So far no display of AI

[Crusader]

Well, I think I shall be leaving the forums for a while, it has become one giant war against people who really seem to me that they have no business on a Half-Life 2 fan site. I'm going to play HL1, you know that game that's still number one 6 years later..

 

[clarky003]

I wonder what people mean when they want incredible AI. ,

realistic = enemy sees you responds to your position accordingly, using cover, and calling in his buddy's to help.. and then putting up a competant fight

incredible = all of the above happens,, 'except!' when you shoot the first combine in the foot. hee hobbles towards his pal. yelling ouch oo!,, proceeds to clamber on to one of his buddy's back, and both continue to shoot whilst his bud struggles to support his weight. :rolling: .

piggy backing combine, woot

see if you can make up your own examples of incredible AI response and sequencing, , its sooo easy to write down.. now.. only if I could program that... hmm.

 

[Tarkus]

the only thing that continues to interest me, is the water.. really cool, althought a bit "metal" like

 

[Sai]

Umm, why is it rediculous? Gamespot has always been a bunch of freaking morons. Giving games that suck complete a$$ great reviews, while those that are great "ok" reviews.

uhh actually gamespot, if anything, only underates games, which can be a good thing if you consider that they have higher expectations so truly great games get what they deserve, and mind giving me an example of overated games on gamespot?

if you can really command an entire squad that would be kick ass, i hope it's an improvement over opposing force though

 

[tokin]

Actually I just remembered something about the Traptown Bink vid. When he makes his way into that little house, and the combine start shooting into the windows, look closely. The guy controlling Gordon sits behind one of the objects (washing machine or whatever) and then realizes that the combine is shooting at an object next to him and quickly runs over to that one instead to hide behind.

Like I said though, all of this doesn't really matter now, the game's AI will be decent at the least, and good at the likeliest.

Okay. Yeah, it's ovbious he knows that door is getting kicked in so he moves. It was all rigged like i said, that is the way they wanted it. So what is going to happen to me if i get the washer and table against the door and then hide in the corner, will they just randomly shoot in? Doubt it, for all we know they could toss a grenade in (a different type possibly) or some how stay stuck outside, this A.I. is going to be the far most intelligent we have ever seen.

 

[Tarkus]

I wonder what people mean when they want incredible AI. ,

realistic = enemy sees you responds to your postion accordingly, using cover, and calling in his buddy's to help.. and then putting up a competant fight

incredible = all of the above happens,, 'except!' when you shoot the first combine in the foot. hee hobbles towards his pal. yelling ouch oo!,, proceeds to clamber on to one of his buddy's back, and both continue to shoot whilst his bud struggles to support his weight.

see if you can make up your own examples of incredible AI response and sequencing, , its sooo easy to write down.. now.. only if I could program that... hmm.

for me, an incredible A.I. would include some dumass citizen dudes getting out of my way. but that sort of talk doesnt concern this forum... (lol, a bit latge for me to say that i guess)

 

[Soundwave]

Okay. Yeah, it's ovbious he knows that door is getting kicked in so he moves. It was all rigged like i said, that is the way they wanted it. So what is going to happen to me if i get the washer and table against the door and then hide in the corner, will they just randomly shoot in? Doubt it, for all we know they could toss a grenade in (a different type possibly) or some how stay stuck outside, this A.I. is going to be the far most intelligent we have ever seen.

Let me clarify something. I'm not trying to cite examples like my previous one to argue that the AI is nonexistant, I was merely providing an example to those wanting information about Traptown's supposed scriptedness. Honestly, scripting the game for E3 like that is not only normal but a good idea. How would it look if the AI went and did something completely random and stupid, or god forbid caused the game to crash right as everyone is watching the demonstration? I'm aware that the AI will be good, just trying to shed some light on the basis for all the claims that the E3 demo was completely scripted.

 

[Sai]

this A.I. is going to be the far most intelligent we have ever seen.

i just really want to know how well it's going to react in real combat, like will it use cover, will it call for back up, will it try to flank and then ambush you........

 

[tokin]

Yes they did, all that was different was they used a X8000 with it instead of the card they used back then. The game could be the best seller of the year, and people would love it, and there will always be biased morons who bash it for no reason other than to bash it.

Wow, that is really strange. So very true, i'm going to watch that video again, do you know where i can find the new one with the X800? So i guess they had some sort of code to continue to run it that way or maybe that scene is scripted in a way but you can still do whatever you want on the outside part of the game, as in you the gamer controlling it.

 

[clarky003]

for me, an incredible A.I. would include some dumass citizen dudes getting out of my way. but that sort of talk doesnt concern this forum... (lol, a bit latge for me to say that i guess)

lol you detected the hint of sarcasm in my post then ..

 

[tokin]

Well i think that all of us will see problems with the A.I. in HL2. Far Cry had it's time with the 0 IQ A.I. in the game, i mean it's there and always has been there, HL2 will change it a lot but wont fix it. I'd actually love to see some of the retarded crap HL2 A.I.'s might pull.

 

[Sai]

i wonder if valve totally scripts the a.i. and in the end gets away with it, i mean like they script it and no one notices and they lie and say that they didn't script it

 

[Shuzer]

i wonder if valve totally scripts the a.i. and in the end gets away with it, i mean like they script it and no one notices and they lie and say that they didn't script it

How about.. no.

 

[Dsty2001]

uhh actually gamespot, if anything, only underates games, which can be a good thing if you consider that they have higher expectations so truly great games get what they deserve, and mind giving me an example of overated games on gamespot?

if you can really command an entire squad that would be kick ass, i hope it's an improvement over opposing force though

Simple, Battlefield 1942 comes to mind. An 8.8/10? Give me a break! All the game is, is Quake in WWII with better graphics. Don't give me the *Well millions are playing it* crap either.

Halo 9.7/10 - Uh? While I agree Halo was a good game, it was no were near superb. For crying out loud, they only gave Half-Life a 9.4 and it clearly blows Halo out of the water.

 

[Wolf]

i wonder if valve totally scripts the a.i. and in the end gets away with it, i mean like they script it and no one notices and they lie and say that they didn't script it

Ah.. no...
Every AI routine atm in gaming is based on scripts of varing sophistication. If you mean whether HL2 will use very primitive scripts that always unfold the same way then you're dead wrong. If you mean does it contain sophisticated scripts that aren't the miricale perfect AI that some people have tried to talk-it-up to be - then yes obviously...

If you want to talk about dev teams using a bit of exaggeration to bs about their AI you can include just about every game team under the sun except Pyranha Bytes (Gothic 1&2) and Monolith (NOLF1&2). The worse offenders are probably Ion Storm (IW), GSC (Stalker), Lionhead Studios (Black and White), Raven (SoF2), etc etc

 

[Tarkus]

Simple, Battlefield 1942 comes to mind. An 8.8/10? Give me a break! All the game is, is Quake in WWII with better graphics. Don't give me the *Well millions are playing it* crap either.

Halo 9.7/10 - Uh? While I agree Halo was a good game, it was no were near superb. For crying out loud, they only gave Half-Life a 9.4 and it clearly blows Halo out of the water.

it does? it can overcome halo in one or other very important aspect, like, story and immersion.. guess thats what gave hl the community it has nowadays... but, wasn't halo the first game will really pretty graphics? maybe thats why it recieve that score... i dont know, cause i only got halo a year after it went out

 

[Sai]

Simple, Battlefield 1942 comes to mind. An 8.8/10? Give me a break! All the game is, is Quake in WWII with better graphics. Don't give me the *Well millions are playing it* crap either.

Halo 9.7/10 - Uh? While I agree Halo was a good game, it was no were near superb. For crying out loud, they only gave Half-Life a 9.4 and it clearly blows Halo out of the water.

i don't know what your beef with bf42 is but that game kicks ass, i thought an 8.8/10 was kind of an underate especially when you compare it to the scores that other sites gave it like ign, and your acting like gamespot was the only site to overate halo, come on that's a definate negative, i consider it one of the most overated games of all time from practically all gameing publications

and i don't see what your problem is with hl getting a 9.4, they gave the gameplay a 9, the graphics a 9, the sound a 10, the value a 9, and reviewer's tilt was a 10, and i think 9.4 is just about right for hl1

and about the full scripted a.i. thing yea i didn't really think it was possible either

 

[Darkside55]

I don't know why everyone's having a fit. HL1's marines took cover, tossed grenades, swarmed you...you really think that Valve's going to say, "Yeah, that was way too hard for people in HL1. Let's just make the new enemies stand still."

C'mon...I don't mean to sound like an ass, but is anyone here really that stupid? Oh-em-gee, there's not going to be any AI in HL2 at all because it wasn't in the E3 videos! Valve lied and used their lies to make us all hyped up about the game, but it's really all lies and they don't expect anyone to find out that the AI talk was all lies, and Valve are liars, they're all dirty liars; CONSPIRACY! CONSPIRACY!

And we all know that there's no AI 'cause the reviewers played an alpha of the game without any polish, wherein the AI was probably disabled so that they could get the most out of their limited playtime (what was it, 30 minutes?) without being gunned-down by Combine soldiers every 5 minutes. Even if that ISN'T the case, please refer to paragraph one of this post.
Or maybe the most conclusive evidence that there will be no AI is because stolen build players say so. Well, that sure sells me on the "No AI" bandwagon! I can look forward to stand-still enemies and rebels who won't get the f*ck out of my way now, too! I mean, c'mon guys, if there was no AI then, surely there's no AI a year later! Hey, all Valve does is sit with their thumbs up their asses all day at the office anyway! Nothing gets done, ever!

 

[commando]

i read that thr ai will chase you *once seen* for a long time. if you jump over creates then they can jump/climb over the creates... you climb the ladder...so will they.

So this time they will chase you alot more.

I will be scared and it will feel sooo real when they have lost me and looking for me. (theres me with a crowbar hiding in a dark corner crouching down.

Also the combine have radios so they can call back up/ you can shoot the radio

i head this like last year when we all first read about it

 

[x84D80Yx]

I see what your saying but i dont remember valve ever running another demonstration. Didn't they just use the same video to show over and over again?

they had it at e3, and at the winHE2004 show. same video, but why would you show a video comparing how better one video card is to another. if you make a video of a game you play, its going to look the same as it did on my computer regardless of hardware. this makes me beleive that its just the real game, but it was scripted back then. im not saying hl2 will be scripted now, im just saying back then we know that the e3 vids were scripted.

 

[Soundwave]

Halo 9.7/10 - Uh? While I agree Halo was a good game, it was no were near superb. For crying out loud, they only gave Half-Life a 9.4 and it clearly blows Halo out of the water.

Remember though, that games rated are only rated against other games on the system. They don't rate a game like Halo with all the excellent PC FPS in mind, therefore it got a much better score. Notice Halo for PC, despite being better than the XBox version, got a lower score.

 

[Sai]

halo will always be overated (imo) the game was just pretty and streatched five minutes of fun for about 15 hours

 

[Wolf]

Haven't you ever heard of a demo loop? Ie. A real time simulated loop of the same scene?

I think everyone really needs to take a reality check from this 'it's scripted' mantra and use their brains for a second...

 

[Spiffae]

they had it at e3, and at the winHE2004 show. same video, but why would you show a video comparing how better one video card is to another. if you make a video of a game you play, its going to look the same as it did on my computer regardless of hardware. this makes me beleive that its just the real game, but it was scripted back then. im not saying hl2 will be scripted now, im just saying back then we know that the e3 vids were scripted.

well, not all of them... sure, some parts were scripted, some were AI - we'll never know which was which, because they were then recorded into demos, and will play back the same every time, regardless of AI or scripting.

What they are showing is the graphical detail... I think they showed it at a higher resolution, and they were showing off the high frame rate. that's all. It wasn't a movie in the style of the bink movies, it was actually playing in the Half-Life 2 engine. That's whey they were demoing it on the X800. It's a real-time demo.

 

[Spiffae]

Simple, Battlefield 1942 comes to mind. An 8.8/10? Give me a break! All the game is, is Quake in WWII with better graphics. Don't give me the *Well millions are playing it* crap either.

Halo 9.7/10 - Uh? While I agree Halo was a good game, it was no were near superb. For crying out loud, they only gave Half-Life a 9.4 and it clearly blows Halo out of the water.

Stop bitching and go use a site like metacritic, gamerankings, or gametab to get your game review scores. You can argue with one gaming site, but you can't argue with all the gaming sites.

sorry for the double post.

 

[Neutrino]

About the whole A.I. thing; technically until we are able to produce artificial intelligence all game AI is scripted in a sense. Sure they generate random actions, but in the end it's still running premade scripts.

So all this talk of scripted vs. non scripted is pretty pointless in my opinion. The only thing that really matters is how it appears in game, which we haven't really seen yet.

 

[Lobster]

they had it at e3, and at the winHE2004 show. same video, but why would you show a video comparing how better one video card is to another. if you make a video of a game you play, its going to look the same as it did on my computer regardless of hardware. this makes me beleive that its just the real game, but it was scripted back then. im not saying hl2 will be scripted now, im just saying back then we know that the e3 vids were scripted.

Alot of game trailers are scripted, even ones supposedly showing gameplay, there are reasons for it, when people downloaded the beta the first thing they did was load up the E3 maps and say, "OH MY GOD, ITS ALL SCRIPTED", then closed it and went straight onto forums to tell all!

The 'more' intelligent people decided to look at the actual (in development) game maps that would eventully be used in the final game, they have all there node work done, and alot of the more finished maps had AI running perfectly, zombies smacking on doors, chucking all kinds of crap at u, and the combine soldiers used cover beautifuly and backed each other up, if you blocked a doorway they would usually chuck a grenade in and u then realise u have blocked ur escape lol.

Last years E3 demo was not a good example of the AI, and i hope they will have clearer videos this time round. :O

 

[tokin]

We shall find out quite soon, i really hope we get blown away by these upcoming videos, HL2 has only knocked me off my feet at the first E3..id like to get excited again....especially hearing something about TF2....it's a possibility they might say something.

 

[Johan_Tayn]

they had it at e3, and at the winHE2004 show. same video, but why would you show a video comparing how better one video card is to another. if you make a video of a game you play, its going to look the same as it did on my computer regardless of hardware. this makes me beleive that its just the real game, but it was scripted back then. im not saying hl2 will be scripted now, im just saying back then we know that the e3 vids were scripted.

it was a demo recorded within the game. so the new card still renders it, but the same things happen.

 

[CLAYMAN]

So you're all saying that everytime you play, soldiers will advance the exact same way ... ? I very much doubt it.

How they advance and interact is AI.

 

[commando]

So you're all saying that everytime you play, soldiers will advance the exact same way ... ? I very much doubt it.

How they advance and interact is AI.

i really doubt that as well

Valve said the AI isn't scripted... so that basically means it isn't scripted

 

[clarky003]

it certainly isnt scripted from start to finish, as people who have played the leak will probably know, its just little bits like when the door is being nudged, and then kicked open. and to be honest thats about it. oh, and the Striders, their movement was scripted. but this was all place holding to show what they wanted the final product to be like....theres no problem in that, all games company's do it. to some extent.

 

[marty905]

some of the stuff of the beta leak is scripted because it was mostly from the E3 2003 presentation.... which was scripted to show some stuff the half life 2 engine can do

 

[amneziac85]

The problem is, why is any of it scripted in the first place if the AI was supposed to be so hot?

If you say that the AI wasnt ready because it was still in dev, then um...that would mean their showing off things the engine cant do, maybe they found a way to implement it into their game or not, point is when you give people the impression that nothing is scripted, when "some" were and some wernt, your lying. (Again)

So fanboys calm down, im 99% sure HL2 will be a game I'll play for years to come, but they were caught lying. Period.

 

[Shuzer]

The problem is, why is any of it scripted in the first place if the AI was supposed to be so hot?

If you say that the AI wasnt ready because it was still in dev, then um...that would mean their showing off things the engine cant do, maybe they found a way to implement it into their game or not, point is when you give people the impression that nothing is scripted, when "some" were and some wernt, your lying. (Again)

So fanboys calm down, im 99% sure HL2 will be a game I'll play for years to come, but they were caught lying. Period.

AI can't do EVERYTHING. Whether you'd like to believe it or not, an action, such as kicking in a door, HAS to be scripted at this point in time. Even if the combine had an action as such set, that, if approaching a closed door, was told to kick it in, it'd still be scripted in a sense, no?

 

[The Mullinator]

The problem is, why is any of it scripted in the first place if the AI was supposed to be so hot?

If you say that the AI wasnt ready because it was still in dev, then um...that would mean their showing off things the engine cant do, maybe they found a way to implement it into their game or not, point is when you give people the impression that nothing is scripted, when "some" were and some wernt, your lying. (Again)

So fanboys calm down, im 99% sure HL2 will be a game I'll play for years to come, but they were caught lying. Period.

Its impossible to make the AI completely unscripted, no game probably within the next 10 years will have completely unscripted AI.

As for showing off things about the engine, maybe their intentions were to show off what the AI was going to become. Maybe they were showing off how the physics can be interactive. They never said that NOTHING was scripted, all they said was that most of the things that the enemies will do is not scripted.

The fact is you can't say they were lying about the AI since you havn't played the full game yet. Wait for when the game is actually released and you get to see for yourself whether the AI can do everything that it has been hyped it can do, then decide whether Valve was lying or not.

 

[RoguePsi]

Anyway, regardless of whether those videos scripted or not, it doesn't matter because the game will come out soon enough and shut the dumb 'tards up who doubted such a sophisticated masterpiece.

The way I understood it was, the gameplay structure will be built with linear scripting so that the story is revealed to you as you play (just like HL1/MOHAA etc). The reactionary scripting simply revolves around that. You won't be running around completing the games tasks all the time so sometimes you'll be exploring and doing random stuff which is when the reactionary scripting will be at its most effective - reacting to your unscripted actions.

 

[Neutrino]

The problem is, why is any of it scripted in the first place if the AI was supposed to be so hot?

If you say that the AI wasnt ready because it was still in dev, then um...that would mean their showing off things the engine cant do, maybe they found a way to implement it into their game or not, point is when you give people the impression that nothing is scripted, when "some" were and some wernt, your lying. (Again)

So fanboys calm down, im 99% sure HL2 will be a game I'll play for years to come, but they were caught lying. Period.

What the heck? I'm no fanatical supporter of Valve, but why do you say they were lying? Please give me evidence of this. I remember one single comment about AI in the barricades video, which seems perfectly legitimate. As far as I know there were no other comments made about AI so all this stuff about Valve claiming it was unscripted seems to be untrue as well as pointless.

However, if you actually have more evidence of this so called lying then by all means let us know.

 

[manny_c44]

The evidence of no AI comes from the illegal build which the e3 vdeos were based off of. And they had no AI at all, they just went through the pre-scripted motions while the player made it seem like it was intense. It was a huge lie.

The bizarre part is that at the time, VALVE still claimed the game would ship in september, which was only a few months away, but there was no AI.



The new gamespot article says the AI wasnt noticebaly intellegent in the demo they played. Infact, the whole article is pretty down on the game.

 

[Wolf]

The evidence of no AI comes from the illegal build which the e3 vdeos were based off of. And they had no AI at all, they just went through the pre-scripted motions while the player made it seem like it was intense. It was a huge lie.

The bizarre part is that at the time, VALVE still claimed the game would ship in september, which was only a few months away, but there was no AI.



The new gamespot article says the AI wasnt noticebaly intellegent in the demo they played. Infact, the whole article is pretty down on the game.

That is simply untrue. Have you actually played it or are you going on hearsay?