Ok I know most of you guys think guns are evil, but this right here is just nasty!

Depends on the police force.
LAPD carries shotties and sometimes semi-automatics iirc in their cars. I think NYPD still almost exclusively use handguns?
 
If I'm not mistaken, I recently saw on TV that they now carry automatics in their cruiser, in addition to shotguns.

Probably varies by state.
 
VirusType2 said:
If I'm not mistaken, I recently saw on TV that they now carry automatics in their cruiser, in addition to shotguns.

Probably varies by state.
Click to expand...

MPs and Ar-15s. For most states Ar-15s are standard gear.
 
Eejit said:
As I already said, it's about the degree of deadliness of the weapon.

Civilians shouldn't have that degree of access to weapons which are more effective than standard issue cop firearms. (If I was a politician I would here insinuate that you're in favour of cop-killing :p)
Click to expand...

As a cadet in my states police academy, and as a former security contractor. I will flat out say that you are ****ing stupid.
You will never understand that the person shooting is the problem not the firearm. You are spouting shit that you have no knowlege of, Hell have you even used a firearm before? Or are you a Rosie odonell fan?

Why don't you do some reading and see why the right to bear arms is so important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

In my mind you and Hitler are friends, Hitler disarmed his civilians long before he started is march across Europe.
 
Even if the police all had M16A4s (or whatever) in their cars civilians having access to similar weapons would still concern me. The police aren't going to have the heavier weapons with them all the time, as a rule shotguns etc. are left in the trunk if the cop doesn't have reason to believe it'll be needed.

Edit: way-hey, Godwin's Law. Nice job discrediting yourself.
 
Eejit said:
Even if the police all had M16A4s (or whatever) in their cars civilians having access to similar weapons would still concern me. The police aren't going to have the heavier weapons with them all the time, as a rule shotguns etc. are left in the trunk if the cop doesn't have reason to believe it'll be needed.

Edit: way-hey, Godwin's Law. Nice job discrediting yourself.
Click to expand...

From what you are saying, is that everyone with a firearm other than a musket. Is a cop killer.

Edit, you called me a cop killer first. So STFU and deal with it.
 
I didn't say you were a cop killer, nice reading comprehension.

I said that that's what a politician (i.e. someone appealing to emotion to discredit his opponent) would say.
 
the only sensible thing to do at this point is buy more guns than sig and post pictures...:)
 
Eejit said:
I didn't say you were a cop killer, nice reading comprehension.

I said that that's what a politician (i.e. someone appealing to emotion to discredit his opponent) would say.
Click to expand...

"If I was a politician I would here insinuate that you're in favour of cop-killing"

That is pretty much the same as calling me a cop killer.

I am not going to waste anymore time on you. If/when something happens, you are
1. Going to die.
2. Be someones bitch.
3. Grow some balls and understand what it means to be a man, get a firearm and be ready.

I have gotten into to many fights with people like you. I will not waste my time on another person that does not understand the basics of the constitution.
 
guns don't kill anyone, stupid people do. but i still hate guns, even more than i hate stupid people.
 
It really isn't the same thing. English not your strong point?

"Something happens"? Like a zombie apocalypse? ^^

The second amendment doesn't actually state you have the right to bear any and all types of arms does it? It doesn't preclude limits as to which types of firearm should be allowed.



Yeah Seppo, guns just make it really really easy for stupid people to kill people.
 
Eejit said:
It really isn't the same thing. English not your strong point?

"Something happens"? Like a zombie apocalypse? ^^

The second amendment doesn't actually state you have the right to bear any and all types of arms does it? It doesn't preclude limits as to which types of firearm should be allowed.



Yeah Seppo, guns just make it really really easy for stupid people to kill people.
Click to expand...

right now you pissed me the **** off

If you are stupid enough to think that there are not people that would love to see america destroyed, then all I can say is that you are stupid.
 
And if you think that a small percentage of citizens owning assault rifles would derail a plot big enough to destroy the entire county then you're living in a dream. -.-

Why not calm down a little, I never insulted you personally despite what you may think (other than casting aspersions on your reading comprehension, but that's not worth getting worked up about) and we're just having a bit of back-and-forth about gun control. What's wrong with reasonable debate?
 
According the the National Opinion Research Center, as of 2006, 21.6% of Americans own guns.
Click to expand...
3,500,000 American citizens.

math

756,000 armed citizens

another source:
Thirty-eight percent of Americans report having a gun in their homes, and another 2% say they have a gun elsewhere on their properties
Click to expand...

1,400,000 armed citizens

Also we have army, navy, air force, police forces, coast guard, boarder patrol and FBI agents all armed.

most terrorist plots are very small involving a dozen people or less.
 
VirusType2 said:
3,500,000 American citizens.

math

162,037 armed citizens

Also we have army, navy, air force, police forces, coast guard, boarder patrol and FBI agents all armed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they kinda make Joe Random Gun Owner (who has no idea what's going on where, when or who's involved) redundant.
 
I own an industrial garden hose with a fertilizer attachment, I'm pretty sure that makes me a one-man bastion of nation security. Please don't contest that, Eejit.
 
Well obviously garden hoses with fertilizer attachment are a whole different story, they're far more effective at intelligently and independently seeking out trrsts than guns are.
 
Eejit said:
Yeah, they kinda make Joe Random Gun Owner (who has no idea what's going on where, when or who's involved) redundant.
Click to expand...

I made a mistake, it's actually somewhere between 756,000 and 1,400,000 armed citizens


Oh I see the bold now.

No, it means that 1/3 of our citizens are armed and are not helpless targets.
 
I'm saying if it comes to the point that the fate of your country relies on a civilian milita, you're already pretty much ****ed.
This ain't the 18th or 19th century.
 
Ok does anyone actually agree with me when I say that all this enthusiasm for guns and shooting them is a tad strange?
 
Whatever floats their boat, as a hobby. But getting too emotionally involved in discussions like this is pretty odd.
 
I'm saying if it comes to the point that the fate of your country relies on a civilian milita, you're already pretty much ****ed.
This ain't the 18th or 19th century.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. This is all hypothetical, but the way I see it, if your government military is defeated your unarmed citizens will have no defense. Maybe they won't even be interested in taking hostages.

I have received medals for expert marksmanship and I'll be damned if I don't take up arms in defense, if it ever really came to that. And I'm sure a lot of other US gun owners feel the same way.
 
Buts its an obsession with the tools to kill, which is very dodgey imo.

And if it comes to a point of a civilian militia you are ****ed anyway, despite having all these weapons, you aren't professionally trained with them and no matter how much you think, you don't know how to use the weapons effectively nor can you predict you will have the courage to stand and fight without all the proper training that prepare you for the horrors of battle, if the army goes, we are ****ed. Its such a ludicrous scenario anyway.
 
Some people have 100's of games or movies. Some people find guns more entertaining.

I'm certainly not obsessed with them personally. I'm not even interested in them. I'm more interested in talking about them or playing a video game featuring them.
 
He's exercising one of his constitutional rights. I see nothing wrong with it.
 
Well that all depends who you are asking. I don't think so.
 
So if it's legal it's laudable?
Click to expand...
I appreciate the great deal of concern some of you have, but USA seems to be doing fine and has commonly been regarded as the most powerful nation on Earth. And our basic rights haven't changed since conception. We must have done something right to get in this position.

I don't have that information, but if a ban on assault weapons is shown to noticeably reduce murder then I'm all for a ban of them, or voting someone in power that will fix the problem.

However, I see no reason to take away liberties simply because I don't appreciate them or am not taking advantage of them.
 
Shift said:
Buts its an obsession with the tools to kill, which is very dodgey imo.

And if it comes to a point of a civilian militia you are ****ed anyway, despite having all these weapons, you aren't professionally trained with them and no matter how much you think.
Click to expand...

That right there is funny. People in the military or law enforcement are not automatically "gun" people. Alot of them only practice when they have to. They basically know how to shoot a certain rifle and sometimes a pistol. I shoot out to 600yds on a regular basis. I'd go further but I have no place to shoot furhter. I know how to build ar15's and how to work on and or modify many different types of guns. I detail strip certain guns yearly like my 1911's so every single part is dismantled for cleaning. Are you trying to tell me that someone who knows a weapons detailed innards, weaknesses, etc is not going to know an effective way to shoot it?

I can tell you right now that I know I can out shoot most people I meet in law enforcement or military. They are taught in such a way that even stupid people could understand and that's good. Now I do not have the training to work as a unit with a group of people but to suggest that some Joe Blow that went through boot camp can handle a weapon better than someone who shoots thousands and thousands of rounds regularly is laughable. I am not saying that they are bad but being in the military doesn't make you suddenly an "expert". I am not claiming to be an "expert" either. As a civilian you can take many training courses. The sky is the limit for that stuff. I think there is a place near by called badlands tactical that does beginners, intermediate, and advanced courses for pistols, shotguns, carbines, and precision rifles. It's just not my thing. The only thing I really practice "seriously" is for concealed carry. I carry my Wilson CQB compact in a inside the waist band holster. I will regularly practice drawing to fire double taps, triple taps, reloads etc at man sized targets. Mostly shooting is a hobby.
 
I personally don't doubt most of the gun owners would be able to shoot accurately in the event of a militia scenario. I just have a hard time believing it would do any good if things had already gotten to such a point.
 
What about that Japanese soldier who lived out in the woods for 40 years after the war had ended, refusing to surrender.

now imagine over a million American gun owning civilians doing the same thing.

In fact, most gun owners own more than one weapon, and could supply other family members if need be, increasing these numbers dramatically.

Using the media outlets, civilians can become organized, especially in cooperation with armed forces.

My brother had been firing guns since about 9 years old, and began successfully hunting on his own at about 11.
 
VirusType2 said:
Using the media outlets, civilians can become organized, especially in cooperation with armed forces.
Click to expand...

So in this hypothetical situation that the armed forces, law enforcement and all government has been eradicated by some Enemy, leaving only a civilian militia this Enemy would leave media outlets alone and allow them to organise a resistance? Right...

Well in that case a million american geurillas trying to live off the land like a lone japanese soldier would mostly starve to death.
 
SIGbastard said:
That right there is funny. People in the military or law enforcement are not automatically "gun" people. Alot of them only practice when they have to. They basically know how to shoot a certain rifle and sometimes a pistol. I shoot out to 600yds on a regular basis. I'd go further but I have no place to shoot furhter. I know how to build ar15's and how to work on and or modify many different types of guns. I detail strip certain guns yearly like my 1911's so every single part is dismantled for cleaning. Are you trying to tell me that someone who knows a weapons detailed innards, weaknesses, etc is not going to know an effective way to shoot it?

I can tell you right now that I know I can out shoot most people I meet in law enforcement or military. They are taught in such a way that even stupid people could understand and that's good. Now I do not have the training to work as a unit with a group of people but to suggest that some Joe Blow that went through boot camp can handle a weapon better than someone who shoots thousands and thousands of rounds regularly is laughable. I am not saying that they are bad but being in the military doesn't make you suddenly an "expert". I am not claiming to be an "expert" either. As a civilian you can take many training courses. The sky is the limit for that stuff. I think there is a place near by called badlands tactical that does beginners, intermediate, and advanced courses for pistols, shotguns, carbines, and precision rifles. It's just not my thing. The only thing I really practice "seriously" is for concealed carry. I carry my Wilson CQB compact in a inside the waist band holster. I will regularly practice drawing to fire double taps, triple taps, reloads etc at man sized targets. Mostly shooting is a hobby.
Click to expand...

You still wouldn't know where to begin in a proper battle situation though, if you and a band of civilian militia retaliated against a fully trained army unit, you would be gunned down within seconds. That alone disregards your supposed grasp of firing a firearm, on the civilian militia topic anyway. As a hobby, well I really don't see how shooting at cardboard, bottles or what have you, wasting thousands of rounds of ammunition a day can be seen as a constructive past time but its your life lol.
 
Shift said:
As a hobby, well I really don't see how shooting at cardboard, bottles or what have you, wasting thousands of rounds of ammunition a day can be seen as a constructive past time but its your life lol.
Click to expand...


That's because you have no real understanding of shooting as a hobby/recreation. I don't shoot thousands of rounds in one day.

Shooting can be as informal and laid back or as skilled disciplined as you want it to be. If you reload for instance you can load up a bunch of rounds according to published data. Alternatively you could get a bullet comparator and other instruments which allows you to measure the exact headspace of a particular rifle. You would then get a precision mic to allow you to set your sizing die to size brass to the exact optimal dimensions for that exact rifle. The comparator would allow you to measure exactly where the what overall length of a cartridge particular type of bullet needs to be for the ogive of the bullet to be in the proper place for your chamber in one particular rifle. Even then you can still experiment with some different lengths as long as you stay below the max length. You also slowly work up the powder charge to with varying types of powder to find what works best. I could probably type for pages about different stuff you can do. So don't assume it's all about blasting crap. I do my share of blasting but I also shoot for accuracy and it takes alot of experimenting to find what works and what doesn't and under what conditions, ranges, etc. Some powders can be affected by temperature some what making a safe charge in colder condtions start to show signs of excessive pressure in the summer heat.

There are competitions every week at the clubs I am a member at. So like I said don't make assumptions. It can be a hobby, a sport, something that takes great concentration and dedication, or something to just blow off steam.


The comment about going against a battalion is kinda stupid. I have no plans to organize against a batallion and seriously doubt it would every come to that. I do think that millions of Americans fighting using guerrilla tactics could effectively cripple any invading military. We have more guns here than any where in the world. I don't have deluded fantasies about Red Dawn happening though like some gun nuts. I just want to be a dentist and keep to myself.

Here's a good quote:

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (the chief planner of the Pearl Harbor attack) spoke warningly of "a rifle behind every blade of grass" when discussions of invading the USA came up.
 
Hey! We live in the 21st centry! Civilised nations do not invade others in the 21st cen- oh, wait...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Krynn72
You guys, what the **** is up.
Replies
11
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
MFL
Fascinating look at the ongoing psychological evolution of flat hieirarchies.
Replies
2
Views
2K
Tollbooth Willie
Tollbooth Willie
B
From Warren Spector to Arkane Studios: Half-Life 2's cancelled Ravenholm episode
Replies
2
Views
10K
Clan Wolf 2
Clan Wolf 2
B
Marc Laidlaw releases Half-Life 2: Episode Three's plot
Replies
32
Views
39K
BabyHeadCrab
BabyHeadCrab
V
I had a tour at the Valve HQ recently, this is what I found out.
Replies
8
Views
9K
UshankaCat
UshankaCat
Back
Top