Out of Body Experiences and Games

[ÞIcarus]

I know the topic will be strange to most of you, but I'm creating this thread to seriously explore a possible function of Out of Body Experiences(OOBEs). I have been having regular OOBEs for 5 years. I learned this skill after a spontaneous Lucid Dream(LD) and my subsequent research into deeper levels of dreaming than the average dream experience. I don't want to make a really convoluted post about my past and how I got into it and what it's like etc, I just want to get to the point. If you have questions I would be happy to answer them, however.


An OOBE can be quickly and fundamentally defined for the purpose of this thread as a state of consciousness in which the mind has conscious access to deeper levels "mental landscapes". People will call these astral planes, or spiritual realities, or substitute one of a thousand fluffy new age names, but what they are called and what they actually are is really unimportant to why I'm making this thread or what I intend to achieve. Lets just say when you have an OOBE, it's something like detatching from your physical location and "going" to a "place" that can be accurately compared to a virtual reality in which, much like a LD, you are in control and can shape the environment by thought. And not only can you exist in this state, but you can be joined by other OOBErs.

I've been doing this, like I said, for 5 years. At some point about 2 years ago it occured to me, since I am a gamer, that the gaming application of such a thing is tremendous. It's better than virtual reality, because the state you actually achieve is something that is completely indistinguishable from reality in every way. So me and 3 people that I knew from an OOBEing community started experimenting with the possibility of creating a kind of virtual reality gaming system with the act of OOBEing. In short, we created a system of guidlines to make something like a dungeons and dragons scenario that could be played out. One person would induce an OOBE and create an environemnt, like a dungeon with monsters and such, and the others would later project into this created environment and "play" against the game created by the maker of the environment. Every facet of the environment would be controlled by the one who made the scenario, and the others would just run around and do whatever it is the Architect(the name we created for the one who made the environemnt) imagined for them. The results have been amazing and it's something our little group, now up to 6 people, do one a regular basis. About once a week if time permits.

Now, the reason I am making this thread is to guage the level of interest the general gaming population would have in a group like mine. I am interested in expanding the group to an all out community, and I want too see if anyone is interested in more information or think they might be up for commiting to something like this.

It wont be easy for someone new to come right in. Personally it took me 5 months to learn how to "project", and another 5 months atleast to become competent with the skill. Some can do it in shorter time, some take longer. So keep the learning curve in mind. Of course the community would develope a kind of carriculum to guide a newcomer through the learning process and help them develope their skill.


So, I want to keep this post as short as possible so I will stop here. If you have questions let me know, and let me know how it all sounds. I know many of you will think this is crazy, thats natural. :sniper:

 

[ÞIcarus]

Just want to make something clear, of course I am not talking about a paying community.

 

[Ennui]

what the hell?

sounds very interesting, but also, like you said, completely batfuck insane.

prove that this is valid?

 

[Puzzlemaker]

what the hell?

sounds very interesting, but also, like you said, completely batfuck insane.

prove that this is valid?

I have to side with ennui on this one.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

This reminds me of Cowboy Bebop episode Brain Scratch.

 

[lePobz]

I can vouch for OOBEs being genuine and quite extraordinary, having had one myself. I've come close several more times - and the whole experience is just insane. Not sure about the connection with gaming though?

 

[ÞIcarus]

what the hell?

sounds very interesting, but also, like you said, completely bat**** insane.

prove that this is valid?

Your reaction is understandable, I imagine most people will react this way, if just a little less interested. Unfortunately the only verification is in the experience. We come out of the experience with nothing left of it other than our memory of it having taken place. There really isn't anything I can offer in the way of proof or to convince you. If you were to begin training and practicing, even if it takes you 5 months before you actually attain your first OOBE as it did me, you will begin to have experiences right off the bat to let you know your not wasting your time. But it's the nature of the beast that you have to actually try to do it before you recieve any feedback which might verify it for you.

I suppose the only proof I can offer you is that I have been doing it for years and enjoy the hell out of it, why would I waste my time on it if it wasn't useful? But then, you don't know who I am, you don't know me at all, so that isn't much help to you, is it? :cheers:

It's not something you have to put faith in, it's a natural process. If you apply to training and try to do it, it will happen. Even if you are skeptical. It's just something you will have to try if your interested. It would take about 2 hours per week to train, and any two hours you would be willing to give up. You will begin having experiences within 2 to 4 weeks that will verify your not wasting your time.

 

[ÞIcarus]

Not sure about the connection with gaming though?

Glad to hear you have experienced it first hand yourself. I was curious if anyone that would read this thread had actually had an OOBE themselves, either spontaneous or not. What are you unsure about? The connection was a natural one for me. It's something that can be thought of as a virtual reality in a way, right there at our fingertips!

 

[Tr0n]

I had an out of penis experience.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

ÞIcarus, can you make a guide or something on this thread to explain what to do?

 

[lePobz]

You don't do anything, just get comfortable and try to detach your mind from your body. Clear your thoughs, ignore and forget your body. Try to physically 'project' your conciousness above you, or away from you... keep that state, then wait for the rush to begin. This is what takes practice - dealing with the states you go through, without freaking out (as freaking out ends the whole show) ... eventually you'll feel yourself rushing through a wind tunnel, your limbs will feel like they're all being electrocuted... and thats where you either snap out of it and return to yourself, or your OOBE begins.

 

[ÞIcarus]

ÞIcarus, can you make a guide or something on this thread to explain what to do?

You mean a guide to having an OOBE, or just a detailed list of the process of what leads up to it and afterwards?

 

[Dekstar]

I've been trying to have LD's and OOBE's for ages now. It's very very difficult. My main problem is remembering the experience. I went through a phase of remembering 1 or 2 dreams a night (not nearly enough), and then it just stopped, and recently I haven't been remembering any.

Also as I've researched this quite thoroughly (also tried a few programs to do with it), I trid the digital watch alarm experiment, where you have a watch that goes off every hour and you look at it twice to see if the time distorts. But even if it was working, I can't remember my dreams in the first place .

I'ma keep practicing though. The game idea sounds really fun too. What are the graphics like? :E

 

[theotherguy]

out of body experiences do not exist. They are just hallucinations.

 

[Solaris]

It's over done.

The brain is very powerful, and it is possible to learn to create a dream conciously. However, it's only a dream and exists in your own head, you cannot share it and interact with others and learn things you didn't already know.

It's often claimed that you can have OBE's and make your soul leave your body and look around and visit anywhere in the world, if that was true it would be pretty damn easy to proove and it would be all over new scientist, which it isn't becuase it's bull.

 

[ÞIcarus]

Good answer lePobz. There are basically 3 major hurdles to the whole process.

First, you have to learn to completely relax your body and focus your mind. Your body must in a sense be a non-entity in your mind. Your focus must be completely withdrawn from it. This is the first hurdle people have to overcome.

The second is fear. People are generally very afraid when things begin to happen to them that they have never experienced. When lePobz talks about eloctrocution, he is referring to a kind of vibration that you feel when an OOBE is about to occur. For some people it can be very rough and distracting, a difficult stage to overcome.

The third hurdle, in my opinion, is adapting to your new environment. Thats a toughy for many people too. Some people have to "learn to walk" all over again, some people can't see clearly at first. It's a process.

 

[Solaris]

I'd like to note that I'd love to be proved wrong, probably more than anything else. I'd rather know such thing as a soul exists than win the lottery.

 

[lePobz]

It's over done.

The brain is very powerful, and it is possible to learn to create a dream conciously. However, it's only a dream and exists in your own head, you cannot share it and interact with others and learn things you didn't already know.

It's often claimed that you can have OBE's and make your soul leave your body and look around and visit anywhere in the world, if that was true it would be pretty damn easy to proove and it would be all over new scientist, which it isn't becuase it's bull.

I'd sign up to this, but there are cases of OOBEs for example of patients during surgery, that could see the procedure, could explain to the doctors afterwards exactly what they did, what instruments they used, etc.

Also scary is near-death experiences that explain the same processes as the mind leaves the body.

I'm not saying it isnt completely hallucinagenic but there's definately more to it than that. Plus nobody really knows for sure, so my mind is definately open on the subject.

 

[ÞIcarus]

out of body experiences do not exist. They are just hallucinations.

You touch on a complex problem. We generally accept terminology that has to do with travelling, like "leaving" the body and "detatching". For the sake of simplicity we usually refer to things like this. There is a very large community of OOBErs within the greater community that feel this is an erroneous perception, that no "travelling" or leaving the body takes place. I subscribe more to this way of thinking.

There was an Occultist, I don't recall his name, but someone asked him if the spirits and demons he conjures are just all in his mind. He responded "Yes! And you have no idea of vast the mind actually is!". Many people get stuck on wether it's anm event that occurs entirely within the mind or is it real, to me and a growing number of OOBErs, the two are not mutually exclusive.

I'm trying to get into detailed discussions of theory. It's tempting though..

@ Solaris, of course your assertion is completely rational, but my experience is otherwise. I "meet up" with fellow OOBErs on a regular basis, our individual experience validates it to me and others. Our experience is all we have, though.

 

[Solaris]

I'd sign up to this, but there are cases of OOBEs for example of patients during surgery, that could see the procedure, could explain to the doctors afterwards exactly what they did, what instruments they used, etc.

They can probably here the doctors while they're unconscious, we don't know much about a deep unconscious state, so it's possible that some part of their mind can hear whats happening and it's turned into a dream.

Also scary is near-death experiences that explain the same processes as the mind leaves the body.

That's just chemicals in the brain, people get NDE's when they go on big spiny astronaut training machines sometimes.

@Bikerous, surely you could proove it though, could you visit my bedroom and tell me what I have in it? What if I show you a picture of a box in my room?

 

[ÞIcarus]

I'd like to note that I'd love to be proved wrong, probably more than anything else. I'd rather know such thing as a soul exists than win the lottery.

Have you tried it?

 

[Solaris]

Have you tried it?

Yes, I started violently shaking and got scared and could never do it again.

 

[ÞIcarus]

Yes, I started violently shaking and got scared and could never do it again.

Was it like a vibrating? Like being electrocuted?

 

[Solaris]

Was it like a vibrating? Like being electrocuted?

I started vibrating alot.

Probably becuase I'd read just that night that that's what one would expect, and I'm quite good at self-hypnosis, so I'm pretty sure I imagined it, although it felt very real.

 

[ÞIcarus]

I started vibrating alot.

Probably becuase I'd read just that night that that's what one would expect, and I'm quite good at self-hypnosis, so I'm pretty sure I imagined it, although it felt very real.

Do not rationalize the experience into a non-experience. It happens to nearly everyone, wether they expect it to come/heard of it or not. People who have never heard of it before in their life and have a spontaneous OOBE experience the same phenomenon. It's a natural functioning of the process. Many people become afraid, some even think they are having a heart attack or dying, and that fear prevents them from moving forward. You just have to let it go and allow it to happen. I was afraid up to the point I decided to just let it happen and observe it, afterwards I was never afraid again and only became excited after the vibrations began because I knew I was almost there.

Why don't you try to progress beyond that? Even if all you are doing is learning how to induce a fun hallucination, it would still be interesting wouldn't it? And you might even find what you are looking for!

 

[Solaris]

Sure, I'll try, but I still formly hold that it's an internal thing.

 

[ÞIcarus]

Sure, I'll try, but I still formly hold that it's an internal thing.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[PvtRyan]

and only became excited after the vibrations began because I knew I was almost there.

This can be quoted nicely out of context

Sounds.. dirty.

But seriously now, your first post makes it seem like you can "share" that OOBE with someone else, which sounds kind of farfetched to me. Do you mean you can walk around in the place someone else created, or do you just try to imagine/project it based on his description he gave you of it?

 

[evil^milk]

This sounds rather nifty. So I'm gonna try this. All I have to do is try to relax right? And then wait till I shake like crazy and then overcome it?

 

[ÞIcarus]

But seriously now, your first post makes it seem like you can "share" that OOBE with someone else, which sounds kind of farfetched to me. Do you mean you can walk around in the place someone else created, or do you just try to imagine/project it based on his description he gave you of it?

Creating an environment yourself and "playing" around with it is where my idea came from, and is alot of fun also. But yes, I'm speaking of shared experiences with more than just myself. And yea, the implications are obvious. Hard for some to swallow, just start with the basic experience and go from there. But to clerify, yes I'm speaking of multiple individuals in a single environment, liek gamers joining a server.

@ evil^milk, lol I suggest you get a book or join a community for help. There is alot of free material out there. Robert Bruce wrote a very helpful "Treatise on OOBE" or something like that, google it it's easy to find and completely free. Just be careful with what you choose to believe. Take what everyone says and measure it against your own experience. What might be true for them might not be true for you.

 

[Solaris]

Truth is universal!

 

[Shakermaker]

Are you guys beta-testing yet?

I'd join if I could do it. The only out-of-body-experience I ever had, was when I was as high as a kite on shrooms. That particular trip featured two aging hippies, a telekinetic chatprogram á la MSN and a threesome. I wouldn't have been able to also play some kind of game at the same time.

 

[Jangle]

I would have a go, but it sounds kind of scary and I'm a wimp.

 

[ÞIcarus]

Truth is universal!

Universal, yes. But harder to come by in an environment where one shapes their own reality, and ones expectations and superstitions become real and manifest.

 

[PvtRyan]

If what you say is true, and you can share these experiences in one 'space' with multiple people. Wouldn't that be very easy to proof to science?

 

[evil^milk]

Are you guys beta-testing yet?

A few minutes ago I tried relaxing but I ended up sleeping, lol. I'm gonna go try it again in a few minutes after I read on it and report what I see.

for anyone interested here's the treatise on astral projection.

edit: I got bored.

 

[ÞIcarus]

If what you say is true, and you can share these experiences in one 'space' with multiple people. Wouldn't that be very easy to proof to science?

I don't see how. Imagine a room at the top of a mountain that only you and I can go to. We can't take pictures, we can't bring anything back with us or leave anything there, all we can do is go into the room and come back. No one else can go, and when we come back all we have is the memory of the room.

In what way can we definitively, scientifically, beyond any doubt prove that we were ever there together? We can both describe similar things, we can both be convinced, but how can we provide scientific evidence?

 

[Solaris]

I don't see how. Imagine a room at the top of a mountain that only you and I can go to. We can't take pictures, we can't bring anything back with us or leave anything there, all we can do is go into the room and come back. No one else can go, and when we come back all we have is the memory of the room.

In what way can we definitively, scientifically, beyond any doubt prove that we were ever there together? We can both describe similar things, we can both be convinced, but how can we provide scientific evidence?

Go in different rooms, a scientist tells one person to tell the other person the number 973, you tell them via the astral plain, other person tells scientist.

 

[theotherguy]

yes, it would be easily to scientifically prove it false by having seperate rooms, and telling the person to go into the second room and read a number while having an out of body experience, if they give you the wrong number, its a hallucination.

I think it is exactley the same thing as WILD.(wake-induced lucid dream)

My very first WILD was exactley like an out of body experience, but I took in enough of my surroundings to conclude I was dreaming, and this made it much more obvious that it was a hallucination.

However I will give you that they do seem very very real...but all you have to do is reality check and verify details and it becomes easy to notice that it is not real.

 

[ÞIcarus]

Go in different rooms, a scientist tells one person to tell the other person the number 973, you tell them via the astral plain, other person tells scientist.

They have done similar studies. Have you researched some of the initial studies the American military and intelligence agencies conducted before they instituted the Stargate program, and during it's run? The german military under Hitler also did alot of experimenting with this type of thing with some incredible results, as well as the Stanford Research Institute and so on.

These days mainstream science is for the most part not involved. You have scientists and physicists out there like Russell Targ who are always experimenting, but they don't get a lot of attention from the mainstream. People have this idea that if there was ever a successful experiment it would be all over the place and everyone would know and everything would be proven, but there are a ton of successful experiments out there that generated some interest at the time and then fell out of media circulation and quickly passed into non-remembrance.

However I will give you that they do seem very very real...but all you have to do is reality check and verify details and it becomes easy to notice that it is not real.

But what do you mean by not real? I would not argue with you that a WILD is a type of OOBE, I would agree. The point is not that OOBEs are something different than dreams, but rather dreams are much more than what we think. A WILD is very much like an OOBE, the only difference is the amount of conscious control over the experience.