realism... what's the point?

[clarionhaze]

lately, with the release of hl2 pending, there has been a lot of discussion about the realism of the game. mainly people seem to be pointing out minute issues such as "ladder climbing," "tree destroying," and other so-called glitches in the game. but the thought that keeps me awake at this moment (2:07 central standard (5+ beers in my belly)) is at what point does realism in a game become too much?

i'm sure we've all played games where the realism was overwhelming. i'm not talking about the way blood comes out of a dead body or anything like that... but should climbing up a ladder really take the same amount of time it takes in real life? the best games i have played find a comfortable mix of the two. the best developers know not to compromise game play for realism.

so my question to you guys is the following. what have you seen in previous games, mainly in hl1, that was just too realistic to really flow with the game? also; what things could be more realistic and add substance to the game?

for instance, not looking for a flame here, but in ut2003 i like double jumping and the such but i really hate the amount of air control they give you... i mean you can't just will yourself to fly left in mid-air. also in hl1 you'd have to be a god to climb a ladder that fast... then again no-one wants to be sniped off a ladder.

so what do you guys think?

 

[WhiteBoy]

I like the balance of the 2 in half life, but those who like the "bunny hoping," all I have I had to say is, it was un avoidable in the original, so they are removing that horrible aspect of the game.

 

[redundant]

most games right now have it real enough. the level in hl1 was spot on imo. and things like bunny hopping are good - they make you feel like a pro when you first learn to do it, and they give you a reason to flame n00bs later. fun for all!

 

[WhiteBoy]

most games right now have it real enough. the level in hl1 was spot on imo. and things like bunny hopping are good - they make you feel like a pro when you first learn to do it, and they give you a reason to flame n00bs later. fun for all!

I would rather the bunny hoping to be non-existant in the first places. Many of the "noobs" out there are so thick skulled that even well thought of insult would just go in one ear and out the other.

 

[jameth]

I don't particually think 'bunny hopping' should be in HL2 (bunny hopping as in gaining insane ammounts of speed)

However, I love air movement. Being able to turn in mid air makes trick jumping available. In Half-Life 1 at the moment, the air speed is capped to 1.7x so you can never truely 'bunny hop'

Air movement can make or break a game for me. Personally I hate games like BF1942 or FarCry (the demo) where it feels like you have no control when jumping (feels like you're jumping on the moon in the FarCry demo).

 

[jet jaguar]

I liked the emp jumping in TFC. It was unrealistic but it showed how creative and skilled people could be while improvising new tactics.

 

[Ashbery76]

Realism is very important factor if you want to be immersed into a believable world or scenario.The truly great films have always got realism factored into them, games should follow this method..

 

[Kyorisu]

A mix of Realism is needed, but not all games need it i.e. Final Fantasy. In Half-Life your battling aliens on Earth is that real? no, and you can perform an amazing amount of acrobatic feats is that real? no, yet there is still that mix of Realism; Physics in Hl2, In HL1 a headshot with a magnum would kill most aliens/humans and many more things.

I probably sound stupid but if all games where Realistic all my favs like; Freespace, Freelancer, HL, Baldurers Gate, Final Fantasy, Future Cop L.A.P.D, AVP, Halo, Myst, blah, blah, blah and blah would utterly suck.

 

[KagePrototype]

Realism should really only be used for immersive purposes -- and even then, you don't need it. If you're trying to create a game with characters that could exist IRL, then you want some form of realism for the game to keep things grounded enough, so it's all beleivable. It goes too far when realism is more important than creating fun gameplay.

 

[[Dragoon]]

A certain level of realism helps you to get into the game more. Gives you a certain connection to the characters. Also, more realism opens new doors - such as the addition of better physics in Half Life 2 - Now we can drop giant shipping containers on Combine, or block a door with debris, and so on.

If they, for instance, added more realistic water, we could do all kinds of interesting things. Or the ability to alter the terrain, so you could dig holes and stuff. Wouldn't it be cool to play a WW2 mod, and be able to pull out a shovel and dig yourself a good sniper position?

 

[ferd]

bunny hoping owns

 

[Antic2]

I was going to post on this myself. I'm waiting for a game which give you enough realism (in terms of physics & AI) to make a game really engage your imagination and allow you to apply real-world problem solving using practically anything in your environment. Maybe HL2 goes a bit towards that goal?

Each game has it's own feel, and the level of realism should reflect that, but I'm always dissatisfied with the options available for what you can actually *do* in a game. I'm so sick of running around shooting baddies and pushing buttons to get to the next level so I can shoot bigger baddies and push more buttons!

At the moment, the best RPGs let you wander around fulfilling quests etc. by killing monsters, buying stuff and improving your skills with which you can kill more monsters. Surely this get boring after a few hours, no matter how interesting the storyline is.

The best action games out there, like Far Cry, bore me within an hour or two. Yes the gfx are great (love the foliage), the physics are interesting but mostly useless in the game, and basically you just get to kill lots of baddies and follow a linear storyline.

To me, the point of applying a new level of realism - ie. physics - is to open up the gameplay so that we can actually do things we previously couldn't do in a game, and be *less constrained* by the game itself. Being able to roll a barrel down a hill (which was set up there for you to do exactly that) adds very little to the realism of the game.

To me, more realism means being more able to do what you would normally be able to do in the real world. Expanding your options, and feeling more like you are in control, not just following whatever the "game plan" is.

Morrowind lets you bribe people, join different camps, trade and build a reputation while getting on with the game... Hitman lets you put on someone else's clothes to blend in with your enemies... Deus Ex and Thief let you hide and use various tactics to get around your enemies... Ultima Online lets you engage in a kind of social and cultural experience while having your little adventures. HalfLife2 will let you use physics to blat your enemies in hopefully rather entertaining ways.

I'd love to see a game which combines all these aspects of "realism"... it would be a huge task I'm sure, but hopefully we'll get there one day!

 

[Dench]

BUNNY HOPPING!!!! not Bunny Hoping!

 

[Wesisapie]

5+ beers (light i'm guessing), what a tough nut.

 

[CrazyHarij]

non-realism.. what's the point?

 

[Tarkus]

sorry, just checking my sig

 

[joule]

If a game is 100% realistic, then it surely wouldn't be fun at all because...well...reality isn't fun. That's why there's VIDEO GAMES! YAY!

 

[PvtRyan]

Valve took the right decisions, at least for my taste. It's realistic enough to be a believable world, but you're not bored with needless realism. Half-Life gameplay had a wonderful pace, you were always on the edge of your seat but without having ridiculous speed, realism will only slow this down.
If you want realistic climbing etc play Raven Shield, it fits in games like that, it doesn't in HL(2).

 

[Bad^Hat]

Haha he thort it woz Sireea! LAWLSz!111

Um...

Yeah, we were just chatting about this in IRC. While I find games like Rainbow Six fun, it's only because the realism is APPROPRIATE there. Half-Life is a fast-paced action FPS, and at no point in the original did I stop and think "hey, this isn't realistic enough". It is just as realistic as it needs to be, same with HL2.

Edit - Oh, about the trees not being destructable, go play Midtown Madness 2 and try complaining again ^_^

 

[Deljron]

nice post Antic2, I agree.

 

[Tinneth]

Games will become to realistic when you have to 'jack-in' Matrix style to play games.

 

[ailevation]

:naughty: The reason why game developers want to make games most realistic as possible is because it simply gives the player a feel for he/she is actually in the game and that makes it more interesting.

 

[Zynaps]

Bunny Hopping is the act of jumping up and down to avoid getting hit.
Strafe Jumping is about of picking up speed.

Two different things, just tought I'd clarify

 

[Moejoe]

As many people said before, the reason games don't have realism is because they are games. To me, an escape from reality. yeah realistic physics and that are cool, but there's gotta be a limit...what next? remembering to press a button to breathe? if you want so much realism, just go outside and play commandos or something.

 

[Sai]

it's obvious that the realism in hl2 will come from the presentation, as in the reactions of the npc's, a.i., voice acting, facial expressions, that's that realistic part of hl2, but it baffles me when people want realism in games in general, it really won't be very fun, just a thousand times more frustrating

 

[Antic2]

As many people said before, the reason games don't have realism is because they are games. To me, an escape from reality. yeah realistic physics and that are cool, but there's gotta be a limit...what next? remembering to press a button to breathe? if you want so much realism, just go outside and play commandos or something.

True, there's this strange fascination with simulating a real-world experince on the pooter... it's been there since the dawn of games, not just with the "3D" genre of course.

Classic text-only adventure games also tried to allow for as much freedom and realism as possible in what you could do.

Still.... maybe we just need more real-life games. The Colluseum is no more... maybe, deep in the firey blood we inherited from our ancient predecessors, we miss the great games of deadly skill and fury.

We each imagine ourselves a hero... it's part game, part fantasy, part fun. We want the game to test us, the fun to make us laugh, and the fantasy to fire our imagination for a couple of hours.

We can't all be a movie star or intrepid explorer.... but in each of us lurks a Gordon Freeman waiting to get out... an average guy who just might save the world. So hey, why not make the experience as real as possible!

 

[Sai]

if you had a game simulating all the aspects real life, that product would just be a hypocracy to its own genre of entertainment

 

[Deljron]

Be unrealistic in a world that has a real feel

 

[Antic2]

if you had a game simulating all the aspects real life, that product would just be a hypocracy to its own genre of entertainment

Particularly if you were married....

 

[Moejoe]

Be unrealistic in a world that has a real feel

Werd, yo. that's a great way to put it.

 

[SubForce]

I believe that realism has its place depending on the game. For instance, in DM bunny hopping, rocket jump, et al., is part of the game and suits the atmosphere just fine.

However, I don't think this same characteristic applies to say DoD type games where it is about team play. In this case, IMO, bunny hopping is just lame and doesnt show a persons actual ability to coordinate and carry out a good game with skill.

Again, this is all dependant on the mod being played. Maybe a better solution is to turn this kind of play over to the servers and let them decide how the game will be played out. This way people can go to the server that best suits them.

 

[Darkknighttt]

ya there shouldnt be that much realism in DOD

 

[Dougy]

I always keep this little bit of advice in my book of online witty retorts (ive nearly filled the first page!)


If you want realism, join the army.

 

[iamaelephant]

I hate realistic games. Every f*cking developer is trying to make this super-realistic game and it's never fun. It pisses me off :angry:

Thats why I love TFC, Vice City and Half Life. Realism was never a factor in any of those games, and they all kick ass.

 

[Polykarbon]

Realism is great if a game demands it. If the core gameplay elements demand realstic physics, gun shots, etc...then it will usually make the game better.

IE, you don't want Mario 64 to have fireballs with headshots...usually .

 

[Delgarto]

graphics?...what's the point.
sound?...what's the point.
gameplay?...what's the point.
realism?...what's the point.

The point is, the better they get, the better you're immersed. It's like saying using your eyes?...what's the point? And equally as stupid.

 

[NeLi]

I'd love having a 100% realistic game. However, it doesn't have to be set in this world. It could be set in the HL world for example...With striders and stuff.

Of course, then, a strider wouldn't be able to take as much punishment, but the same applies to you.

Ah, what the hell am I talking about...Jesus, I need to sleep.

 

[Nasum]

If a game was 100% realistic then you could maybe take 1 or 2 bullet wounds throught the entire game then you'd have to spend months recuperating.

Also if you got hit in face you would be completely dead and wouldnt be able to play anymore.

Realism is bad, there is nothing wrong with doing wild jumps in video games. I hate it when a game makes you feel like you have lead in your computer-generated boots.

 

[Gordon'sFreeman]

I would rather the bunny hoping to be non-existant in the first places. Many of the "noobs" out there are so thick skulled that even well thought of insult would just go in one ear and out the other.

hahaha its so true, its a miracle that they actually got the thing to run on their computers.

 

[Asus]

ya there shouldnt be that much realism in DOD

DoD did a great job with their gameplay and realism IMO.
It is a bit slow playing compared to other games but it is very high on strategy, skill and teamwork. Plays out very nice.
It's just that type of game and also fits well with WW2.
It has a nice flow too since you respawn as reinforcements.

I agree, realism can go over the top if it limits the player. I tried playing FarCry multiplayer and that is what I felt. Very limited and what was the point. lol
I liked FarCry single Player. The style of the gameplay was much different than others. Explore and being careful. Observing the environment.