Software pirates not safe at home

[Cybernoid]

oh noes

An Australian person is going get extradited to the United States for doing warez. He could face up to ten years in prison, where he will no doubt take it up the ass a million times until he kills himself or dies from HIV. That seems just a little overkill to me.

 

[-JeZ-]

Ouchie. Still, at least the get a free plane ride to the states!

 

[Burn]

Does'nt seem like overkill to me, he had 50mil odd of mp3s/games etc. Theres a big diffence between downloading afew games and some music, then doing this, 50mill does make a big dent in profits.

 

[Cybernoid]

Does'nt seem like overkill to me, he had 50mil odd of mp3s/games etc. Theres a big diffence between downloading afew games and some music, then doing this, 50mill does make a big dent in profits.

Well, if it doesn't seem overkill to you we might as well start executing warez offenders. Yeah, kill the ****ing lot of them. Start the gas chambers and fire up the ovens. Justice for all!

 

[SLH]

Well, if it doesn't seem overkill to you we might as well start executing warez offenders. Yeah, kill the ****ing lot of them. Start the gas chambers and fire up the ovens. Justice for all!

I fail too see how this post forms part of a persuasive argument.

Please explain how this post is supposed to support your view.

 

[lePobz]

Sarcasm... I guess.

I hope this guy was one of those that distributed the stuff for personal profit. There's a bit of a difference in believing in free media, and stealing media to sell for your own profit.

 

[Cybernoid]

I fail too see

Unfortunate.

 

[ShadowFox]

The Mistress made a perfectly good point, which you completely ignore. It is unfortunate that you lack the capacity to see the issue here.

This isn't having a couple of songs or games. Hell, this is isn't a couple hundred songs or games. 50 freakin million dollars worth of stuff. Now even downloading productivity software which can go up around 5 thousand dollars a piece, that is a lot of crap.

 

[SLH]

Unfortunate.

Oops, i made a typo (typographical error), however my point remains valid.

 

[Kangy]

Photocopy and sell the ticket ;D

 

[Link]

Well, if it doesn't seem overkill to you we might as well start executing warez offenders. Yeah, kill the ****ing lot of them. Start the gas chambers and fire up the ovens. Justice for all!

Thats a quick wit you have there...

So just because he commited a crime more than others, he should only be punished as much as lesser offenders.

Say a guy ran somone over and drove off, then never hit anyone else, but another guy hits people and drives of several times. Should he only get the same punishment as the first guy???

Crime accumulates. So should punishment.

 

[Some_God]

Damn... he should;ve known better.

 

[No Limit]

Many people that think this is overkill don't understand the real world. Sure, it's great how you can download games and music online without paying a dime. What you don't see is how much money it cost to make that song or that game and how much money the developer loses with cases like these. 50 million is not a drop in the bucket, it's a HUGE deal.

Everytime you download something you are stealing it, it is absolutely no different than walking into a store and stealing it. If someone walks into a store and steals 50 million dollars worth of games and then sells those games do you think he should then be arrested? Again, this is no different.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

I'm not feeling sorry for anyone... Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

[Kangy]

Many people that think this is overkill don't understand the real world. Sure, it's great how you can download games and music online without paying a dime. What you don't see is how much money it cost to make that song or that game and how much money the developer loses with cases like these. 50 million is not a drop in the bucket, it's a HUGE deal.

Well, think of it this way.

We're helping rich ****ers like Christina Aguilera live a better lifestyle.

 

[No Limit]

Well, think of it this way.

We're helping rich ****ers like Christina Aguilera live a better lifestyle.

That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. If you download her music you obviously like it; therefore, she is providing you with a service that you have to pay for. If you do not pay for that service you are stealing it. Incase some people have trouble in english here are 2 defenitions for theft, one from a regular dictionary and one from a legal dictionary:
Dictionary.com:

theft - The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.

and the defenition in dictionary for stole:

To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

and the legal defenition:

theft
n. the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale).

There you go, you are stealing. In this world you have to pay to get something, stupid excuses like "I don't want the rich getting richer" don't make a justified argument. People in the entertainment world get rich because they have talent, to get their talent you have to pay for it, simple as that.

 

[Kangy]

That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. If you download her music you obviously like it; therefore, she is providing you with a service that you have to pay for.

Actually, I was doing the sarchy.

I rarely download music and keep it if I don't intend to buy it.

 

[No Limit]

Actually, I was doing the sarchy.

I rarely download music and keep it if I don't intend to buy it.

Sorry to jump all over you like that. I hear that stupid ass excuse all the time.

 

[Cybernoid]

The Mistress made a perfectly good point, which you completely ignore. It is unfortunate that you lack the capacity to see the issue here.

I lack the capacity to see that ten years of assraping is a very good punishment for warez?

Uh...

 

[AudioRage]

You're missing the point.

It doesn't matter what it is, it matters that he had 50 Million dollars worth of stolen property.

If I break into a bank and steal 50 million dollars and then get caught, should I get a slap on the wrist?

 

[Cybernoid]

You're missing the point.

It doesn't matter what it is, it matters that he had 50 Million dollars worth of stolen property.

If I break into a bank and steal 50 million dollars and then get caught, should I get a slap on the wrist?

So torture is your idea of justice?

 

[AudioRage]

How do you know he's to get assraped? for this type of crime he's sure to be put into a minimum to medium security prison, which means alot of guys that are also in there on nonviolent crimes, and such.

You can't steal 50 million dollars and think its ok.

Edit: Another point, I thought you were debating the time for that crime, not the United States Justice system as a whole.

If its the latter, Don't get me started, because I probally share your views.

 

[Cybernoid]

How do you know he's to get assraped?

I just find it extremely probable because the US cares very little about human rights.

 

[AudioRage]

I refer you to my edit.

 

[el Chi]

Well, if it doesn't seem overkill to you we might as well start executing warez offenders. Yeah, kill the ****ing lot of them. Start the gas chambers and fire up the ovens. Justice for all!

Are you insane? Extraditing someone to face a court might sound like a lot, but then $50 million in illegally downloaded files is really something unbelievable. How much time did he spend in front of his PC? Did he even want that many files or was he obsessive compulsive?
TheMistress and AudioRage are absolutely right.

And would people please stop saying he's been sentenced to "assraping" - it's coincidental to his punishment, not a condition of his incaceration.

 

[Cybernoid]

Are you insane? Extraditing someone to face a court might sound like a lot

Problem with extraditing him somewhere is that the US would never do the same.

And would people please stop saying he's been sentenced to "assraping" - it's coincidental to his punishment, not a condition of his incaceration.

I have a feeling that the prisoner in question won't care if it's "coincidental" or not. Why don't you try it some day? Spend a year or two in a jail. It'll be fun.

 

[el Chi]

Problem with extraditing him somewhere is that the US would never do the same.

Probably very true.

I have a feeling that the prisoner in question won't care if it's "coincidental" or not. Why don't you try it some day? Spend a year or two in a jail. It'll be fun.

Not my point. You make it sound as if the judge said:
"You have been convicted by a jury of your peers [well, not exactly but go with it] of stealing music, software and movies with a total worth of $50 million. I hereby sentence you to ten years of anal rape as a fair and just punishment for your crime."

Once you get into discussion like that it's not about his case anymore, it's about the prison and judicial system as a whole, so don't make them out to be the same thing.

Also, I feel that if he had shoplifted products amassing that ridiculous quantity of money this thread wouldn't even have been started unless it was to marvel at the amount of stuff he had managed to get away with stealing.

 

[Cybernoid]

Fine. We agree to disagree: you support rape, I don't. There.

 

[el Chi]

Fine. We agree to disagree: you support rape, I don't. There.

Uh-huh. I can only laugh at that summation, I'm afraid.
One fine way to try and win an argument; make a completely false and near-libelous slur against your opponent.

 

[Cybernoid]

Uh-huh. I can only laugh at that summation, I'm afraid.

Well, I can see why the subject of rape makes you laugh.

 

[el Chi]

Well, I can see why the subject of rape makes you laugh.

Seriously, that's just childish. You're proving nothing, and I'm not going to get through to you because you're ignoring what I'm saying and just being insulting. I think we should just bring our witty discourse to a close here.

At no point did I say any of the following:
a) Rape is acceptable
b) People in prison deserve to be raped
c) That thief deserves to be extradited
d) That thief deserves to be raped

You steal things you go to prison, that's the way the justice system works and I doubt you'd have a problem with that if someone went to prison for stealing your belongings. All that is different in this guy's case is the method and that's where your gripe comes from, as far as I can see. I agree with you that extraditing him is over the top, but then you made out that it was only a step away from rounding up anyone who had ever illegally downloaded software or music and violating them. And then you accused me of being in favor of rape because I disagreed with you. What a well constructed argument.

 

[Beast206]

Well, I can see why the subject of rape makes you laugh.

Depends on the circumstance. If I see a large man wearing a Budweiser hat and a sleeveless flannel shirt dry humping a mannequin at the local mall..... yeah... that cracks me the hell up.

Similarly, if a child molester gets locked up and finds himself at the mercies of a large, uncouth individual in the showers.... that also cracks me the hell up. *shrug* I'm probably demented though.

 

[AudioRage]

Seriously, that's just childish. You're proving nothing, and I'm not going to get through to you because you're ignoring what I'm saying and just being insulting. I think we should just bring our witty discourse to a close here.

At no point did I say any of the following:
a) Rape is acceptable
b) People in prison deserve to be raped
c) That thief deserves to be extradited
d) That thief deserves to be raped

You steal things you go to prison, that's the way the justice system works and I doubt you'd have a problem with that if someone went to prison for stealing your belongings. All that is different in this guy's case is the method and that's where your gripe comes from, as far as I can see. I agree with you that extraditing him is over the top, but then you made out that it was only a step away from rounding up anyone who had ever illegally downloaded software or music and violating them. And then you accused me of being in favor of rape because I disagreed with you. What a well constructed argument.

I noticed that too, he would pick the most inconsequential part of my post and quote it like it was the only part that mattered when it was in fact the part that mattered the least.

 

[el Chi]

Yeah. He absolutely ignored the fact that the guy had stolen $50 million dollars worth of stuff - that's more money than the majority of the world's populous will ever see in their lives. That's an absurd amount of money and if you steal, you go to prison. If he gets mistreated, that's undoubtedly a shame, but puely because I was stating the obvious by pointing out that he deserved to go to prison, apparently that means I advocate rape. Interesting train of logic.

Cybernoid didn't prove anything and to be honest I'm sure the only reason he's defending this guy is because he uses warez too. If this guy had stolen the same amount from shops this would not be a debate.

 

[ShadowFox]

Cybernoid, you are either really naive of really ignorant. Prison is something that SHOULD be feared. You should NOT want to go to prison.

However, how you have come to the conclusion that the US poor with civil rights due to this is WELL beyond me. What do you think prisons are for, for christs sake? What would you do? Give him a ****ing slap on the wrist? This isn't you're average downloader.

THIS IS 50 MILLION DOLLARS FOR PETES SAKE.

 

[Kyorisu]

50 million is too much.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

50 million is too much.

Yeah, that's just insane. I used to download Mp3s all the time before I decided to do the right thing and buy my CDs, and even after nearly 5 years I only amassed about 400 songs.

 

[Phisionary]

I think that 50 million number is bull. I don't see how that could even be possible... If you assume it's all music, say 15 bucks a CD, it would be 3.5 million CDs.
1) I doubt there are that many cd's available for DL on all the p2p nets.
2) It would be practically impossible for someone to actually listen to that much stuff. In their whole life... and since there was no physical product actually stolen, the only monetary loss is that of lost potential revenue... If you download 50 times as much music as you are actually capable of listening to, that's a sign of a mental illness, not a career criminal.

Okay, you might say "Well it wasn't all music it was software and software costs a lot more". First off, I'd bet money (REAL money) that whetever metric used for the value of software and other similar things fails to take into account actual market value. That's the way law enforcement (or the media that covers such issue, etc.) always deals with things like that. They make the highest estimate that could possibly exist, like the retail price of software as sold by the most expensive retailer you can find. never mind that DOS 6.12 no longer is worth $120. This is of course just an example, I don't know what they found. I'd like to emphasize that that $50mil. figure feels like total baloney.

well, okay. I admit it. I was once involved in the p2p file trading scene. I once DL'd some piece of 3d software that had a list price of $16,000 dollars plus. Now, if a company had downloaded it, and used it to make millions of dollars through their 3d modeling business, yeah, there's some crime for ya'. I do not condone that (please don't mention anything about 'selective morals' or that kind of bull I'll just ignore it). So does everybody here agree that that 600meg hunk of bits on my hard-drive was tantamount to going out and stealing someones brand-new 2004 civic out of their driveway? If you do, you're nuts. A month later I was like 'Why'd I download that crap' and deleted it, never having unzipped it even... so if the feds came in and said "Class x feleny, theft, $10-20 thousand." would anyone go for that? No, that's rediculous. If this guy downloaded a hundred games, two hundred, ten thousand, all the software in the world, can this possibly justify 10 YEARS in prison? Software theft, in the virtual world of the internet, can only really be viewed in terms of financial profit lost by the creators of the original authors. Can anyone say that this guy would have bought 50 million bucks worth? Not a chance, he (like me in this account) probably never even looked at it...

And, if this is a federal case (I'll assume if he's extradited from a foreign country), then that 10 years would really be 10 years... hell, manslaughter can go for only a few years. Murder can for less htan that. Any non-federal sentancing can be drastically reduced from what was sentanced through the parole system... that's an unreasonable number.

The ONLY way I could accept a sentance ever near that kind of number would be if this guy is actively involved in redistributing this content, and then only if it had been at a profit. That's theft, fair and square. That's making money from someone else not making it. Even if he'd left on his connection, and let the internet at large DL a thousand gigabytes of whatever he had, that wouldn't be enough, IMO.

and, well, I'll not touch the rape issue. rape CAN be funny. I DL'd george carlin telling me so
^^except to say:^^

Prison is something that SHOULD be feared. You should NOT want to go to prison.

Feared, perhaps. But prison should not be a cautionary tale of possible death and/or sexual assault. Or maybe you think those Iraqi's had it coming...

 

[Neutrino]

I just find it extremely probable because the US cares very little about human rights.

Are you even capable of making a rational argument?

Sorry, that's a bit rude, but you really don't have any idea what your talking about.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Fine. We agree to disagree: you support rape, I don't. There.

From every post I've ever seen you make, when you try to debate you do so horribly and take HUGE extremes and make wild, baseless, and aggravating accusations. You always seem to be on the wrong side of an issue, and when it's not one that has a "wrong or right" side you manage to severely hurt how people with your opinion come across.

In no way did he somehow support rape.