Should same sex marriages be legal?

[Pogrom]

the only vocal religion opposed to same sex marriageis the christian faith ...you dont see Hare Krishnas protesting on capital hill the evils of homosexuality ...although with their singing and tambourine playing they might actually make it fun

"hare hare hare krishna say no to gheys!" (no disrespect to members of the hare krishna faith is intended)

Actually the Dalai Llama is opposed to homosexuality.

He also considers sex during the day a capital Sin.

It's in his book. Read it.

 

[CptStern]

I think modern christianity has strayed from the teachings of jesus. I'll be massively flamed for this but ...IMHO the religion of Rastafarianism is the closest to jesus' teachings.

 

[Yakuza]

EDIT - you still haven't addressed mechagodzilla'a points.

How so?

 

[CptStern]

Actually the Dalai Llama is opposed to homosexuality.

He also considers sex during the day a capital Sin.

It's in his book. Read it.

hmmm didnt know that ...but are they vocal about not allowing same sex marriages?

 

[Pogrom]

How so?

Simple. You never replied to him. Just started replying to Apos.

 

[Pogrom]

hmmm didnt know that ...but are they vocal about not allowing same sex marriages?

I can't remember the exact quote, but it seemed pretty inflammatory.

Not to worry though. The majority of China is quite non-religious.

 

[Frank]

Sure it should be legal! Why not?

 

[CptStern]

I can't remember the exact quote, but it seemed pretty inflammatory.

Not to worry though. The majority of China is quite non-religious.

yay!!!!


wish I could say the same about the rest of the world ...but dont mind me ....I'm a bit intolerant lately because I've been having one too may Jehovah witnesses visiting my door.

"do you love jesus?"



<shakes fist at JW's>

 

[Yakuza]

Simple. You never replied to him. Just started replying to Apos.

I adressed his reasonable questions.

Originally Posted by mechagodzilla
Right. Do you eat lobster? Shrimp? Do you work weekends? Do you cut your beard into a curve?

If so, you're as much a "false christian" as the gays who are "distorting" christianity.

Outlaw shellfish! Leviticus says so!

Then I said.

Every single law must be kept in order to stand justified in Gods eyes. However it was the blood of Jesus that attones for the unrightous and now justifies us before God

 

[Pogrom]

yay!!!!


wish I could say the same about the rest of the world ...but dont mind me ....I'm a bit intolerant lately because I've been having one too may Jehovah witnesses visiting my door.

"do you love jesus?"



<shakes fist at JW's>

We have a fellow in Australia who is a real crazyboy. Not shame at all, funny as hell, and clever too. He's currently got a TV show where he examines world religions in a comical way.

He got annoyed at JWs waking him up on a Saturday morning. So he got on a plane, flew to Salt Lake City Utah (the home of JWs), and started door-knocking.

He was preaching the wonders of Evolution. The teachings of Darwin. It was hilarious watching people go crazy at him.

"Did you know your relatives were monkeys?"
"GO AWAY!"

"We believe that religion is just a bunch of lies. Wouldn't you hate to have wasted your life believing a lie?"
"This is inappropiate! Take us off your list!"

 

[Locust]

yeah go team

 

[Yakuza]

I think modern christianity has strayed from the teachings of jesus. I'll be massively flamed for this but ...IMHO the religion of Rastafarianism is the closest to jesus' teachings.

Doesn't surprise me.

 

[Pogrom]

I adressed his reasonable questions.



Then I said.

Do you work weekends? Do you obey EVERY single thing in the bible? no matter how obscure?

 

[f|uke]

Sure it should be legal! Why not?

Because people are stupid. Sweet Avatar

 

[Yakuza]

We have a fellow in Australia who is a real crazyboy. Not shame at all, funny as hell, and clever too. He's currently got a TV show where he examines world religions in a comical way.

He got annoyed at JWs waking him up on a Saturday morning. So he got on a plane, flew to Salt Lake City Utah (the home of JWs), and started door-knocking.

He was preaching the wonders of Evolution. The teachings of Darwin. It was hilarious watching people go crazy at him.

"Did you know your relatives were monkeys?"
"GO AWAY!"

"We believe that religion is just a bunch of lies. Wouldn't you hate to have wasted your life believing a lie?"
"This is inappropiate! Take us off your list!"

yeah who said idiots were only religious.

 

[Pogrom]

yeah who said idiots were only religious.

I don't recall hearing that anywhere.

Idiocy is a human failing - not a religious one.

 

[JimmehH]

Do you work weekends? Do you obey EVERY single thing in the bible? no matter how obscure?

"Why me, Lord? Where have I gone wrong? I've always been nice to
people. I don't drink or dance or swear. I've even kept Kosher just to
be on the safe side. I've done everything the bible says, even the
stuff that contradicts the other stuff."

I thought that was mildly appropriate and this thread definitely needs some humour.

 

[Yakuza]

Do you work weekends? Do you obey EVERY single thing in the bible? no matter how obscure?

No, I dont work on weekends. And No I dont live up to the perfect standard of God.

Read my posts and that means the ones I made to the other people aswell.

 

[Yakuza]

I don't recall hearing that anywhere.

Idiocy is a human failing - not a religious one.

read all of the posts. oh and we are stupid though.

 

[Yakuza]

Maybe you should argue that with one of the gay priests. Or even that one who almost became a gay bishop.

It's not for you to decide for them how they interpret the bible.

No of course not, I am not the one who will judge them. never said I will decide for any one. We all make our own choices.

 

[Wraith]

same sex marriages should be legal. if you dont like it, then dont get married to a gay guy.

 

[HunterSeeker]

So homosexualls who engage in sush activity should go to hell right? Well I personally dont bellive in the bible and I think you should stop caring so much for people who dont want you to care about them, let them get married and then go to hell if you think thats what will happen to them. I hate when religion is used to harm other people...

 

[Apos]

Then I said.
Quote:
Every single law must be kept in order to stand justified in Gods eyes. However it was the blood of Jesus that attones for the unrightous and now justifies us before God

Which illustrates the point perfectly. Bring up an untidy question to a zealot, and they will respond with a ferverent bit of theology that is completely off-topic. The question had nothing to do with people's perfection before the law, but whether the law still applied. Paul, for instance, thinks not in many cases, though he doesn't make completely clear why or in which cases. That's not a question that can be addressed simply by asserting that Jesus atones for all sin: that's irrelevant to the question (not to mention that the whole concept of human sacrificial atonement is both incoherent as well as itself abhorrent under Jewish law!).

 

[CptStern]

Doesn't surprise me.

explain yourself, please

 

[Apos]

LOL, because you fail to offer any reasonable proof that there are contradictions I am a Zealot. You basicaly said I was fooling myself if I thought that there were no contradictions in the bible, fine, now back up your claim. I can have a reasonable disscussion about the bible, I dont claim to know everything but from what i do know I have yet to find a claim that was not rather easy to dissolve.

Yes, you are asserting biblical inerrancy, which is a zealot's position. There's no point in having such a discussion: people who believe that the Bible is inerrant are utterly immune to reason and argument. You didn't come to your belief by reason, so its pointless to try and use reason to point out your error.

Whethere you believe in the bible or not isn't the issue, and your doctrinal education doesn't make you very eligable to make such comments about what Jesus was unclear about.

Of course it does. Most of what Jesus says in the Bible is fairly cryptic, which is half the reason why Christians have spent millenia killing each other over what they think he might have meant.

Had you actualy read the bible you would understand that the perfect standard of God is something unabtainable for us because of the corruption of sin.

Actually, I can almost guarantee I know more about the Bible than you, since I've actually studied it academically and you seem to simply regurgitate beliefs about it.

There are no laws that magicaly disappear.

Tell that to Paul. He seems to disagree with your interpretation.

 

[f|uke]

pwned.

 

[Apos]

How is it being bigoted.

Just because you think it is right to be bigoted doesn't magically protect you from being bigoted.

yet none you you guys either Know any of us personely or understand even the basics of the doctrine you challenge.

Actually, I bet I know plenty more than you about scripture. And I know plenty of Christians that aren't zealots or fools.

So who are the ones being discriminated against?

Are you laughably suggesting that CHRISTIANS are being discriminated against? So... a powerful majority is being discriminated against.... er, by whom? You really do have a persecution complex.

Christians oppose a homosexual lifestyle just like we would an adulturess one. To us its the same as cheating on your wife. Sin is sin. Thats what we believe.

Good for you. Believe whatever you want. But just don't make it into laws.

 

[Edge]

Honestly the concept of marriage is so corrupt and mutated that if they want to get married let them

 

[Apos]

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination"

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

So, shouldn't we put gay men to death then? Or are you saying that God is wrong about this? Which is it?

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Actually, it doesn't say that, because there was no word for "homosexual" in Paul's day. The closest translation is "abusers of themselves with mankind" which isn't even remotely the same thing.

 

[Yakuza]

Yes, you are asserting biblical inerrancy, which is a zealot's position. There's no point in having such a discussion: people who believe that the Bible is inerrant are utterly immune to reason and argument. You didn't come to your belief by reason, so its pointless to try and use reason to point out your error.

Realy why does that make me immune to reason. And how is it that you think I came to what I believe what I do with out reason. You are making rather large assumptions dont you think.

Your the one being unreasonable. I asked you to back up your claim and all you have done is make attacks at who i am and what I believe.

Of course it does. Most of what Jesus says in the Bible is fairly cryptic, which is half the reason why Christians have spent millenia killing each other over what they think he might have meant.

What are these "might have ments" you keep talking about.

Actually, I can almost guarantee I know more about the Bible than you, since I've actually studied it academically and you seem to simply regurgitate beliefs about it.

This may be true but you seem to lack the very fundemntals of Christian theology.

Tell that to Paul. He seems to disagree with your interpretation.

Well lets talk about it then, all you do is dodge questions and throw speculatory statments up in the air.

I am more than willing to have a reasonable disscussion with you.

 

[CptStern]

hey I'm still waiting for your explanation

 

[f|uke]

Realy why does that make me immune to reason. And how is it that you think I came to what I believe what I do with out reason. You are making rather large assumptions dont you think.

Reason will not lead you to believe in the bible, only faith. To the believer, faith cannot be refuted by reason because it supersedes all empirical evidence. Otherwise Christians would have accepted the validity of evoltion, and conversely admited the falsehood of creationism a long time ago. Please, try, try to explain how rational and common sense led you to believe in Christianity.

 

[Edge]

Please, try, try to explain how rational and common sense led you to believe in Christianity.

Christianity does not require common sense or even encourage it. You are meant to follow a book written by people from thousands of years ago and translated into several different languages based on that person's perception of the so called stories or eye witness accounts.

The fact is some people need to believe there is something greater than this world to help them cope because they are weak and need to reach out to others who believe the same thing. It makes them feel a part of something and special. Which is all fine and dandy. Where religion becomes filthy is when we are judged and looked down on because we don't share the same beliefs. All the while they are committing the same so called "sin" as all of us non believers. They are hypocrites.

Live your life and let others live their life! Love those around you and make a difference in someone's life. You do that and you will find the same fullfillment those who are in church cliques but you will save some money
:cheese:

 

[Ikerous]

I'm a Christian based on logic :-/
Basing ones religion on pure faith seems a lil ignorant..
(Then again so does being against gay marriage.)

 

[Apos]

Realy why does that make me immune to reason. And how is it that you think I came to what I believe what I do with out reason. You are making rather large assumptions dont you think.

Not really. To claim that something is infaliable (without error) is a pretty extreme claim, and ultimately one that can be only taken on faith. Faith is immune to reason, because no matter what evidence is presented, there is always SOME way to weasel out of it by some re-interpretation. For instance, in places in the Bible where there are differences in numbers for the same event, you get people saying "well, but the first instance doesn't say that there were ONLY 100 horsemen there, it just says that there were 100 horsemen there, and hence that doesn't contradict the part where it says that there were 500 horsemen there." Of such tortured excuses are claims of infaliability made.

What are these "might have ments" you keep talking about.

Ah, so you're even ignorant of the large and bloody disputes over Christian history as to how to interpret Jesus' words?

This may be true but you seem to lack the very fundemntals of Christian theology.

Just because I don't believe them doesn't mean I don't know what they are.

Well lets talk about it then, all you do is dodge questions and throw speculatory statments up in the air.

Laughable, when you dodged the entire thrust of the question of the applicability of the purity laws, putting gay men to death, etc. etc, responding onyl with off-topic jargon.

 

[Yakuza]

Reason will not lead you to believe in the bible, only faith. To the believer, faith cannot be refuted by reason because it supersedes all empirical evidence. Otherwise Christians would have accepted the validity of evoltion, and conversely admited the falsehood of creationism a long time ago. Please, try, try to explain how rational and common sense led you to believe in Christianity.

hmm let me see. I saw my mom change, she said it was God. Okay.....whatever. I have heard from hundreds and thousands of people who have claimed God has worked in their life. I opened up my heart to the possibility of God and had a personel experiance with God.

And what evidence do you have that creationism is false.

 

[f|uke]

People attributing personal change to God is a far cry from empirical evidence. Have you ever heard the term 'hallucination'? Or 'self-dillusion'? How about 'projection'?

Evidence I have that creationsim is false? Oh, lets see,. DNA,. clear ties between species,. observing mutations and cross pollinations,. dinosaur bones,. the dating of rocks/fossles to way back before the bible said the earth was created,. celestial observations that show how old the universe is,. wow, the list just goes on and on!

 

[Edge]

hmm let me see. I saw my mom change, she said it was God. Okay.....whatever. I have heard from hundreds and thousands of people who have claimed God has worked in their life. I opened up my heart to the possibility of God and had a personel experiance with God.

When you were a child you believed with every ounce of your being Santa Clause was real too. Probably spoke to him, saw him on occasion, and his gifts change your life.

 

[Yakuza]

Not really. To claim that something is infaliable (without error) is a pretty extreme claim, and ultimately one that can be only taken on faith. Faith is immune to reason, because no matter what evidence is presented, there is always SOME way to weasel out of it by some re-interpretation. For instance, in places in the Bible where there are differences in numbers for the same event, you get people saying "well, but the first instance doesn't say that there were ONLY 100 horsemen there, it just says that there were 100 horsemen there, and hence that doesn't contradict the part where it says that there were 500 horsemen there." Of such tortured excuses are claims of infaliability made.



Ah, so you're even ignorant of the large and bloody disputes over Christian history as to how to interpret Jesus' words?



Just because I don't believe them doesn't mean I don't know what they are.



Laughable, when you dodged the entire thrust of the question of the applicability of the purity laws, putting gay men to death, etc. etc, responding onyl with off-topic jargon.

Okay I see that an honest disscussion is not what you are looking for. You keep claiming you know somthing yet you say nothing.

My faith may be proven wrong but i still use evidence and draw logical conclusions.

I answered the question about putting gay me to death. something about Jesus fullfilling the law so all could be saved. And that when I judge others I will be measured in the same way. God says homosexuality is wrong and is worthy of death, yet because of Jesus, Gods grace was poured out for all so all can be saved. Same thing goes for other sins aswell.


Bring up one of these wars so we can discuss it.

 

[f|uke]

When you were a child you believed with every ounce of your being Santa Clause was real too. Probably spoke to him, saw him on occasion, and his gifts change your life.

You know, I've often considered that analogy myself,. still I never have expressed it directly to someone of faith.