Pope attacks atheism

[RidleyRockets]

I'm presuming that there being no evidence for a god, let alone the christian god is a reasoning that conflicts with yours.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

There's plenty of evidence. But Science isn't trying to disprove him last I checked. Soooo. Yea, no conflict.

 

[RidleyRockets]

Science doesn't have to disprove things that there is no evidence for. If there is no evidence for something then it is unreasonable to consider it fact.

Please share this evidence with us.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Well, I can't. It's from personal events. Which as we all know, cannot be counted for scientific observation. So I happily believe and will do so until I die.

You know what? What exactly are we even discussing here? I was saying how the Pope may be directing his speech to China and now Everyone's questioning my theology.

 

[RidleyRockets]

So plenty of evidence is actually just personal evidence unique to yourself that cannot be shared with anyone else? That is not plenty of evidence and barely evidence at all.

I was just questioning a statement you made that turned out ot be false. Feel free to continue discussing China.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Oh, that statement. I thought you meant from my life.
No, the plenty is all around. I'll list a few

There is a bacteria that can mutate frogs so they grow 8 or so legs and get eaten by stalks, where they reproduce and go out of the stalk to find more frogs and restart the cycle. How could such a creature evolve without knowing that stalks are predator and Frogs are prey. How could it have adapted it's own genetics for both creatures. One is understandable, but how two? Last I checked, bacteria are not self aware nor able to distinguish what eats what, let alone keep it in its memory.(Not challenging evolution, just questioning how it could be without some sort of guidance helping it to evolve that way)

Stories of people hearing conversations from the next room over while they are in surgery.

EVPs

The moon's size being just right for a total eclipse and not enough for a total blackout. No where thus far has it been observed.

Multiverse theory: How can a universe recognize alterations via time travel and split itself as per different situations created by altering such. Also, why are there no clone universes? (heavy theorizing, yea I know)

Humans are the only creatures to have developed the way we did. 100s of millions of years went by for dinos, mammals, bugs, etc, but we were the only ones who, in a mere 1 million years, went from ape to man. Animal to sentient. There are plenty of sentient creatures out there today (Elephants, whales, cuddle fish, dolphins, great apes, etc) but why are we the only ones who had the drive to leave and spread throughout the world, altering it as we went?

I could go on... and on and on and on.

 

[Jintor]

Oh, that statement. I thought you meant from my life.
No, the plenty is all around. I'll list a few

There is a bacteria that can mutate frogs so they grow 8 or so legs and get eaten by stalks, where they reproduce and go out of the stalk to find more frogs and restart the cycle. How could such a creature evolve without knowing that stalks are predator and Frogs are prey. How could it have adapted it's own genetics for both creatures. One is understandable, but how two? Last I checked, bacteria are not self aware nor able to distinguish what eats what, let alone keep it in its memory.(Not challenging evolution, just questioning how it could be without some sort of guidance helping it to evolve that way)

Basic Darwinism. Bacteria that mutate randomly until they achieve that combination of varying characteristics have an increased chance of survival. The reason you don't hear of the bacteria that don't do that is because they're really not that unusual. Or they didn't survive. One or the other. Possibly both.

Stories of people hearing conversations from the next room over while they are in surgery.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

EVPs

The moon's size being just right for a total eclipse and not enough for a total blackout. No where thus far has it been observed.

What's EVP?

The moon thing - definition of normal, based off the moon, reinforces itself seems to be the logic here. To which I say, what?

Multiverse theory: How can a universe recognize alterations via time travel and split itself as per different situations created by altering such. Also, why are there no clone universes? (heavy theorizing, yea I know)

Self-admitted problems.

Humans are the only creatures to have developed the way we did. 100s of millions of years went by for dinos, mammals, bugs, etc, but we were the only ones who, in a mere 1 million years, went from ape to man. Animal to sentient. There are plenty of sentient creatures out there today (Elephants, whales, cuddle fish, dolphins, great apes, etc) but why are we the only ones who had the drive to leave and spread throughout the world, altering it as we went?

Because we did, and screwed every other species who even had the chance to do it on the way. Also, take into account time.

Honestly, high probabilities is not proof of god.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Great answeres. But Not all are good.

Darwinism would not explain how the bacteria would be able to obtain the genetics to effect 2 species in the way it does. A normal parasite is understandable, but to be able to actually take advantage of it in such away requires heavy amounts of genetic codding. Either God or Aliens did it in my opinion.

The evidence of over a million usually becomes a fact. We might as well say the holocaust didn't happen. Bot have written down proofs and both parties agreeing it happened, but the third part still refuses to believe it happened.

EVPs a re the ghosts on recordings things.

The moon on Earth is the single only moon in the known universe to have an exact proportional point of view so as to be exactly the same size of the sun in our sky. Either God did it for God knows what reason, or aliens put us here for, once again, God knows what reason.

Multiverse is just a theory, so it requires heavy investigation, I just go the way scientists say it is.

Dinosaurs had plenty of time to evolve. So to did small mammals, bugs, everything. Hell, even humans would be no smarter then dolphins if we didn't leave Africa. The question is WHAT inspired us to leave and disperse throughout the Earth. What told us, or drove us, to seek out new lands and alter the Earth in so many ways.


Probability is God is real because it's popular opinion, which is usually right. Yea, it's a stupid argument, but power to the people I say.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Humans are the only creatures to have developed the way we did. 100s of millions of years went by for dinos, mammals, bugs, etc, but we were the only ones who, in a mere 1 million years, went from ape to man. Animal to sentient. There are plenty of sentient creatures out there today (Elephants, whales, cuddle fish, dolphins, great apes, etc) but why are we the only ones who had the drive to leave and spread throughout the world, altering it as we went?

I thought I'd add something to Jintor's arguement here.

God is all powerful right? Says so in the bible.

He could create the world and everything on it instantouesly, without breaking a sweat (since he has limitless power). So why wait 4.5 billion years for humanity to evolve?

The moon on Earth is the single only moon in the known universe to have an exact proportional point of view so as to be exactly the same size of the sun in our sky. Either God did it for God knows what reason, or aliens put us here for, once again, God knows what reason.

This is an arguement? Of course, because we haven't discoevered something it musn't exist. Silly me.

Do you actually have any idea how large the universe is? I honestly find myself doubting will discover a moon like ours for a few millenia, assuming we survive long enough.

Probability is God is real because it's popular opinion, which is usually right. Yea, it's a stupid argument, but power to the people I say.

A few hundred years ago popular oponion was that witches exist. In the stone age is was popular opnion that on the other side of cave walls spirits dwelled. But that doesn't make it true.

 

[Eejit]

He could create the world and everything on it instantouesly, without breaking a sweat (since he has limitless power). So why wait 4.5 billion years for humanity to evolve?

Maybe He has a sense of elegance

 

[Absinthe]

Maybe He has a sense of elegance

Come on.

Repost: "I want to make life. But instead of designing it as so, even though it would require literally no effort in light of my limitless powers, I'll make a process that generates organisms over millions of years! Sure, most species will go extinct over the course of time. But I'll keep plugging at it until homo sapiens arrive. Then I'll give them a book!"

That's not to say evolution and natural selection aren't elegant. But it is an awfully inconvenient, slow, and totally impractical way of getting your "children" (humans) onto the planet if it's actually a designed process. At the expense of over 90% of all species that have ever existed on the planet, I might add. You can't spin this as elegance with a straight face.

 

[Eejit]

Nah I was thinking even more basic than that

"I want intelligent life to arrive at some point, so I shall create a Big Bang in such a way that a universe arrives with physical laws which shall allow this to eventually happen countless times on countless planets without further interference by Me"

IMO that'd be the most elegant thing imaginable... It's not like God would have a time limit right? Being God and everything I'm sure he'd be pretty patient.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

If I was God I would be so lazy.

 

[Jintor]

Great answeres. But Not all are good.

Darwinism would not explain how the bacteria would be able to obtain the genetics to effect 2 species in the way it does. A normal parasite is understandable, but to be able to actually take advantage of it in such away requires heavy amounts of genetic codding. Either God or Aliens did it in my opinion.

Uh, no, it does. See, if you get anough mutations (and given the amount of bacteria...) you'll end up with at the very least one type of bacteria that will be able to do that. And that will have a higher chance of breeding to survive, and it's all Darwinism from there.

The evidence of over a million usually becomes a fact. We might as well say the holocaust didn't happen. Bot have written down proofs and both parties agreeing it happened, but the third part still refuses to believe it happened.

You've mistaken Anecdotal Evidence for real ****ing evidence.

EVPs a re the ghosts on recordings things.

Shitloads of explanations.

The moon on Earth is the single only moon in the known universe to have an exact proportional point of view so as to be exactly the same size of the sun in our sky. Either God did it for God knows what reason, or aliens put us here for, once again, God knows what reason.

Incredibly high statistics does not a God make. Besides, who's to say Zeus didn't do it? He was a real prick with fooling around with humans.

Multiverse is just a theory, so it requires heavy investigation, I just go the way scientists say it is.

I roll with the sci-fi writers, myself.

Dinosaurs had plenty of time to evolve. So to did small mammals, bugs, everything. Hell, even humans would be no smarter then dolphins if we didn't leave Africa. The question is WHAT inspired us to leave and disperse throughout the Earth. What told us, or drove us, to seek out new lands and alter the Earth in so many ways.

Survival. Pretty simple.

Darwinism from there.

Probability is God is real because it's popular opinion, which is usually right. Yea, it's a stupid argument, but power to the people I say.

**** 'em. The people are blistering idiots.

Nah I was thinking even more basic than that

"I want intelligent life to arrive at some point, so I shall create a Big Bang in such a way that a universe arrives with physical laws which shall allow this to eventually happen countless times on countless planets without further interference by Me"

IMO that'd be the most elegant thing imaginable... It's not like God would have a time limit right? Being God and everything I'm sure he'd be pretty patient.

Well, that's the unwinnable arguement, isn't it? "Since we can't understand the mind of a hypothetical God, anything he does can't be understood by us, therefore God exists". It's a Get-Out-Of-Theological-Arguments-Free card.

 

[.Wolf.]

how stupid. how, remarkably stupid.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Er, ambigious statements ftw?

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

I have no idea what's happened in the last 10 hours since I went to sleep, so I'll simply take the whole 4.5 billion years on no human thing and a few others: There are other things in the universe you know? maybe God was busy there and set Earth on Autorun? Or maybe he just would like humans to have something to appreciate over. I don't know about you, but people would have more respect for a billions year old Earth then a thousand year old one in my opinion.

Anyway, the bacterium that mutates frogs couldn't have survived very long if it didn't know that it had to get to the stalk. I know it's a weka argument, but how could it know what;s prey and what's predator? This is bacteria, not a mammal with a brain.

Anywho, I'm, tired, I messed up most of what I wrote, and I simply don't care for arguing over God. I'd much rather argue over politics, the whole point of this forum section, as I like that more.

See ya, I lose and I don't care. I got to get back to my Half Life movie that I'm making.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I have no idea what's happened in the last 10 hours since I went to sleep, so I'll simply take the whole 4.5 billion years on no human thing and a few others: There are other things in the universe you know? maybe God was busy there and set Earth on Autorun?

It wouldn't matter how busy he is, he is all powerful.

Or maybe he just would like humans to have something to appreciate over. I don't know about you, but people would have more respect for a billions year old Earth then a thousand year old one in my opinion.

Or he could show us the incomprehensible paradise of heaven straight away, would make me appreaciate a lot.

Anywho, I'm, tired, I messed up most of what I wrote, and I simply don't care for arguing over God. I'd much rather argue over politics, the whole point of this forum section, as I like that more.

Many discussions in politics are about religion, its generally considered part of the politics section (since we don't have a religion section).

See ya, I lose and I don't care. I got to get back to my Half Life movie that I'm making.

:O

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

I lose, but I will say this, If we got heaven right away we wouldn't learn didly squat. God doesn't like immediate gratification little brats.

 

[kirovman]

Well, you're burning in hell for eternity, but at least you learned something.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I lose, but I will say this, If we got heaven right away we wouldn't learn didly squat. God doesn't like immediate gratification little brats.

Why do we need to learn anything? God is all powerful, he could have created us better. Why does he even need to test us? He is all knowing so wouldn't he already know who is good and who is bad? Not to mention anyone going to hell is completely his fault. He created us which means he could have made us better. It isn't our fault he made us imperfect so why should we suffer eternally? Why would he pit us up against supernatural forces when we are tiny humans? Why punish us eternally for actions we do in our short meaningless lifespan? I could go on and on with questions like this, a perfect god doesn't exist logically.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Then why ever create us? He's made everything for a reason: Lesson learning on our own. Why should God make us have immediate gratification? I don't know. Maybe he got bored being in eternity all alone, so he made life and everything.

Well, you're burning in hell for eternity, but at least you learned something.

Actually I didn't learn anything. I just got tired arguing over something that neither side can prove but feel they have all the answerers to.

 

[Jintor]

Then why ever create us? He's made everything for a reason: Lesson learning on our own. Why should God make us have immediate gratification? I don't know. Maybe he got bored being in eternity all alone, so he made life and everything.

Srsly. You can't use the Unbeatable Arguement of "God is beyond mortal ken, who are we to question his judgement" because, you know, it's logically inconsistent and assumes the existance of him in the first place.

 

[Absinthe]

So basically... As far as we know, God could be anything, anywhere, with any motives and any powers.

This sounds like the best foundation to base one's faith on.

 

[kirovman]

I could be God!

I welcome the faithful who have burnt the torch for me.

My first commandment is for you to annex most of Europe.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

No, i just look at history. I'm a universalist, so I think most all religions are made by God. I mean, Zoroastrian and Christianity are virtually clone religions.

 

[Stigmata]

No, i just look at history. I'm a universalist, so I think most all religions are made by God. I mean, Zoroastrian and Christianity are virtually clone religions.

So God intentionally created dozens of similar but exclusive religions to... what? What would be the purpose of that? The only thing that's done is set progress back a few thousand years thanks to religious strife.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

So we would learn to get along. It is the single most strongest restraint of humanity to hate those who are different. Once we learn to get along, then humanity will become immensely powerful. So powerful that nothing will stop us. That one thing keeps us from spreading to the universe, conquering disease, stopping our own downfall, etc. When we learn that all are equal, humanity will be perfected. It is the greatest lesson of life.

yeesh, didn't Half Life 2 teach you anything?

 

[Jintor]

So basically God's ****ing with us.

 

[Pesmerga]

The greatest lesson of life is learning that we're all the same?

I beg to differ, I am much better than most people I know!

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

And that's why WW3 is going to happen.

And Jintor. If you were an all powerful dude in the middle of no where, what would you do? ... Ok, AFTER you created a bunch of hot girls, what would you do? I'd probably create a universe too.

 

[Stigmata]

Create a universe, yes.

Intentionally inflict endless despair, pain and death upon those I've created? Perhaps not.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Well, that's our own doing. You don't blame war on God do you? Ok, somewhat maybe, but it is us who claim it in the name of God.


Wait, why am I still arguing over this? I ... cannot ... resist!

 

[Jintor]

And Jintor. If you were an all powerful dude in the middle of no where, what would you do? ... Ok, AFTER you created a bunch of hot girls, what would you do? I'd probably create a universe too.

Well, even before I created a bunch of hot girls, I'd have to define myself, and everything around me, and figure out what kind of space I was in, and define girls, and hotness, and what came before me, and if I were floating in space then what the **** created me, and what created him/her/it/???, etc, etc...

Well, that's our own doing. You don't blame war on God do you? Ok, somewhat maybe, but it is us who claim it in the name of God.

Since God is Omnipotent and all-powerful, any wars that occur - any disasters that occur - any bad things that occur happen because God lets them.

 

[Stigmata]

Well, that's our own doing. You don't blame war on God do you? Ok, somewhat maybe, but it is us who claim it in the name of God.


Wait, why am I still arguing over this? I ... cannot ... resist!

If God created us, and the entire goddamn Universe, then of course it's his fault if we harm each other. He clearly has the capacity to stop it.

Then again the idea of God doesn't make any sense to begin with, so it's perhaps more logical to realize he probably doesn't exist.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

God could stop it, but then we'd all be little brats asking him to do a million other things.

 

[Avoidist]

Then again the idea of God doesn't make any sense to begin with, so it's perhaps more logical to realize he probably doesn't exist.

Ignosticism ftw.

God could stop it, but then we'd all be little brats asking him to do a million other things.

If God is relatively impartial, then we are far better off as a society living by our own morality than an arbitrary book. Most people do that anyway, and then the religious praise those parts where they overlap, and then condemn others where they dislike something in a moral conflict and quote scripture for strength.

Don't try to define God, it is ultimately pointless. "Penguins might as well speculate about nuclear physics."

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

True, but why live if there is no reason to. Guess I'm just a hopeless optimist of the enduring human spirit. I simply cannot believe that life gets 100 years and then goes kaput, or 7 if your a Dog. LoL

 

[Avoidist]

True, but why live if there is no reason to. Guess I'm just a hopeless optimist of the enduring human spirit. I simply cannot believe that life gets 100 years and then goes kaput, or 7 if your a Dog. LoL

If you look at life with that perspective, then you simply can't appreciate it's beauty. It's not about points for the afterlife and an eternity of bliss, it is about appreciating here and now, looking at the finite length of time and doing something with it. That doesn't mean you have to climb Mount Everest or help starving children in Ethiopia, though I would encourage both and want to do so in my brief span. No, it's about acknowledging that if you do good things then society is better for it, smiles on faces, all that stuff. About looking at nature and marveling at its complexity and history. About looking at the stars and knowing the universe is infinitely larger than ourselves and being awed. You may come across that in religion, but I would say there is a larger probability of doing so if you are not of a religion as you can easily lose sight and take things for granted following another path.

 

[Jintor]

God could stop it, but then we'd all be little brats asking him to do a million other things.

This reminds me of the "Why don't the muggles know?" thing in Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.