so we had a rock int he shoe that we cant take out

[<RJMC>]

well the elections where today and chavez won again

I think one factor was cuz like half of the population voted, off course whit the fear of tricked machines and stuff like that

the good thing is that chavez got 5 millions votes and not the 10 millions they claimed

and the only thing that worries is to what kind of stupid laws he will input

however atleast nothing bad happened, especially whit represantives of the goverment saying that there where worried that the oposition was going to start a bloodshed if chavez won (considering that groups of chavez followers shoot guns when they found anti-chavez protester,posibly to defend themselfs from the scream) and well I dont see any of that

also the fact that christmas wasnt ruined

so now I will hav less respect for chavez followers, however the oposition was dumb too and I still hope things get calm

 

[Ome_Vince]

yeah, I'm currently staying with a Venezuelan/Cuban family and they weren't "pleased" to say the least with this outcome.
One just came back from Venezuela a few days ago, supporting Manuel Rosales and isn't in a very good mood right now .
Anyways, we're watching Venezuelan TV a lot now, and already several claims are coming in of "dubious" activities, i guess we'll see where Venezuela ends up this time.
I don't believe in riots solving this, its Chavez for another 6 years... (unless he changes the law again allowing him to stay even longer).

Whatever your opinion about Chavez and his government, one thing you cant deny,.. there's a lot of smoke coming from this country.

Wiki on 2006 elections concerns.

Concerns over the Electoral Registry

Opposition candidates and political parties have voiced concerns over the possible inaccuracies of the national electoral registry. Previous elections have shown that there might be a great number of deceased people still on the records. The CNE has audited the Registry on multiple occasions, the first occurred in early 2006 by IIDH-CAPEL (Costa Rican Human Right org) That concluded there was nothing found that delegitimized the registry [46] A second review process started in mid 2006 where the CNE asked all the public universities of Venezuela to conduct also an external review of the electoral registry. However, the review project presented by the Central University of Venezuela, Simón Bolívar University and the Catholic University Andrés Bello was rejected by the CNE. One of the proposed methods by these institutions was comparing census data with the electoral registry.[47] They nevertheless ran their audit in parallel and the representative of the three institutions José Miguel Bernardo concluded "In practice [these errors] do not favor the government and their distribution is uniform."[48] A second mathematician involved in the audit Raúl Jimenez concluded "One must be responsible. The electoral registry is a disaster and the CNE has done nothing to improve it, but there is nothing to indicate a political intention in the anomalies."[48]

The CNE performed the third audit with the aid of seven other public universities and with the Carter Center and two senators from the Belgian parliament observing the audit. [48] The senators were Jacinta de Roeck, from the SPA/Spirit party, and Sfia Bouarfa, from the French speaking Socialist Party. [49]

In June 2006, a privately funded preliminary study by Genaro Mosquera, a statistics professor at the Central University and member of the political party Democratic Action,[50] claimed that in the last three years the registry grew 27% compare to a population growth of only 7.3% during those years and also a much larger growth than the regular increasse of the registry of 12% every five years between 1948 and 2000. On of the flagship government Bolivarian Missions was mission identidad, where roughly 5 million citizens were awarded an ID card and the right to register and vote [51]Also, by comparing the official population numbers provided with by the Office of National Statistics with the CNE registry, there seems to be more register voters of 45 years of age and over than actual population. [47]

According to NGO Ojo Electoral (Electoral Eye) preliminary results of a comparison between the Electoral Registry and demographic projections of the National Institute of Statistics (INE) suggests that inconsistencies in the voter data base cannot modify the results of the election.[52]

[edit] Other concerns

The opposition is denouncing unfair pressure by the government against those governmental workers who might not want to support the president. They released a video that showed energy minister and head of PDVSA, Rafael Ramírez, telling state oil workers to back President Hugo Chávez or to leave their jobs. He also said PDVSA is red "from top to bottom"(PDVSA es roja, rojita de arriba abajo). He also said that PDVSA's "workers are with this revolution, and those who aren't should go somewhere else. Go to Miami". Opposition media outlets have been repeating the 14-minute video over and over again. President Chávez said he supported the PDVSA director and recommended him to make the same speech to oil workers 100 times a day.[53] The CNE opened an investigation into Rafael Ramírez following the protests from the opposition. [54]

heh, Vote for the president, or get fired.. hmm sounds.. fair to me... right?

Though doesnt surprise me, everybody was expecting Chavez to win, though it was pussy of him not to go in any public debates classifying his opponent as

"Chávez has repeatedly declared he won't debate Rosales because the candidates from the opposition would be less able to talk than "a schoolboy or girl from a Bolivarian school""

lol, wtf

 

[Solaris]

Hurrah!

 

[Raziaar]

Hurrah!

GTFO now please. We don't need your make-no-sense **** all governments except Chavez crap here.

I'm going to side with the very reasonable RJMC here.

 

[Gray Fox]

Chavez may not be nice, but isn't he the lesser evil compared to his opposition.

 

[15357]

The Left (or wrong) seems to be plaguing South America now.

 

[zleppelin]

Chavez is the democratically elect president of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Sad, but true.

RJMC, if you are one of those rich/upper middle class Venezuelans you can always come live with us in the US.

 

[CptStern]

The Left (or wrong) seems to be plaguing South America now.

so you liked it better when right wing governments ran most of south america? murderous dictatorships like that of pinochet, stroessner, Branco, Samoza, Banzer, D’Aubuisson, Rios Montt, Videla, Noriega etc etc etc etc?

 

[<RJMC>]

Chavez is the democratically elect president of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Sad, but true.

RJMC, if you are one of those rich/upper middle class Venezuelans you can always come live with us in the US.

goddammed stop whit the "omfg you are rich and in the internetz it say rich people hate chavez" I am not rich, I hav see "poor" people that dont like chavez too,and also millonaire people that like chavez too so stop whit the bullcrap

I dont consider chavez the root of evil, he is right in some stuff, but still he is like a goddamed castro's wanabee and I dont like castro

and as stern said here in southamerica the word "good president" is barely mentioned so we all learn to deal whit it

 

[$kelet0r]

I don't buy the American propaganda against him .... yet - the man is against some extremely powerful forces (the US, the Venezualan upper class, the former right wing, the army, foreign multinationals, the catholic church) and can still claim majority democratic support. I will never condone his actions in silencing opponents etc. BUT he has made significant progress, he has stood up to the US interference and he does seem sincere.

I am still reserving judgement until he steps down from power, but as long as he keeps getting democratically and legally elected and as long as the right wing in America continue to fear him I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is probably the best Venezuala could hope for at the moment

 

[CptStern]

well there were some leaders who were better than others ...but then certain larger whiter countries overthrew them and replaced them with the bad ones

rjmc: there will always be people who disagree with political ideology in their native countries ..however in south/central america politics tends to be more volitile, therefore people have more at stake; their work, their family, their way of life, their lives. Fear of a coup orchestrated by the opposition, just doesnt even enter the minds of (for example) canadians, therefore we tend to be less polarized (committed to one side of the political arena) in our political ideology; people's lives arent drastically changed by the election of the opposition ..which isnt the case in south/central america: your fortunes can change literally overnight depending on who takes office

also, you're sitting on the largest oil reserves in the world ..media/political bias towards chavez tends to be tempered by that fact (it works both ways)

 

[15357]

so you liked it better when right wing governments ran most of south america? murderous dictatorships like that of pinochet, stroessner, Branco, Samoza, Banzer, D’Aubuisson, Rios Montt, Videla, Noriega etc etc etc etc?

Uh, well, were they pro-US? (j/k)

Actually, I've never even heard of them. D:

goddammed stop whit the "omfg you are rich and in the internetz it say rich people hate chavez" I am not rich, I hav see "poor" people that dont like chavez too,and also millonaire people that like chavez too so stop whit the bullcrap

I dont consider chavez the root of evil, he is right in some stuff, but still he is like a goddamed castro's wanabee and I dont like castro

and as stern said here in southamerica the word "good president" is barely mentioned so we all learn to deal whit it

I think he was symphatising with you there, RJMC.

also, you're sitting on the largest oil reserves in the world ..media/political bias towards chavez tends to be tempered by that fact (it works both ways)

YEAH. They have nearly 40 ~ 50 times cheaper gasoline prices.

 

[$kelet0r]

Originally Posted by CptStern View Post
so you liked it better when right wing governments ran most of south america? murderous dictatorships like that of pinochet, stroessner, Branco, Samoza, Banzer, D’Aubuisson, Rios Montt, Videla, Noriega etc etc etc etc?
Uh, well, were they pro-US?

Actually, I've never even heard of them. D:

Wikipedia is your friend
Some of are the most evil men to have lived in the 20th century - the US unleashed some horrific monsters in South America


Out of interest RJMC have you ever seen "the Revolution will not be televised' Do you realise how close your country was in 2002 to returning to dictatorship and military rule?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

 

[<RJMC>]

I think he was symphatising with you there, RJMC.

anyway I just hate when pople here write that stuff thinking they know evertyhing about here

 

[CptStern]

Uh, well, were they pro-US? (j/k)

well in many cases they were put there by the US ..so yes they were "pro-US"

Actually, I've never even heard of them. D:

yet for some reason you feel the need to chime in with "leftist governments are ruining the americas!!11"

YEAH. They have nearly 40 ~ 50 times cheaper gasoline prices.

you miss the point

 

[<RJMC>]

Wikipedia is your friend
Some of are the most evil men to have lived in the 20th century - the US unleashed some horrific monsters in South America


Out of interest RJMC have you ever seen "the Revolution will not be televised' Do you realise how close your country was in 2002 to returning to dictatorship and military rule?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

cant see video

but all I am going to say about that incident is that it was the biggest confution ever, people where shot and other crazy stuff happened, chavez said he was beign captive by the CIA but I dont know what to believe, since that day a state of separation hav taked the whole country

 

[15357]

well in many cases they were put there by the US ..so yes they were "pro-US"

If only Vietnam could have been liberated...

yet for some reason you feel the need to chime in with "leftist governments are ruining the americas!!11"

Well, I have something click in my mind whenever I hear "leftist", I just translate the information as the opposite of right, wrong.

you miss the point

Well, having a friendly Venezuelan goverment would be very very awesome..

 

[Solaris]

This is really fantastic news, for me, for the world, and most of all for the hard working people of Venezuela.

I am especially pleased to see that there is still a real socialist voice on the world stage, and that Venusalua controls so much oil gives it a more significant voice, it is definitely a force to be listened to[edited].

The world should benefit, hopefully the reformist revolution will spread throughout similar poor countries, we can see the left gaining ground in other South American countries such as Brazil and Egypt. The poor people in USA will still be able to get cheap heating from Venezuela because Chavez cares for the poor.

Hopefully, Chavez will be able to push through his socialist revolution and the people of Venezuela will be better off.

This really is utterly fantastic news, it's made my day.

 

[ComradeBadger]

it is definitely a force to be ignored.

 

[15357]

This is really fantastic news, for me, for the world, and most of all for the hard working people of Venezuela.

I am especially pleased to see that there is steal a real socialist voice on the world stage, and that Venusalua controls so much oil gives it a more significant voice, it is definitely a force to be ignored.

The world should benefit, hopefully the reformist revolution will spread throughout similar poor countries, we can see the left gaining ground in other South American countries such as Brazil and Egypt. The poor people in USA will still be able to get cheap heating from Venezuela because Chavez cares for the poor.

Hopefully, Chavez will be able to push through his socialist revolution and the people of Venezuela will be better off.

This really is utterly fantastic news, it's made my day.

Or the US just simply invades venezuela after getting annoyed by Chavez. Hey, could happen.

Chavez cares for the poor

His poor.

Not the world's.

hopefully the reformist revolution will spread throughout similar poor countries

It would be the neo-USSR again.

definitely a force to be ignored.

??

is steal a real socialist voice on the world stage

You forgot Kim Jong Il, and he has nukes, so people don't ignore him.

 

[Solaris]

Lol damn spell checker, how did 'listen to' turn into 'ignored'???

-Microsoft conspiracay lol.

 

[$kelet0r]

we can see the left gaining ground in other South American countries such as Brazil and Egypt

lol

 

[CptStern]

Or the US just simply invades venezuela after getting annoyed by Chavez. Hey, could happen.

not likely ..they'll just continue to funnel wads of cash to the opposition, like they've done for over 100 years throughout south/central america ..but I wouldnt rule out a coup

His poor.

Not the world's.

that makes no sense ..should he be more concerned about starving ethiopians?

It would be the neo-USSR again.

what makes you think that? please provide clear concise justification as to why you think south america is headed for what you call a "neo-usser" also provide sources that proves your points

You forgot Kim Jong Il, and he has nukes, so people don't ignore him.

so he was ignored before have nukes? could this all be just another cry for attention? :upstare:


but I do enjoy alarmist rhetoric

"I HAVE A TOOTHBRUSH IN MY HAND! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT MAKE ME USE IT!!"

 

[15357]

I was responding to solaris's comments. He said that socialism will spread out and the poor in the US will not suffer because of him.

 

[zleppelin]

RJMC, I think deep inside Chavez is a good man; you see, I don't buy US propaganda against him. As I said, you can always come live to this great country if you feel that your way of living under this man's rule becomes unbearable. I have a plan for you. Move to Cuba (should be easy since Fidel and Chavez are like father and child), become a Cuban, then hitch a ride on a boat heading to Florida. If you make it ashore you are American.

 

[Mesz]

so he was ignored before have nukes? could this all be just another cry for attention? :upstare:

Yeah it is, he's just so small he needs a lot of big nukes and a powerful communist army marching down the streets of Pyonyang carrying lighted torches to actually feel important because without that, he's just an angry midget that nobody likes....

 

[CptStern]

lets nuke him out of existance

 

[15357]

Nah, nuke's too big. Send in the "Demon Hunters" ROK Marine Corps.

Or we could just take him out with a cruise missle.

Or an Ipod.

 

[CptStern]

here I have a much better idea ..every south korean on the same day at exactly the same time take one step into North Korea ...keep going till commie red turns in the the tutti fruiti colours of liberty!!!!

 

[15357]

Yeah.... but we've got the largest minefield in the world, so not a very good idea.

 

[Razor]

This is really fantastic news, for me, for the world, and most of all for the hard working people of Venezuela.

I am especially pleased to see that there is still a real socialist voice on the world stage, and that Venusalua controls so much oil gives it a more significant voice, it is definitely a force to be listened to[edited].

The world should benefit, hopefully the reformist revolution will spread throughout similar poor countries, we can see the left gaining ground in other South American countries such as Brazil and Egypt. The poor people in USA will still be able to get cheap heating from Venezuela because Chavez cares for the poor.

Hopefully, Chavez will be able to push through his socialist revolution and the people of Venezuela will be better off.

This really is utterly fantastic news, it's made my day.

You on the next plane to Venezuala then? Fighting the goodfight against the evil American led opposition who have brainwashed the population of Venezuala, including the poor fool RJMC, into believing Chavez is an evil evil man.

RJMC, it is sad to hear the news of Chavez and hopefully something can be done to sort him out before he takes Venezuala past the point of no return. Hopefully, the many undead zombies of Venezuala that keep voting for Chavez can be layed to rest once and for all.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah.... but we've got the largest minefield in the world, so not a very good idea.

should have thought about that before you put them there ...also I think you might have a problem with the sentry guns

crowd: "down with commies and up with non commies!!!"

sentry gun: "please identify yourself or we will open fire, this is automated sentry gun # 36,854 "

crowd: "down with commies and up with non commies!!!"

crowd guy #1 "...hey did you hear something?"

crowd guy #2 "it's the communists trying to lull us into surrender with soothing talk!! SING LOUDER!!!


sentry gun: "you are not complying, as a precaution we will now open fire, have a nice day"

 

[15357]

should have thought about that before you put them there ...also I think you might have a problem with the sentry guns

crowd: "down with commies and up with non commies!!!"

sentry gun: "please identify yourself or we will open fire, this is automated sentry gun # 36,854 "

crowd: "down with commies and up with non commies!!!"

crowd guy #1 "...hey did you hear something?"

crowd guy #2 "it's the communists trying to lull us into surrender with soothing talk!! SING LOUDER!!!


sentry gun: "you are not complying, as a precaution we will now open fire, have a nice day"

I loled.


Yes, but when we put it there, the rebels were stronger than us.

And I don't think sentry guns would be facing the otehr way around.

 

[CptStern]

they'll just shoot you in the back as you're walking towards NK ..I dont think they would have thought they needed to prevent people from going to NK :E

 

[15357]

Hmm, yes.

*sends letter to Ministry of Defence* :E

 

[DaMaN]

Yeah.... but we've got the largest minefield in the world, so not a very good idea.

You may soon have a contender: http://www.afghan-network.net/Landmines/

 

[Raziaar]

People keep saying that he was democratically elected again, so it must be alright.

Well... even here in the United States you have serious problems regarding elections and voting. As RJMC has pointed out... it probably wasn't a fair and legitimate election in the least.

As far as Chavez being the best choice for the poor... I read that the other guy planned on giving all unemployed people minimum wage. OH THE HORROR that would be, right?

EL UNIVERSAL

At Caracas Teleport building in Plaza Venezuela, Zulia Governor Manuel Rosales launched his candidacy as the single opposition candidate running for president during the elections to be held next December 3rd.

"Today is a day to put aside personal ambitions and think of unity. It is important, because this year Venezuela is at the crossroads -either it continues on the way to division and unemployment or takes the way of peace and progress," Julio Borges for Primero Justicia (PJ), said after waiving his nomination.

"We are putting Venezuela together again. Everyone must do his bit in order to unite the country."

He asked the public to applause all the nominees who agreed to choose the single candidate, namely Teodoro Petkoff, William Ojeda, Cecilia Sosa, Vicente Brito, Froilán Barrios, Sergio Omar Calderón and Enrique Tejera París.

Amidst the highest accolade, Manuel Rosales took the floor. He announced straight to the point that the social area will be the backbone of his government program. It will be a "sound and well defined" program, he noted.

The local ruler explained that his government plan include really fair allocation of oil revenues by means of two axes -minimum wage for all unemployed and direct contribution to the underprivileged.

The decision to name Rosales as the single opposition candidate was made after the National Electoral Council (CNE) board of directors decided unanimously that a recent ruling from the Constitutional Court, Supreme Tribunal of Justice, does not compel Manuel Rosales, to resign in the event of standing for presidential election.

Previously, the justices of the Constitutional Court noted that any officials running for re-election do not need to quit their posts. However, in the case of officials willing to be elected to a different position -Rosales' case- justices argued that they need to resign.
Such ambiguity prevented the opposition nominees from agreeing on one single candidate and made they consider primary elections.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2006/08/09/en_pol_art_09A762409.shtml


I guess it's noble of chavez to do this?

Other concerns

The opposition is denouncing unfair pressure by the government against those governmental workers who might not want to support the president. They released a video that showed energy minister and head of PDVSA, Rafael Ramírez, telling state oil workers to back President Hugo Chávez or to leave their jobs. He also said PDVSA is red "from top to bottom"(PDVSA es roja, rojita de arriba abajo). He also said that PDVSA's "workers are with this revolution, and those who aren't should go somewhere else. Go to Miami". Opposition media outlets have been repeating the 14-minute video over and over again. President Chávez said he supported the PDVSA director and recommended him to make the same speech to oil workers 100 times a day.[64] The CNE opened an investigation into Rafael Ramírez following the protests from the opposition.

Unity through threats!

 

[Solaris]

Counter-revolutionaries have no place in the oil industry.

Really though, you've posted nothing except a quote about someone running for presidency and something about some Oil company.

 

[Raziaar]

Counter-revolutionaries have no place in the oil industry.

Really though, you've posted nothing except a quote about someone running for presidency and something about some Oil company.

I posted that the guy had plans to immensely help the poor. You know... those people you care for as long as they share your views.

 

[Solaris]

I posted that the guy had plans to immensely help the poor. You know... those people you care for as long as they share your views.

Help the poor?
How about:

"Bolivarian Missions" have entailed the launching of government anti-poverty initiatives,[92][93] the construction of thousands of free medical clinics for the poor,[94] the institution of educational campaigns that have reportedly made more than one million adult Venezuelans literate,[95][96] and the enactment of food[97] and housing subsidies.[98] There have been marked improvements in the infant mortality rate between 1998 and 2006.[99][100] The government earmarked 44.6% of the 2007 budget for social investment
The , with 1999-2007 averaging 12.8% of GDP.[101]