence or logic, but rather on your attitude? This just seems like an invitation to self-sealing logic. i.e. in order to believe that it's true, step one is to believe that it's true... in which case you already believe, and have completely and convieniently bypassed the step where you might be able to confirm its truth or falsity.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

let's face it, apos is right. even devilphish has conceeded that he can offer nothing in the way of proof to us that his experiences are more than hallucinations/dreams/whatever. that's essentially all that apos is saying.

 

[Apos]

let's face it, apos is right. even devilphish has conceeded that he can offer nothing in the way of proof to us that his experiences are more than hallucinations/dreams/whatever.

Well, that's not quite the case. If he could do the numbers thing, or see the past or distant solar systems, that would be proof: indeed, it would be absolutely incredible proof of at least something in the way of a paranormal power going on. So this isn't just a "nobody can prove anything to anyone" situation (in fact, that seems to be an excuse for beating a hasty retreat in the face of delicate questions rather than a reality of discussions like these, where we most certainly can discuss logic, weigh evidence, consider its context, etc.)

The problem is: it would be so amazing that it would be front page news kind of stuff. NASA could use his talents to great effect as could virtually any other area of human study. So why hasn't he demonstrated it to anyone who could report on it, especially if his aim is to spread the word about how anyone can learn to do this sort of thing?

 

[CrazyHarij]

Yeah, I guess he's right, I didn't really think before I wrote before . I'm usually extremely sceptical when it's stuff like this and right now I'm very confused to this since I've gotten to take a tiny bite of the cake, and yeah, there's no way anyone can prove whether it's just mind stuff or if there really is such a thing as an astral plane.

Back on questions to Devilphish: I've read that people who "open the 3rd eye" tend to see spirits and ghosts and general stuff, and if there really are ghosts, spirits watchamacallit, I'm not really keen on seeing them swimming around everywhere.
(one step closer to ****ing insanity by the way)

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Well, that's not quite the case. If he could do the numbers thing, or see the past or distant solar systems, that would be proof: indeed, it would be absolutely incredible proof of at least something in the way of a paranormal power going on. So this isn't just a "nobody can prove anything to anyone" situation (in fact, that seems to be an excuse for beating a hasty retreat in the face of delicate questions rather than a reality of discussions like these, where we most certainly can discuss logic, weigh evidence, consider its context, etc.)

unfortunately it actually is the case. while devilphish is claiming that he can do certain things which you believe to be testable, they are not. there will always be an inconsistency between his paranormal experience and your reality anyway, and he can always fall back on that fact. i'm speaking practically more than absolutely, b/c i don't really believe that our experiences represent 'objective reality' fully anyway. statistically, if it was possible for a true skeptic to be convinced of the paranormal, it probably would have happened by now. devilphish has already given himself outs for most test you can think of, as i see it. but feel free to try to corner him. how exactly do you think you can test him anyway?

 

[Sprafa]

So, what's the topic for the debate (so I can join in late) ?

 

[CrazyHarij]

So, what's the topic for the debate (so I can join in late) ?

TEH ASTRALLL PROJECT0RZZZ!

To keep things simple it's said to be something you do to leave your physical body and fly around in your "soul" or something like that.. One guy is very experienced on it, Devilphish, and some people are questioning if it's real or not, etc..

 

[Apos]

unfortunately it actually is the case. while devilphish is claiming that he can do certain things which you believe to be testable, they are not.

Of course they are. The ability to correctly relate random numbers written on a page in another room is easily testable. So is the idea that he can travel to see past events or distant events: all we have to do is see is his account matches up with what we can directly confirm via other means.

Not only would all that be testable, if true, it would be one of the most incredible developments in human history.

It's true no one can confirm the things he sees. But insofar as he claims that what he sees matches up to reality, it's of course easy to test these claims.

statistically, if it was possible for a true skeptic to be convinced of the paranormal, it probably would have happened by now.

I don't understand this sentance. What does "statistically" mean here?

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Of course they are.

as i said, i was speaking more practically than objectively. though, once you have some results (that both parties agree upon) of tests you've conducted with him, i'll stand corrected.

I don't understand this sentance. What does "statistically" mean here?

i mean to say that skeptics like james randi and michael shermer have thrown down the proverbial guantlet already. had there been much paranormal activity that were infact provebale in the natural world, i think it's likely that it would have been done by now. it seems as that if the stakes were so great (greatest event in human history etc.), they wouldn't remain in the dark corners of sci-fi 'zines and chat rooms for this long. that said, i admit i have no objective basis for my assumptions of "liklihood" here.

 

[Apos]

had there been much paranormal activity that were infact provebale in the natural world

Realistically, if it weren't provable in the natural world, then it wouldn't have much effect on the natural world and wouldn't really be of much consequence anyway.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Realistically, if it weren't provable in the natural world, then it wouldn't have much effect on the natural world and wouldn't really be of much consequence anyway.

of course. i'll wait along with other skeptics, but i'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[Devilphish]

Ok, one last post for me to cover things up to this point. It is clear it will just go on and on. This is why I never get into metaphysical discussions on a public, off-topic forum. After a while all you end up doing is trying to defend yourself against people who want proof, and if you can't give it your a fraud or hallucinating. I came to this thing from the get go saying I cannot offer proof to anyone. At this point in time proof isn't possible. All a person can do is validate it for themselves through experiencing it. When you have the experience there are ways to validate to yourself that it is not all in your mind. I thought it was in your mind too when I first started out. You just have to have the experiences. If you really want to know the truth, I don't see why it is so hard to just try. You are willing to sit in this thread and argue your points which in the end don't validate your stance or invalidate mine. Why not just plop yourself down on your bed for that amount of time for a month or two and see what happens instead. It's easy to judge an experience you have never had and no nothing about. It's easy to write it off. It's lazy, too. Try actually doing it first.

To Apos

I wrote out a huge reply but then I realized I wasn't saying anything I havn't said before. The bottom line is this:

I know you don't believe me. You don't have to. I don't expect you to or care if you do. I didn't come here to prove anything because I have no proof for you. If you want to know the truth, you have the option of trying it and seeing what it's all about. You will never know until you do. It's up to you.

About Randi: The things I have heard about his test may not be true. Randi says it's fair, everyone else says it isn't. I don't know. All i know is more capable and smarter people than me have decided it isn't worth it to gamble your reputation on Randi being fair. I agree. There are other, safer ways to make money with this skill.

About me testing: People have undergone tests in the past with amazing results, it didn't end with fome or fortune or an awakening in science. They were forgotten in a week. I want to contribute eventually, but right now I'm focused on my life and school. When I'm better I might do something to get the publics attention. When you see some guy clearing out the FBI's most wanted list and winning 5 lotterys on the same day in different states, that might be me. I might even give a shout out to Apos while on Larry King. Right now I don't have the skill to do either of those things, and I still have a lot to learn.

About the lottery winning lady: She would not want me to give out her private information in public. She does not want it public knowledge who she is and that she can win the lottery at will for reasons that should be obvious. She isn't a lottery player who finally won and attributed it to her skill. She realized one day she might be able to win the lottery with projecting, so she tried and. And she won. Come to whatever conclusiuon you like. Her website is at Astralvoyage.com

My final answer: I'm sorry I can't provide you with the proof you want. I never came to convince anyone because it isn't possible. I only came to help out a couple of guys who were starting out. I gave you the method through which you can validate it yourself. thats the best I can do. It's up to you. Good luck.


To Non-Sequitur[/quote]

But haven't you been to solar systems that haven't even been discovered? Did you just "stumble" upon them by accident?

Flying through space and *stumbling* upon a planet is highly unlikely. As I said I have a technique for finding extra solar planets, but so far I have only been able to get it to work on very large planets, Jupiter size and bigger. I have only gotten it to work on 3 planets smaller than that, and only two Earth size planets.

And how about telling us if there is life in the icy oceans of Europa?

I have been to Europa twice, I have discovered no life there. Even for a moon it is vast, I could have easily missed something. Scouring the ocean bottom for heat vents is very hit and miss. After 3 trys I gave up, but that doesn't mean I didn't miss something. All I can say is I was there twice and found nothing.

Life anywhere else in the universe for that matter?

I have found none, though I'm sure there is life somewhere. 90% of the extra-solar planets I have been to have been gas giants. I have checked out their moons for life and found nothing. The only Earth size planets I have been to have been barren of anything but rock and dirt. I found a type of liquid on one, but I have no way of analyzing it's makeup to know what it is.

Why does NASA even have to bother sending rovers to Mars when you could just explore it for them?

Projecting in no way makes physical exploration obsolete. There are many things a physical machine can do that I can't. I can't retrieve samples for study, I can't analyze things with instrumentation, I can't lift rocks and see whats underneath them, I can't do many things that a machine can. Projecting isn't the answer to space exploration. In the future physical exploration and non-physical exploration should be used in alongside each other. The one doesn't render the other obsolete in any way. There wil lalways be a need for a physical hands on appraoch, and there will always bee places we can't put our physical hands on where non-physical exploration is in order. Do you not think abou tthese questions before you ask them?

Why not just head for a star and then look for the brightest nearby dots?

This doesn't always work. What I do to find extra solar planets is locate a star and travel to it. Then I move a great distance away from it and travel in a circle around it very fast. I look for bright objects which seem to move more in relation to the stars. Because of my being in motion I concluded the planets should appear as moving in relation to the stars and that would make them easier to spot, along with their relative brightness in relation to the surrounding stars. So far this has only worked for very large planets, or earth size planets that are reatively close to the star. If you can think of a better technique I would be more than happy to consider it, since this is something I'm interested in.

Funny how all this works too... you "see" planets. Does your "spirit" or whatever it is have eyes?

Is has nothing to do with eyes. Hour physical body uses the eyes to see, our non-physical consciousness simply precieves. It appears as vision, but 360 degree vision. It's hard to get used to soemtimes, as you can see behind you and above/below you all at once. Likewise, in non-physical form there is no true above or below, there is no true left or right. In the physical we would have to turn ourselves left or right to travel to an object that is in th eopposite direction of our focus. In non-physical form we would simply focus our vision in th eopposite direction and begine to move in that direction. there is no turning involved, because we have no true body to turn. our only precieved body is a replica created by the mind. you can turn it if you want, but it is not necessary in navigating through the surroundings. Likewise, there is no dark you cannot see through, and there is no brightness you cannot look directly into. Non-physical consciousness doesn't rely on photons to see what is there. This is why you can pass through an object and see the texture of the object while you are in it.

Could a blind person do this too?

Yes. A physical impairment on the physical eyes has no effect on your ability to precieve your surroundings when in non-physical form. Physical eyes have nothing to do with non-physical "sight".

How about someone with brain damage?

On this I can only guess as I have not heard of any studies in which this was attempted. I have followed studies in which deaf and blind people were taught to project, but never anyone with brain damage. What exactly do you mean by brain damage anyway? I don't know if such a person can learn to project, it depends on how damaged it is I suppose. if it affects his ability to learn or perform certain feats of concentration/meditation then I don't see how this person could project. However, damage to a physical organ does not effect your non-physical essence in any way what so ever. If you go blind in this life it doesn't mean you can't see in the after life. The physical body is a vehicle made to be used and then tossed aside. It has no lasting effect on your abilities in your true form.

How about apes and other species that are genetically close to us?

In order to consciously project one must be able to perform certain tasks that no animal on this earth that I am aware of can perform. It has nothing to do with genetics. The ability to project isn't written into DNA. I am not aware of any animal possessing the ability to perform the tasks required to project.

At what point in human evolution did this ability become inherent?

I don't know that it had anything to do with evolution. I don't know that mankind evolved at all. You speak to me as if the ability to project means I am all knowing. I have no idea if evolutiuon is true, if it is I have no idea if mankind is a part of it. If we are and we did evolve, I have no idea at which point in time in our evolution we were able to project. I can only assume it was at the time we gained the ability to perform the required tasks.

Why are you asking these things anyway? I know it isn't out of genuine curiosity, and you sound as if you think they somehow discredit me. They aren't difficult to answer.

 

[Devilphish]

I just want to have a normal real life like everyone else without having to check if I'm in my astral or real body everytime like that Robert Peterson guy seemed to have..

LOL. That guy was having a hard time coming to grips with what was happening. It doesn't get in the way of your life at all. After you get into it might will be a few times when you wake up in the morning and start go go about your routine only to realize it is what they call a "false awakening" and your physical body is still in bed. This is more amusing than anoyying. Projecting hasn't gotten in the way of my life at all, it has enriched it. When I am in certain parts of the Astral I get the occasional spirit or entity that comes along and attempts to make contact with me, I usually ignore them and go about whatever I was doing. I'm not interested in that. Projecting doesn't mean you have to lead a strange or abnormal life. I consider my physical life rather ordinary infact.

I've also read a interesting book by a woman who joined a satanic cult thing and later became christian, and all the experiences she had.. Stuff like eating hearts, sacrificing people, summoning demons, etc etc.. In the book she told about a special occassion when she was new there when she went with some of the cult with astral bodies to "do bad stuff" to a christian family, but when they came to the house they saw it being guarded by a shitload of angels, sort of.

Astral rpojection is more common within occult and satanic groups than it is with Christians. This is simply because spiritual practices have become very taboo in mainstream Christian culture, where in the occult any and all spiritual practices are embraced.Most projectors aren't christian or a part of any occult movement, they are just people have have stumbled upon projection either through spontaneoous projections, lucid dreaming, NDEs, or just by chance in a book or something.

When you AP, do you see the world as in a dream, dreams are very unclear (even lucid) and often you just remember each dream like a number of images, or do you see it as clear as when you're in your real physical body and physical eyes?

It isn't like a dream at all. Most people believe they precieve the world more clearly than they do in waking life. During the first couple of episodes vision may be distorted. This is due to lack of experience precieving the world outside of the body. After you spend a few minutes out and getting used to this new state of being you see more clearly and gain more control over movement. Some people have more problems learning to move than they do seeing clearly. Everything works itself out with practice.

Do you see the world the same way you'd see it if you could fly through walls, or do you see it in another colorscheme, blue or something?

You see everything as it is. Your vision isn't impaired in any way.

One thing I've been wondering too is how you move in your astral body, can you move short distances by "swimming" or do you just think of a place and you move there instantly? (This is sort of interesting because in almost all christian theories of Heaven you can move somewhere by just thinking of the place)

You move by willing yourself to move. In the physical you don't tell your legs to move in turn, you just will yourself to move and your brain handels the rest. It is the same in the Astral only your brain and legs aren't there. When you want to move in a direction, you begin to move. When you want to stop, you stop. Some people have trouble with things like flying, and they feel they have to literally flap their arms to fly. this is just a matter of them not having gained control of their navigational capabilities. I used to do the running and flapping my arms thing to take off. Now I just do it superman style, just go. Again, everything works itself out through practice.

Again, instant travel to anywhere by simply willing it is possible, but at a higher level. This skill takes alot of time to master.

Do you see this cord connected to your body, do you "feel" a connection to your body all the time so you can go back to it whenever you want?

I personally don't see a cord. Many don't. there is always a connection wether you see a cord or not. Getting back to the body is a simple matter. You are always aware of your physical body in the back of your mind. All you have to do is focus on it and do something with it, like wiggle your tow, and you instantly come back.Thats the technique I use anyway. Usually just focusing on your body is enough. Ofcourse of you are in stress or very scared the experience will end right away.

I know it's probably extremely hard, but it'd help me alot if you could describe your process when you astral project, everything from the relaxed state to when you go back to your body and "wake up" ?

I used to use Bruce's relaxation technique with the invisible hands and what not. By now it's enough that I lay still for a while and consciously try to calm my body. Breath steadily, focus on your breath and nothing esle. It usually takes me 20 minutes until my body is relaxed enough that I can begin entering trance.

To enter trance your mind must be clear of "surface thought", or in other words the random bullshit your mind is usually occupied with. This is a skill that is sometimes difficult to master. Start by concentrating on only one thing, like your breath, and anything else that pops up just let it go by and then get back to your breath or whatever you are concentrating on. It can be a mental image or anything. Some people use a mantra. Don't repeat it outloud, just in your head. It's important not to ever move your body. if you move your body you will have to start again. infact, try to not even be aware of your body. I cannot stress the importance of relaxation and a clear mind enough. It is the biggest obstical because many news think they are relaxed but they aren't, or think their mind is clear but it isn't. When your mind is clear you wil lknow it. it will be a profound silence that will shock you at first. When my body is relaxed and my mind is somewhat clear, I start a trance inducing technique. Anything that gives you the sensation of falling will do. Going down and elevator real fast, driving down a hill. Whatever you can do to create the falling sensation. Just imagine the scenario and repeat it over and over, while al lthe while making sure your focus is in your mind and not on your body. When your body is totally numb and you are not aware it is even there, you are in trance. Forthe love of God don't get scared and reach out to your body at this point! If you become aware of your body you must start over. It usually takes me about 10 minutes to induce a trance after I am relaxed.

After you reach trance start your exit technique. Rope is fine, but try other too. there are so many you never know which one will work for you. All techniques try to bring your focus out of your physical body. Right now your focus should be wholly in your mind, so now you want your focus to move upward. I use rope. After a while the usual exit sensations come and go, such as sounds and racing heart. When the vibrations come I can usually just will myself out. Keep pulling on the rope and you will get out.

For me the whole process, from the time I lay on the bed to the time vibrations come, usually take 40 to 50 minutes. Sometimes much quicker, sometimes i'm out of luck and don't get out. But usually about 40-50 minutes.

Also, is there any AP forum you could link me to, so I could do more reading on it?

Astralsociety.org is a good one. So is astralpulse.com

Take everything with a huge grain of salt. When on the Astral everyone has their own experiences and they are very subjective. Test everything for yourself and don't take anyones word for it.

I'm having alot of thoughts right now, I want to explore it more but at the same time I'm scared to death by it, it seems like everyone else is it too.. But really, how do people get past that fear just like that?

Read, learn about it, and decide if it's for you. only you can make the decision. The only way you will get past your fear is by confronting it. Once you do you will be empowered. It's like that huge, steep slide at the waterpark that you think for sure if you go on it you will be blown right off and fall to your death. The 100 footer that is almost straight down for 90% of it. And you stand their at the top scared to death for a few seconds, then finally take the plunge. Then once your at the bottom you realize it is no big deal and you are no longer afraid, and it's actually fun. And you run to the top to do it again. you have to face your fear to get over it.

From what you say you seem to be very prone to projection the way vibrations start so soon. Many people have to really fight with it for weeks or months before they can get vibrations. You could be projecting in no time, you don't realize how lucky you are. Good luck with it. You can PM me any time if you need help with something.



I most likely won't post in this thread again as it seems it is entered a kind of debate that is destined to go nowhere. If you have questions PM me. Later.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

see? i told you Apos

 

[Lil' Timmy]

Spud: sorry if your request about lucid dreaming has already been answered, but check out lucidity.com if you haven't yet. i've been trying to have lucid dreams for quite some time now (on and off) and i've had 1 good one, and several mediocre ones (limited lucidity).

 

[Apos]

I came to this thing from the get go saying I cannot offer proof to anyone. At this point in time proof isn't possible.

But that's flatly untrue if what you said before is the case: that you can read numbers from another room with 95% accuracy, see past events, or see faraway planets.

When you have the experience there are ways to validate to yourself that it is not all in your mind.

Epistemologically, this isn't so. While we can never validate your end of things (that you actually saw the things you saw) if you can truly validate them on the other end by reference to confirmatory findings like the numbers written on the paper, then anyone else should be able to do so as well: ask you what the numbers were before you see them, and then checking.

I thought it was in your mind too when I first started out. You just have to have the experiences. If you really want to know the truth, I don't see why it is so hard to just try. You are willing to sit in this thread and argue your points which in the end don't validate your stance or invalidate mine.

This is what I'm wary of. As soon as questions become specific, out comes the "all debate is pointless, never gets us anywhere" and "nothing can be proven" stuff. Which usually, as in this case, directly contradicts the fact that you were making claims before about things that can be proven, quite easily. And is, flatly, wrong. In almost any other discipline of human knowledge there is plenty to discuss, and critical discussion is probably the most effective tool for knowledge in all of human civilization.

About Randi: The things I have heard about his test may not be true. Randi says it's fair, everyone else says it isn't. I don't know. All i know is more capable and smarter people than me have decided it isn't worth it to gamble your reputation on Randi being fair. I agree. There are other, safer ways to make money with this skill.

I'd like to know who these smart and capable people are. I've read quite a lot on this subject, and from what I can tell, a lot of the people who say these things are clearly out and out frauds who don't want their schemes exposed, or people that were sadly fooling themselves. Not everyone conclusively is, but even you should admit that there are a lot of snake-oil sellers in the human race and people with mistaken ideas: it's part of human nature. So I'd like to know who you are taking to be an authority on this.

About me testing: People have undergone tests in the past with amazing results, it didn't end with fome or fortune or an awakening in science.

Well, there have been a lot of failures, and a lot of frauds, and a lot of misunderstandings that I know of. I've read a lot of the stories posted on sites that claim to describe successful tests, but then if you do research into them, you find that the laudatory description was highly incomplete, to say the least. So again, I'd like to see some documentation on this. And don't just go "oh, nothing matters, no one can prove it." If people really can do what you say, it'd be easy to prove, and there should be extensive documentation available.

People have undergone tests in the past with amazing results, it didn't end with fome or fortune or an awakening in science. They were forgotten in a week.

I would guess that this is because those tests didn't turn out quite the way they were supposed to, or were discredited. Otherwise, they would have been huge news. If people really have the claimed powers, it should be simple to demonstrate their abilities to the satisfaction of everyone. People in neuroscience science would be dying to do tests to make their careers on this phenomenon. And yet I haven't seen a single shred of credible research on the matter. So what you say just doesn't ring true, either about the media, academic research, etc.

Right now I don't have the skill to do either of those things, and I still have a lot to learn.

Nonsense: 95% rate at predicting five random numbers is an INCREDIBLE hit rate. It alone would radically alter scientific perceptions of the world and the human mind. It would have incredibly useful applications for all sorts of different fields of knowledge and research that could help real people.

About the lottery winning lady: She would not want me to give out her private information in public.

If she won the lottery, then her name and the info I asked for is already public record. That doesn't make much sense.

She does not want it public knowledge who she is and that she can win the lottery at will for reasons that should be obvious.

Why? It isn't against the rules. And she doesn't seem to have much problem claiming that she won it via astral projection on her site.

She isn't a lottery player who finally won and attributed it to her skill. She realized one day she might be able to win the lottery with projecting, so she tried and. And she won. Come to whatever conclusiuon you like.

Before you were telling me that it took three attempts: now you make it seem like she just up and did it once, winning straight away. I think you missed the point of what I said anyway: you can't tell that something is chance just by a single example. You can only tell by examining the PETWHAC (a statistical tool used to consider how likely it is for someone to have an event that they would think an uncanny coincidence), which means the pre-win states of all the people playing the lotto.

Her website is at Astralvoyage.com

The only reference I can find about winning the lottery is that she won the daily lottery, though I didn't read all the articles. Which daily lottery has 6 million jackpots? How often do people win a daily lottery?

My final answer: I'm sorry I can't provide you with the proof you want. I never came to convince anyone because it isn't possible.

As I pointed out, it would be very possible, if not very easy, to convince me if you could simply do what you say you can do under controlled conditions. You could provide proof pretty easily, and you would have every reason to want to do so.

 

[Apos]

see? i told you Apos

Well, you told me insofar as: oftentimes as soon as people inquire for specific evidence that would confirm or deny what they are saying, or someone makes some too good skeptical points, suddenly that's the end of the discussion. Mention Randi, and people go all red in the face and call him all sorts of names and say his award is fake, but they won't say specifically what about it or the process is fake.

But you didn't tell me so in that it doesn't HAVE to be this way. People who've discovered important new theories and insights are usually eager to discuss and defend them critically. They don't declare that all discussion is pointless, and you must believe or not believe and that's that. People who declare such things are worth being wary of, because the way we learn things is not just by experience, but also by critical examination of the reasoning that tries to describe or draw conclusions from those experiences.

 

[RogueShadow]

Projection? Hmm.. I'm much more interested in Lucid dreams, lately I haven't been remembering any of my dreams for more than a few minutes. And I can achieve sensations of motion purely by thinking about it, if that's anything? heh. Haven't done that in a while. Like riding a rollercoaster.

 

[Stigmata]

@ DevilPhish:

I'm going to try to project myself tonight when I go to bed. This is going to be my first time. Besides clearing my mind of random thoughts, "ignoring" my body, and thinking of falling, is there anything else I can do to help?

And if it's any use to you, I've experienced random vibrating, heart-racing and falling feelings before, usually while reading a book or trying to get to sleep. Would any of that mean that I've been unknowingly close to projecting before?

 

[Apos]

I'm much more interested in Lucid dreams, lately I haven't been remembering any of my dreams for more than a few minutes. And I can achieve sensations of motion purely by thinking about it, if that's anything?

I usually helps to visualize yourself dreaming or doing a specific thing throughout the day before you go to sleep. The common example is flying: write a big F on the palm of your hand and periodically look at it during the day and say to yourself "I'm going to fly tonight." If you make a strong enough imprint, this conviction should come up in your dream (sometimes even with the F on your hand in the dream to remind you that you intend to fly) and you should, as planned, fly. It's a good way to start, and it's worked for me. Lucid dreaming of course happens fairly often just before you are about to wake up, but in most cases you wake up too fast to really appreciate it.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

I usually helps to visualize yourself dreaming or doing a specific thing..

another common technique is to train yourself to look for certain things that can tip you off that you are dreaming. such as turning on and off light switches, or consistently checking the time on a digital clock while you are awake. the hardest part of this is remembering to do it while awake though.. you have to train yourself to do it so that you repeat this action in your dreams. for most people, reading characters or digital clocks/controling light levels is very difficult in dreams. i once tried to read a digital clock in a dream and it was all messed up (it's hard to describe), this was a tip-off to my consciousness (yes, you are conscious while dreaming) that i was infact dreaming and not awake. also, mirrors often don't behave as they do while you are waking.

a related technique to what apos mentioned is to try to program yourself to dream about a very specific thing that does not exist in reality. an example i've heard before is a purple rabbit :imu:. if you ever see this thig, then you are probably not awake (or hopefully that's what your mind will think).

 

[RogueShadow]

Hehe, back in my nintendo days I used to have dreams about the midgets in Kung Fu. I could just about make myself have the dream again. I had some great dreams when Ronin Warriors was on USA saturday mornings. I know in the past I used to have recurring dreams, well mostly recurring places. It was all very good.

 

[Apos]

It is usually easier to get yourself to dream things you've dreamed before, especially if you think about them a lot while awake, than it is to dream new stuff deliberately.

 

[CrazyHarij]

@ DevilPhish:

I'm going to try to project myself tonight when I go to bed. This is going to be my first time. Besides clearing my mind of random thoughts, "ignoring" my body, and thinking of falling, is there anything else I can do to help?

And if it's any use to you, I've experienced random vibrating, heart-racing and falling feelings before, usually while reading a book or trying to get to sleep. Would any of that mean that I've been unknowingly close to projecting before?

You astral project when you sleep, according to some people.. You act like a drunk in that realm then, and people don't bother doing anything with you.. I don't know about "negative entities", they might do something in nightmares or something, I'm not sure..

Guess fear is the thing you're going to have to deal with now. Lots of it..
Also, the question whether bad spirits, negative entities and other evildoers exist or not are going to bother you. But get past the fear of the first stages first, the stuff that happens to you when you start the process like REM while you're awake and stuff like that, I've gotten past them rather quickly though.. I'm not going to AP during nights since I get pretty freaked out easily and there's a risk for falling asleep.

Some weird people think the negative entities are there to stop us from discovering that world.. seems sort of f**ked up to me.

Also, if you haven't heard about it yet, if you do manage to AP or something and see any "negative entity", people say the more grotesque they look the weaker they actually are.

There is also theories of a personal guide in the realm, that follows you and could become a friend of some sort.. Devilphish says he's seen his..

Just remember that the "negative entities" can't do any single kind of harm.. not mentally or physically. They're just there to freak you out, think of them as little goblins that change their appearances to more frightening stuff to scare people..

I'm not really sure whether I should try more or not, but there is alot of people saying BS stuff, take everything you read with a grain of salt and you don't have to become a newager with crystals and drawing circles or do strange kung fu poses and say latin words to suceed.