People Complaining About HL2's Story

[wonkers]

I think I can refine my thoughts. The game is Gorden the weapon. He is only a hero in the sense that he's in the right place at the right time. Breen is right. He isn't a super duper hero. Just the guy that fits. Like chess every peice has the potential to make it to the end and be the most important. Even if that peice is a pawn.

The g-man is playing chess and we won't know why. No real point in guessing. The story is just to open to be entirely sure what the point is. That's what makes it the perfect game story.

 

[burner69]

That sounds to me like a jean claude van damme movie - oooo dear

 

[mdpeaco]

Most games use cutscenes to make sure it has a story so you can't knock it, HL2 IS a story, not just an "OMG IT MOVES IT MUST DIE!" game.

 

[burner69]

And a lot of it is "it moves, it dies".
Still a great game, but not a leap forward in plot

 

[lanzemurdok]

I don't get it.. i really don't

"It was fun, but i was disappointed"

I thought the point of the game was to HAVE FUN and enjoy it... if you want a story go watch a movie.

 

[Neutrino]

not just an "OMG IT MOVES IT MUST DIE!" game.

That's exactly what it is quite a bit of the time.

I don't get it.. i really don't

"It was fun, but i was disappointed"

I thought the point of the game was to HAVE FUN and enjoy it...

What don't you understand? I mean it was entertaining but I thought it could have been better. Thus it was fun but I was dissapointed in it as well. Got it?

if you want a story go watch a movie.

Yes, some great advice there.

Sorry to tell you, but this isn't the age of pacman anymore. If you thought the game was perfect or whatever, that's great. I didn't think so and that's my opinion. Don't knock it.

 

[burner69]

I don't get it.. i really don't

"It was fun, but i was disappointed"

I thought the point of the game was to HAVE FUN and enjoy it... if you want a story go watch a movie.

It would have been more fun if a plot was better woven into it. No reason why we shouldn't have fun... and a plot.

I don't like it how people who make even slightly negative comments about HL2 get told they shouldn't be playing it, they're totally wrong; it's an opinion on how the game cud be improved. Sheesh.

 

[Spartan]

Most games use cutscenes to make sure it has a story so you can't knock it, HL2 IS a story, not just an "OMG IT MOVES IT MUST DIE!" game.

Wait... games that use cutscenes aren't real stories, only Half-Life 2 is? Huh?

 

[burner69]

I think he meant the GAMEPLAY is the story.

 

[taliswolf]

Registered just to say I agree completely with the Original Post. I think you get out of HL2 what you put in; when I finished it I felt like I had just put down a great book.

If you played the game expecting to point and shoot, that's inevitably what you'll take away. If you approached it intending to get emotionally involved, the story will engross you a whole lot more.

I think the Half-Life series is something unique. Compare with Halo, or other FPSs, where you're essentially being told the story - sure, you control the movement between cutscenes, but essentially it's a long movie. In Half-Life 2, you are the character. You're not told the story; it's happening around you: you're part of it. There's nothing to distance you. The direct involvement adds emotional investment, and that's the reason the end hit pretty hard.

 

[Ghost Freeman]

Wow. None of you even take the time to explore the enviroments. Nearly everything about the Combine or Dr. Breen can be explained there.

None of you even take time to conclude player emotion either, that makes up quite a bit of story as well.

And maybe we're all forgetting that maybe this is how Valve likes to tell stories, they want you to conclude your own answer. Well, looks like the lot of you like to be spoon-fed instead of thinking for yourself. Guess you would all like the gentle confines of City 17 after all.

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

Noone is denying that.

The point is - after the begining there really isn't that much to experience in terms of story/characters.

I loved meeting the doc and Alyx for the first time, looking around the lab, seeing the pet headcrab (which made me laugh out loud), getting the suit, the whole teleporter scene.

The train station, complete with the 'Big Brother' menacing feel was also excellent , as was meeting Dog.

These were the parts that made Hl2 stand out (not the average combat or easy difficulty) Unfortunately, they are few and far between.

man you must really not like half life 2. you are always bashing it for some reason or another. go play far cry and halo2 since it is so disappointing.

 

[burner69]

Registered just to say I agree completely with the Original Post. I think you get out of HL2 what you put in; when I finished it I felt like I had just put down a great book.

I think the Half-Life series is something unique. Compare with Halo, or other FPSs, where you're essentially being told the story - sure, you control the movement between cutscenes, but essentially it's a long movie. In Half-Life 2, you are the character. You're not told the story; it's happening around you: you're part of it. There's nothing to distance you. The direct involvement adds emotional investment, and that's the reason the end hit pretty hard.

Well said, and in doing what it did advanced the method of delivering the plot in some respects. but **I believe** it did not fully complete its NPC's plot. it concentrated on the wider story, not on that of the personal ground level.
My opinion

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

Wow. None of you even take the time to explore the enviroments. Nearly everything about the Combine or Dr. Breen can be explained there.

None of you even take time to conclude player emotion either, that makes up quite a bit of story as well.

And maybe we're all forgetting that maybe this is how Valve likes to tell stories, they want you to conclude your own answer. Well, looks like the lot of you like to be spoon-fed.

well said. i agree with you, people are so brain-dead from watching endless movies and TV where stuff is just THROWN at you. it's like comparing friends and Seinfeld. the idiots who can't understand the subtleties of Seinfeld watch Friends.

"uhh, seinfeld just isnt funny dude, friends is so funny cuz joey is so stupid! lOL i lvoe that hsow" --Friends fan

 

[[46] pushit [2]]

duplicate post, sorry.

 

[burner69]

man you must really not like half life 2. you are always bashing it for some reason or another. go play far cry and halo2 since it is so disappointing.

Jesus, we all LOVED THE GAME. I'm pretty sure that's the consensus. I bloody did.

But some of us think it cud be done better.

OK, so we learn more about the combine and breen from looking at things. I sat and listened to every TV, wandered around pretty much every room and looked at things to pick up on the story.

Breen and Combine are a part of the primary plot.
What about the other characters? I just felt I could have been shown more, perhaps I could have been "spoonfed" a bit about Alyx's past in a letter to her dad in the lab. Or overhearing a conversation after an important scene to let me know about Kleiner's fear of the combine.

Something.

And I'm still sticking to my view that certain elements were jumped into rather strangely. Particularly in getting into the final area.

 

[burner69]

well said. i agree with you, people are so brain-dead from watching endless movies and TV where stuff is just THROWN at you. it's like comparing friends and Seinfeld. the idiots who can't understand the subtleties of Seinfeld watch Friends.

So I'm stupid because I want to learn about the dynamics of the NPCs?

 

[Neutrino]

Wow. None of you even take the time to explore the enviroments. Nearly everything about the Combine or Dr. Breen can be explained there.

None of you even take time to conclude player emotion either, that makes up quite a bit of story as well.

And maybe we're all forgetting that maybe this is how Valve likes to tell stories, they want you to conclude your own answer. Well, looks like the lot of you like to be spoon-fed instead of thinking for yourself. Guess you would all like the gentle confines of City 17 after all.

Believe me, I do all that. I always take a long time to finish games because of the amount of time I spend exploring. For example, in Doom 3 I read every last e-mail and watched every last Video. I enjoy getting involved in the world.

Don't assume I like mindless games just because I didn't like the way HL2 did it's story. Christ, I can't believe people here. If you mention one single criticism for the game based on an opinion you get bashed to hell for it and called everything from stupid to mindless. Give me a ****ing break, it's my and others' damn opinions. Argue with that opinion all you want but attacking the person with the opinion is just pointless and rude.

 

[Ghost Freeman]

You're right, I shouldn't have gone that far.

 

[Spartan]

well said. i agree with you, people are so brain-dead from watching endless movies and TV where stuff is just THROWN at you. it's like comparing friends and Seinfeld. the idiots who can't understand the subtleties of Seinfeld watch Friends.

"uhh, seinfeld just isnt funny dude, friends is so funny cuz joey is so stupid! lOL i lvoe that hsow" --Friends fan

Anyone who thinks that HL2 is the epitome of intelligent and clever storytelling is braindead.

 

[Neutrino]

You're right, I shouldn't have gone that far.

Sorry, I didn't mean to really pick on you. I was more referring to some other people's comments here like [46] pushit [2]'s.

 

[Warbie]

All this spoon fed stuff is complete rubbish. A few people on this forum are acting as if HL2 is the 'intelligent gamers' choice. Good game it certainly is, clever - not particularly.

Some are happy with the way the story has been portrayed, others aren't. There's no wrong or right in this, and it certianly isn't a case of the clever 'getting i't and the dumber ones not. (Personally - i'm warming to it after repeated play)

Overall I think the game is fantastic.

And lets not talk about subtleties in reference to American comedies please

 

[ViolenceJack]

Pgph 1: I understand all of that, why I went there in the sequence of the game and all that but the point is--as is more relevant to pgph 2--
No I don't expect them to be "exactly the same" but they don't feel like they're on the same planet!
I mean, the palette and visual style changes completely between each area, without being at all gradual, it's just like, go into a tunnel which happens to be a loading area and woah, everything is COMPLETELY different and bears no resemblance (other than how it is rendered by the engine) to the rest. Well, the canals sort of achieved it, gradually moving in...but then they got a bit funky too. The coast and bridge were the parts that really just visually threw me for a loop. They bore no resemblance at all to the City, and I don't just mean that the buildings are less common and different. It did not feel like the same world.

Having the coastal area feeling totally different to the city should be a good thing. I mean think of some guy who has lived in a city for half his life and never seen the coast then moves on to the other it would seem like a totally different world to him. Same goes for if you do it the other way round. The only visual thing i really found major different was the time cycle the way it got darker then lighter and repeated. Unless this is what your going on about because it was abit sudden but i thought it was cool it would be hard to make it so it had a proper day night cycle that changed over time not which area. That would break the story though, its ment to take place over 3 days i think and thats not gonner work because you could go afk and 5 days pass and then it wouldnt fit. Also you would get nit pickers saying how does gordon stay awake for 5 days.

Really though its just a job and in the game everyone seems to know what the hell is going but you, gordon. I mean you seem to actually be just some robot or somin everyone wants to hire and you ask no questions hence the reason why you dont say anything. The G-Man hires you and City-17 is officially your first job or at least the first we know of and then he goes on about having lots of other clients but he aint gonner give you a choice and hes gonner give you a job. One funny thing though is Breen tries to hire you and mentions your contract is available to the highest bidder. Maybe Gordon isnt human but that would make Alyx pretty damn sick. Its like that programme. Quantum leap with the guy just jumping through space and time sorting out peoples lives. Maybe gabe liked that programme and made an elaborate games based on it but instead of sorting lives he sorts worlds.

 

[Warbie]

All this spoon fed stuff is complete rubbish. A few people on this forum are acting as if HL2 is the 'intelligent gamers' choice. Good game it certainly is, clever - not particularly.

Some are happy with the way the story has been portrayed, others aren't. There's no wrong or right in this, and it certianly isn't a case of the clever gamers 'getting it' and the dumber ones not. (Personally - i'm warming to it after repeated play)

Overall I think the game is fantastic.

And lets not talk about subtleties in reference to American comedies please

 

[mega maniac]

You know what, this isnt helping things. Personally i truely beleive that the story is one of the best ive seen and it has involved me as a player more than anything. I loved it from start to end.

The GAMEis liniear, but the wtoryline quite the opposite. To me there is as much diersity in the script as in LOTR. Character emotions are quite clearly displayed by the face mapping when they are talking. They dont need to say things to display emotion, you dont need a cutscene because its all already done.

But as i said, this is going nowhere, round and round and nowhere inbetween. So im just gona have to leave it now, despite my disagreements with you.

Kapish

 

[Warbie]

man you must really not like half life 2. you are always bashing it for some reason or another. go play far cry and halo2 since it is so disappointing.

What rubbish.

I think HL2 is a great game - and have only 'bashed' it in certain areas. Some of which don't really bother me any more.

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

this is out of topic but what level is tenements...u guys are saying there is alot of stuff to look at there. i just want to go and look around

 

[Raziaar]

Some small story bits I would have liked explained. Warning, end game spoilers, so don't read unless you beat the game.

Spoiler

What determined whether the people in those holding tube things that moved around went through the execution line, or the progressive line? Were they sorting the mallable from purely hostile people out? Also, what were those skeleton looking things? Were those the hulks of what used to be the people that were transported? Some of them are screaming, and others are skulking around doing dirty work it looks like. They are so thin its almost like they are skeletons.

I wish there was more expounded on the story myself, both what happened after black mesa, and what was all going on in the new city 17 world. I took the game very slow, explored alot, but wasn't satisfied at the story bits they gave us. I will say though, I absolutely loved the game, and will not see anything wrong with it. It has a story, its just told differently, and I wont hold it against it. I got HL2 for the engine, not for the singleplayer story.

 

[mega maniac]

Some small story bits I would have liked explained. Warning, end game spoilers, so don't read unless you beat the game.

Spoiler

What determined whether the people in those holding tube things that moved around went through the execution line, or the progressive line? Were they sorting the mallable from purely hostile people out? Also, what were those skeleton looking things? Were those the hulks of what used to be the people that were transported? Some of them are screaming, and others are skulking around doing dirty work it looks like. They are so thin its almost like they are skeletons.

I wish there was more expounded on the story myself, both what happened after black mesa, and what was all going on in the new city 17 world. I took the game very slow, explored alot, but wasn't satisfied at the story bits they gave us. I will say though, I absolutely loved the game, and will not see anything wrong with it. It has a story, its just told differently, and I wont hold it against it. I got HL2 for the engine, not for the singleplayer story.

Spoiler

They are breens 'experiments' and if you noticed the wall chart of the ape-man-combine they look like the guy in the combine armour. Meaning these people are the mindless humans breen wants to turn the human race into

 

[ViolenceJack]

Some small story bits I would have liked explained. Warning, end game spoilers, so don't read unless you beat the game.

Spoiler

What determined whether the people in those holding tube things that moved around went through the execution line, or the progressive line? Were they sorting the mallable from purely hostile people out? Also, what were those skeleton looking things? Were those the hulks of what used to be the people that were transported? Some of them are screaming, and others are skulking around doing dirty work it looks like. They are so thin its almost like they are skeletons.

I wish there was more expounded on the story myself, both what happened after black mesa, and what was all going on in the new city 17 world. I took the game very slow, explored alot, but wasn't satisfied at the story bits they gave us. I will say though, I absolutely loved the game, and will not see anything wrong with it. It has a story, its just told differently, and I wont hold it against it. I got HL2 for the engine, not for the singleplayer story.

I think I heard some one say that the raising the bar book says that the combine are basicly a race of a mish mash of other races built to what they are. Maybe like the borg in Star Trek.

Spoiler

to join you in the dark so to speak. There were alot of holes in the end part of the game. There were those weird tank things which were like mini striders with alot smaller legs. I mean what were they, they were on some sort of production line but thats all you saw of them. They must be on some follow up game.

There is a paper cutting board in Eli's lab which mentions some stuff that has happened while you have been away. Eli also comments on it as well saying that Breen negotiated a surrender with the combine and the combine loved him for it and then gave him power so he kind of controls alot of stuff including City 17. There is an NPC in train station that mentions Breen had been at another city, City 14.

 

[AmishSlayer]

well said. i agree with you, people are so brain-dead from watching endless movies and TV where stuff is just THROWN at you. it's like comparing friends and Seinfeld. the idiots who can't understand the subtleties of Seinfeld watch Friends.

"uhh, seinfeld just isnt funny dude, friends is so funny cuz joey is so stupid! lOL i lvoe that hsow" --Friends fan

I love Seinfeld...but its humor is not subtle...not the best example. Sienfeld is funny because it bases itself entirely on the smallest things that affect us all.

 

[Zio]

Ok I read through ever post on here, and I'm loving the story more and more. I'm gonna do my post, I'll try ot make it linear, but its gonna jump around a lot. I do love this story for how open ended it is. It keeps me more interested b/c its up to me to figure out what happened

Spoiler

I don't think that the resistence knew Gordan was coming. I think Barney, who is a spy planted inside the combine, just happens to notice Gordan, and gets it so he's pulled inside that torture chamber type deal. Everyone that knows Gordan is surprised to see him. Nor did Breen, Breen only knew you were there cuz you came into his office, and he was alarmed to find you.
I don't think it was 10 years, but more like 20. There's a picture of Eli and his family; A wife and Alex. His wife died in Black Mesa as a result of the incident. Alex is a baby and now she appears to be in her early mid 20s.
There are no kids throughout the entire game. The humans can't reproduce...if i remember correctly, but if it was 10 years, there'd still be kids 10 years old and over.
Barney tells you to get to Kleiner's b/c you'd be safe there, and he has your HEV suit incase you ever returned. It is then thought you'd be safer at Eli's Lab b/c you are not only very good with a gun, but you are smart, and mite be able to help on experiments there. Something goes wrong, and you gotta get there on your own.
I love the Canals, I love driving the boat, I loved every minute of that level. Remember, Eli's lab was just off the Canals. How does the Combine know where it is... cough mossman cough

Ravenholm seems a little outta place, but here's my take. First off it's night time. If you add light, it would resemble City 17. The Head Crab Missiles, and the fact there is no life shows what lengths the Combine is willing to go to keep order, and hings under their control.
The beach makes sense, most of the buildings left standing are old fashion, and anythign else is Combine made.
Nova Prospekt is also on the Beach, which is where you need to go to rescue Eli, Hence why your out there.
Alyx took a different route since she knew Ravenholm is not a good place, but figured Gordan could survive it with Dog... who decided not to join you.
At the end of Entanglement, Alyx doesn't know where Judith took Eli... so she goes back to Kleiners Lab adn takes you with her.
You find out theres a huge resistence underway, since the slow teleport (Hint as to why Gordan was gone for so long). The resistence decided it was time to attack because Nova Prospekt was destroyed thanks to Gordon, and took it as a sign.
Now if one man took down an entire military complex, wouldn't that make him some sort of legend?
But how did the recognize Gordon? How would anyone who's never seen Gordon recognize him immediately? "Hey you're Freeman" How on Earth would they recognize this average guy?
Thinking... Thinking... Thinking...
Could it be the bright Orange HEV suit? Would that give it away? Only one person in the entire game has it.
The Citadel takes your weapons, and uses its lazer to destroy all your weapons, but your suit and gravity gun absorb it. Hence the increase power in both of them.
I don't know how this works... but then again how does Teleportation work?
And then we have the ending... I can only give so much, but here's my theory.
To Gordon the events in Half Life and Half Life 2 happen directly after the other, as soon as Gordon enters the teleporter at the end of HL he's transported to the train, and Gman talks to him again. He may feel some time difference.
So this is his first job for the gman. But could this all jsut be a "job" Notice he starts as the Black Mesa leftovers are just getting teleportation to work, and Gman takes him away just as his job is finished? Could this jsut have been his job, and HL3 will take place in some other Time in the future..or past?

I'm just throwing more stuff out there, I loved the story, and love the ending... but I've always been a fan of leaving things up to the reader, to figure things out on your own, and never get any real closure but your own. I am very well pleased, sure i would have like to know more, But I'm still very happy with the ending and cant wait for HL3

 

[Red]

Ok I read through ever post on here, and I'm loving the story more and more. I'm gonna do my post, I'll try ot make it linear, but its gonna jump around a lot. I do love this story for how open ended it is. It keeps me more interested b/c its up to me to figure out what happened

Spoiler

I don't think that the resistence knew Gordan was coming. I think Barney, who is a spy planted inside the combine, just happens to notice Gordan, and gets it so he's pulled inside that torture chamber type deal. Everyone that knows Gordan is surprised to see him. Nor did Breen, Breen only knew you were there cuz you came into his office, and he was alarmed to find you.
I don't think it was 10 years, but more like 20. There's a picture of Eli and his family; A wife and Alex. His wife died in Black Mesa as a result of the incident. Alex is a baby and now she appears to be in her early mid 20s.
There are no kids throughout the entire game. The humans can't reproduce...if i remember correctly, but if it was 10 years, there'd still be kids 10 years old and over.
Barney tells you to get to Kleiner's b/c you'd be safe there, and he has your HEV suit incase you ever returned. It is then thought you'd be safer at Eli's Lab b/c you are not only very good with a gun, but you are smart, and mite be able to help on experiments there. Something goes wrong, and you gotta get there on your own.
I love the Canals, I love driving the boat, I loved every minute of that level. Remember, Eli's lab was just off the Canals. How does the Combine know where it is... cough mossman cough

Ravenholm seems a little outta place, but here's my take. First off it's night time. If you add light, it would resemble City 17. The Head Crab Missiles, and the fact there is no life shows what lengths the Combine is willing to go to keep order, and hings under their control.
The beach makes sense, most of the buildings left standing are old fashion, and anythign else is Combine made.
Nova Prospekt is also on the Beach, which is where you need to go to rescue Eli, Hence why your out there.
Alyx took a different route since she knew Ravenholm is not a good place, but figured Gordan could survive it with Dog... who decided not to join you.
At the end of Entanglement, Alyx doesn't know where Judith took Eli... so she goes back to Kleiners Lab adn takes you with her.
You find out theres a huge resistence underway, since the slow teleport (Hint as to why Gordan was gone for so long). The resistence decided it was time to attack because Nova Prospekt was destroyed thanks to Gordon, and took it as a sign.
Now if one man took down an entire military complex, wouldn't that make him some sort of legend?
But how did the recognize Gordon? How would anyone who's never seen Gordon recognize him immediately? "Hey you're Freeman" How on Earth would they recognize this average guy?
Thinking... Thinking... Thinking...
Could it be the bright Orange HEV suit? Would that give it away? Only one person in the entire game has it.
The Citadel takes your weapons, and uses its lazer to destroy all your weapons, but your suit and gravity gun absorb it. Hence the increase power in both of them.
I don't know how this works... but then again how does Teleportation work?
And then we have the ending... I can only give so much, but here's my theory.
To Gordon the events in Half Life and Half Life 2 happen directly after the other, as soon as Gordon enters the teleporter at the end of HL he's transported to the train, and Gman talks to him again. He may feel some time difference.
So this is his first job for the gman. But could this all jsut be a "job" Notice he starts as the Black Mesa leftovers are just getting teleportation to work, and Gman takes him away just as his job is finished? Could this jsut have been his job, and HL3 will take place in some other Time in the future..or past?

I'm just throwing more stuff out there, I loved the story, and love the ending... but I've always been a fan of leaving things up to the reader, to figure things out on your own, and never get any real closure but your own. I am very well pleased, sure i would have like to know more, But I'm still very happy with the ending and cant wait for HL3

For a second there I thought I was back on my ZX Spectrum ......

 

[Messermeier]

phew...interesting thread.

it is true that at times you dont know exactly why you are doing what you are doing. that feeling is appealing and disappointing at the same time, you desperately want to know whats going on, yet the not-knowing is, yes, fun - in other games you can predict whats going to happen when you're half way through.
then, as soon as the feeling is gone, the game really becomes nothing but running and shooting. hl2 is going to be the very first game in quite a long time i am going to play twice or even more often.


even after I finished it the game lives on in my head, especially the final moments of it. that is what is great about it. -> spoiler

Spoiler

i was outright shocked when i saw that explosion forming. alyx covered her face, for fractions of a seconds i recalled the words of breen about the wholy city being destroyed if i blew up his capsule. then the explosion froze and i was like "wtf?" the fireball clearly looks like the core of a nuclear explosion. no good.

suddenly i had plenty of time for thinking about what just happened. did i just kill alyx? the resistance? eli barney kleiner lamarr? everyone in the city? the thought of it freaks me out. then the gman shows up and locks me into a dark room..wondering..is there anything that can be done to stop the explosion?

this is something that will live on until hl3 or an expansion is released. not like most other games, which you play, forget, and maybe don't even bother to uninstall


ah...and..


i see some wonder why eli knows gordon. i think i know. when you first meet him in in person at BME, he says something like "i haven't seen you since i sent you to the surface for help".
do you remember the black scientist from HL1, right after the accident, in the room where you first see the headcrabs (you get there right after the used the first elevator)? standing near another wounded scientist? the one who uses the first retina scanner for you? he indeed does tell you to go to the surface and get help. i thinks thats him.
don't know if someone already said this, but i cant read as fast as you post in this thread..you guys are fast

 

[Plankhead]

I'm not usually the kind of person who enjoys replaying a game, though. It's too bad that I might not get the whole story. Unless someone can compile all the random "missable" story elements for lazy people like me.

 

[Spartan]

this is something that will live on until hl3 or an expansion is released. not like most other games, which you play, forget, and maybe don't even bother to uninstall

HL2 isn't that special. There are plenty of games that cause the same reaction.

 

[Jiffra]

I liken Half Life 2's story to a good David Lynch film. You either get it or you don't. To some, his films are nothing more than weird and illogical mish-mashes of scenes bewilderingly strung together. To others it's like a masterwork artistic painting (the entire game world of Half Life 2 being that painting) that leaves things for the viewer (or in this case the player) to interpret and construct for himself a coherent whole. Some people enjoy this sort of thing, and some simply don't.

 

[FangsFirst]

Im not sure, obviously they hadnt anywhere near perfected the technology. I mean fist off the plug falls out, then your teleport goes haywire. Also i think alot of the teleporting could be controlled by the g-man, perhaps he wanted you to go to the places you did during the first teleport. I cant base that on fact atall, just an afterthought.

Let's be serious for a moment.
The plug fell out? Am I going to stay and invent the super duper plug that never falls out??
and my teleport screwed up because of lamarr. Am I going to stay and create an "Anti-headcrab" shield? Don't be silly

All the time you are with alyx and eli you are doing something. As its been said if you were sitting down having a pint you may well discuss such things. But 10 years is a long time and alot to talk about, so the objective of helipng the resistance is the more improtant one that "hey buddy whats up, say give me a run down of the past 10 years. Which essentially the g-man tells you you were in a coma for.

But that's not what I mean. If this is a saviour or amazing guy, you're going to be interested in their life. That's why we have things like People magazine and auto and regular biographies. People are interested in the lives of the famous, and if Gordon is important, either they'd be angry or worried that he was gone all that time. (either thinking he hid deliberately or that he was in trouble).
I guess we just have totally different interactions with people.

i had forgotten until somone posted that you are scanned and this takes a little while. Perhaps they know you are there then, i mean if they are searching for unidentified civilians. Surprise comes when you meet somone with no previous knowledge they will be there, even 30 seconds, because as soon as someone says hey godons back, you will be surprised then. not later.

So you proved my point...although one just disagreeing about Barney's reason for being there. You admit here that they probably didn't know I was coming in any greater detail than that fact alone (that I WAS).
Hence my belief that Barney was not there orchestrating my escape, but merely acting as part of the railroad, pulling people out as they get off the train to move into the resistance.

I argueing that that speculation is exactly what we are meant to do, because the story is unfinished. When i read a book i speculae right till the last couple of chapters when things are unravled and i am usually pleasently suprised.

I'm not saying there's anything WRONG with speculation, simply that you cannot argue the presence of a story based on what you have made up. If I watched "A New Hope" and speculated that Han Solo and Luke were brothers or something, that would not be evidence of a story. You have to use what's THERE. There's evidence of a story in that Luke blows up the Death Star, or that Luke goes from farmboy to Jedi-in-training, etc etc. The evidence of the story is what HAPPENS, not what "could happen" or "may have happened"
there's nothing wrong with making those guesses, but they are not evidence of a story--so all I'm saying is don't say "There's a story because maybe the G-Man is Gordon from the future!"
Yes that may be true and it's fascinating and fun to think and so on and so forth, but that's not part of the story, it's something you've invented to fill gaps.

i just argue my beleifof the game, as you will

But I don't tell people they're "stupid" or "not thinking" simply for not seeing a story as a lot of people here are doing. I say I don't see one and defend that belief. I don't say "You are dumb for thinking there's a story"--I call people jerks for calling other people dumb, sure. But that's a different train of thought (one that is arguably supportable, but let's not get into that)

Certain parts of the city are controlled by the combine those that arnt turn into hunting ground for zombies, [...]

Well yes I don't think you got what I meant at all, which could easily be my fault for not explaining clearly enough or something.
I'm not saying I found any area flawed in and of itself. I liked each one for its nature. But I didn't feel like Ravenholme fit in the world of City 17, because I'd wandered from Orwell's 1984 into a horror movie, which was just an absolute shock and ruined the mood for me. Then all of a sudden I was in a ghostly, ancient-seeming coastline that was barren and lacking in any relation to a cluster**** horror movie OR a totalitarian state. Do you see what I'm saying?
Obviously you can disagree, but can you at least understand what I mean?

Kleiner and eli are both there, i remembered them as soon as i heard there names, hang on.
From gamespot
"Some former Black Mesa scientists are back, the scientist featured in the gameplay video (and pictured to the left) is referred to as 'Dr. Kleiner,' and he could very well be Dr. Alex Kleiner, who was Gordon's former professor at MIT and the guy who got Gordon his job in Black Mesa in the first place (this is all referred to in the employment letter at the beginning of the original Half-Life manual). "

Well sure, it's from the manual, but I haven't even looked at the manual since 98 or 99. Of course, this means that your arguments about them not being close get kind of fuzzy. This guy was my teacher, got me my job and worked with me--but still doesn't give a shit about where I've been for ten years? That's pretty weird.

thats kleiner i cant find anything on eli, but im semi sure he was there, but he may have just been another [escapee].

Yeah but the point is they weren't IN Half Life, regardless of whether they were referred to. Yeah, sure, there was a reference or so to "the administrator" and maybe I kind of remember some scientist sending me for help, but he sure didn't look like Eli in HL2 (yes, because of technological limits, but that's part of the problem, there was an enormous skip in both tech AND character dynamism)

you got the damn veichals because the terrain was like that, you didnt get the terrain because of the veichals. One of them says something like "Your gona need this, its a long way and the water is hazerdous at points" or along those lines.

You're not thinking the same way. I'm saying I got the terrain in the game, that the DEVELOPERS said "let's put in really long driving parts so there's a reason for vehicles" which caused the random environmental changes that I referred to before as bothersome. I'm not saying that they didn't make sense in "Game logic"--that's not ANY of what I'm talking about. I know that I was sent to Eli because they told me to go and to "help with something or other" (which no one seems to know the identity of) and that I went through Ravenholme because of the rockslide, etc etc, but it didn't feel like the game was written with a story that said that--it felt like the story was fitted to these random otherwise unconnected environments, loosely connected by vague dialogue, with lots of chasing and running inserted so that you could end up going through them all.

The original was 99% in one building, if this had all been in one building and it had been escape the prison, it would have been an almost direct copy. Having such a big world means you dont need to go back to the same areas, and i know you said you hated halo2, but that got majorly ritisized to epeating areas.

More like 80% (there was a fair amount of outdoors and the building changed later on, plus Xen)...but that's semantics.
And I don't mean ala Blood 2 or anything, going back through later in the game, like when we come back to the city at the end, going through the same section--I mean like puzzles that involved going between multiple loading zones to solve. That helped to create the illusion the levels did in fact relate to each other (see: tentacle boss thing in HL--like 3 loading zones to kill it)

I cant disagree more.

Well that's good, and I can respect that, but no one seems willing to respect my point of view and seems far more willing to tell me that my opinion makes me "stupid"

You dont need to like it to take the point, its the same in uhh, scream, you dont see the killer, well kinda the same. What i mean is itsa story telling technique and would be ruined by just having him talk.

LOL
I hate Scream too
But point being, I know what the intention was with him not talking (it would be more like it was "him" and not "you" playing) but it felt wrong. It was like everyone acted like he USED to talk like a normal human being but for days and days straight he doesn't even talk to himself! That's really odd!

When she said that mossman hates you really i felt like she wasnt being serious atall, like really she hates mossman and wants gordan to hateher so makes up a petty lie.

I faintly recall there was something Mossman said that proved her right. Maybe I don't recall for certain though. It seemed indicative of her backhanded nature and didn't surprise me at all to hear though.

I was taken aback in the game by how alyx wasnt flirting so much. I expected that she was going to be instantly all over me because of my boyinh good looks and my bright orange hazard suit. But she seemed to me far more interested in dog. It wasnt till the final scenes that she seemd to show any feeling to me (gordon)

Ohhh no, it was there from the first time she sees you, or at LEAST the second. It was more subtle, but it was there.

Every bit of dialogue that i listened to gave me clues about the story, i cant think of one that wasnt. Alyx's rant about mossman was a character building one. The dialogue was always character building or story building.

I don't feel that way at all. Blathering on and on about the teleportation scene felt longest. I felt like I was stuck in a "living cutscene" as they made jokes about the cat and tried to get the teleport working--exactly like I felt in the first HL around the experiment. Like I was an unnecessary audience they were pretending was more important than I was (so they make me push a cart holding a crystal--which could have been done with robotics--or plug in a cable--which probably wouldn't have just popped out)

The chart looked to me like like one of the zombies you see at the end with a combine gas mask on. It struck me as, hey thats what im fighting, these soldiers arnt willing, they are forced into attacking me. I think that was what was already happening not what could.

Yes--but again, that's what you "think." We know next to nothing about what the combine soldiers are--period. Thus you can speculate all you want, that's awesome, that's fantastic. But don't portray it as factual unless you can give me hard evidence.

Yes he is, obviously trying to save his skin, but he was also telling the truth about the exploson it could cause. And it did.

Yes, but some have suggested that maybe the portal would suck up the explosion, for instance, or he could have been lying about the extent of the damage. Just an explosion happening (as we see) doesn't mean it will reach as far as he claims...

In 1 you escaped black mesa, and the gman contols the ending, in 2 you have just leveled the citadel, and the gman controls the ending. Its a very simmilar ending in many reguards. Your gona get an explanation, you just have to wait. Drnk guinnis.

DID I destroy the citadel? I don't know because they stopped halfway through the explosion. Maybe it got sucked into the portal. Maybe it only destroyed the local vicinity and only set the citadel back a tiny bit. Do you see what I mean? they stopped halfway through the ending of even the chapter.
They may as well have written, "And then the citadel explo--The end."

do you include me in that?

I don't recall you saying anything like that, no. but my memory involves pages and pages and pages of response now.

 

[FangsFirst]

I felt like I was watching an 80s TV sci-fi movie, because apart from saying: "right gordon?" or "yes gordon" or plugging a plug in, during the plot enhancing scenes I may as well not have been there. A cut scene I could move around in? Yeah, pretty much.

Burner, you've put into words exactly how I felt about the "living cutscenes"
they were 8 million times more brief in the original HL, and consisted of dialogue more believable for me not to expect to respond to.
EG:
"Gordon, you need to wear your suit and push the thingy."
"He's not dumb."
"shut up, I'm doing what I'm supposed to, blah blah blah"
Those two interacted with each other.
Later most plot points were revealed by listening to outside communication, not people talking AT me (which is a clear sign of lack of communication).
If I had gone to all of those places and Eli had talked to Kleiner about blah blah blah about the plot, it would have felt a lot more natural to recieve things from it, and not so dumb that I stand there like a mute idiot (for chrissakes, I'm a ****ing MIT graduate and they're discussing my life's work--but all I do is stand there as they blather on at me?!)

do you remember the black scientist from HL1, right after the accident, in the room where you first see the headcrabs (you get there right after the used the first elevator)? standing near another wounded scientist? the one who uses the first retina scanner for you? he indeed does tell you to go to the surface and get help. i thinks thats him.

I DO faintly remember that, remembered it when he said that even. But he looks nothing like that guy so I couldn't REALLY connect it. That's what I mean; because they skipped around on EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING--time, place, characters, and technology (the game engine I mean) it felt totally disconnected from HL. Sure he mentions that and it could have been him, but that sounds like retroactive status of that character. He was never identified before and I doubt he was intended to be, but much like everyone mentioning Black Mesa and your past exploits in vague terms, it feels like some desparate way to say "No, no, I SWEAR, this is a sequel to half-life, even though it looks and feels NOTHING like Half-Life."

Having the coastal area feeling totally different to the city should be a good thing. I mean think of some guy who has lived in a city for half his life and never seen the coast then moves on to the other it would seem like a totally different world to him. Same goes for if you do it the other way round.

Unless this is what your going on about because it was abit sudden but i thought it was cool it would be hard to make it so it had a proper day night cycle that changed over time not which area. That would break the story though, its ment to take place over 3 days i think and thats not gonner work because you could go afk and 5 days pass and then it wouldnt fit. Also you would get nit pickers saying how does gordon stay awake for 5 days.

I wouldn't have even thought about him staying awake
But that is what bothered me about Ravenholme. It was afternoon right before, definitely, but then suddenly it was friggin midnight...then I wandered out and it was like the middle of the morning!
It didn't feel at all temporally connected and felt the most "inserted."
Oh and I DO expect the coast to feel different since it's a coast, but it felt like a different time and place and everything, like it wasn't the same planet, as I said.

I liken Half Life 2's story to a good David Lynch film. You either get it or you don't. To some, his films are nothing more than weird and illogical mish-mashes of scenes bewilderingly strung together. To others it's like a masterwork artistic painting (the entire game world of Half Life 2 being that painting) that leaves things for the viewer (or in this case the player) to interpret and construct for himself a coherent whole. Some people enjoy this sort of thing, and some simply don't.

Hahahaha...good analogy (to an extent)...because I ****ing hate Lynch's movies (at least, the Lost Highway/Mulholland Dr. ones).
I understand them perfectly, but think it's an utter waste of time because he never bothers to create CHARACTERS (no really, Mulholland Drive was so focused on its "plot" that she was never a CHARACTER really...even diehard lynchies I've talked to freely admit to this, but are less character centered than I am).

 

[ThrasherX9]

I DO faintly remember that, remembered it when he said that even. But he looks nothing like that guy so I couldn't REALLY connect it.

Just have to comment on that one (don't feel like writing a novel making a response to your posts) but considering that there was only "1" black model in HL1 I find it hard to believe that he looks nothing like the original