Perendev's permanent magnet motor

rahula said:
If I was a triangle, I would get my self-conciousness by counting my angles: One, two, three. I would also assume myself being two-dimensional. Then I read in a newspaper, that one Eistein claims, that there is another dimension, concerning me too. What would I do to confirm my status as triangle and to keep my self- respect? I would count my angles again: one, two, three, ok, I am still a triangle.
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A triangle is a two-dimensional drawing, no matter what shape of surface its drawn on. Even if its drawn on a sphere, its internal angles still add up to 180.

Let us know what drugs you're on, I could do with some.
 
What ever happened to this magic wheel that uses tiny invisible vacuum cleaners to suck mystery power from space?

Surely we should have destroyed the oil industry by now. It's just a bunch of magnets on a wheel. It should be finished by now.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
What ever happened to this magic wheel that uses tiny invisible vacuum cleaners to suck mystery power from space?

Surely we should have destroyed the oil industry by now. It's just a bunch of magnets on a wheel. It should be finished by now.
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I've got one. It opened a door to an alternate dimension, pulled all my skin into the gravitational void, and destroyed any last, lingering vestiges of my belief in a loving God I had left. Man, I'll tell ya, typing sure is a bitch now.
 
I'm sure if it's real there'll be a lot of media attention and fuss over it.

A powersource with no pollution and no fuel required, yet no-one's really taken notice except a few people on the internet?
 
new_motor_with_shields_375.jpg


As far as I know this is the latest model, and they are apparently showcasing it in Munich this May.

http://www.perendev-power.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page45.html
 
About how far away is this thing from being a practicial source of power?
 
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About that far.

The thing doesn't work, sadly. Clarky claims it absorbs zero-point energy, but I have not seen any mechanism or reason behind such a belief.

Also, there's the troublesome fact that the machines always stop after a short time, regardless of how new a version it is. Magnets do not create infinite magnetism, and wear out after prolonged / repeated use.

There isn't really any reason to believe these basic magnets are able to tap into a near-limitless supply of theoretical space energy while others do not.
To jump from that assumption to the belief that the laws of physics are fundamentally incorrect is silly.

If such a wheel really contained near-infinite energy, it would undergo a constant acceleration. It would not keep a fixed or decreasing speed.
 
Electromagnetic force is a form of energy. But energy is stored in the magnets from the past.

it does not create energy just convert to electrical, like everyother powerstation

But they will run out, and you have to maintain them.


Thats what i understand >_<

Its still a form of clean energy.
 
Contrary to what some people thing, Magnetism is not an infinite source of energy any more than gravity is. It's very similar to gravity in the sense that you can have magnetic potential energy which can be converted to kinetic energy but once you lose the magnetic potential energy (when the object gets closer to the magnet) it doesn't regenerate magically, unless you pull the object away from it (which requires energy in itself).

Magnets cannot create energy.
 
I think, that is so. Maybe the magnetic motor is a hoax, intended to rip off investors, take the money and run. I say maybe, because I dont want to libel anyone. Maybe also, the motor works. By the way, my triangel-contribution was a joke, I was only kidding. Sorry for that.
 
These things always fail..you can't get free energy, but you can get really close to even energy (which is the same energy you put in to a system, gets put out).
 
dream431ca said:
These things always fail..you can't get free energy, but you can get really close to even energy (which is the same energy you put in to a system, gets put out).
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Its not free energy. Its converting stored energy in the magnets.

Magnets lasts for ages.

If this could could create energy. It would be all the rage.
 
In a magnet, there is not much energy stored. If you have a magnet on one side, and a piece of the same material, but not magnetized, on the other, the magnet has a little less entropy than the other thing, because the magnetic areas in it are all arranged in the same direction. This difference of entropy, a form of energy, is very small. Potential energy is only there, if you have two magnets, or a magnet and a piece of iron for example. The energy is the integral of force (repulsion or attraction) times the distance, that this force might be able to move these magnets apart or together. If you had a magnetic motor, that would be driven by the magnets, losing their magneticity, this motor would not even make one whole turn under load, not to speak of 20 kilowatts.
 
regardless of how new a version it is. Magnets do not create infinite magnetism, and wear out after prolonged / repeated use.
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Permanent magnets can last hundreds and even thousands of years if kept in the right conditions and are not subject to intense heat change or strong eddy currents.

It's peoples interpretation of what energy is that changes how we percieve the issue (mostly anything that gets work done is what we coin as energetic), but take this into account..

People say you can't have 'free' energy, but in particle physics there are fleeting elements that keep the electron spinning, potentials that suddenly become real on and off on and off constantly. By the very definition that process is free, we don't have to put anything into it. My point is simply to try and understand that our universe wasn't born from nothing, but from the hudge amount of virtual potential that exists and is needed to exist to keep supplying these fleeting energetic elements, without that process our reality would most likely break down or switch off.

The word scalar gives zero value yes, but essentially what it means is virtual, the potential component before it becomes physically observable. (virtual zero vector origins have an impact on the vectors we calculate) So weither it be the higgs field, or vacuum matrix, or scalar field, it all refers to the same thing. This relates to magnets in that it can explain the source of the charge which is presently not understood. So basically the macroscopic energy we see is a result of the potential energy, now if you can think of more elaborate and accurate setups for intercepting more of the vaste amount of possible potential energy rather than say using magnets to crudley induce a current in a wire like in a conventional motor, then your on the way to extracting more useful EM energy rather than have it all that extra potential wasted as it flys past the circuit/coil.
 
Perpetual motion machine #4302. People have been making these for the last 200 years and yet somehow they never seem to hit the market. I wonder why.
 
Dan said:
Perpetual motion machine #4302. People have been making these for the last 200 years and yet somehow they never seem to hit the market. I wonder why.
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Because they don't actually work... :rolleyes:
 
clarky003 said:
"People say you can't have 'free' energy, but in particle physics there are fleeting elements that keep the electron spinning, potentials that suddenly become real on and off on and off constantly."

So, this might be an approach to explaining the magnet motor: Energy is drawn from a magnet by lessening either the spin of electrons, Protons, Neutrons, or circle currents in atoms. Next, these spins or circle currents are regenerated by virtual photons out of the vacuum. This way, energy is drawn out of the vaccum (zero point energy).
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Again, electrons don't actually spin. They just have an intrinsic property known as spin, which is related to the angular momentum. It's just called 'spin', but actually, pointlike particles cannot rotate!

And spin is a conserved quantity, so you can't "lessen it"

Spin is a quantum number, and is therefore quantised (i.e. it has discrete values, e.g. -1/2, +1/2 in the case of an electron)

That is to say, the electron has two possible energy states associated with it's own spin.
 
Hi, Kirovman, yes, spin is a conserved quantity, I thought, maybe this conservation is a process, in a way, that virtual photons from the vacuum always set the spin straight, but with a little delay sometimes, so this delay could be used to drive a magnet motor. Er, ok, I see, this is not likely so (sounds weird), so what about circle currents in atoms? Can they be lessened and replaced by virtual photons?
 
In the atom, the electrons don't actually orbit the atom in a conventional orbiting sense.

There is a probablity 'cloud' surrounding the atom, which you'll know as the electron shell. The electron may occupy any space in this shell, but it doesn't actually orbit - I can't remember if the electron in the atom produces currents (I guess not, since it's not moving in any way that could be described as a coherant movement - the random motions it goes through would cancel the current to zero, it's only located within the probability cloud), but

I'm not sure what you mean by replacing the currents with virtual photons, but the very fact that the photons are virtual means they must have begun the process as electrons and ended as something, such as electrons. You can't steal intrinsic energy from electrons.
 
Its important at this stage to remember that the current models of atomic physics are just that - models.

Until somebody actually comes up with a unified theory, we won't know for sure whats actually going on. For all we know, electrons might look like Treefrogs.
 
Why I wrote about circle currents in atoms, was, because I have read in a sciefentific lexicon, that the reason for magnetic fields is the spin of protons and neutrons and circle currents in atoms. Now, I remember, that the electron orbitals, the probability clouds, sometimes have a spheroid shape, sometimes one of double-clubs, and some "look" like rings. I also have read somewhere, that photons interact with electrons in a way, that they can kick an electron into a higher orbital, being absorbed. On the other hand, when an electron falls into a lower orbital, a photon is emitted. Now I think: Maybe in the ring-like orbitals there is a circle-current, or, lets say: a probability of circulation, that creates a magnetic field. Now, if an adverse magnetic field from outside is applied, maybe, this probable circle-current breaks down, and so does the shape of the ring-orbital, because it needs this circle-current to keep its ringlike form. Now it takes on the form of an orbital one step lower, lets say a double-club. But this lower orbital is full already, there is no place for this poor electron. So what it does, it grabs a virtual photon out of the zero point vacuum, just to get back into the ring orbital where it belongs. Now also the magnetic field is restored this way. Now I ask You: Might this be able to happen? I must admit, that I have not studied the topic in an university or so. But I think, forums like this one (halflife) are for people like me (halfknowledge). Maybe we can define the probability of a working magnet motor by speculation in this probability cloud. Maybe too, the inventors of the magnet motor could do it better by just proving, that it works. All they would have to do, send one motor to an university or to Nature magazin, for example.
 
I thik the spherical probability distribution is the 0th shell, the tear-drop (double clubs?) is 1st order shell, etc (as per the Laplace solutions).

If a lower orbital is already full, the Pauli Exclusion Principle applies, and there is a repulsion associated with that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle

Applying the magnetic field to the atom would cause the atom to move before you could overlap orbitals, I would say, because Pauli Repulsion is much more powerful than the electromagnetic force.
 
clarky003 said:
The word scalar gives zero value yes, but essentially what it means is virtual, the potential component before it becomes physically observable. (virtual zero vector origins have an impact on the vectors we calculate) So weither it be the higgs field, or vacuum matrix, or scalar field, it all refers to the same thing. This relates to magnets in that it can explain the source of the charge which is presently not understood. So basically the macroscopic energy we see is a result of the potential energy, now if you can think of more elaborate and accurate setups for intercepting more of the vaste amount of possible potential energy rather than say using magnets to crudley induce a current in a wire like in a conventional motor, then your on the way to extracting more useful EM energy rather than have it all that extra potential wasted as it flys past the circuit/coil.
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Nice pile of star-treky bullshit there, but you neglect that that quantum mechanics explicitly prohibit transitions from lowest state to any lower state.

You cannot remove energy from the zero-point, because there is nothing beyond the zero-point.

Mainly for that reason, there is no known method of extracting zero-point energy from anything. So the claim that all the magnets on Earth do it constantly and automatically is strongly suspect.

Simply put, there is absolutely no scientific or experimental research documenting any validity in your claims.
An ignorance towards scientific procedure is the hallmark of pseudoscience. So is borderline impenetrable technobabble. Not to mention clouding that technobabble with tremendously poor grammar.

Your entire strategy relies upon being incomprehensible to the layman.

Just look at this sentence:

"So basically the macroscopic energy we see is a result of the potential energy, now if you can think of more elaborate and accurate setups for intercepting more of the vaste amount of possible potential energy rather than say using magnets to crudley induce a current in a wire like in a conventional motor, then your on the way to extracting more useful EM energy rather than have it all that extra potential wasted as it flys past the circuit/coil."

Let's check the errors here:

1) Zero-Point Energy =/= Potential Energy.
Zero-point energy is the lowest amount of kinetic energy that exists in the vibration of a particle.

2) Zero-Point Energy cannot be "intercepted".
As stated above, it is called the zero-point for a reason.

3) Magnets do not "induce current in a wire" in a conventional motor.
Assuming that by "conventional motor" you mean "electric motor", then the correct statement is that an electric current creates a magnetic field in a wire, and not vice-versa.

That's the basic explanation for how electromagnetism works, and you got it wrong. Hmm.

4) The sentence, as you wrote it, is actually a trainwreck of 2-3 different sentences mashed together.
Even when untangled, each would require proper spelling and comma use.
I don't think it's pedantic to ask that you write in english when trying to convice us that you are a Super-Scientist.

5) The last section of the mega-sentence makes no sense, largely due to the problems listed above.
Electromagnetic fields can be "extracted" without using electric charges? Wha?
Most anyone with a limited knowledge of physics could tell you that magnetism and electricity are co-dependant. You cannot have one without the other.


After re-reading what you wrote about twelve times, it is also perhaps possible that you are actually talking 'bout an unrealistically efficient generator and not a motor?
One that can suck unlimited electricity straight out of magnets from pure proximity?
I really have no clue if that's what you meant.

However, the basic gist I'm getting is:
You're claiming you can get electric/kinetic energy without any original energy to convert it from. Basically creating energy out of nowhere.
That's silly.

Edit: re-read another twelve times and it still doesn't make much sense.
 
I have an idea, let's wait and find out.


No matter how much you argue about it, if it's real it's real, if not-not. We'll find out soon enough.
 
So, this whole thing is turning out again to showing us all, that we have to work very hard to acheive to meet our needs. There is no such thing as free energy. OK, now lets forget about it and focus again on reality. It sucks, ok, but its the only thing we have, reality. We must cope with it, like it or not. So, is this now the end of this thread? Not, if you magnet-motor-makers demonstrate us their function at last. If you dont, that was it, and we reality refugees will find something else, feng shui or whatever.
 
Waiting to Clarky to accept that his machine doesn't work sounds appealing, but we might as well wait for Godot.

Clarky's advertised since at least the start of this thread on November of 2003. It's been three years of utterly nothing for an extremely simple design.

I am rather tired of people believing in things that don't and won't exist.

I want clarky, in decent english, to describe how his machine works, without getting the basic mechanics wrong.
I want clarky to build the machine and power his house for a year with its near-infinite energy.

I want his money picked up, and I want it stuffed where his mouth is.
I think this should be an endgame scenario.
 
This isn't about me its about perendev you numbnuts, Im just as eager to wait and see what happens.. why be tired...? because it goes against the understanding of physical EM models that are heavily truncated from maxwell's origional papers. models that are over 100 years old and dont compliment particle physics and relativity.

Please, if your so nieve as to believe that the understanding of what exists now is so complete then you don't have a clue. Do you understand poynting and heavside potential flow, have you read about the latest in particle physics, do you understand the actuality of what imparts observable electrical flow? classical and quantum mechanics do not include certain phenomena that allow for asymmetric systems that maxwells origional quanternions predicted, and do not answer critical questions of the source of charges. I mean just look around you, matter, curved space time the universe is a giant negative entropy process from the big bang onward weve had energy pouring out into 3 space, it's just the lack of understanding of the vacuum and the source of the charge that prevents us from converting EM energy into higher COP values. and FYI a normal EM generator infact extracts energy from the vacuum if you look at it in particle physics, it just doesn't do it very well,

i.e It takes the potential poynting flow being emparted on the coil, the spinning magnetic field interacting with the wire transmutes that potential by resonance and interferance in the wire into real EM energy which we then percieve as electrical flow so the real source of that energy isn't the fuel you use to power the rotating magnet, but actually the potential flow intercepting the wire.

Your not getting energy out of nowhere, what your implying is impossible and at the same time your in contradicition with the big bang and the nature of matter as we know it, the energy needed for the big bang was invisible yet there was vaste quantities converted into observable 3 space quite clearly, you NEED fleeting energy elements to explain quantum sustainment, essentially free energy.. we didnt start the atom and we'll be damned if we know howto turn it off.

We are talking about higher symmetry phenomenology when we talk about higgs field etc, not quantum, not classical.

and the mention of zero point energy shows how little you know, energy from the Vacuum is NOT zero point energy, since the latter is an observable state and the vacuum energy is nonobservable.

If I had a clue how the actual mechanics of the motor worked I'd tell you, but to be quite honest even if I did I don't care for your stubborn reasoning and ultra skeptic attitude, go talk to people who know more about it rather than trying to invoke arguments on subject matter that you seem to be out of depth in, with your current attitude any unified field concept is possibly beyond your comprehension. But this is now in mainstream science, just pick up a new scientist or a scientific america, and higgs field (vacuum, scalar field) and higgs bosons are all the rage, higher symmetry phenomenon . Like it or lump it.
 
clarky003 said:
This isnt about me its about perendev you numbnuts, Im just as eager to wait and see what happens.. why be tired...? because it goes against the understanding of physical EM models that are heavily truncated from maxwell's origional papers. models that are over 100 years old and dont compliment particle physics and relativity.

Please, if your so nieve as to believe that the understanding of what exists now is the so complete then you don't have a clue, do you understand poynting and heavside potential flow, have you read about the latest in particle physics, do you understand the actuality of where electricity comes from? classical and quantum mechanics do not include certain phenomena that allow for asymmetric systems, it does not mean it doesnt happen, just look around you, matter, curved space time the universe is a giant negative entropy process from the big bang onward weve had energy pouring out into 3 space, just the lack of understanding of the vacuum and source of the charges that prevents us from harnessing higher COP values, and normal EM generator infact extracts energy from the vacuum if you look at it in particle physics, it just doesnt do it very well.
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Really? You have all this Super Scientific knowledge that makes you so superior in your understanding of the universe?
Why don't you tell us about it in a way that makes sense, then?

You're making claim after claim that you refuse to back up in a comprehensible way.
Those claims that I was vaguely able to discern were gross errors. You called a generator a motor for crissakes.

In light of all that, why should I believe you actually understand either Heavside's work or Poynting Theorem (which specifically concerns the same Law Of Conservation Of Energy that you claim doesn't exist)?

I am being completely honest when I say you're all talk - and you can barely even handle that.

So am I really nieve to trust scientists instead of your latest mystical device and tremendous scientific and logical mistakes?

How about you tell us what was "heavily truncated" from Maxwell's "origional" papers, for example, instead of just implying that I somehow believe his conclusions on light weren't corrected by Einstein's special relativity theory?
No-one even mentioned Maxwell. Why are you bringing it up?
This looks like a diversion.

How about explaining what the hell any of that has to do with your theory that magnets last forever? As far as I can tell, you're just throwing out scientific terms as buzzwords that you do not understand.

"curved space time"
"giant negative entropy process"
"3 space"
"higher COP values"

Like I said, you can't get basic terminology right. How am I supposed to believe you have discovered a "negative entropy process" in simple household magnets?
Negative Entropy is just another word for Free Energy, and as far as I can tell you don't even know the difference between Thermodynamic Free Energy and Magical Clarky Free Energy.

-Thermodynamic Free Energy is how much work can be extracted from a normal system (a system that follows actual conservation of energy law).

-Magical Clarky Free Energy claims that magnets have infinite power, in defiance of conservation of energy.

Just so you know.

normal EM generator infact extracts energy from the vacuum if you look at it in particle physics, it just doesnt do it very well.
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Understatement of the year.
You're claiming infinite energy, while these things run out forever in five hours flat.
Come on.

So please:
Write, in proper sentences, how this thing actually works.
If you can't, then please link to an adult who can do it for you.
That's all I ask. It'd be nieve to expect any less from you.
 
Surprise! You edited more text into your post.

clarky003 said:
[...] so the real source of that energy isn't the fuel you use to power the rotating magnet, but actually the potential flow intercepting the wire.
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You are claiming that you don't even need the fuel or wire or even half the magnets to make a generator work.
This is not a claim that you have at all proven.

In a hand-cranked generator, just as an example, the kinetic energy is converted to electromagnetic energy.
If your hand-cranked generator does not have the crank, the generator is broken.
Your perendev motor has no cranks. (Except, maybe, its inventors.)

There is no energy being fed into the system to be converted.

Your not getting energy out of nowhere, [...] you NEED fleeting energy elements to explain quantum sustainment, essentially free energy.. we didnt start the atom and we'll be damned if we know howto turn it off.
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Again, more technobabble covering up the fact that you're claiming the zero-point energy is extractable when it is not.

and the mention of zero point energy shows how little you know, energy from the Vacuum is NOT zero point energy, since the latter is an observable state and the vacuum energy is nonobservable.
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In quantum field theory, zero-point energy is synonymous with vacuum energy. Are we not talking about particles here?

If I had a clue how the actual mechanics of the motor worked I'd tell you, but to be quite honest even if I did I don't care for your stubborn reasoning and ultra skeptic attitude, go talk to people who know more about it rather than trying to invoke arguments on subject matter that you seem to be out of depth in, with your current attitude any unified field concept is possibly beyond your comprehension.
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Tactful.
I couldn't even tell if you were treating zero-point and vacuum synonymously or not (which, apparently, you weren't). You are not writing in english.
That entire quote was written as a single sentence!
Do you not see a problem with that?

I am having extreme amount of trouble understanding what you write, and it is not caused by a poor understanding of physics on my part.
Rather, it is a result of a poor understanding of english on yours.
I might feel bad about making fun of a foreign dude who's just learning the language, but it says "Location: England" right there on every post you make, and you claim to read Scientific America.

However, I can understand enough of what you say to not that you have no clue how the device actually works.
So what is all this stuff about Maxwell and etc. for then?
If you don't understand what you are saying, that is an indication that you shouldn't be saying it.

So much for me being "out of my depth", whatever the hell my depth is. Judging by your arguments, however, I must surmise that it isn't the shallow end of the pool.

But this is now in mainstream science, just pick up a new scientist or a scientific america, and higgs field (vacuum, scalar field) and higgs bosons are all the rage, higher symmetry phenomenon . Like it or lump it.
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Oh wow, the theoretical particle is popular in Scientific America. I am glad you are able to read and understand Scientific America. Especially things like the title of Scientific American.

As far as I can tell, Higgs-Boson is just another buzzword in your arsenal of name-drops.
You must know there is a key difference between reading and understanding.

So how about you explain why you think Higgs-Boson Particles make vacuum energy extractable with magnets when it is, by all accounts, not extractable with magnets?

I'd love to hear it.

But remember: writing indecipherably should not be your goal.
Clarity helps everyone. Especially yourself.
 
Is it bad this ENTIRE thread confuses the bajezus outta me?
 
It's not too complex, despite the efforts of some people. :p

The basic summary is this:

Zero-Point Energy is the lowest amount of energy that exists, even in a total vacuum or a motionless particle.
Even empty space has this utterly miniscule amount.

Clarky claims magnets are able to extract this vacuum energy, giving them infinite electromagnetic energy.
Essentially, an infinite (or at least near-infinite) supply of power.

The Perendev motor, according to Clarky, is able to tap into this infinite power.
So it is only a matter of time before we have more power than we will ever need and, I guess, the world will become a utopia.

However, science says Clarky is mistaken because magnets do not have infinite power.
Also, that you cannot extract energy from the zero-point because you can't have less than zero-point.
This is apparently confirmed by the fact that the perendev motor's magnets demagnetize after approximately five hours.

Clarky disagrees with this conclusion, for reasons that don't make sense to me.

..and that's about where we are now in the discussion.
 
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