OMG!!! Kerry's people are getting desperate!

[moz4rt]

Ok so the Kerry campaign just gave CBS News a document from 1973 that "tells the truth about Bush's military records". This was announced by Dan Rather on CBS Evening News (which, for you foreign people, is a hugely popular news program).

Here's a little excerpt from the article in the Chicago Sun Times-

The only problem was the memo. Amazingly, this guy at the Air National Guard base, Lt. Col. Killian, had the only typewriter in Texas in 1973 using a prototype version of the default letter writing program of Microsoft Word, complete with the tiny little superscript thingy that automatically changes July 4th to July 4th. To do that on most 1973 typewriters, you had to unscrew the keys, grab a hammer and give them a couple of thwacks to make the ''t'' and ''h'' squish up all tiny, and even think it looked a bit wonky. You'd think having such a unique typewriter Killian would have used a less easily traceable model for his devastating ''CYA'' memo. Also, he might have chosen a font other than Times New Roman, designed for the Times of London in the 1930s and not licensed to Microsoft by Rupert Murdoch (the Times' owner) until the 1980s.


This is just getting crazy. Why must they make fake documents? You folks here on halflife2.net can come up with a better argument against Bush than Kerry can!


HERE is the source.

 

[CyberSh33p]

weren't typewriters invented in the early 1900s? if not earlier?

 

[blahblahblah]

Second source

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/10/bush.guard.ap/index.html

Also, I doubt Kerry had anything to do with this. A bunch of left-wing nutballs trying to make Bush look bad is going to make Kerry look worse.

Funny how stuff backfires on people. :O

 

[Foxtrot]

Yah that was retarded, I saw that last night.

 

[JFry]

weren't typewriters invented in the early 1900s? if not earlier?

Heheh I noticed that too, I'm pretty sure the military was already working on the internet in 1973. Maybe that was a typo?

 

[crabcakes66]

Ummm.....


Microsoft word....???


They must be talking about early word proccessors....not a completly mechanical type writer.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I heard about that yesturday, I was laughing, even if it wasn't Kerry, it still makes it look like he staged it, which equals, lower points, him and Bush were about 3 points apart about 2 or 3 months ago, now its like 11 or 12 points.

 

[DreamThrall]

...it could be Bush operatives, knowing it would backfire, trying to make Kerry look bad.... hmmmm......

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

...it could be Bush operatives, knowing it would backfire, trying to make Kerry look bad.... hmmmm......

Doubtful, I can't see Bush acting in a stupid way like this, plus it was talking bad of Bush, so why make himself look stupid if they never believed it was fake?

 

[DreamThrall]

I didn't say Bush, I said bush OPERATIVES... I thought it was fairly obvious that neither of the official campaigns had anything to do with this.

 

[NeptuneUK]

Doubtful, I can't see Bush acting in a stupid way like this

lol bush never does dumb shit...

 

[hasan]

lol bush never does dumb shit...

haha .. if it's a stupid thing, it's probably bush who does it

newayz ... there are just so many things wrong with bush, I don't think his past military service is most important one.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I don't think his past military service is most important one.

Well obviously thats all Kerry has got, is his purple hearts, but even those are sketchy ones.

Plus if you read it, the memo is fake looking..they are analyzing it now I think???

 

[Ames]

These people are just plain stupid. :|

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I am sorry, but my respect for American politics is near enough zero now... and I dont think I am the only one to be honest.


(Not an attack on America)


I just dont get it. I mean all US politics seems to be these days is:

1. Get the biggest names and the most expensive publicity.

2. Insult and discredit the oposition as much as posible with absolutely no punches kept back.

3. But most of all the fact that they talk more about each other than their own god damn policies.



It all seems to be that you Americans are just told stories about each party and its left up to you and your imagination to decide who is telling the truth/lieing.


Its just plain silly to me....

 

[Neutrino]

Ok so the Kerry campaign just gave CBS News a document from 1973 that "tells the truth about Bush's military records". This was announced by Dan Rather on CBS Evening News (which, for you foreign people, is a hugely popular news program).

This is just getting crazy. Why must they make fake documents? You folks here on halflife2.net can come up with a better argument against Bush than Kerry can!

God damn it, this kind of post could seriously piss me off. Some people will probably read what you wrote and just believe it. Yet you completely misrepresent what is happening, and even outright lie about it. I ask you, please refrain from posting things like this in the future.

Here's what is actually happening:

To begin, your source is a completely biased opinion column. Just for future reference, opinion column tend not to make good factual sources. Here's why I say this:

The guy is a columnist for the suntimes and his name is listed under "news and views". Here's an example of some of the other opinion articles he has written:

Kerry's showing he just can't take the heat

Who's to blame for nation's Vietnam wounds? Kerry

Dems play second fiddle to celebrity egos

Democrats peddle their own unique truth

Notice the slight bias he seems to have? He is not a reliable and/or factual news source. Also for some reason this is a Sept. 12th article when today is Sept 11. All the guy did was read what was reported in the news, form his own opinion about it and write it down.

To respond to what you specifically said in your post:

Ok so the Kerry campaign just gave CBS News a document from 1973 that "tells the truth about Bush's military records".

The Kerry campaign had nothing to do with it. It was solely CBS news which unearthed the documents. This has never even been questioned and is baseless and biased speculation.

This was announced by Dan Rather on CBS Evening News (which, for you foreign people, is a hugely popular news program).

Yes, that's true because it was CBS news who found them.

This is just getting crazy. Why must they make fake documents? You folks here on halflife2.net can come up with a better argument against Bush than Kerry can!

Nobody knows if they are fake! Some experts are currently questioning their authenticity while other experts maintain that they are genuine. Do think about this though, CBS news has a lot of reputation to lose if they are fake, which is why they had them tested before bringing them forward. That's not a decision they would have taken lightly.

Even the whitehouse isn't claiming they are fake, they just say they don't know, just like everybody else. Here's their position on the subject:

Bush spokesman Scott McClellan said Friday that the White House, which distributed the memos after obtaining them from CBS, was not trying to verify their authenticity. “We don’t know if the documents are fabricated or authentic,” McClellan told reporters traveling with the president to West Virginia.

Here are a couple real news stories on the subject:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/10/bush.guard.ap/index.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5963843/

And a news story on it from CBS news as well:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

Oh and a lot of this is about the "superscript". Well here's some interesting information on that from the CBS article:

Critics claim typewriters didn't have that ability in the 1970s. But some models did, Rather reported. In fact, other Bush military records already released by the White House itself show the same superscript – including one from as far back as 1968.

I'm not saying the memos are true or false. I'm only saying it is completely unclear at this time.

And about the whole thing, yes I agree we've seen some dirty politics on both sides this election. However, this was not the doing of one of the candidates. It was an independent news organization which is doing this. Also, Kerry has had his war record and reputation constantly examined and raked over the coals numerous times. I don't see how it's suddently so horrible to have a little bit of the same happen to Bush.

You want to see dirty politics? Just read about Cheney's recent quote last Tuesday. He basically implied that if Kerry is elected we'll be attacked by terrorists again. Now that is dirty politics in my opinion.

Cheney said in Des Moines on Tuesday that it was essential that Americans make the right choice in the Nov. 2 president election “because if we make the wrong choice, then the danger is that we’ll get hit again.”

 

[CptStern]

ouch, ripped to shreds, nice work neutrino :thumbs:

 

[el Chi]

Well obviously thats all Kerry has got, is his purple hearts, but even those are sketchy ones.

...and we all know what a success Bush has been throughout his life.

Neutrino - nice work, mate.

 

[CyberSh33p]

A third propsage to neutrino
Shows that everyone is a lying scoundrel who my dear friend Watson and I will vanquish with our wizard-swords!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

"OMG!!! Kerry's people are getting desperate!"

Based on Neutrino's facts about your post, I don't think it's Kerry's people who are desperate to cling to something. And it's not the facts they're clinging to.

Of course, if the extremely spurious claims of the Swift Boat Veterans can continue to be believed even now, you can bet that these documents will continue to be attributed to Kerry directly for the remainder of the campaign.


By the way, putting "OMG!!!" in your title caused me to spontaneously roll my eyes away with a unique combination of ashamedness, disgust and pity.

The fact that the rest of the title tells nothing about the actual contents didn't help either.

 

[Korgoth]

Nice one neutrino.

 

[Incitatus]

Lol 'real news stories' that's awesome

especially having CNN and msnbc in the list

I'm not trying to be an ass or anything that just cracked me up.

EDIT: Anyway it doesn't really matter the Kerry camp lost this a couple of weeks before the RNC and they know it too.

:afro:

 

[blahblahblah]

*snip*

Whoa, settle down there. Give yourself a heart attack early in life if you keep doing that.

Based on Neutrino's facts about your post, I don't think it's Kerry's people who are desperate to cling to something. And it's not the facts they're clinging to.

You're wrong. Both parties are coming to desperate tactics. That is a fact.

Since this upcoming presidential election will be so close, I expect the tatics to get worse. Much worse. I just hope that both parties actually try to discuss their policies instead of "unearthing damning evidence from their past."

 

[CyberSh33p]

Whoa, settle down there. Give yourself a heart attack early in life if you keep doing that.




You're wrong. Both parties are coming to desperate tactics. That is a fact.

Since this upcoming presidential election will be so close, I expect the tatics to get worse. Much worse. I just hope that both parties actually try to discuss their policies instead of "unearthing damning evidence from their past."

kerry: you're a war-ditcher!
bush: I know you are but what am I?

 

[Revisedsoul]

i dont know what is worse. that article or the fact that the main battle on the political agenda is their ****ing service records 30 years ago other than policies and such.

oh wait yes i do, and its not the first one


p.s. love the sig sheep

 

[CyberSh33p]

i dont know what is worse. that article or the fact that the main battle on the political agenda is their ****ing service records 30 years ago other than policies and such.

oh wait yes i do, and its not the first one


p.s. love the sig sheep

thanks

and as jon stewart(or was it lewis black) said, the main topic of discussion for the 2004 elections is a war from 35 years ago.
thats really pathetic when you think about it actually :\

 

[Mr.Reak]

Funny eh… I swear, I came to that conclusion by reading that article…. I swear!

But I got idea here, how about do this, people who go to vote, using electronic machines, will be dealt with force: If you vote for Kerry, you are unpatriotic son of a bitch, a damn hippie tree ****ing ass taker, you are EVIL, you are terrorist. So you get electrocuted by machine, so guys, vote for Bush, GOD is on his side, HE IS A JESUS OF OUR TIME! GOD BLESS AMERICA! 9/11 NEVA FORGET!

P.S. BLACK PEOPLE ARE EVIL TOO, CUZ JESUS WAS NOT BROWN BUT WHITE!

P.S.S JAPS ARE TERRORISTS AND NAZIS

P.S.S.S MEXICANS ARE LAZY

P.S.S.S.S. WHITE POWER?!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

You're wrong. Both parties are coming to desperate tactics. That is a fact.

I've not seen much desperate from the dems, except for desperately digging out of the crapload of Bush's propaganda that keeps getting shoved onto them. "moz4rt" kinda shows what the democrats are up against. Arguments made by people who don't understand the facts about trivial happenings from decades ago.

If Bush just said "John Kerry is Osama bin Laden wearing a mask" tomorrow, you could bet that it will be considered fact by a good 30% of the US. "moz4rt" Would be up there with a post titled "WTF??? Democrats are Osama bin Laden not Bush though LOL!!!"

Since this upcoming presidential election will be so close, I expect the tatics to get worse. Much worse. I just hope that both parties actually try to discuss their policies instead of "unearthing damning evidence from their past."

It's already well past that point, I've seen. Bush's main argument is now that 9/11 will happen again if Kerry is elected. :/

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I didn't say Bush, I said bush OPERATIVES... I thought it was fairly obvious that neither of the official campaigns had anything to do with this.

Just like...Bush's campaign had nothing to do with the Swiftboat Veterans. I hate politics.

Nobody knows if they are fake!

Yes, some people do. Lots of sources outside of CBS are currently investigating the authenticity of the ink used on the documents.

CBS news has a lot of reputation to lose if they are fake, which is why they had them tested before bringing them forward. That's not a decision they would have taken lightly.

Wow, thats the most airheaded thing I ever heard. CBS just made a gamble by producing this information, and allowing a 527 Article to publish Commercials on their channel about "Bush, not fit for re-election".

Chris Matthews had the commericial on his program no more then four hours ago. They were discussing a documentary about the veterans that served with Kerry, and this commericial. This did'nt do it for me. The Veterans are'nt apart of CBS.

The Commercial did it for me. It was apart of CBS.

CBS has just removed any credability as a nuetral source for delivering political information. Just. Because. Of. That.

However, this was not the doing of one of the candidates. It was an independent news organization which is doing this. Also, Kerry has had his war record and reputation constantly examined and raked over the coals numerous times. I don't see how it's suddently so horrible to have a little bit of the same happen to Bush.

Well, because it was so horrible that the Bush crowd critisized an issue that Kerry brought up. Its the same piss and moan, just a different party this time.

You're wrong. Both parties are coming to desperate tactics. That is a fact.

Since this upcoming presidential election will be so close, I expect the tatics to get worse. Much worse. I just hope that both parties actually try to discuss their policies instead of "unearthing damning evidence from their past."

Thank you, Blah.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

P.S. BLACK PEOPLE ARE EVIL TOO, CUZ JESUS WAS NOT BROWN BUT WHITE!

P.S.S JAPS ARE TERRORISTS AND NAZIS

P.S.S.S MEXICANS ARE LAZY

P.S.S.S.S. WHITE POWER?!

Aaacchoo! Ooops, sorry guys! I'm allergic to bullshit.

It's already well past that point, I've seen. Bush's main argument is now that 9/11 will happen again if Kerry is elected. :/

Too bad, he's getting elected.

 

[Neutrino]

Lol 'real news stories' that's awesome

especially having CNN and msnbc in the list

I'm not trying to be an ass or anything that just cracked me up.

EDIT: Anyway it doesn't really matter the Kerry camp lost this a couple of weeks before the RNC and they know it too.

:afro:

Did you actually read both articles? If you can find an obvious bias in either one then please let me know.

Heh, thanks for the support guys.


And blahblahblah, yes I know. If politics continues the way it has been I'll probably by dead by 25 of a heart attack. But remember this thread? http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35285&page=2&pp=15

I think we all have certain triggers which set us off a bit. Using opinion articles as fact to bolster one's own views is just one of those things for me, heh.

Yes, some people do. Lots of sources outside of CBS are currently investigating the authenticity of the ink used on the documents.

"Currently investigating"

Since when is that the same thing as it being proven they are fake? Some people say it is fake, some people say it is real. By saying "nobody knows' I meant we as the American public do not know at this time for sure one way or the other.

Wow, thats the most airheaded thing I ever heard. CBS just made a gamble by producing this information, and allowing a 527 Article to publish Commercials on their channel about "Bush, not fit for re-election".

Thanks, yes I reguraly pump my head full of air to try to get rid of any lingering pesky thoughts thay might try to hang around.

So your basically saying that CBS news has no reputation to uphold by producing accurate news? Your saying they're just a recklessly biased news source that doesn't care about accuracy at all and will just print any random document they can get their hand on to promote their own views and be damned the consequences? Uhuh.

And you base this argument on the fact that they aired an anti bush commercial on their channel. Ok....

Considering that, I don't anyone can stand a chance of changing your mind about it, so believe what you want.

 

[blahblahblah]

I've not seen much desperate from the dems, except for desperately digging out of the crapload of Bush's propaganda that keeps getting shoved onto them. "moz4rt" kinda shows what the democrats are up against. Arguments made by people who don't understand the facts about trivial happenings from decades ago.

Google has a way of ranking sites based on popularity (and other factors). Lets Google each canidates name and see what pops up.

http://www.google.com/search?q=George+Bush&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

On the first page of Google, Google had three negatives sites about George Bush. And one about his father. :O

http://www.google.com/search?q=John+Kerry&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

on the first page of Google, Google had one negative site about John Kerry.

If Bush just said "John Kerry is Osama bin Laden wearing a mask" tomorrow, you could bet that it will be considered fact by a good 30% of the US. "moz4rt" Would be up there with a post titled "WTF??? Democrats are Osama bin Laden not Bush though LOL!!!"

That is American society for you. Too many dumb people in the United States. Luckily voter participation is at an all time low so the "moron" effect is minimized. Most voters tend to have a college education. Hopefully, if you have gone to college, you should at least have some common sense and hopefully have the ability to critically analyze topics like that.

I wish I can find a poll showing you how dumb some Americans are. It is amazing. We have TV shows that capitalizes on people's stupidity (show called Street Smarts).

It's already well past that point, I've seen. Bush's main argument is now that 9/11 will happen again if Kerry is elected. :/

As is Kerry.

 

[blahblahblah]

And blahblahblah, yes I know. If politics continues the way it has been I'll probably by dead by 25 of a heart attack. But remember this thread? http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35285&page=2&pp=15

You see, mine was a incoherent, belligerent rant. Yours was a carefully planned, strategic rant. Your rants shouldn't be that way.

 

[SidewinderX]

K e r b e r o s: If you think CBS isn't a reputable source because they ran a fricking political ad, you have alot to learn about the way "business" works. People pay money to broadcasters. Broadcasters take money, run ad. Ad is seen on tv. Unless it violates FCC regualtions, a TV station will run any ad. Why? BECAUSE IT'S A BUISNESS.



and I'd like to say this....

No matter what you say about Kerry's medals, he was there. period. He risked his life for his country. That's more than W can claim.

 

[CyberSh33p]

No matter what you say about Kerry's medals, he was there. period. He risked his life for his country. That's more than W can claim.

its really so ironic that bush is attacking kerry's war record :\
and yet people still listen to him...

 

[Joeslucky22]

wow neutrino..

Run for president or something..

Not that I agree with what you have to say, but when it comes to politics, you burst like a boil on a 400lb man's ass.

Bush will win. If he doesn't I fear for america.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure "WE WILL be at a higher risk of getting attacked with a new president"

No, Shit.

I full heartingly agree with what Cheny had to say.

The perfect time for a terrorist to strike is when a country is being led by a man who has never been president before.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Google has a way of ranking sites based on popularity (and other factors). Lets Google each canidates name and see what pops up.

http://www.google.com/search?q=George+Bush&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

On the first page of Google, Google had three negatives sites about George Bush. And one about his father. :O

http://www.google.com/search?q=John+Kerry&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

on the first page of Google, Google had one negative site about John Kerry.

Obviously there's a lot more people who totally hate Bush than totally despise Kerry. Negative claims are fine, so long as they're valid. The problem comes when harmful claims are made without the facts.

"Bush can't define soverignty." That's a negative statement, but it's on video. You can go watch it anytime. You can see recorded firsthand evidence of this blunder.

"Kerry is not a hero." That's a negative statement, but it's not backed by any facts outside the sudden politically motivated testimony of ten people who support Bush and hate Kerry for his anti-vietnam stance.

My point was that there are more contrived, prominent and publicised attacks coming from the Bush team.
So far, Kerry has not done anything remotely close to the damaging, manipulative falsehood of the Swift Boat morons.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Not that I agree with what you have to say, but when it comes to politics, you burst like a boil on a 400lb man's ass.

That's a fancifully low-brow way to describe Neutino's total destruction of "moz4rt's" baseless accusation.

LOL you said ass!!! I'll ignore the facts now!

Bush will win. If he doesn't I fear for america.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure "WE WILL be at a higher risk of getting attacked with a new president"

No, Shit.

I full heartingly agree with what Cheny had to say.

The perfect time for a terrorist to strike is when a country is being led by a man who has never been president before.

VOTE BUSH OR DIE!

Let's let terrorists dictate who we vote for!
That'll stop them from thinking they have power over political matters and the american public!

 

[CyberSh33p]

wow neutrino..

Run for president or something..

Not that I agree with what you have to say, but when it comes to politics, you burst like a boil on a 400lb man's ass.

Bush will win. If he doesn't I fear for america.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure "WE WILL be at a higher risk of getting attacked with a new president"

No, Shit.

I full heartingly agree with what Cheny had to say.

The perfect time for a terrorist to strike is when a country is being led by a man who has never been president before.

...rather than a man who has been and led our country into a state of the highest unemployment rates and weakest economy in years, as well as a war we didn't have to fight?
and worsened our outside image tenfold?

 

[blahblahblah]

Obviously there's a lot more people who totally hate Bush than totally despise Kerry. Negative claims are fine, so long as they're valid. The problem comes when harmful claims are made without the facts.

"Bush can't define soverignty." That's a negative statement, but it's on video. You can go watch it anytime. You can see recorded firsthand evidence of this blunder.

"Kerry is not a hero." That's a negative statement, but it's not backed by any facts outside the sudden politically motivated testimony of ten people who support Bush and hate Kerry for his anti-vietnam stance.

My point was that there are more contrived, prominent and publicised attacks coming from the Bush team.
So far, Kerry has not done anything remotely close to the damaging, manipulative falsehood of the Swift Boat morons.

Swift boat ads had nothing to do with Bush. Yet, you attribute it to Bush. If Kerry had the same thing, you wouldn't say a thing would you?

What about the latest political ads from the DNC (or whoever) that directly blames the latest economic recession on Bush. Educated people know that this is not true. However, the ads are targeted to blue collar workers. Shouldn't you be criticizing those ad makers as well?

Hmmm...seems like Kerry and Bush are in the same sinking boat.