No, the world did not believe Saddam had WMDs

[Glirk Dient]

btw why didnt saddam use his stockpiles of WMD on american troops when the invasion began?

Which sounds better, admit to having WMDs and killing a few american troops with them(we were also prepared, so the deaths would be very few) or hide/sell them and remove all evidence and get the world to hate america.

Sounds a whole lot more efficient to get the world to hate america.

 

[CptStern]

Which sounds better, admit to having WMDs and killing a few american troops with them(we were also prepared, so the deaths would be very few) or hide/sell them and remove all evidence and get the world to hate america.

Sounds a whole lot more efficient to get the world to hate america.

so is that why saddam was hiding in a hole when he could have easily got some payback for the invasion of iraq by triggering one big chemical mushroom cloud?


sounds like you're just picking excuses out of the thin air ...even when the logical scenario is the one that in reality played out: NO WMD

 

[No Limit]

Which sounds better, admit to having WMDs and killing a few american troops with them(we were also prepared, so the deaths would be very few) or hide/sell them and remove all evidence and get the world to hate america.

Sounds a whole lot more efficient to get the world to hate america.

Making things up to justify previous actions seems a lot less efficient than looking at facts. The facts state there were no WMDs, why won't you simply accept that?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I've accepted it Glirk.

 

[seinfeldrules]

no seinfeldrules ...how many times do we have to discuss this stupid point? rememner the "not good enough" memo? how can you still sit there and blindly regurgitate the same ol crap over and over when I've clearly proved that the bush admin pressured the cia to fabricate evidence that saddam was behind 9/11? ...you know it really annoys me that you havent listened to a word anyone has said in the last year or so

Stern if I posted quotations from Billy Boy you wouldnt be able to tell them apart from those of Bush in regard to Iraq. It is shocking the similarity. They both claimed the same thing. Furthermore, just because you and others are to the extreme left doesnt make the mainstream media conservative. Nobody will buy that argument, except you guys fooling yourselves into believing it. After all this time, I still dont think you realize that your opinions will never be accepted as mainstream. You would be someone shunned like Michael Moore.

 

[seinfeldrules]

......

 

[seinfeldrules]

=......

 

[seinfeldrules]

......

 

[Absinthe]

Holy shit. Post orgy.

 

[Tr0n]

Wow...During the two years I've been on this site...I've never seen a quad post that's of the same message. :O

 

[seinfeldrules]

Heh, my internet was glitching.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Heh, my internet was glitching.

seinfeld is so 5 years ago

 

[seinfeldrules]

seinfeld is so 5 years ago

Its probably on more often now than it was 5 years ago.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

Sigh The anti-american crap people spew here is starting to get offensive in nature. The brits the germans the french hell even the russians thought iraq had wmd. Even the IRAQI people thought they had it! The fact remains he is the only leader in the history of the world to use chemical weapons on his OWN people. Not only that but he drained a swamp that fed millions of people in that country for over 2000 years. He turned off the power in the southern and northern sections of the country during the winter in order to stop them from rising against him. Hello, he bribed foreign officials, turn the oil for food voucher system into a dollar exchange market. The fact is he may not have had wmd, but during the invasion he shot missles at kuwait meant to be shot at ships that were beyond the limits iraq was legally allowed to have. but to europeans none of this matters. what matters is as a human being we must all sit by and watch as countries warlords dictators militias and so forth slaughter thousands and thousands of people. We are not ever allwoed to do anything without sitting over tea in our nice cozy living rooms after watching the footy game, and discuss it like civilized human beings. At the end of the tea session we must wait and see what happens first. 200,000 people slaughtered later we have to have another tea and footy session. The united nations has stood by and watched genocide and mass civilian murder for far to long without doing anything. The united nations was created to give a voice to the little man. The problem is it doesnt represent the voice of the little man any longer but the voice of dictators and anti-sematism across the world. Shockingly just like the league of nations did previous to the un existance. The fact that these anti-american eurocentric people could even sit by and watch a footy game and bash america while genocide is being commited and condoned by representatives of their own countries is disgusting. It shows how easily and how far the difference of freedom of press is. Meanwhile you sit here bashing my country and while genocide is being commited under the United nations watch. Why don't you wake up and go out and actually do some good in the world. Or wait I'm guessing your better off where you are in your comfy room with air conditioning bashing america while massive amounts of people are dying, on the scales of what hitler did to the jews. Which I'm sure you don't think was real and was all fabricated by the americans, because after all hitler was a good guy!


disgusting

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

so is that why saddam was hiding in a hole when he could have easily got some payback for the invasion of iraq by triggering one big chemical mushroom cloud?


sounds like you're just picking excuses out of the thin air ...even when the logical scenario is the one that in reality played out: NO WMD

Do you know saddam was not the leader of the baath party correct? You do know he was just a representative of a section of it. The fact is the leadership of the baath is in syria to this day. What would you do if your party was just about to be obliterated in one of its countries? I'm guessing you would use some chemical weapons on the troops right and then risk being nuked or having chemical weapons in kind being used on not only your country but also on syria? Or would you remove those weapons and transport them into say a place like the bakka valley, where noone is ever going to find them?

and i apologise for the double post

 

[Neo_Kuja]

Interesting points, but still, there was no huge mushroom cloud over America or any other country after America invaded Iraq, was there ?

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

nno because the only point in having those weapons is for the destruction of isreal. And if you havent noticed at the current stage the best way to deliver such weaponry is through terrorists which are all currently fighting us in iraq and in afghanistan. Secondly, because it was earkly reported by isreal that their intelligence agencies believe the weaposn were transported to the bakka valley, and everyones security agencies watching the middle eastern countries like hawks. any usages of such weapons against lets say isreal would have enormous effects on syria which is currently already under the eye of the world due to what happend in lebanon. Now it's easy to say well they could send a few groups to implant this stuff in america and so forth. but the logistics for doing this is quite long term. For instance if you do your research on 9/11 you find that the planning stages took many many many years. Now there was a simple reasoning for using planes versus wmd. It was cheaper and easier. I would expect somthing along the lines of a mushroom cloud over new york taking a little longer then a few short eyars to plan and execute. As we would be the logical target due to the fact that out right attacking isreal would recieve a very harsh response from us. And as much as our governments claim that the 'terrorists' want to die for their cause, their leadership does not. thus thats why they havent yet, because their generals don't fight on the battlefields. In reality they are doing things like tricking people into blowing themselves up. at the same time the fact that they are now approving the killing of muslim women and children has to be somewhat detremental to the moderates. As anyone who has paid attention to the global media can tell you that they are killing alot more muslims then we ever had. Thousands upon currently. thus i don't see their recruitment department booming, at the same time if it were then why need to trick people into blowing themselves up.

 

[Absinthe]

Which I'm sure you don't think was real and was all fabricated by the americans, because after all hitler was a good guy!

LOL Godwin's Law.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

godwin's law has nothing to do with it thanks for using it though.

 

[CptStern]

Sigh The anti-american crap people spew here is starting to get offensive in nature. The brits the germans the french hell even the russians thought iraq had wmd. Even the IRAQI people thought they had it!

that's because they all sold wmd to iraq prior to 1991 (in some cases after) ...but (big but) the sanctions ensured that his capability in producing them was next to nil ...or that is, unless someone is lying

The fact remains he is the only leader in the history of the world to use chemical weapons on his OWN people.

which you had a hand in

Not only that but he drained a swamp that fed millions of people in that country for over 2000 years. He turned off the power in the southern and northern sections of the country during the winter in order to stop them from rising against him. Hello, he bribed foreign officials, turn the oil for food voucher system into a dollar exchange market.

no one's disputing he's a monster but you didnt give a shit back then and you dont now




"Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)"

The fact is he may not have had wmd, but during the invasion he shot missles at kuwait meant to be shot at ships that were beyond the limits iraq was legally allowed to have. but to europeans none of this matters. what matters is as a human being we must all sit by and watch as countries warlords dictators militias and so forth slaughter thousands and thousands of people.

dont give me that bullshit, you didnt give a shit when he was slaughtering thousands of people in fact shortly after his rise in power the cia gave him a list over 4000 suspected communists ...guess what saddam did to them

We are not ever allwoed to do anything without sitting over tea in our nice cozy living rooms after watching the footy game, and discuss it like civilized human beings. At the end of the tea session we must wait and see what happens first.

bullshit, you didnt do anything when saddam was at his worst, you engineered the deaths of over half a million children and you have the gall to point an accusatory finger towards everyone else yet ignore your own sins? pathetic

200,000 people slaughtered later we have to have another tea and footy session. The united nations has stood by and watched genocide and mass civilian murder for far to long without doing anything. The united nations was created to give a voice to the little man. The problem is it doesnt represent the voice of the little man any longer but the voice of dictators and anti-sematism across the world.

you're joking right? the UN is powerless without it's member states ...in fact one country above everyone else derailed every single attempt at trying to negotiate a peaceful end to the WMD uissue ...maybe you should have paid attention a little more before going in half-cocked ...unless that was your intention in the first place

Shockingly just like the league of nations did previous to the un existance. The fact that these anti-american eurocentric people could even sit by and watch a footy game and bash america while genocide is being commited and condoned by representatives of their own countries is disgusting.

give me a ****ing break you caused more iraqi deaths than saddam EVER did

It shows how easily and how far the difference of freedom of press is. Meanwhile you sit here bashing my country and while genocide is being commited under the United nations watch.

ok lets just shut the press up entirely ..let's all just pipe in fox"news" 24/7 so that we can all be misinformed arm-chair reactionists to anything deemed "anti-american" regardless if it's based on fact or not

Why don't you wake up and go out and actually do some good in the world. Or wait I'm guessing your better off where you are in your comfy room with air conditioning bashing america while massive amounts of people are dying, on the scales of what hitler did to the jews. Which I'm sure you don't think was real and was all fabricated by the americans, because after all hitler was a good guy!


disgusting

why dont you actually examine the facts before you launch into a baseless diatribe about all the good the US has done for Iraq

 

[Glirk Dient]

WOW Cptstern...you didn't refute a single thing he just said, you just mocked and ignored everything he pointed out. On top of that, how do you know he didn't care about all those Iraqis way before this? You don't.

If you dispute that we aren't helping them then that is pretty ignorant. Honestly, some of us enjoy freedom and are glad to share that with others who are being slaughtered and oppressed and simply can't help themselves. Sometimes people need to step up and do the right thing. I am just glad someone has stepped up to get that dictator out of there. I am sorry if you don't care about others, but some of us don't like it when people are dying by the millions.

 

[Absinthe]

godwin's law has nothing to do with it thanks for using it though.

Godwin's law has everything to do with it.

 

[Absinthe]

If you dispute that we aren't helping them then that is pretty ignorant. Honestly, some of us enjoy freedom and are glad to share that with others who are being slaughtered and oppressed and simply can't help themselves. Sometimes people need to step up and do the right thing. I am just glad someone has stepped up to get that dictator out of there. I am sorry if you don't care about others, but some of us don't like it when people are dying by the millions.

And some of us don't like being lied to when we're sending our own friends and family to die over a lie. What part of that do you not understand?

 

[Solaris]

If you dispute that we aren't helping them then that is pretty ignorant. Honestly, some of us enjoy freedom and are glad to share that with others who are being slaughtered and oppressed and simply can't help themselves. Sometimes people need to step up and do the right thing. I am just glad someone has stepped up to get that dictator out of there. I am sorry if you don't care about others, but some of us don't like it when people are dying by the millions.

Ignorant of what exactly? Not the facts. Id you were helping Iraq why are so many of them opposing you? You have stolen there oil.

The Iraqi people are less free now than they were before.
source

Dying in the millions? Do you mean the millions who died under the sanctions? Or the 22563 who died in the war (civillians btw).
Yes you've really done the right thing.

And godwins law has everything to do with it.

 

[Foxtrot]

And some of us don't like being lied to when we're sending our own friends and family to die over a lie. What part of that do you not understand?

Switzerland is participating in the war? That is news to me, all 20 of them?

 

[Solaris]

Who says he doesnt have American freinds and fammily?

 

[Absinthe]

Who says I'm Swiss?

 

[Solaris]

You do

 

[Absinthe]

Since when?

Last I checked, it says "Location" in the top right corner of my posts. Not "Nationality" or "Place of Origin".

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

Godwin's law has everything to do with it.

Ok so godwins law has everything to do with it you say? so your saying that genocide in rwanda and Congo-Brazzaville as well as the conflicts in the Central African Republic and the ivory coast, are not comparable to the conflicts and genocide done to jews in europe? Thanks for clarifying that.

And captain don't you dare say what i care about. You don't know me.

As for the genius saying iraqi people are less free then they were. Thats absolutely the stuipidest comment i have ever seen. You guys are hilarious, and your source is even more hilarious. Capt i was refering to france and the eurocentrics condoning and allowing the genocide that has went on in their colonies in africa the past two decades. Thats the whole point, you guys are blasting us for helping countries have the freedom of choice, yet your condoning france destroying the lives of thousands upon thousands of people. You claim we are stealing oil from iraq and yet, we havent recieved any freaking money from iraq, weve done nothing but pay billions upon billions. Your so clouded by your hatred that you fail to see that you sound just like the naysayers here in america before we got involved in world war 2. You are the type of person to bring vietnam up in a debate not knowing that we only went to vietnam because of how badly FRANCE screwed that country up over 100 years. We have spent the last 100 years in this country coming to the aid of everyone else, everytime they need it. And the one time we ask for europes help all you can do is mock us and call us war mongers, yet europe has caused more death and estruction on this planet then anyone. There isn't a continent on this planet that has been more imeprialistic and colonialistic in nature then europe. And it continues to this day in africa and yet all you can do is bash my country.

absinthe: Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,844

^ i believe thats what he is refering to lol

It doesn't matter to me where anyone is from. All I am stating is peoples dislike and hatred for the usa has stopepd them from looking at the atrocities still being commited by their governments in their own backyard. You guys have been so busy looking at iraq and america and thinking that we are some evil superpower that you forgot to notice that the un was supporting a fighting force and government that has been tied on numerous occasions to funding rebellions in africa and forces that commited genocide in rwanda. You scream oil and so forth as our motives and want us out of iraq and yet ive heard and seen no posts here begging for france to leave africa for good. It shows that the eu/belgium is doing an excellent job of keeping the worlds eyes on us so you don't possibly look theire way.

"ok lets just shut the press up entirely ..let's all just pipe in fox"news" 24/7 so that we can all be misinformed arm-chair reactionists to anything deemed "anti-american" regardless if it's based on fact or no" <- obviously you have trouble comprehending the fact that i was refering to the fact that government run press isn't free.

the best part of internet debates are guys who link to articles to prove their point. You know the biased articles that anyone can find to prove their side of a debate. You know those type of people don't you capt. The type of reports that state the sanctions killed 1 million babies and so forth, yet leave out the fact that saddam drained the swamps that fed most of them, turned off the power in half the country in the winters, and traded oil for food vouchers for american dollars, so he could buy tv's cars and furnish his palaces and so forth. You know those kind of reports that basically say stuff for a specific purpose. I'm not saying my country hasn't sinned. The biggest mistake we ever made was supporting saddam in the first place. that isn't somthing i can contest. But that doesn't mean we don't have a responsibility to clean up our mess. It wasn't just us that supported him either germany france and china all funded his bloody rule. The difference is germany would rather have left him there. France under its current leadership most definatly would leave him there. We had to fight with a bunch of european countries to get them to forgive iraq's debt.

 

[Solaris]

As for the genius saying iraqi people are less free then they were. Thats absolutely the stuipidest comment i have ever seen.

Why did you read it? Iraqi women now must be escorted when they go out. And They are now scared not to wear a full body dress. The author says how she used to wear jeans under sadam, but now women are scared too, and are attacked for doing so.

You are the type of person to bring vietnam up in a debate not knowing that we only went to vietnam because of how badly FRANCE screwed that country up over 100 years. We have spent the last 100 years in this country coming to the aid of everyone else, everytime they need it

Oh yes, you helped them

You guys have been so busy looking at iraq and america and thinking that we are some evil superpower that you forgot to notice that the un was supporting a fighting force and government that has been tied on numerous occasions to funding rebellions in africa and forces that commited genocide in rwanda

The UN who said we support them. The UN is just Americas puppet.

 

[Mith']

You went to war in Vietnam because of Japan...

 

[No Limit]

WOW Cptstern...you didn't refute a single thing he just said, you just mocked and ignored everything he pointed out. On top of that, how do you know he didn't care about all those Iraqis way before this? You don't.

He refuted every single point he made. I get what your problem is, you simply don't know what refute means.

 

[Absinthe]

Ok so godwins law has everything to do with it you say? so your saying that genocide in rwanda and Congo-Brazzaville as well as the conflicts in the Central African Republic and the ivory coast, are not comparable to the conflicts and genocide done to jews in europe? Thanks for clarifying that.

You usage of a Nazi comparison is ridiculous.

You argue that because Stern has displayed more focus on American foreign policy than other issues in the world (surprise surprise, American foreign policy takes the bulk of discussion around here), he therefore doesn't care about other atrocities. Thus far, I've seen nothing to support such a claim. But no, then you go the extra mile to say that because he seemingly doesn't care about those things, he also somehow thought Hitler was a good guy. Erm, what?

Actually, I can't even properly analyze your post since it's so stupid. Just take a long hard look at this quote.

"Or wait I'm guessing your better off where you are in your comfy room with air conditioning bashing america while massive amounts of people are dying, on the scales of what hitler did to the jews. Which I'm sure you don't think was real and was all fabricated by the americans, because after all hitler was a good guy!"

Then hopefully you'll realize how ridiculous you are.

And ANYBODY who thinks we entered Vietnam out of the benevolence of our hearts is lying to themselves.

 

[CptStern]

the best part of internet debates are guys who link to articles to prove their point. You know the biased articles that anyone can find to prove their side of a debate.

well at least you could have done me the service of actually reading the links I posted ...some of them are de-classified US government documents ...so I cant see how you can possibly claim "bias"

You know those type of people don't you capt. The type of reports that state the sanctions killed 1 million babies and so forth, yet leave out the fact that saddam drained the swamps that fed most of them,

had you read the actual reports you'd see that the water treatment assessments were made BEFORE the war ...in other worlds they knew full well children would be the highest amongst the casualties ..once again I remind you these are GOVERNMENT documents ...NOT someone's opinion

turned off the power in half the country in the winters,

hmmmm could it be that less than half of the power plants were running at less than hal;f capacity due to being in disrepair because of coalition bombing

and traded oil for food vouchers for american dollars, so he could buy tv's cars and furnish his palaces and so forth.

ya well those 500,000 children died BEFORE the oil-for food program ...saddam is a monster ...what's your excuse?

You know those kind of reports that basically say stuff for a specific purpose.

yup I'm very familiar with that concept:

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

George Bush February 8, 2003


"We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad."

Donald Rumsfeld March 30, 2003


"Saddam's removal is necessary to eradicate the threat from his weapons of mass destruction"

Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary 2 April, 2003



"We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so."

George Bush May 3, 2003



etc

I'm not saying my country hasn't sinned. The biggest mistake we ever made was supporting saddam in the first place.

why now? why when Iran tried to bring saddam to justice for using wmd ..why did you veto the UN resolution? why did your allies do the same? When saddam was at his worst you did nothing ..you never had any legal basis for entering into iraq ...9/11 gave if not a legal reason a emotional one:

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States.

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-CT, September 4, 2002"

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

solaris have you read how life was for germans during our 10 year occupation? Or perhaps how it was for them during their even longer occupation by russia? Look, you guys swear we are sinister, yet germany is clearly a free country japan is clearly a free country. But now because the country has oil all the sudden our motives are nocturnal. Now we don't actually want them to be free. We just wat their oil. Yeah I think it's time for you guys to wake up i'm sorry. as for how united states declassified documents could be considered biased is somthing i'm sure you don't seem to comprehend. Everything about the united states goverment is based on partisan politics. Every word said, every report put out. Is all about furthing the career of the individual or party, that is how washington runs, its called leverage. You could link documents from a senator who claims were worse then hitler and has his facts to support him. But those are his facts he's leveraged for political gain.

Let me give you an idea here, freedom isn't free. It takes work and costs alot of lives. And guess what, the iraqis are the people who petitioned our government for more then 12 years to do this. But i'm sure you don't care about those lobbiests, all you care about is the famous term. Blame america. You take someone who obviously didn't want life to change and give them that change of course your going to get that type of blog.

I have responded to all your points in kind and you have done nothing but avoid mine. All you have done is curse and swear at me. Which tells me either your not intellectuals or your just not being rational.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

I agree that they're doing it for themselves. It's interesting that some people think that the president is a representative of the ENTIRE U.S.A. I mean, come on, not all americans are war-mongering old men who go to war over fuel and because a dictator kicked their father's backside before.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

You usage of a Nazi comparison is ridiculous.

You argue that because Stern has displayed more focus on American foreign policy than other issues in the world (surprise surprise, American foreign policy takes the bulk of discussion around here), he therefore doesn't care about other atrocities. Thus far, I've seen nothing to support such a claim. But no, then you go the extra mile to say that because he seemingly doesn't care about those things, he also somehow thought Hitler was a good guy. Erm, what?

Actually, I can't even properly analyze your post since it's so stupid. Just take a long hard look at this quote.

"Or wait I'm guessing your better off where you are in your comfy room with air conditioning bashing america while massive amounts of people are dying, on the scales of what hitler did to the jews. Which I'm sure you don't think was real and was all fabricated by the americans, because after all hitler was a good guy!"

Then hopefully you'll realize how ridiculous you are.

And ANYBODY who thinks we entered Vietnam out of the benevolence of our hearts is lying to themselves.

what you just said had absolutly nothing to do with anything i said. i never said we ented vietnam of the benevolence of our hearts. My father went to vietnam because his little brothers went there. That sounds like a choice he made out of his heart. guess what? His brothers all died. My grandfather and his brothers went to world war 2 out of their hearts. As much as you may hate our governments our people fight for purpose. If you want to hate my government that is fine. But don't you dare insult our peoples generosity. I've lost to many family members fighting other countries wars. I said we entered vietnam because france screwed it up over 100 years. Do some research outside of what they taught you in school for a change. I did not say he thought hitler was a good guy. again you take things out of context. I said based on the attitude that genocide is being allowed by the UN, that the UN acts as if genocide in the past is FINE. thus making hitler a good guy. The fact is genocide on the scales of nazism has been conducted in africa and it has been supported by france, militarily and financially. Those are facts. Facts that the UN knows about, yet still allows the unicorn forces to exist. This debate is far more then american foreign policy. This debate is about the difference between colonization and freedom, somthing you guys don't seem to grasp. As fruitfull and as passionate as the UN are the UN still sit back and allow colonization to exist by your own member states. The UN is americas pawn yet the UN has done much of nothing to do with nothing but bash america. Our policy our foriegn aid, our dues. It could go on for days. The UN called what we did in iraq illegal, yet allowed and condoned and even sent in more french troops to africa as 'peacekeepers' peacekeepers that destroyed an air force? The UN basically has shown complicity to genocide, they let it happen sat back and had tea and watched it happen. Why am I debating with you people. I suggest you all really get away from intellectual debates because you don't even touch the facts. All you do is regergitate political mumbo jumbo used as policy leverage. You could link articles all day the problem is you can't physically discuss the topics. I've been waiting for responses from capt, but instead ive got links of political leverage. Because while you guys sit here crying about america. What will happen to europe when africa declares war on france?

Oh and capt the service was done. I read every link you guys put in here. From the first to last page of this thread. The fact is ive read alot of that stuff before this thread even existed.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

Europe will fight back. America isn't all powerful and benevolent, you know ? (Besides, you sent quite a few of your troops to attack a unnesessary target - Iraq. I wonder how many soldiers you could send to another war).

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

So europe will fight for france, who helped commit genocide against the africans who will declare war on them? You see where this is going? I asked the question because i knew that would be your response. It isn't about us being all powerful, were not all powerful. We are nothing without our allies, genius. The sad thing is you just said you would fight back, back against what? You would fight for france?! Hello am I missing somthing here. so you are saying you support the genocide done in africa to the point that you would fight against africa for france?


We could send quite a few actually. We don't have very many soldiers in iraq. But thats kind of pointless.

I am going to take time to type this and I hope you guys do read it.

In the comming years europe is going to be an equal to the united states in power. Based on your actions in here, I can tell that you guys are quite passionate about right vs wrong. All I ask of you guys is you actually look and make sure that your power is also being used for right. Because currently it seems most of you don't even understand what is going on in africa. It seems as if bel/france has got you all in the shade. That is what really concerns me. Because those are some of the originators of the EU. and like you guys question americas use of power, I question the reasonings behind it. I worry about misuse of power the same way you guys do. But what concerns me most is that outside of the demo/communism realm. That the conflicts excel to freedom vs colonization. The EU bel/france wants to become a counter weight to our policies. A voice outside of the lockstep of america. I agree we need that. But it worries me that the now and past 2 decades of colonizing africa is going to have severe reprocussions. You have african states now speaking out against france. You have had serious franco-african vs african conflicts. Very serious ones. I would hope that when the time comes, you look and make sure that what is going on outside your borders due to your own policy is as fair as you how you currently look at what america is doing outside its boarders based on it's policy. Because if you don't. Our world is in a world of trouble in the future. Thats the rgeat thing about real freedom. Is we can sit here, and believe two completly different things and discuss it and rant over it and almost seem like we hate eachother. We have the freedom of choice. all i hope is that you guys allow that freedom to exist for everyone else.