New Interview on GamesRadar

You know what? As long as it works as advertised in the final version I'll be happy.
 
Originally posted by hawk724
i did not know it was a pre-recorded thing sorry. But like i said before it does not mean they wouldn't script the ai for demonsration porposes.

]Though i have to admit it would have been alot more impressive if they let the AI do two or 3 completely different things.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! But they didn't did they? They didn't even show us the AI at work, they just showed us an illusion... even though the AI was supposedly working way before E3 even came along... Valve hasn't really said anything solid about this temporary scripting... why do they seem to have something to hide about the AI?
 
Originally posted by Direwolf
You know what? As long as it works as advertised in the final version I'll be happy.
Click to expand...

true that. :afro:

edited
 
I can't believe you all take the word of some wanker that the stolen dev build is really the latest and greatest valve had.

And then you have the nerve to say "this game doesn't look finished". Of course it's not you morons, it's a dev build. It's NOT the latest.
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
EXACTLY! But they didn't did they? They didn't even show us the AI at work, they just showed us an illusion... even though the AI was supposedly working way before E3 even came along... Valve hasn't really said anything solid about this temporary scripting... why do they seem to have something to hide about the AI?
Click to expand...

maybe they felt the AI wasn't completely ready when E3 came around....

i don't know what to tell you man.
 
Originally posted by Ahnteis
I can't believe you all take the word of some wanker that the stolen dev build is really the latest and greatest valve had.

And then you have the nerve to say "this game doesn't look finished". Of course it's not you morons, it's a dev build. It's NOT the latest.
Click to expand...

No one said it isn't a development build. Perhaps you should read what has been said before assuming.
 
Originally posted by hawk724
maybe they felt the AI wasn't completely ready when E3 came around....

i don't know what to tell you man.
Click to expand...

I think you have to agree that their motives behind going to trouble of scripting all that stuff when it's just going to get scrapped in the final game are a little questionable... Especially when the AI was said to be working nicely way before E3...

Anyway, I don't really mind if the game is scripted, as long as it plays well. I just don't think Valve should be decieving us. Considering some of you are so loyal... overly loyal.
 
I think any scripting would merely limit the choices that the AI was allowed to take.
 
i beleave theres gonna be scripting to some extent, but not to the MOHAA extent. You can't have a completly non-liniar game, cause then nothing would happen.
 
Originally posted by Brian Damage
I think any scripting would merely limit the choices that the AI was allowed to take.
Click to expand...

Sad to say that's where the UNFINISHED beta comes in. The preliminary version of the map shows all signs of being built especially for the heavily scripted Strider sequence. There is nothing outside the perimeters of the Strider area... This is definitely an early version of the exact same map they used in the E3 video. They would not go to the trouble of making the map this way if the AI was working the way Doug said it was. Doug's comment about the map being finished before they ever put the Strider in confuses matters further... :(
 
Originally posted by hawk724
i beleave theres gonna be scripting to some extent, but not to the MOHAA extent. You can't have a completly non-liniar game, cause then nothing would happen.
Click to expand...

Quite true.

If(Scripting == false) then
{
Story = false;
}
 
Ever think that ol' Doug might be a little confused? I'm not sure he's really up on current events myself. Still not sure why you think that map was designed specifically for the strider, though.

EDIT: Late here.

Non-Sequitur.GoodBye() && Non-Sequitur.GoodNight();
BrianDamage.Suggestion == Wait.For.Game();
 
Originally posted by Brian Damage
Ever think that ol' Doug might be a little confused? I'm not sure he's really up on current events myself. Still not sure why you think that map was designed specifically for the strider, though.
Click to expand...

I know you haven't seen the beta map... It becomes much clearer once you see it and walk around in it.

By the way, I've long since deleted the beta and stayed well away from the source. I have at least some respect for Valve. I didn't want to bore myself with the physics room, which is the only worthwhile thing in the beta. Playing those levels made me want the full version infinitely more.

Ah, and g'night to you.
 
^
|
|
|
Refer to my previous thread.

Explain. I'll read it in the morning.
 
studios go to the trouble to script and setup storyboards and planning for every single shot of a film, then many of those are thrown out in favor of accidental stuff that happened later

E3 stuff was scripted to show what it could do, its easier than hoping the right thing happens all at once and how exactly you want them to happen when your trying to put a video together. It just makes sense. Doesn't mean the AI couldn't do it, use those hint things and I don't see anything in the E3 vids that couldn't be done with AI

The Strider scene, if people read whats been said, its quite clear they put the strider in to see what happens, and found it tried to get past that walkway after shooting it. Of course nothing would happen, it would just have been a brush and not setup to be blown apart, So of course it makes sense to build into the walkway the ability for it to be blown up now, partially incase the strider chooses to attack it. But not totally destroyable to ensure the strider does the cool walking under it bit. The second strider doesn't appear to do anything scripted, maybe the spearing of the guy but even that could have been AI.

And for those who say "the strider doesn't do this or does that or whatever" in the stolen files.. well do you really need to be told yet again about that thing being incomplete and very old and pre E3 and that anything you've seen in it is subject to major change and any information found in it should be considered theory and rumor and nothing more, and its old news now that the strider wasn't even in that particular map in the stolen files until someone found a way to add it after the files were put on the net, so what your seeing is what some kid has done, not what Valve did, so talking of it as if its gospel truth is just dumb

now.. where's my prozac :)
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138

now.. where's my prozac :)
Click to expand...

Man... I've refuted just about everything you said elsewhere in the thread. And never once did I judge the beta as the final product - I judged the word of Doug Lombardi and the E3 videos... the only official things there are for reference.
 
Hmmm ---

The more i read/see/hear about this whole fiasco the more im reaching a certain conclusion.

That result being all we saw at e3 was a technical demo scripted to produce hype about the game, a game that valve itself cant even give a one line official response to when its going to be ready - let alone out.

The hack scenario i find even more disturbing considering the prominance of this title - it really is no wonder that conspiracy theories abound.

Im thinking the game will be canned because it doesnt exist - theres no such thing as bad publicity folks.

I hope im wrong.
 
Wow...

You guys are so quick to jump on non-sequitur when he is CLEARLY making rational and precise points. Lets forget the beta even exists for a moment ok?

Im quite sure that I remember, in the past hearing about them having troubles with the strider going under the bridge. That it would blast away at it...and then not know what to do. Im SURE its in an interview somewheres (maybe the initial gamespot one?). THEREFORE the statement that Doug made...is quite exaggerated. Im positive the entire interview is somewhat 'flakey'...

But...this isnt something to knock doug for either. He is a PR guy. This is his job. Every game company hypes their game...

The main point is...all non-sequitur was saying...is that doug's comments seem a bit overblown. He is right. You guys dont need to argue him to the ground.
 
Oh yay, more conspiracy theories. This is getting old. Thousands of threads about this. Talking about beating a dead horse/strider.
 
Originally posted by theGreenBunny
Oh yay, more conspiracy theories. This is getting old. Thousands of threads about this. Talking about beating a dead horse/strider.
Click to expand...

Valve should really clarify the things they say. This is not good public relations I tell you. In a perfect world we'd have at least a vague idea of what's going on with the game, eradicating the need for a "conspiracy theory"... I wouldn't call this a conspiracy theory anyway, it's a discussion about an error in logic that I couldn't get past. This is a discussion board right?
 
Look, it's very possible that Valve scripted the E3 demo looking at it in hindsight with the knowledge gained from the leaked product. Why would they script it? Cause it looks good, shows off many elements of the game at once, and the bottome line is it is easy to do. It's a promotion, of course it's gonna stretch the truth.

Would you rather wait till the game's complete before Valve makes any claims about it's potential? Hell no, we want to see footage, play demos, and hear information about it right now!

It would probably sound pretty boring and bleak if they were brutally honest with us. Like, 'Yah, we wanted the Stryder to shoot out the bridge, but he just walked around in circles...'
 
Originally posted by iamironsam


It would probably sound pretty boring and bleak if they were brutally honest with us. Like, 'Yah, we wanted the Stryder to shoot out the bridge, but he just walked around in circles...'
Click to expand...

Well perhaps they shouldn't have started hyping the game until those problems were ironed out. The issue here is that Doug said that the AI was working before E3. So why the hell didn't they just wait to show us what is going to happen in the game we'll actually be playing rather than the elaborate mock-up that is the E3 video?
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
Well perhaps they shouldn't have started hyping the game until those problems were ironed out. The issue here is that Doug said that the AI was working before E3. So why the hell didn't they just wait to show us what is going to happen in the game we'll actually be playing rather than the elaborate mock-up that is the E3 video?
Click to expand...

Cause this is what companies do when they've got an unfinished product that they'd like to draw attention to. They discuss their goals, they decide what's feasable and what isn't, and then they promote their final product based on these predictions. It's a very common practice in advertisement, as is delaying the release of product if said company doesn't believe it lives up to their claims.
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Cause this is what companies do when they've got an unfinished product that they'd like to draw attention to. They discuss their goals, they decide what's feasable and what isn't, and then they promote their final product based on these predictions. It's a very common practice in advertisement, as is delaying the release of product if said company doesn't believe it lives up to their claims.
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And you feel that it's right to mislead the fans? Doug didn't make any predictions, he stated those things about the Strider as if they were fact.
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
And you feel that it's right to mislead the fans? Doug didn't make any predictions, he stated those things about the Strider as if they were fact.
Click to expand...

Do I think it's right? Not really. Do I think it's American? Very.

Every company in a free market society makes claims about their final product in the guise of fact. I mean, maybe this the first soon-to-be-released product you've ever followed so passionately, but the truth is, everyone does this. The only difference is most companies don't get their prototypes stollen only to be so heavily scrutinized by every fan on the interent.
 
Erm, in the BETA there are a lot of textures that are outdated, and there are some that are not (in conjuncture with the date of the source). Perhaps the hacker only got a hold of a very pre-mature version of the strider and decided to put it in a map (meaning that Valve actually did not do it). He had to piece all of the textures, maps, characters, etc together to make the BETA "playable," so to speak, it wasn't all put together when he stole it, so I don't think you can draw any kind of conclusion from it.

On the other hand, this is Doug making the statements. Who's to say he was just told by Valve that yeah, this was all AI, when in reality it was scripted and he just didn't know the difference. We really don't know...heh. Guess we have to wait for the game to see....
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Do I think it's right? Not really. Do I think it's American? Very.

Every company in a free market society makes claims about their final product in the guise of fact. I mean, maybe this the first soon-to-be-released product you've ever followed so passionately, but the truth is, everyone does this. The only difference is most companies don't get their prototypes stollen only to be so heavily scrutinized by every fan on the interent.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know this. As George Carlin said, "If honesty were suddenly introduced into American life, the whole system would collapse! No one would know what to do. Honesty would fu*k America up!"
 
Originally posted by BuddMan
He had to piece all of the textures, maps, characters, etc together to make the BETA "playable," so to speak, it wasn't all put together when he stole it, so I don't think you can draw any kind of conclusion from it.

On the other hand, this is Doug making the statements. Who's to say he was just told by Valve that yeah, this was all AI, when in reality it was scripted and he just didn't know the difference. We really don't know...heh. Guess we have to wait for the game to see....
Click to expand...

I don't think the leaker put the Strider into that map. That's not logical.

What a great company Valve must be if they lie to their public relations staff, who then spread misinformation to the media. Fantastic!
 
The strider has no AI in the beta. Anything that you see the strider do in the beta HAS to be scripted, else the strider stands there looking pretty.
 
Originally posted by BlazeKun
The strider has no AI in the beta. Anything that you see the strider do in the beta HAS to be scripted, else the strider stands there looking pretty.
Click to expand...

It's partially scripted, its just not finished as it is from months before E3. It walks out of it's hidey hole on cue (when you walk into the right area), it stands there. It tries to destroy the bridge and fails. When you destroy the bridge, another trigger sends the Strider walking into the wall. It does this everytime.
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
I don't think the leaker put the Strider into that map. That's not logical.

What a great company Valve must be if they lie to their public relations staff, who then spread misinformation to the media. Fantastic!
Click to expand...

How is that lying? If it's in the final game then they didn't lie, did they? And why do they have to explain every little detail to you? You're not even supposed to have the BETA. They DON'T have to explain anything to you. If you don't like it, don't buy the game. It's simple as that.

As far as the leaker putting the Strider into the map, please explain to me how that isn't logical.
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
Yes, I know this. As George Carlin said, "If honesty were suddenly introduced into American life, the whole system would collapse! No one would know what to do. Honesty would fu*k America up!"
Click to expand...

Amen to that. Just cause Valve is really tight with their fans, doesn't mean they're saints. Not to question their intentions or anything, but I'm sure money is probably a close second behind making Game of the Year 2004(?).

I think we should just wait till we have the honest to goodness evidence in hand to start throwing accusations their way (and by that I mean the retail version).
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Amen to that. Just cause Valve is really tight with their fans, doesn't mean they're saints. Not to question their integrity or anything, but I'm sure money is probably a close second behind making Game of the Year 2004(?).

I think we should just wait till we have the honest to goodness evidence in hand to start throwing accusations their way (and by that I mean the retail version).
Click to expand...

Yes, the situation will only be rectified once the full game comes out, or at least if Valve releases some explanations.
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
Yes, the situation will only be rectified once the full game comes out, or Valve releases some explanations. As of now, I've just been discussing the accuracy of the comments made by Mr. Lombardi.
Click to expand...

Ok, but without throw anything from the leak out there, can you honestly find any flaws in Lombardi's statements?
 
Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
It's partially scripted, its just not finished as it is from months before E3. It walks out of it's hidey hole on cue (when you walk into the right area), it stands there. It tries to shoot the bridge and fails. When you destroy the bridge, another trigger sends the Strider walking into the wall. It does this everytime.
Click to expand...

Hence my saying it has NO AI. This was supposed to be partially scripted, but it's not.

Trigger- Strider walk here and shoot bridge.
*strider walks there tries to blow bridge and stands clueless*
*Gordon blows up bridge which has an output to tell the strider to get beyond the bridge*
*strider walks through bridge because he has no AI and is totally unfinished*

The reason for the originally intended scripting is simple, if it used contextual AI it WOULDN'T shoot the bridge every single time. Say you want to show the player something cool. But the strider see's something interesting the way it came. Can you hear valve going "It's not doing the cool stuff, try it again!" for 3 hours trying to get a demo that does what they want? It's not that they used scripting because it wasn't finished. They used scripting because there's no other way to make them do EXACTLY what they want.
 
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