Popular Stupid Myths Number 1: Religion kills people!

[Letters]

There is no evidence to support aethism as well. Therefore the burden of proof still lies with him to prove evolution and the big bang (and anything else I can think of).

Evolution is an easy one... big bang, though... errrrrr...

 

[DoctorGordon]

Ahh whatever, pointless even debating over this, im done. I think im right, you think you're right. A god could exist, but i dont see any evidence at this time suggesting that thats a logical thing to believe in.

And since no decent evidence exists, anyone believing in religion currently needs to be put in front of a firing squad and blasted down.

Cheery Bye

 

[Tr0n]

Ahh whatever, pointless even debating over this, im done. I think im right, you think you're right. A god could exist, but i dont see any evidence at this time suggesting that thats a logical thing to believe in.

And since no decent evidence exists, anyone believing in religion currently needs to be put in front of a firing squad and blasted down.

Ain't that why they call it faith?Try it for once... :thumbs:

 

[blahblahblah]

Ahh whatever, pointless even debating over this, im done. I think im right, you think you're right. A god could exist, but i dont see any evidence at this time suggesting that thats a logical thing to believe in.

I got what I wanted.

And since no decent evidence exists, anyone believing in religion currently needs to be put in front of a firing squad and blasted down.

Cheery Bye

You know atheism is classified as a belief system since it has not been proven? That means it is a religion. :O

 

[DoctorGordon]

I got what I wanted.



You know atheism is classified as a belief system since it has not been proven? That means it is a religion. :O

Wow...smart

 

[OrrA]

And since no decent evidence exists, anyone believing in religion currently needs to be put in front of a firing squad and blasted down.

Thats quite an extremist and thoughtless thing to say..

 

[Tr0n]

You know atheism is classified as a belief system since it has not been proven? That means it is a religion. :O

You might be on to something.... :O

 

[Letters]

You know atheism is classified as a belief system since it has not been proven? That means it is a religion. :O

And that's why God created Agnosticism! I mean... :stare:

 

[rkef]

No one really knows for sure, the full story of how we came to be here.

Anyone who claims to is hilarious.

Thank you, goodnight.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

You know atheism is classified as a belief system since it has not been proven? That means it is a religion. :O

I dunno, I've always considered atheism to be a logic thing. Religions, in general, are all similar for one reason: they aren't logical. When presented with the universe, religions explain it in the least logical way.

I wonder how the earth is created, so I look at scientific research. Scientists have seen other suns just like ours be created out of coalescing nebulas of gas. They've found other planets, and have looked at how they formed.

I assume, along with the expert scientists doing the reasearch, that Earth is has been created as a result of millions of particles, rocks and other debris coming together under the weight of their collective gravity and smashing into each other layer by layer until they formed a near-perfect sphere.

Gravity is proven. Particles and rocks are proven. Earth is certainly proven.
I take all the evidence and find the most logical explanation I can come up with, until more evidence arrive which needs to be placed into the theory like a piece of a puzzle.

Religious folk instead come up with their own theories. Like a giant man, invisible to all means of detection created the Earth in a few days just because he wanted to, using an infinite power of unknown source.

Same evidence, two extremely different theories. Neither is completely proven, but one is made up of much more proof.

I try to find a correlation between cause and effect. Religions look at the effect and assume a cause.

It's not that I don't believe in god, or gods. It's that there simply isn't enough evidence to make me believe.

 

[mchammer75040]

Ain't that why they call it faith?Try it for once... :thumbs:

refer further down for what I think on this..

There is no evidence to support aethism as well...

If you want us atheists to prove that there isnt a god we cant, just like you cant prove he exists. Its something supernatural so there is no way we can know for sure, but there is a basis we can go on and what to accept and not based on logic.
Since I cant prove it wrong, Ill just demonstrate the reasoning I follow, up to you to take accept it or not:

Faith
First off you admited to there being no proof for your religion so I can only assume you accepted whatever religion you are based on faith alone. Ill argue that this is illogical, if no religion has any supporting evidence than how are we to know which religion is correct and which one is bogus? There are dozens of religions out there, how can you accept a religion based on faith alone? Its like drawing a card out of a hat, you have just as much chance of being right.

Now before you even say it, I dont (I cant speak for others) accept atheism on faith. It isnt the samething and this is what Im trying to demonstrate.

No religion is universal
One thing all religions have in common is they are all confined to their cultures and philosophies of their day. Why is it the bible only popped up in one small section of the world and not the rest at the sametime? If God wanted us all to worship him and follow the ten commandments then it makes sense he would allow the bible to be viewed by all at the sametime correct?
Not only that but doesnt it say in the bible that you cant go to heaven without first accepting jesus into your heart? So that means all those people who were (and there is still many out there now) never got to see the text went straight to hell. And if they didnt and got a free pass into heaven, whats the point of being saved?
Also dont throw the its God's plan at me, since that wont solve anything cause I could turn around and say the samething with any religion just insert a different God's name.

Personal experience
Alot of religious people say they believe in whatever religion they adhire to because of a supposed divine experience, but here lies the problem. If a muslim says he has experienced something divine within his religion that he believes proves his religion and a christian thinks the same, then how do we know is having a genuine divine experience with god and whos just delusional? Or perhaps something different all together?

God can only be known through holy text
Well I think this one is pretty self explanatory, why is it that God can only be known through holy text? If hes all knowing and all powerful than he could definetely just preload us with the information, and let us accept or deny it. This may seem trivial but there are problems with having religious text:

1.)Text is too open to interpretation
Take genisus for example, so much controversy is going on on how we are supposed to accept this. Did he mean it literally, or are we supposed to look at it in terms of metaphors? And if we are supposed to interpret it to gain truth then how do we know we have arrived at the truth? Maybe we are mistaken all together; if the bible is open to interpretation than that means I can pull anything I want to out of this fabulous ass of mine and you cant tell me it doesnt fit since none of us would know the true meaning.

2.)authenticity
Consider for a moment how many times the bible has been rewritten, edited, and some parts even banned. Hell we dont even have copies of the copies of the copies of the original text.
So how do we know what is in the bible was really said by God in the first place?
Your a pretty smart guy so I dont think we would have any trouble agreeing on the fact that people, in the past and now, have used religion, politics..etc. o suit their own agendas. So if we are to accept the bible how it is, how do we know the bible wasnt manipulated by theologians in the past for their own benefit and what we have now is the result of that?

Miracles
I wont go into this because I think Im taking up too much space as it is, but Ill debate it if you wish. For now Ill refer you to:
http://skepdic.com/miracles.html
http://skepdic.com/placebo.html

Evolution
I wont get into this, plus I think pvtryan would be better at debating/discussing this, but I will refer you to a debate going on now between evolution and creationism at PF:
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/showthread.php?t=117

And these sites which will prove helpful:
http://physics.syr.edu/courses/modules/ORIGINS/origins.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2

Also one should note that evolution and atheism dont go hand in hand so if evolution was one day proved wrong (which it wont, its gone through my scrunity in the last 100 years than any scientific theory and it still holds water) it doesnt mean religion wins by default since nearly all arguments against the bible on a philosophical basis dont require evolution.
Also since I mentioned theory let me take this chance to clarify that scientists use a different lexicon that uses the word theory in the context of something that is demonstratable, observable, and is based on facts.
Note:think of this as in the context of ALL religions.

These are the main reasons why I dont believe in religion, Im sure there is some holes you can poke so poke away and Ill rebuttle. If its neccessary Ill even disect passages from the bible to show how they are..bollocks . Good day and God bless.

 

[DoctorGordon]

Thank you professor

 

[poseyjmac]

No one really knows for sure, the full story of how we came to be here.

Anyone who claims to is hilarious.

Thank you, goodnight.

this is false, because you can't prove that no one knows the truth.

 

[mchammer75040]

I aim to please
EDIT: I refuse to click your sig posey, reverse psychology doesnt work on me .

 

[Neutrino]

I'll add my two cents.

When it comes to atheism there is a large difference between saying:

"I believe there is no god" and "I do not believe there is a god"

At first glance they may seem identical, but they are not. In the former case, yes you possibly could argue it is similar to a religion since the person is affirming a belief in something. The latter case, on the other hand, is not. It is quite the opposite in that it is not describing a belief, but a lack of belief. A lack of belief in something can hardly be said to be a religion in and of itself.


Taking it even further, personally I dislike the concept of "belief". I do not think it is a logical view of things. For example, I do not "believe" in gravity. I merely see the evidence for its existence and accept it as true until proven otherwise. Same thing for god. I see no real evidence for it and do not see it as a logical conclusion based on what we know. Therefore I do not think a god exists. But this is where the concept of belief comes in and why I don't like it. See I do not think god exist, but I'm willing to accept the possibility of his existence just like I'm willing to accept the possibility that gravity will not exist tomorrow. I say this because I obviously do not know everything so I can of course be wrong. Basically, I do not see the question of god's existence any different from anything else in the universe.I can only examine the evidence and come to what I think are logical conclusions.

This is why I think I can say I'm an atheist but I do not follow a religion. Perhaps some would consider me to be an agnostic, but I consider the possibilty of god existing to be so remote that atheism is really a more accurate term.

Additionally, if you look up the definition of religion I think you'd have a hard time fitting atheism into it. Religion is defined as primarly being a belief in the supernatural. It is further defined as a belief system held on faith. Atheism is neither about the supernatural or is it based on faith.

Edit:Just saw this quote:

[QUOTE="blahblahblah]There is no evidence to support aethism as well...[/QUOTE]

Well, I could argue that the lack of evidence for god is evidence supporting atheism. I mean a person can speculate about many things and it is often impossible to disprove that they are wrong entirely. Without any observable data available nothing can be proved wrong. I truly don't mean to offend with this statement, but consider the claim that bigfoot exists. It's a rather similar case in some ways because one can not prove that it does not exist. But the fact that there is no real evidence to support such a claim is evidence against the claim itself.

 

[DoctorGordon]

blahblahblah should have never started these word games

 

[Cybernoid]

Ok, people have been killed in the name of religion. But how many people have been killed in the name of Politics? The number skyrockets into the multimillions.

Huh? Because people have been killed over politics, it means that people have not been killed over religion? (confused) It's like saying that since some people have been killed for money, no people have been killed for personal issues.

 

[Neutrino]

Damn, ran out of time to edit my post.

Just wanted to add that I'm sorry to sort of gang up on you blah. I know you don't like to feel like you have to defend yourself from everyone. But please don't take any of it personally.

 

[DoctorGordon]

Damn, ran out of time to edit my post.

Just wanted to add that I'm sorry to sort of gang up on you blah. I know you don't like to feel like you have to defend yourself from everyone. But please don't take any of it personally.

Not like he was adding anything insightful to the arguement, instead...attempting to answer questions with questions, being arrogant, and 'playing word games'.

**cough** weak **cough**

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

what religion are you badger??

 

[rkef]

this is false, because you can't prove that no one knows the truth.

Interesting argument.

I suppose by that line of reasoning, I also couldn't conclude that there isn't someone alive who can fly, or a cat who can yodel.

Of course, until someone produces evidence of any of those things, I'll assume there aren't people who can fly, cats who can yodel, or anyone who knows the true and ultimate origin of everything.

(hint: the burden of proof lies not with me, but with those who make outrageous claims)

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

I hear it all the time:

Religion is bad, becuase people fight wars for it..

Put simply, you're talking bollocks

Ok, people have been killed in the name of religion. But how many people have been killed in the name of Politics? The number skyrockets into the multimillions.

Face it, people find excuses for wars etc, religion has nothing to do with it.

Flame me.

He is 100% correct in my eyes. Even bin ladens reasons are all political, not religious. they are just using religion as a way to manipulate people into helping them imo.

 

[poseyjmac]

Interesting argument.

I suppose by that line of reasoning, I also couldn't conclude that there isn't someone alive who can fly, or a cat who can yodel.

Of course, until someone produces evidence of any of those things, I'll assume there aren't people who can fly, cats who can yodel, or anyone who knows the true and ultimate origin of everything.

(hint: the burden of proof lies not with me, but with those who make outrageous claims)

you can assume anything you want, but its still illogical and closeminded.

 

[rkef]

you can assume anything you want, but its still illogical and closeminded.

It's illogical and closeminded to believe things without evidence.

I told you, I'd be happy to hear of some proof.

 

[DoctorGordon]

It's illogical and closeminded to believe things without evidence.

I told you, I'd be happy to hear of some proof.

Illogical yes, but i wouldnt say believing things without evidence is close-minded, if anything thats open-minded, way too open-minded.

(poseyjmac, is that Alyx wearing a robin hood hat in your av? lol)

 

[poseyjmac]

It's illogical and closeminded to believe things without evidence.

in the immortal words of michelle tanner: DUH!

but believing something exists and believing its possible for something to exist are two very different things.

edit: its peter pans hat, this guys to be exact: http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/

 

[DoctorGordon]

in the immortal words of michelle tanner: DUH!

but believing something exists and believing its possible for something to exist are two very different things.

edit: its peter pans hat, this guys to be exact: http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/

Oh yeah...this guy, ran into his site a few years ago **whisles**

What made you put his hat on poor Alyx? I've been wondering for months...

 

[poseyjmac]

har har. well i dunno one day i made some photochops that started with gordon as peter pan, then i had the hat cut out as a separate file anyway so i thought id put it on other people:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/gordonpan.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/valveshmozy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/wtf-combine.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/gordonweird5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/valvebig.jpg

heh. they don't make any sense i know. i guess i was bored

 

[DoctorGordon]

har har. well i dunno one day i made some photochops that started with gordon as peter pan, then i had the hat cut out as a separate file anyway so i thought id put it on other people:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/gordonpan.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/valveshmozy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/wtf-combine.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/gordonweird5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/valvebig.jpg

heh. they don't make any sense i know. i guess i was bored

LLLLLLLLLOOOOLLLLLLLLL!!!!! Those are beautiful. I really like the "Gordon-Lost Soul"

 

[Gunner]

Well DoctorGordon effectively hijacked the thread, this wasn't "Does God exist?"...

 

[poseyjmac]

the question is, did he hijack it in the name of a religion or of a certain political view

 

[DoctorGordon]

Well DoctorGordon effectively hijacked the thread, this wasn't "Does God exist?"...

Yes! Victory!

the question is, did he hijack it in the name of a religion or of a certain political view

...perhaps i hijacked it to convert some "believers" over to the dark side...through a series of carefully planned indirect posts

 

[CrazyHarij]

You won't be able to convert anyone, so stop trying. A belief isn't just some random theory people have, it's usually something they base their whole life around.

By the way, I was wondering what you think of other religions such as Buddhism where there is no god and the astral and astral projection?

 

[Sparta]

I hear it all the time:

Religion is bad, becuase people fight wars for it..

Put simply, you're talking bollocks

Ok, people have been killed in the name of religion. But how many people have been killed in the name of Politics? The number skyrockets into the multimillions.

Face it, people find excuses for wars etc, religion has nothing to do with it.

Flame me.

But religion is just another form of politics

 

[Chris D]

Ahh whatever, pointless even debating over this, im done. I think im right, you think you're right. A god could exist, but i dont see any evidence at this time suggesting that thats a logical thing to believe in.

And since no decent evidence exists, anyone believing in religion currently needs to be put in front of a firing squad and blasted down.

Cheery Bye

I'm getting really fed up of your attitude. You have your own opinions and your own beliefs about things - and that's great, it really is, but your way of expressing these beliefs and opinions can be highly offensive to people.

If I get any more complaints about you your account will be banned for two weeks.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Guns don't kill people, Chris_D does!

 

[Chris D]

Damn right

 

[Kadayi]

Honestly, what has made you believe in god? Where did god himself come from? Why do innocent people get slaughtered? Why would god program any of this into humans? The idea of a god is just retarded, made to convince stupid people.

And, you are a victim.

And you my friend are both an unoriginal, and uneducated Troll. Everything you've said in this entire thread is the usual religion bashing bullshit that comes around in every thread that ever attempts to discuss this topic. It's clear that you've never actually taken the time to investigate any religion in depth at all, in the manner in which you feebly attempt to generalise religion into one particular doctrine.

The pinnacle of these sorts of arguments seems to be about one side trying to prove that god exists. I'd put it to you that there is no such thing as love. Can you prove that love exists? Or hope? What is it that makes you cry at a funeral? A chemical reaction? Is there a scientic formula to Art? to literature?

 

[slider3005]

The pinnacle of these sorts of arguments seems to be about one side trying to prove that god exists. I'd put it to you that there is no such thing as love. Can you prove that love exists? Or hope? What is it that makes you cry at a funeral? A chemical reaction? Is there a scientic formula to Art? to literature?

wow, well said....

 

[Kadayi]

wow, well said....

I'd make it a more sustained point, but I've got a cold so I'm a little fuzzy, atm. I just tire of the same old recycled arguments coming up again and again and again. Personally I'm not religiously minded, but I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with the core of most religious doctrines. Generally the core teachings of all are fairly common sense codes of conduct for communal living, codes which form the backbone to ones cultural thinking. Is there a god? Does it honestly matter? If you refute the notion of a god, then you have to refute the notion of all that is intangible and exists within the realm of concept, to do otherwise is to deceive yourself and your convictions.