PSN Down and Out

Krynn72 said:
Anonymous is most definitely a group. Its several people categorizing themselves along with others. The fact that they have a motto which they put up on everything they hack is kind of a telltale sign. Its not just random people unaffiliated with each other who happen to want to remain anonymous doing this shit, its people intentionally referring to themselves, collectively, as Anonymous.

That said, Anonymous isn't a hacker group. Its a group who include hacking as just one of their many, many facets.
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I think Vegeta was more referring to a strict, technical form of 'group' - you can't count the members of Anonymous, there are no official criteria for being involved; certainly it's a label that people apply to themselves, a sort of loose artifice to which people can temporarily operate under the umbrella of - that said it's not an organisation as such.
 
Well then its just a semantic argument. I'll continue using the proper definition of "group" and he can keep using the dumb definition.
 
Compared to a normal hacking group, or any internet group, anon is a very different thing.

It's like just because a bunch of people want to call themselves emo doesn't make them a 'group'. If one emo does something you don't say 'the emos did it'

Same with anon. Anyone can call themselves anon and do something in the name of anon. It's so arbitrary.
 
Dynasty said:
Maybe I'm just the only one who doesnt take this so seriously. The way I see it; they either have or dont have your details. You can only deal with it when something suspicious happens or is spotted. So...why worry until then? Cross that bridge when you come to it.
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I agree with everything you said here.
 
PSN was running on unpatched Apache server with no firewall!
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http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/141872/20110505/sony-had-outdated-security-software-no-firewall.htm :LOL:
I mean every modern computer comes with Windows Firewall at the bare minimum!

There was also a meeting at Congress about this: http://www.cspan.org/Events/Members-Look-at-Threat-of-Data-Theft/10737421279-1/

Spafford added that Sony employees knew about the problem for two months before it came to light as a result of the data breach.
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Sony detected the hacking attack on April 19. But some data was stolen two to three days before that, from the Sony Entertainment Online network.
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Spafford noted that with 100 million records from Sony being released it might even depress the price of credit card records.
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On top of this people are planning on taking down Sony websites this weekend: http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/05/6593542-report-hackers-plan-third-attack-on-sony
 
Javert said:
When my health insurance company lost a hard drive possibly containing my data (didn't get stolen, they just lost it), they gave me 2 free years of credit monitoring. I wonder if Sony would do the equally decent thing at least.
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Looks like they've given everyone Debix, same thing as my health insurance company.
 
kineaesth said:
I think Vegeta was more referring to a strict, technical form of 'group' - you can't count the members of Anonymous, there are no official criteria for being involved; certainly it's a label that people apply to themselves, a sort of loose artifice to which people can temporarily operate under the umbrella of - that said it's not an organisation as such.
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lol anonymous may be legion but there is most definitely a small core of anons working together as a hacktivist organization that refers to itself as anonymous and has all the branding and whatnot. You know, the anonops guys that put out self-important press releases and whatnot.
 
There could be multiple groups like that within anon. Each thinking they're the 'main' one. There's no way of knowing. And it also doesn't invalidate the fact that anyone who isn't in those small groups can make a hack in the name of anon.
 
Oh wow, here's one funny story. Looks like sony IS indeed ran by bunch of ****ing retards.

Purdue University's Dr. Gene Spafford tells Congressional Subcommittee that the PlayStation Network's security was outdated--and Sony was aware of it.

This morning, the US House of Representatives' Subcommittee on Commerce, Manufacturing, and Trade began hearings on the threat of data theft to American consumers. Among those invited to testify was Sony Corp. executive vice president Kaz Hirai on the recent PlayStation Network outage and data breach. Hirai declined, instead sending a detailed account of the cyberattack to Subcommittee chairwoman Mary Bono Mack (R-CA) in the form of a letter.

Cybersecurity expert Dr. Gene Spafford testified before Congress that Sony knew the PSN's security was outdated.

One person who did show up to testify was Dr. Gene Spafford of Purdue University, who is also head of the US Public Policy Council of the Association for Computing Machinery. According to Consumer Reports, the cybersecurity expert had some harsh words for Sony, saying that the company knew the PSN's defenses were outdated for months prior to the attack, which occurred from April 17 to 19.

Spafford testified security experts discovered discussions on forums that talked about how the PSN's security was lacking. He said that the threads revealed that the network was using old versions of the Apache Web server software, which "was unpatched and had no firewall installed." He also testified that two to three months before the attack, the vulnerability was reported "in an open forum monitored by Sony employees," but the company took no action.

"If Dr. Spafford's assessment is accurate, it's inexcusable that Sony not only ran obsolete software on servers containing confidential data, but also that the company continued to do so after this information was publicly disclosed," said Consumer Reports technology editor Jeff Fox.

As of press time, US Sony reps had not responded to requests for comments on Dr. Spafford's testimony. However, in its letter to Congress, the company outlined a number of measures it had taken to beef up security, including moving its servers to a new facility, adding additional firewalls, enhancing data encryption and protection, and increasing automated software monitoring. The company has also hired three outside data security firms to help with its ongoing investigation of the attack, which the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Homeland Security are assisting in.

[UPDATE] Video of Dr. Spafford's testimony is now online, and his full quote on the PSN break-in is as follows (begins around the 55' mark):

"On a few of the security mailing lists that I read, there were discussions that individuals who work in security and participate in the Sony Network had discovered several months ago, while they were examining the protocols on the Sony Network to examine how the games worked, they had discovered that the [PlayStation] Network servers were hosted on Apache Web servers--that's that form of software. But they were running on very old versions of Apache software that were unpatched and had no firewall installed, and so these were potentially vulnerable. They had reported these in an open forum that was monitored by Sony employees, but had seen no response and no change or update to the software. … [And] that was two to three months from when the break-ins occurred."

The cybersecurity expert also said that the Sony intrusion alone compromised 100 million accounts both on the PSN and its Qriocity service. He also cited the total cost of the breach to Sony, credit card companies, and other outfits, which the Ponemon Institute estimated as being $24 billion, although he put the figure at $21 billion.

Spafford also cited postings in credit-card theft forums in which thieves of such information complained that the PSN breach was so great that it was depressing the price of such information by a "factor of five or 10" on the black market.

He also said that cybersecurity breach notification laws were good, but only "after the fact." The problem, according to Spafford, was that law enforcement was not adequately equipped to deal with the problem. He also said that most companies were not equipped with enough security measures because "investing in security measures affects the bottom line. They don't understand the risks involved by not investing in security. … So when they are hit, they pass that cost along to their customers, and to the rest of society."

Spafford thinks the solution is to limit the amount of data kept by companies such as Sony and to "age the data" so it expires after a certain time.
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http://www.gamespot.com/news/6312333.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6312333

LULz, sony. You fail so much.
 
I wonder what punishment Sony will face in the EU.

EU loves to sue the shit out of big companies, remember the lawsuit against Microsoft?

I hope they do it, and that I get some dough out of it!
 
They should absolutely be held accountable and have to pay for damages for what has happened. There are a load of people here it seems who aren't that bothered by the fact Sony was hugely negligent in looking after your information. "I'll just keep an eye out". Christ...why should you have to do that, they put you in this position and you just take it. You need to be more assertive in this world I'm afraid. We've seen a couple reports of how little they invested in security and how reckless they were with your information, surely that should be enough to get your blood pressure up a few bars!?

The 30 days free Playstation plus thing they offered is embarrassing. I have Sony mp3 players and televisions, I don't have a problem with the company or the PS3. I always held a flame for it and its technology when everyone was spitting on it about 2 years ago. What I do have a problem with is any company being negligent with personal details when you entrust them with these things. It shows a complete disregard or appreciation of how important they are to the individual who is ultimately a customer. I would happily reciprocate that relationship by wanting anything to do with them.
 
Hectic Glenn said:
They should absolutely be held accountable and have to pay for damages for what has happened. There are a load of people here it seems who aren't that bothered by the fact Sony was hugely negligent in looking after your information. "I'll just keep an eye out". Christ...why should you have to do that, they put you in this position and you just take it. You need to be more assertive in this world I'm afraid. We've seen a couple reports of how little they invested in security and how reckless they were with your information, surely that should be enough to get your blood pressure up a few bars!?
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Why should I let all of this make me upset and stressed out? Not worth it mate. So they got my name and address and such, I don't really care, life goes on.
 
Mogi67 said:
Why should I let all of this make me upset and stressed out? Not worth it mate. So they got my name and address and such, I don't really care, life goes on.
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this, in fact the wait makes me want to play the system even more. Its almost as bad as people fearing about getting cancer. guess what? we're all gunna get cancer at some point, its like a 50/50 chance bad shit is going to happen to you. in fact just a few days ago some more credit card info of mine was stolen through a local retailer. it is just life and some things are just annoying and some people don't give a shit but try running a free network for 100 million people. complaining about it is like people complaining hardcore about the US government. Try taking care of 300+ million people and those overseas while trying to keep everyone happy. its ****ing impossible. I'm sure if some fanboys got crazy enough Microsoft's servers would crash too and credit card info would have been stolen. (although in reality it would take a long time for those to hack M$ servers) but yeah totally agree with you Mogi
 
It's obvious now that they know about as much about security as they know about satisfying their customers. They've been treating them all like thieves and scoundrels for so long that I have absolutely zero sympathy for Sony now that they've found one.
 
Warped said:
this, in fact the wait makes me want to play the system even more. Its almost as bad as people fearing about getting cancer. guess what? we're all gunna get cancer at some point, its like a 50/50 chance bad shit is going to happen to you. in fact just a few days ago some more credit card info of mine was stolen through a local retailer. it is just life and some things are just annoying and some people don't give a shit but try running a free network for 100 million people. complaining about it is like people complaining hardcore about the US government. Try taking care of 300+ million people and those overseas while trying to keep everyone happy. its ****ing impossible. I'm sure if some fanboys got crazy enough Microsoft's servers would crash too and credit card info would have been stolen. (although in reality it would take a long time for those to hack M$ servers) but yeah totally agree with you Mogi
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Hey man, I just want to play my games online. Every corporation can go **** themselves, Sony included, but I'm not going to let their bullshit give me high blood pressure and ruin my day. You can have my credit card info if you want, let's smoke a doob and play Blur
 
Guys it should get you angry. Years down the road you may try and get a loan for something. Could be a car, house or college loan. When you stroll into a bank the bank is going to find your credit rating as piss poor. Then your going to have an "AH HA" moment as you remember that incident that occurred with Sony in 2011.

Sony has done absolutely nothing to protect your information. On top of all this, have you people ever thought who this is benefiting? It's helping the worst kinds of people in the world. It's the people who can't even flinch when they see a cop car or hear an ambulance because they think it's for them. Most of all it's probably benefiting people who just want to kill people who are not in their views. It's the people who are in terrorist groups. It's the people who just may use the money they stole to perform a terrorist attack to kill people, your family, or you even. It's also the people who want the murder weapon to be traced back to the credit card holder being you.

Really if you think I'm being far fetched then you have your head in the sand.

*If they need verification that they are the cc account holder, they have your personal info as well. They can tell them that you were born this date, etc.
 
hool10 said:
Guys it should get you angry. Years down the road...
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Seriously, it will not take years for you to find out that your credit is getting ****ed. That will take no time at all. Just mind your statements every month. If anything is too awry you will be notified. Some criminals were skimming ATM info on a few banks in my area a few years back. The night after they skimmed mine from a device they slid onto an ATM at my bank's branch I tried to get gas and the card was denied and already locked down. I come to find out that some folks in Milan, Italy were trying to get large sums from my account. The bank took care of everything and I have been fine ever since and you will find most CC companies will act in the same way if there are strange charges that just appear on your monthly statement. The big companies will almost always help you because they want to keep your business, but this is no reason to get lax about your personal finances.

I am with most of you--I just want the frigging PSN back online. All of this BS is really making everyone annoyed...and not at Sony.
 
VictimOfScience said:
Seriously, it will not take years for you to find out that your credit is getting ****ed. That will take no time at all. Just mind your statements every month. If anything is too awry you will be notified. Some criminals were skimming ATM info on a few banks in my area a few years back. The night after they skimmed mine from a device they slid onto an ATM at my bank's branch I tried to get gas and the card was denied and already locked down. I come to find out that some folks in Milan, Italy were trying to get large sums from my account. The bank took care of everything and I have been fine ever since and you will find most CC companies will act in the same way if there are strange charges that just appear on your monthly statement. The big companies will almost always help you because they want to keep your business, but this is no reason to get lax about your personal finances.

I am with most of you--I just want the frigging PSN back online. All of this BS is really making everyone annoyed...and not at Sony.
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He's not talking about transactions on your credit card, but you life credit rating which is affected when someone using your name takes out credit and doesn't pay it back. This could possibly take years before you'd know anything about it. Anybody who is saying Sony should stop being given a hard time about this really is naive as ****.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, it doesnt matter who takes your credit, it's all down to wether the person who's name is attached to to the credit that has been taken actually pays it off that month. So if someone overseas takes out credit in your name, and YOU fail to pay it off that month, then your rating drops?

That's all your credit rating really boils down to; your ability to pay, not even necessarily in full, credit off at the end of each month, even if it's just the minimum amount. Which is why I always suggest to fellow students that once they finish Uni and get a job, get a credit card asap and pay it off each month. Just dont become dependant on it. Pay it off religiously, with..out..fail.

Simple rule; if you know you cant afford it, dont buy it. End of story. ''Oh but I want a new TV.'' Err, no, wait till you can afford it.

Credit rating is the only reason I have my credit card. I use it to buy fuel and nothing else. Pay it off each month in full. You keep a great rating that way. And the only reason I want that rating is to get a good mortgage.

And like I think I said before; if you're not watching your credit cards and bank accounts like a hawk regardless of the PSN hacking, then you're a fool.
 
stemot said:
He's not talking about transactions on your credit card, but you life credit rating which is affected when someone using your name takes out credit and doesn't pay it back. This could possibly take years before you'd know anything about it. Anybody who is saying Sony should stop being given a hard time about this really is naive as ****.
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Yup that is what I was talking about. Even if you wanted to go with another cc company because they had lower rates your going to be screwed. One of the things cc companies look at is if you have a history of cc fraud among other things. They will see your account as more of a risk because you were a victim of cc fraud.
 
Dynasty said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, it doesnt matter who takes your credit, it's all down to wether the person who's name is attached to to the credit that has been taken actually pays it off that month. So if someone overseas takes out credit in your name, and YOU fail to pay it off that month, then your rating drops?

That's all your credit rating really boils down to; your ability to pay, not even necessarily in full, credit off at the end of each month, even if it's just the minimum amount. Which is why I always suggest to fellow students that once they finish Uni and get a job, get a credit card asap and pay it off each month. Just dont become dependant on it. Pay it off religiously, with..out..fail.

Simple rule; if you know you cant afford it, dont buy it. End of story. ''Oh but I want a new TV.'' Err, no, wait till you can afford it.

Credit rating is the only reason I have my credit card. I use it to buy fuel and nothing else. Pay it off each month in full. You keep a great rating that way. And the only reason I want that rating is to get a good mortgage.

And like I think I said before; if you're not watching your credit cards and bank accounts like a hawk regardless of the PSN hacking, then you're a fool.
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You're clearly not understanding. If someone uses your details to take out a Loan say, they don't have to use the real address, just your name. They take out this hypothetical £5,000 loan and never pay it off. You don't know anything about it because they gave a different address along with your name and DoB etc, they get the reminders and ignore them. You would never see the repercussions of their actions until you tried to get credit again and were flat out refused or had the bailiffs knocking in your door.

It's clear anyone defending Sony on this matter by saying "oh, anybody can have my details I don't care, I'll just keep watching my statement" really has no clue how easy it is to use these details illegally.
 
So basically, "it's only a problem if you don't pay off what they steal."

Haha, okay.
 
Bad^Hat said:
So basically, "it's only a problem if you don't pay off what they steal."

Haha, okay.
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So basically you misunderstood the issue. Its a problem when you have debt on your name that you don't know about, because you didn't cause it.
 
You would not have to pay off the debt though if you dispute it as cc fraud and it is found as fraud. Remember that banks and cc companies that are reputable, and I'm talking about the USA, are FDIC insured.
 
Dynasty said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, it doesnt matter who takes your credit, it's all down to wether the person who's name is attached to to the credit that has been taken actually pays it off that month. So if someone overseas takes out credit in your name, and YOU fail to pay it off that month, then your rating drops?

That's all your credit rating really boils down to; your ability to pay, not even necessarily in full, credit off at the end of each month, even if it's just the minimum amount. Which is why I always suggest to fellow students that once they finish Uni and get a job, get a credit card asap and pay it off each month. Just dont become dependant on it. Pay it off religiously, with..out..fail.

Simple rule; if you know you cant afford it, dont buy it. End of story. ''Oh but I want a new TV.'' Err, no, wait till you can afford it.

Credit rating is the only reason I have my credit card. I use it to buy fuel and nothing else. Pay it off each month in full. You keep a great rating that way. And the only reason I want that rating is to get a good mortgage.

And like I think I said before; if you're not watching your credit cards and bank accounts like a hawk regardless of the PSN hacking, then you're a fool.
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Students come to you for financial advice? :S

Actually, even somebody taking credit and paying it back in your name is a still a very bad thing. One of the things lenders look at is how much you can already borrow (e.g how many cards you have) as well as things like how you utilise your credit.

For example, if I have 10 credit cards with a £10k limit on each one, I have already borrowed £100k potential pounds, even if the balance on the cards is nil. That isn't going to do me any favours when looking to apply for more credit.

A mortgage is a completely different kettle of fish, a lot of it depends on your earnings - this is where most people fall down. A mortgage isn't difficult to get at all if you fill all of the criteria, this is mostly because the loan is secured against an asset (the house).

One of the best ways to build your credit rating is (apparently) with a contract mobile phone.
 
ps3_4koma.png
 
I heard Sony is willing to put out a reward now to catch the intruder(s)
 
Krynn72 said:
So basically you misunderstood the issue. Its a problem when you have debt on your name that you don't know about, because you didn't cause it.
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I was trying to interpret whatever Dynasty was trying to say in his post. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Never owned a credit card in my life though, so I'm probably still wrong. :)
 
This is pretty damn silly now, about to be a month soon with no end in sight.... *sigh*
 
With that kind of timeline, maybe they're rebuilding PSN from scratch?
 
joule said:
Reports from multiple sources are citing the 31st of May.
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Some people are suggesting that the use of the word 'fully' in the press release implies that a limited version of PSN might go online earlier so people can at least play games. This is all guesswork of course.

Has Valve reacted to the whole PSN outage btw? I find it very ironic that the problems started during the week of Portal 2's release.
 
Damn. The downtime is going to be terrible for Brink's release. Such a multiplayer driven game isn't going to be seeing many PS3 version sales due to this.
 
I'm starting to feel bad for Sony. I never thought I'd say that. :(
 
Same. Much as I hate blops and all that jazz, I can't knock people for missing out on their pastime.
 
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