Religion And Common sense

[Lil' Timmy]

hey, coolio i hope i've been civil enough, i'll be better if not

btw, not that i'm an expert, but i thought i could help out your understanding of evolution a bit. you're sorta describing 'acquired traits' which has been shown to be false. instead a fairly good description of your cows (imho ) would be:

1) cattle graze happily graze in the meadows. due to naturally occuring slight genetic variation, some of these cows have longer hair, some have shorter hair. some have longer legs, some shorte legs, some bigger horns, some smaller, and so on..

2) :O most of the cattles food has disappeared due to a plant virus! some the hungry cattle, in search of food, climb into the nearby rocky hills. now due to that natural genetic variation i mentioned, some of these individuals have somewhat tougher hooves than others.

3) because the tough hooves allow certain individuals to climb better/longer/to more places than others, these individuals become better fed, and remain in better shape. because of this, they are generally more fit, and able to raise healthy young better. (for simplicity's sake, we'll ignore the other selective advantages from things like thicker coats..)

4) those offspring of course can inherit their parents 'tough-hoof' genes, and they benefit from the same advantages over their piers as their parents did.

5) this process of "microevolution" would continue as long as there is a selective advantage to having tougher hooves. and given enough time could result in a population of hill-cattle (we'll call 'em goats ) that are genetically distinct enough from the original meadow population that they can no longer reproduce with meadow cattle to produce viable offspring.

it's heavily simplified, but a passable description given the situation. any questions?

 

[crabcakes66]

wow dude that's not cool...

and if you're going to call someone names, at least spell the name right :\

if i had a nickel for everytime somone attacked my spelling.....

 

[FortisVir]

same with you, you belive your right in every way don't you. you think were narrow minded and we think your narrow minded. Nuf said.

I like how you insult my personal character because you fail to get your point across. I posted this a couple pages back:

Maybe there is a God, I don't know, I am not 100% sure, and I admit that.

Admitting that they may be wrong is something I have hardly ever seen Christians do.

Please go ahead, continue to believe that a global flood would be possible, and that macro-evolution would be observable in a laboratory situation. Also, if you want to discuss the theory of evolution, it doesn't hurt to understand what it is, instead of throwing your own ideas in.

I may be wrong, but I always keep an open mind. One person examines the evidence, and one person ignores it. Who is being close minded? Also, quoting the ark's size doesn't prove anything.

 

[Maskirovka]

if i had a nickel for everytime somone attacked my spelling.....

ignore the spelling remark and you were still an ass for putting him on ignore.

if i had a nickel for every time someone claimed they put someone on ignore with no way to prove they actually did... :imu: :imu: :imu:

 

[Lil' Timmy]

damnit guys stop flaming! don't get this thread closed just as i finally have the less informed ones wriggling in the crushing grasp of my inescapable logic!

 

[Maskirovka]

sorry...i was just rejecting his post...he just comes in after not having posted for several pages (if ever at all) and calls someone crazy and tells us about how he put them on ignore...pretty lame to do that. i've been pretty civil other than that :\

 

[Lucifer Crass]

hey, coolio i hope i've been civil enough, i'll be better if not

btw, not that i'm an expert, but i thought i could help out your understanding of evolution a bit. you're sorta describing 'acquired traits' which has been shown to be false. instead a fairly good description of your cows (imho ) would be:

1) cattle graze happily graze in the meadows. due to naturally occuring slight genetic variation, some of these cows have longer hair, some have shorter hair. some have longer legs, some shorte legs, some bigger horns, some smaller, and so on..

2) :O most of the cattles food has disappeared due to a plant virus! some the hungry cattle, in search of food, climb into the nearby rocky hills. now due to that natural genetic variation i mentioned, some of these individuals have somewhat tougher hooves than others.

3) because the tough hooves allow certain individuals to climb better/longer/to more places than others, these individuals become better fed, and remain in better shape. because of this, they are generally more fit, and able to raise healthy young better. (for simplicity's sake, we'll ignore the other selective advantages from things like thicker coats..)

4) those offspring of course can inherit their parents 'tough-hoof' genes, and they benefit from the same advantages over their piers as their parents did.

5) this process of "microevolution" would continue as long as there is a selective advantage to having tougher hooves. and given enough time could result in a population of hill-cattle (we'll call 'em goats ) that are genetically distinct enough from the original meadow population that they can no longer reproduce with meadow cattle to produce viable offspring.

it's heavily simplified, but a passable description given the situation. any questions?

AHH, Thats it!! Thanks

:thumbs:

 

[clarky003]

I believe that whatever you believe is the truth... You believe in god, you go to heaven. You don't believe in god, you go wherever it is you do believe in. I personally choose to believe that.

Oh and all you athiests who are gonna say "I don't believe in anything" Well considering you can't imagine total nothingness, then you do believe in something. In which case it works itself out.

thinking outside the box for a second (my human mind) which is an odd concept,

what we believe in doesnt really matter in this reality (although it gives us comfort and structure),,, because it is governed by a Universal truth, and it is always the same 1 truth for everything weither we exist or not.

'a tree falls in a forest, no one is around to hear it, did it make a sound? I know the tree fell because i walked past and found it splintered at the trunk resting on the ground'

its a crude example but basically. trying to comprehend the fact , and denie the tree made a sound is ridiculous, of course it did. my point... with or without us, that tree still distrubed the air resulting in what we pick up as sound. weither we are there or not doesnt make a difference to anything else, only to us

 

[mchammer75040]

Oh and all you athiests who are gonna say "I don't believe in anything" Well considering you can't imagine total nothingness, then you do believe in something. In which case it works itself out.

We cease to function, so there really isnt any "nothingness" to imagine.

 

[A2597]

Why can't you see that what I posted IS what evolution is?!?

Your saying an ameba (OK, I butchered that one) turned into a fish, a fish into a frog, a frog into another reptile, and so fourth and so one until we have the ecosystem today (Don't deny this one, because that IS what you are saying)

Yet, at the same time, you refuse that two animals of the same species can give birth to a different or new species.

I find THAT astounding.
OK Maskirovka, I asked you to please stop pulling the grammer card, but wouldn't listen.

For the record, you never capotalize "I" in your sentances. whoops. Looks like your guilty too.

(Seriously, stop complainging about others spelling/grammer. Yes it can be destraction, but it makes you appear a little anal retentive. (

just a FYI.

 

[A2597]

sorry...i was just rejecting his post...he just comes in after not having posted for several pages (if ever at all) and calls someone crazy and tells us about how he put them on ignore...pretty lame to do that. i've been pretty civil other than that :\

Heh, if someone wants to put my on ignore, fine by me. I don't really care. his loss when I contact gabe with a good question...or something. )

 

[Non-Sequitur]

We cease to function, so there really isnt any "nothingness" to imagine.

Imagining that nothingness is like trying to imagine what it was like before you were born. OBLIVION.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

Why can't you see that what I posted IS what evolution is?!?

Your saying an ameba (OK, I butchered that one) turned into a fish, a fish into a frog, a frog into another reptile, and so fourth and so one until we have the ecosystem today (Don't deny this one, because that IS what you are saying)

I think he's actually saying "go and read up on evolution, and then come back with some facts, not this stuff you're making up".

 

[A2597]

I may be wrong, but I always keep an open mind. One person examines the evidence, and one person ignores it. Who is being close minded? Also, quoting the ark's size doesn't prove anything.

Or, taken in a different way:
One person examines the evidence, and comes to conclusion we eveolved
Another examines it and comes to the conclusion we were created
And a third examines it, says f*ck it, and makes up something else.


I'm #2. Most here appear to be #1

and a few are #3

You guys just seem uncapable of relizing, and are not even willing to admit, that I HAVE looked into evolution, and found it to be utterly rediculous, and that the same evidece you see as proving evolution, can also be seen as proving the existance of God.

I can accept that you looked into religion and refute it, so why can you not accept that I have looked into evolution and disagree with it?

(Whoops, now there is a typo to remember, LMAO)

 

[A2597]

I have man, looking at the links, all I'm doing is showing that 1 year or 5 million, it makes no difference.

you guys keep falling back on the peppered moth as being proof for evolution. It changed COLORS PEOPLE. Nothing else. Other then the color of the scales on it's wings it is exactly the same.

same can be seen in humans for peats sake. A few generations of people living in Africa will result in darker skinned offspring, but they are still 100% human. That is evidence to support micro-evolution, not macro evolution.

 

[Non-Sequitur]

You guys just seem uncapable of relizing, and are not even willing to admit, that I HAVE looked into evolution, and found it to be utterly rediculous

That's because, as you've repeatedly demonstrated, you didn't comprehend anything you read.

why can you not accept that I have looked into religion and disagree with it?

???
Now you disagree with religion? :stare:

 

[clarky003]

, dont you think this is all a bit redundant?,,... we all need to search for sanity, weither it be believing the unprovable or believing facts, its nessesary to survive, why people need to make such a big deal of it is beyond me. lets just face the fact that the human race isnt as fantastic as we think it is, with our so called 'higher intelligence'. all the dumbass people who know how to screw others get on better in 'this world' than any truthful intelligent person. and then maybe we can all put our feet back on the ground. and accept that no matter what we believe in we all reach the same fate. its grim, but its a fact.

but why in this world waste your time believing in an afterlife or something unprovable? when you have limited time to be exploring and figuring out this reality.. people daydream too much

 

[MorningStar]

I didn't bother reading any of this because all of these threads turn out the same, a few enlightened Servants of God trying to convey God's good news to braindead degenerates who would rather waller in the darkness of ingorance than face their God and take responsibility for their lives and actions.


The bottom line is this, my freinds. If you do not accept God's good Gift of Eternal Life, then you will be obliterated in the Lake of Fire. As it says in The Word of our God, our God is a consuming fire, and ye who would not partake in the fellowship which was offered to you by the Lord our God, ye will be consumed. As it it Wirtten, so shall it be. Take heed, therefore, and waste no more time on futile and petty rebelions, for the time is near when He shall return upon the clouds of the sky, and gather to Him His Elect and His Annointed.

Do you wish to be included in these, or left behind when the enemy is cast down to this Earth to bestow his furious rath upon mankind? God has given you the Way and the Life!! Why burn in the pits of fire when you can be raised up to Glory in Him?

You are running out of time!

 

[A2597]

making up? What have I made up? A goat giving birth to a cow?

OK, you guys would say it would take a few million of years for a goat to slowly change into a cow. Fact is, a goat will give birth to a goat, not a cow. nor will a goat ever give birth to a slightly different goat. the physical proportions will change, the color might change, but if you looked at it's genetic code, identicle.

You guys are so ready to believe that given enough times, a lizard could suddenly become a warm blooded creature, but you act like I'm a moron for saying such.....for a lizard to become warm blooded it would have to give birth to a new species of lizard, maybe 4 billion sets of offpsring or whaever. but so long as it is true that a creature can only give birth to another of its own kind, evolution cannot happen. When you deny that two cows can give birth to a duck, you deny that evolution is possible, because that is what evolution says is possible, given enough time.

 

[mchammer75040]

Or, taken in a different way:
One person examines the evidence, and comes to conclusion we eveolved
Another examines it and comes to the conclusion we were created
And a third examines it, says f*ck it, and makes up something else.

Or take it in a different way:
One person examines the evidence that a pig may be able to fly, and comes to the conclusion that it doesnt. While another examines the same evidence and somehow concludes that the pig can fly. This illustration is a good example that empirical evidence isnt relative, you cant just twist things to appeal to your religion.

and a few are #3

I guess your talkin about me right?

You guys just seem uncapable of relizing, and are not even willing to admit, that I HAVE looked into evolution, and found it to be utterly rediculous, and that the same evidece you see as proving evolution, can also be seen as proving the existance of God.

Not your god, and no from your arguments its obvious even I know more about evolution than you do!

 

[mchammer75040]

I didn't bother reading any of this because all of these threads turn out the same, a few enlightened Servants of God trying to convey God's good news to braindead degenerates who would rather waller in the darkness of ingorance than face their God and take responsibility for their lives and actions.


The bottom line is this, my freinds. If you do not accept God's good Gift of Eternal Life, then you will be obliterated in the Lake of Fire. As it says in The Word of our God, our God is a consuming fire, and ye who would not partake in the fellowship which was offered to you by the Lord our God, ye will be consumed. As it it Wirtten, so shall it be. Take heed, therefore, and waste no more time on futile and petty rebelions, for the time is near when He shall return upon the clouds of the sky, and gather to Him His Elect and His Annointed.

Do you wish to be included in these, or left behind when the enemy is cast down to this Earth to bestow his furious rath upon mankind? God has given you the Way and the Life!! Why burn in the pits of fire when you can be raised up to Glory in Him?

You are running out of time!

we have a comedian on the board!

 

[MorningStar]

Being cast down by the Lord our God is no laughing matter.

 

[mchammer75040]

Thanks for the insult!

 

[Maskirovka]

I didn't bother reading any of this because all of these threads turn out the same, a few enlightened Servants of God trying to convey God's good news to braindead degenerates who would rather waller in the darkness of ingorance than face their God and take responsibility for their lives and actions.


The bottom line is this, my freinds. If you do not accept God's good Gift of Eternal Life, then you will be obliterated in the Lake of Fire. As it says in The Word of our God, our God is a consuming fire, and ye who would not partake in the fellowship which was offered to you by the Lord our God, ye will be consumed. As it it Wirtten, so shall it be. Take heed, therefore, and waste no more time on futile and petty rebelions, for the time is near when He shall return upon the clouds of the sky, and gather to Him His Elect and His Annointed.

Do you wish to be included in these, or left behind when the enemy is cast down to this Earth to bestow his furious rath upon mankind? God has given you the Way and the Life!! Why burn in the pits of fire when you can be raised up to Glory in Him?

You are running out of time!

one post and that was it? you'd better stop wasting your time. i'm still waiting for a reason to believe in god other than the threat of eternal damnation. invisible threats just do not do the trick in converting me :\

 

[A2597]

Well, while MorningStar's post sounded....all to preachy IMO, he did hit one VERY important note.

To accept God means to accept that you are not in control, and if you are not in control, it means there are consequences for your actions....which few people are able to do.

Actually mchammer75040, I toss you in with a fourth lot.
the lot that has no clue what to believe, but wants to be in control, which rules out Religion.God. This leaves you searching for another answer, which you have yet to find to a satisfactory degree, and most likely never will.

 

[clarky003]

imperical evidence is what the world and living is based on, why cant some people except that, it confuses the hell outta me :O

 

[MorningStar]

mchammer, you are on a dangerous road. Using seemingly solid information to decieve His Elect is the tactics of the enemy, and to do the enemy's work is to suffer the same fate as he. Science is the ally of the enemy, and evolution is his mantra. I beseech you to re-examine your heart and find it in yourself to accept the Lord God into your life before you lead any more of His Elect off of the Narrow Path.

 

[clarky003]

woo I just noticed Im an Antlion, yay

 

[A2597]

Emperical evidence is only evidence which can be seen occuring in nature, or recreated in the lab. both of which, are impossible for macro evolution, so by it's own nature it is impossible for it to become true science.

 

[mchammer75040]

Actually mchammer75040, I toss you in with a fourth lot.
the lot that has no clue what to believe, but wants to be in control, which rules out Religion.God. This leaves you searching for another answer, which you have yet to find to a satisfactory degree, and most likely never will.

I know very well Im not in control at all. If your goin to stick me anywhere it should be in the first, since most in that category believe in a universe without a mover, the only thing that seperates me from them is I havent accepted evolution just yet.

 

[clarky003]

? there is no enemy, the only real enemy is ourselves. and our misguided 'beliefs', that cause war and distrust.

 

[mchammer75040]

mchammer, you are on a dangerous road. Using seemingly solid information to decieve His Elect is the tactics of the enemy, and to do the enemy's work is to suffer the same fate as he. Science is the ally of the enemy, and evolution is his mantra. I beseech you to re-examine your heart and find it in yourself to accept the Lord God into your life before you lead any more of His Elect off of the Narrow Path.

OOHHHHHH SCIENCE IS THE DEVILLLL turn off your comp then you zealot, THATS SCIENCE! Seriously go back and actually read what everyone has been posting, before coming on here and insulting me with your preaching.

 

[A2597]

MorningStar, he's more the victim of the public school system then anything else.

Science isn't the ally of Saten for pete's sake, it proves just how awsome God's creation is. Like most other things, Saten twist it any which way, such is the case of Evolution.

Your sounding a bit fanatical mate...ok, more then a little. It needs to be said true, but the way you are phrasing it is more likely to make them laugh at you, despite some of which you are saying is true.

What I want to know, is who you really are, few people sign up at a forum just to post in a theology debate, so that makes me think your someone that is already a member of this forum who just doesn't want their views known.

 

[MorningStar]

One can discern the true nature and purpose of the donctrine of evelution by examining it's origins. Darwin was a true enemy of God's Church, and conspired at all turns to defy His Devine Will. With this goal firmly planted in his mind, he was not a difficult subject for the enemy of God to win over in heart and soul. darwin became the tool of satan, and a leader in the fight against Truth in the modern world.


Science is the method of the great deceiver! Does the enemy deceive with petty arguments that are easily refuted? NO! He deceives through seemingly highly intelligent persuasions. What you would call "emperical evidence" is just a foothold he uses to drive the truth further from your minds. Recognize science for what it is before you are lost completely.

Remember, your time is short!!

 

[A2597]

I know very well Im not in control at all. If your goin to stick me anywhere it should be in the first, since most in that category believe in a universe without a mover, the only thing that seperates me from them is I havent accepted evolution just yet.

....
which puts you in the fourth catogory. You modern day Cpt. Ahab you.

 

[mchammer75040]

MorningStar, he's more the victim of the public school system then anything else.

Lol your gonna have to twist that to Im a victim of science and logic, cause I was Christian intil I was outta school then once I started studying philosophy more and actually questioning my position (which is something you know nothin of) I became atheist.

 

[mchammer75040]

....
which puts you in the fourth catogory. You modern day Cpt. Ahab you.

Sigh.........

 

[A2597]

MorningStar, I don't want to argue with you, as so few people are actually entering this debate on my side, but your out of line man.

Darwin was misled, no doubt about that, but I doubt very much his goal in life was to smite God, I find it more likely that he just got this whaky idea in his head and shared it.

Yes Saten uses complex arguments, ones that are not easily seen, but for petes sake man, Science is NOT the enemy, science is a GOOD thing. Some people just twist their findings to bend it in an incorrect method, or to what they assume it correct, but that is the persons fault, not science.

 

[A2597]

As stated before, whatever your parents raised you, it wasn't Christain.

 

[mchammer75040]

lol......wow Im just WHOA....