Sony may win next-gen war

[Axyon]

Until one hour ago I thought that X-box would rock, but after seeing the Killzone 2 trailer I've changed my mind.

Please search around, this has been said so many times now it's incredible - it's pre-rendered.

 

[Sir Phoenixx]

Why does it matter if it's real time or pre-rendered? They didn't have the time to fully program and make the engine and an entire working level, aircraft, vehicles, characters, etc. with physics and such for their games (like Killzone), so they scripted/animated it and pre-rendered it. They said that what they're showing is what they think the PS3 is/will be able to do, so I don't think it matters if they show off a pre-rendered movie made on similar system specs at the office, or actual gameplay on the system at the show, it would still pretty much be the same thing, and all they're trying to show off there is the graphics and power.

Only a couple of them looked a little too good to be real time, like Killzone and the dirt racing game. They proved that the Unreal 3 demo was real time. The GT5 one didn't look pre-rendered (looked like a slightly upgraded GT4 engine with more environment details like trees), that FPS game with the marble statue in the beginning looked real time, and the old west demo and the Getaway-ish demo didn't look "too-amazing-to-be-real-time", etc.

 

[OCybrManO]

Sounding a lot like they did with the PS2 when they claimed it was more powerful than the Xbox and the Gamecube. Turned out it was the weakest of the three.

There's a huge difference this time around. Microsoft waited a year after the PS2 was released to make their system more powerful before they launched the Xbox. This time, Microsoft doesn't really have any advantages. This time around, the Xbox 360 is supposed to release several months before the PS3... giving Sony time to react. Also, Sony has the biggest following going into this generation (meaning most people will probably wait for the PS3... as was the case with the Dreamcast and the PS2... and you know how that turned out).

They showed plenty of real-time demonstations of the console's power during the press conference. The only part of the conference that probably consisted mostly of pre-rendered videos was the last part showing you what to expect the games to be like when utilizing the capacity of the final version of the PS3. They probably did that because the developers only had 2 months to throw a demo video together and (like the Xbox 360) some of the PS3's components weren't running at full speed.

 

[No Limit]

on the same site there's an article that claims the ps3 will be $465 US ..more in europe


I think some of you are missing the point: this is a financial analysts opinion ..he's looking at cold hard figures (based on market predictions) as to the upswing in games sales ..that wont be dramatically increased till the ps3 is released ...it's not based on specs or graphics or even games but rather on market share:



"Pachter predicts that game purchases by both Xbox and PS2 owners will slow down as the release date for each next-gen console draws near and that only the hardcore fanbase will purchase them in the months immediately following launch, making 2006 transitionary year. But 2007 will see "the ramp", says Pachter - "the PS3, the Xbox 360 and the Nintendo Revolution and PSP all out and starting to mature."

Sounds dead on, hasn't this been the trend with every next gen console to this time?

 

[CptStern]

ya but it think it was reversed last time round ...now I finally understand why the ps2 came out way before the xbox ..it had nothing to do with tech and everything to do with market share

 

[Cons Himself]

Article from some nobody versus the footage we've seen of the Xbox 360 and its games, with potential for many years of games with ever-increasing quality. Hmm.

The games shown for the Xbox 360 are currently running on alpha developer kits, which match about 25-40% of the console's actual capability.

dude this nobodies job is to analyse the games industry from a financial perspective. he got it spot on cos we wont see huge sales until both consoles are out and people have had a chanc to evaluate them and make their choice as to which to buy. plus the fact that there is always a transition year whilst the consoles build up their install base.

you could never work on wall street you know that ?

 

[Axyon]

dude this nobodies job is to analyse the games industry from a financial perspective. he got it spot on cos we wont see huge sales until both consoles are out and people have had a chanc to evaluate them and make their choice as to which to buy. plus the fact that there is always a transition year whilst the consoles build up their install base.

you could never work on wall street you know that ?

Never could, would never want to. I'm just tired of people writing off the Xbox 360 so quickly bceause of 'financial analysis' or simply because of papered PS3 specs and pre-rendered footage.

 

[CptStern]

people will write off each console for various reasons ...maybe it was my poorly chosen title but I doubt the majority of people who posted in this thread actually read the article

 

[Cons Himself]

Never could, would never want to. I'm just tired of people writing off the Xbox 360 so quickly bceause of 'financial analysis' or simply because of papered PS3 specs and pre-rendered footage.

Dude hes not writing anything off. Unlike you he doesnt see it as a battle between his team and the enemy. He aint no fanboy, Hes just down for cold hard facts and figures - hes staking his reputation and his companies reputation on what he thinks will be the outcome a 55/30/15 for Sony MS and Nintendo with an error of +/- 5 percent.

No fanboyism, just the market. And the market is always right - learn that young padawan

If youve ever worked on one of these financial analyses like I have youd know the number crunching that goes into them.

 

[Smack500]

I havent seen anything, from any of the consoles, thats better then the current top pc titles. None of have impressed me to much so far.

Im talking about in game play, not cut scenes.

 

[Axyon]

Dude hes not writing anything off. Unlike you he doesnt see it as a battle between his team and the enemy. He aint no fanboy, Hes just down for cold hard facts and figures - hes staking his reputation and his companies reputation on what he thinks will be the outcome a 55/30/15 for Sony MS and Nintendo with an error of +/- 5 percent.

No fanboyism, just the market. And the market is always right - learn that young padawan

If youve ever worked on one of these financial analyses like I have youd know the number crunching that goes into them.

Drop the patronizing crap. You'll notice I didn't pin the writeoff comment solely on his article, too. The console market is hugely unpredictable, and in this case 'cold hard facts and figures' just aren't going to cut it.

 

[Chav]

Never could, would never want to. I'm just tired of people writing off the Xbox 360 so quickly bceause of 'financial analysis' or simply because of papered PS3 specs and pre-rendered footage.

I think you are just a xbox fan

 

[Axyon]

I think you are just a xbox fan

Yes, I am. That's pretty much irrelevant for the next-gen consoles, though.

 

[jmjneary]

the graphics are going to be so incredible in next gen that all that will matter is games and online expierence yes I own ps2 and xbox i love both ps2 has lots of good games xbox has lots of good fps's and that is my fav genra as far as online goes xbox dilivers a sound kick in the pants to sony and thats something they seriously need to improve on

(this is just my opinion)

 

[jimbo118]

That's mostly why I thought they got it a bit wrong - Sony didn't actually show off any software, just pre-renders... "Confidence in their own product"? What did they expect?

"Oh, hey, we're not too sure how this will go. We're only going to make 200 initially, to see if they sell or not. If they don't, I guess we'll have to do something else."

it wasnt just pre rendered though, why does everyone say that, just coz of kz2 and that bike game?, gran turismo-ingame, f1-ingame, i-8-ingame, warhawk-ingame, killing day-ingame, 5th phantom-ingame,ue3 demo-tech demo, fight night-tech demo,getaway-ingame. western game-ingame cant remember the rest tbh.

im more excited for stuff like mgs4, silent hill 5, pro evo 6, devil may cry, ico sequels, grand theft auto etc.

 

[PickledGecko]

Anyone else think the XBox360 just seems to be an upgrade? I mean, Sony were going to (or did they?) release a PS2 with TiVo type stuff. Maybe this is just going to be an upgraded XBox with new features, but more importantly, fixed alot of things that put people off certain things. Like some free Live services and an optional HD to make it cheaper for those that don't need one.

It would make sense, I mean, when the PS3 comes out, then they can release a "proper" next gen console, if you see what I mean.

 

[Kangy]

it wasnt just pre rendered though, why does everyone say that, just coz of kz2 and that bike game?, gran turismo-ingame, f1-ingame, i-8-ingame, warhawk-ingame, killing day-ingame, 5th phantom-ingame,ue3 demo-tech demo, fight night-tech demo,getaway-ingame. western game-ingame cant remember the rest tbh.

im more excited for stuff like mgs4, silent hill 5, pro evo 6, devil may cry, ico sequels, grand theft auto etc.

Yeah, and those that they did show in-game are the ones that we'll see multi-platform, or with equal contenders from the Xbox 360... It's just not the software blitz that some people seem to be portraying it as.

Let's face it, nobody is even that bothered about the ones that weren't Killzone 2 or Motosport. Sony have pulled their usual tactic of putting out fancy eyecandy and big exaggerations in order to pull the easily impressed who'll be reading their standard gaming mags for all the info.

 

[jimbo118]

Yeah, and those that they did show in-game are the ones that we'll see multi-platform, or with equal contenders from the Xbox 360... It's just not the software blitz that some people seem to be portraying it as.

Let's face it, nobody is even that bothered about the ones that weren't Killzone 2 or Motosport. Sony have pulled their usual tactic of putting out fancy eyecandy and big exaggerations in order to pull the easily impressed who'll be reading their standard gaming mags for all the info.

xbox360 was hardly original, all pc ports, cod2, ghost recon3, quake4 etc

i say most of those ps3 games are exclusives but like i said launch titles generally dont interest me too much, have to wait for the type of games i listed.

 

[Kangy]

xbox360 was hardly original, all pc ports, cod2, ghost recon3, quake4 etc

i say most of those ps3 games are exclusives but like i said launch titles generally dont interest me too much, have to wait for the type of games i listed.

Actually, Ghost Recon 2 never made it to the PC, so I doubt that 3 will. If 360 is dictating the releases of Quake 4 and CoD2, surely they also become it's own? Plus, you can hardly call the in-game stuff on Gears of War, DoA 4 and Perfect Dark 0 PC ports, now, can you?

 

[Cons Himself]

Drop the patronizing crap. You'll notice I didn't pin the writeoff comment solely on his article, too. The console market is hugely unpredictable, and in this case 'cold hard facts and figures' just aren't going to cut it.

Yes but if it wasnt for his article, you would never have posted your inane BS post. Goddamit I wasted 2 seconds of my life reading your crap. I can never get those 2 seconds back and its all your dammed fault. If I were half the man I was 5 years ago i'd introduce you to the business end of my shoe whilst wearing a Cary Grant-esque perpetual scowl on my face. Damm im such a badass.

323, 456 losers thought the article was a fanboy bit of console-bashing.

 

[Kangy]

Good Sir, you fail at being Maddox.

 

[jimbo118]

Actually, Ghost Recon 2 never made it to the PC, so I doubt that 3 will. If 360 is dictating the releases of Quake 4 and CoD2, surely they also become it's own? Plus, you can hardly call the in-game stuff on Gears of War, DoA 4 and Perfect Dark 0 PC ports, now, can you?

yeah but cod2 etc are pc games, those others you listed will more than likely be pc available too like a most xbox games, thats why i dont care much for the xbox360, if you have a decent pc then why bother? it just feels like its a nice high end pc for people who dont pc game.

 

[Cons Himself]

yes but im spreading the good word all the same.

if everyone on the internet was just 0.1% Maddox we'd all have a much better time of it

 

[Kangy]

yes but im spreading the good word all the same.

if everyone on the internet was just 0.1% Maddox we'd all have a much better time of it

Slightly off-topic here, but there's only room for one hilariously grumpy jerk out there really.

Jimbo, I'd rather get a 360 than continually upgrade my PC if it'll continue to grab PC releases. Why? Because it costs a lot less, I can play them in the best online environment out there as well as on my couch in super-nice HD. Frankly, I'm questioning whether or not to bother saving for my next PC upgrade.

 

[jimbo118]

Slightly off-topic here, but there's only room for one hilariously grumpy jerk out there really.

Jimbo, I'd rather get a 360 than continually upgrade my PC if it'll continue to grab PC releases. Why? Because it costs a lot less, I can play them in the best online environment out there as well as on my couch in super-nice HD. Frankly, I'm questioning whether or not to bother saving for my next PC upgrade.

yes i agree with you, i'd say the same for me probably getting a ps3, i more than likely will upgrade once maybe twice but then just play my ps3 as its more cost effective.

but im just going on atm and obviously speaking for myself, i can play cod2 etc well so i dont really need a xbox and like i previously said the games i follow are playstation series games. anyway i want go and watch tv and have a cuppa, nice talking to you. :cheers:

 

[westie]

Sony recons PS3 is more powerfull than PC's at the moment, will that change soon?
Killzone looks cool though!

 

[jimbo118]

Sony recons PS3 is more powerfull than PC's at the moment, will that change soon?
Killzone looks cool though!

ofcourse overtime, within 6 months- a year pcs will technically be more advanced than the ps3/xbox3 blabla.

 

[westie]

Good, i wanna get a new PC but if the consoles are more powerful and have mouse, keyboard support they mite be the way to go.

 

[Chav]

Yes, I am. That's pretty much irrelevant for the next-gen consoles, though.

well you seem to "care" alot (maybe to much) about people bashing the xbox 360 and the so called pre-rendered trailer.

 

[Cons Himself]

Slightly off-topic here, but there's only room for one hilariously grumpy jerk out there really.

if everyone was grumpy and a jerk, you wouldnt get people on the Internet getting upset about things.

 

[Lemonking]

it doesnt look good but Im digging the Gameplay

 

[Absinthe]

Cons, shut up. You're a moron. Just... stop trying, okay? I could do without your stupid ****ing condescension in my current intoxicated state.

 

[torso boy]

Sony has shown the only real time demonstrations of a "next generation" console . Every single Playstation3 TECH DEMO was shown in real time. This includes Unreal Engine 3, Fight Night, and the demos shown by Phil Harrison (at around 50 min into press conference). Nothing else was in real time, the rest was demo reels of videos sent in by developers currently working on games. Most of them were probably actual footage, but Killzone (and maybe MotorStorm) was not.

On the xbox side of things since nothing was shown in real time the only way to judge the power fairly is to look at games developed exclusively for xbox360(Only xbox360, not even PCs). The only videos that people were impressed with are videos that could easily be from their PC counterpart. Rare's games and Dead or Alive 4 are the only games that you can that are definately an example of what the system can do.

Now I'm not sure about everyone else, but I'm more impressed by fluid physics and very realistic citys rendered in real time than a video of a bunch of people horsing around in some guy's apartment.

 

[qckbeam]

The 360 is an incredibly powerful console, and quite frankly, I'm willing to believe a company that shows a demo reel consisting entirely of in-game footage over one that would very slyly stick pre-rendered footage in amongst real stuff. That Killzone trailer has been confirmed as a fake a few times now. It was entirely fabricated by artists in the UK and has nothing to do with PS3 hardware. That was a very cheap tactic. If it’s a concept video, or a video showing us what could be, mark it as such. Don’t pass it off as a recording of an actual game.

 

[Pibborando San]

Sony showed off much more in-game footage than pre-rendered. The only pre-rendered ones were Killzone 2 and MotorStorm. The rest like: All of the amazing tech demos, the Fight Night demo, the Unreal 2007 demo, the I-8 demo, the Vision GT demo, Vision FF7 demo, the DarkSector trailer, the Ni-Oh trailer, and Rockstar's old west game were all in-game, and I thought were visually superior to anything that was shown on the Xbox 360 (maybe except for GoW).

And just because something isn't in-game doesn't mean it's a "fake." The developers (as the Epic rep stated) only had a couple months to get aquainted with the hardware so why would it be surprising to see a pre-rendered trailer? Sony never said the Killzone 2 trailer was in-game, and yet you're all outraged that it's not. It is exciting however to think that the PS3 could possibly deliver a final experience close to that, and that's what it was meant for. To build excitement.

And don't think that everything that Microsoft showed was in-game. The Project Gothem 3 trailer obviously was not, and it's pretty obvious that the Ghost Recon 3 trailer wasn't all legit. But I'm not bashing M$ here. And I don't want there to be an all out winner of this new "console war." The more competition, the better for everyone because each side will be trying to outdo eachother.

I'm just worried that the 360 might turn into another Dreamcast. I mean, it's releasing ahead of everyone else, it's hardware isn't as powerful as Sony's, and... it's white for god sakes. And it has a big circular logo...

Well, let's hope all this will get straightened out. I just wan to play some next-gen games.

 

[Zeus]

I just saw the FF7 tech demo, and if they announce a ff7 remake for ps3, I'm going to buy it.

 

[Stigmata]

And just because something isn't in-game doesn't mean it's a "fake."

It does if you're trying to pass it off as in-game footage.

Sony never said the Killzone 2 trailer was in-game.

But they didn't exactly say it was pre-rendered, now did they?

And don't think that everything that Microsoft showed was in-game. The Project Gothem 3 trailer obviously was not, and it's pretty obvious that the Ghost Recon 3 trailer wasn't all legit.

Pretty obvious? I'd be hard-pressed to find anything incriminating about those demo reels.

I'm just worried that the 360 might turn into another Dreamcast. I mean, it's releasing ahead of everyone else, it's hardware isn't as powerful as Sony's, and... it's white for god sakes. And it has a big circular logo...

Logo and color scheme have precisely zero impact on how good the software is. Besides, it's stylish. Custom-colored faceplates -> "base coat"-tinted console shell \o/

 

[Pibborando San]

Logo and color scheme have precisely zero impact on how good the software is. Besides, it's stylish. Custom-colored faceplates -> "base coat"-tinted console shell \o/

You must not have caught the sarcasm in my words about the 360 being just like the Dreamcast. I was just messin around with strange coincidences.

And about the legitity of the Microsoft demos: The exact PG3 trailer I was refering to is the one found HERE and is the one dated 5/17/05. It is VERY obvious that it is pre-rendered. As someone who animates in 3D, I have sort of have an eye for it, but the motion blur and perfect framerate give it away totally. I have no trouble believing that the trailer marked one day later (today) is in-game. But the one I was refuring to was the one shown at Microsoft's press conference.
As for the GR3 supposed "in-game" stuff: I can believe it's real-time, but the movement does not look at all like someone is actually playing.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have a vendetta against the 360 or Microsoft. Well... maybe Microsoft. But I'm just trying to get everything straight.

 

[<RJMC>]

I remenber someone hav posted pics from a prerendered trailer of gears of war or another game suposed to be in the next xbox and the article whit the trailer and pics say that the game will hav very similiar graphics and see how good gears of wars looks and the pics looked very GCI

I cant find the thread but should be there

and why I am saying this well maybe this killzone video is the same tatic?

still sony hav showed this so they hav 2 options delyver a game whit close graphics of confirm is all fake and that will be the sony fail

 

[Ames]

I can accept Gears of War is not prerendered and is real-time because it has nowhere near the level of detail of the Killzone 2 movie and does not at all look like prerendered graphics but more like a next-gen game. Plus, we have wireframes and we can still see the polygons in the models. We have confirmation from developers who have worked with UE3 and can provide the same level of detail as shown in those videos.

There are also the old demos from previous events which provide more than enough evidence to prove it's real-time. Epic would not be stupid enough to release a demo of an engine that they are trying to sell that's prerendered.