soo umm Doom 3

[Seppo]

Oh man, imagine what duels will be like in Doom 3. In a relatively large map with narrow and dark corridors, it would be awesome to hide in the shadows waiting for the victim to walk by.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah MP in this game is gonna be intense. One of the main things I love is it's going to have true per-pixel hit detection, no hitboxes, so if you fire a bullet it literally has to hit the enemy model, not just near hits. That is so damn cool. They even said the bullets themselves are affected by the physics so theoretically they can be shot out of the air with other bullets. I imagine the pros will become experts at shooting rockets out of the sky right as an enemy launches them. Not to mention the lighting and the actual object physics....yes, Doom3 is going to own.

 

[Neutrino]

But the best thing about multiplayer is you can see your enemies shadows. You have to be careful when walking in front of lights as it very well might give your position away.

 

[x84D80Yx]

damn all this mp talk is making me want d3 more and more. all ive been hearing is mostly about the single player.

 

[Mac]

interesting sergio, I'll have to take that back. btw, what is this 'Splash Damage' you speak of. sounds like a company. You saying they let another company do the mapping?

edit: er wait, I'm confusing splash damage with slash damage...

sergio, you said something about outsourcing the mapping to splash damage. Not sure what that means.

and somone else said 'slash damage' was interested in the engine.

someone clear up my confusedness

edit2: er sergio, you said both thing, lol. did you mean splash damage or slash damage and what does it mean or what is it

 

[Sergio]

Yeah MP in this game is gonna be intense. One of the main things I love is it's going to have true per-pixel hit detection, no hitboxes, so if you fire a bullet it literally has to hit the enemy model, not just near hits. That is so damn cool. They even said the bullets themselves are affected by the physics so theoretically they can be shot out of the air with other bullets. I imagine the pros will become experts at shooting rockets out of the sky right as an enemy launches them. Not to mention the lighting and the actual object physics....yes, Doom3 is going to own.

It goes even further. To inflict more damage you must hit in the fleshy, unarmoured part of the model. Hitting the metal armour protected parts of the model will result in less damage being inflicted, and this is also per pixel hit detected. Way cool.

btw, what is this 'Splash Damage' you speak of. sounds like a company.

Splash Damage is a london based developer. They did Enemy Territory.

sergio, you said something about outsourcing the mapping to splash damage. Not sure what that means

Id has hired out to the developer Splash Damage to do alot of the mapping in the MP portion of the game, freeing up id artists to focus on the SP portion of the game.

and somone else said 'slash damage' was interested in the engine.

After having worked with the engine during their work on Doom3 MP, Splash Damage has announced that they are now developing a full game on the Doom3 engine.

It's pretty cool because while they were still working on Doom3 MP maps, they were making buggies and other flying vehicles and playing with them. This kind of stuff won't be in Doom3 ofcourse, since id doesn't want that type of thing in their game. But this new game that Splash damage is making will likely be on a large scale with some vehicles.

er sergio, you said both thing, lol. did you mean splash damage or slash damage and what does it mean or what is it

Any time I said Splash Damage in this thread I was referring to the London based game developer. Here is a link to their website: http://www.splashdamage.com

Hope that clears up any confusion.

 

[Mac]

oh alright, gotchya

cool stuff on the mp.. guess ill keep it

 

[Styloid]

I thought the four player limit was because of the per-pixel hit detection and the realtime shadows.... with my computer I'm not even sure if I can have more than 4 characters on screen in single player....

Anyways.... I used to be hyped up on D3 to be the 'next big thing' for me (after DNF disappeared) but the back to basics gameplay + scariness Id are talking about just doesn't appeal to me. I still check up on it to see how it's doing but nothing has really wowed me (particularly the recent xbox previews).

 

[Sergio]

I thought the four player limit was because of the per-pixel hit detection and the realtime shadows.... with my computer I'm not even sure if I can have more than 4 characters on screen in single player....

No, as I have stated there is no "4 player limit". It's just that the MP is designed for four players out of the box. It isn't a limit. It is as easy to change as it is in any other game. They just limited their focus and designed it for 4 player combat so that it wouldn't take their focus away form the main attraction.

This has nothing to do with the SP though. There will be many occasions where you will fight more than 4 enemies at a time. Journalists have described instances where a dozen imps spawn at once and ambush you. There will be plenty of these situations, I'm sure.

but the back to basics gameplay + scariness Id are talking about just doesn't appeal to me.

What do you mean by back to basics gameplay? Doom3 is not a standard run + shoot + run + shoot. There are plenty of the same elements of physics integrated gameplay that you find in hl2. For instance at one point you come across a room with leaking containers of toxic waste. In order to get throug hthis room you must use a remot operated loading crane to pick up some of the corpses lying around to "plug up" the containers. This is similar to a situation recently described in hl2 where you will operate a crane to relocate things.

Also in Doom3, the smarter enemies like demons will know what objects are potential weapons, and they will pick them up and throw them. Larger demons like the hellknight will even pick up zombies and toss them at you(you saw this in the e3 video). Imaginee a chainsaw zombie walking slowly to you with the chainsaw roaring, then a hellknight comes up behind him and liftes him into the air and chucks him at you, chainsaw still going.

Plus the developers have stated that Doom3 has it's share of physics traps and things like that, and you will be utilizing physics to achieve goals or defeat enemies.

I don't know where people get the idea that gameplay in Doom3 is no different than the old Dooms.

 

[Sergio]

Another cool thing with physics is that there are spirits that you don't actually even see, but they harass you and chuck objects at you to tomrent you. If you have seen the part in the e3 vid with the zombie corpses being twirled around and tossed throug the air, this is the work of the "demonic Force" or demonic spirits/spectres. they will attack you in this way and torment you.

 

[x84D80Yx]

thx Sergio, you sure are helping me "know" doom3 better. sounds really good cant wait
you sure your not PR for ID? lol just kiddin.

 

[Styloid]

I always thought puzzles were part of the 'basic' package.

 

[Sergio]

I always thought puzzles were part of the 'basic' package.

So do I. What are you referring to? The crane sequence? That isn't a puzzel, id calls it a "minigame". A game inside a game, small breaks in the horror fest to just kick back and have a few moments of fun without worrying what is lurking in the shadow behind you. It isn't a puzzle. There is nothing to figure out. I don't think Doom3 will have any puzzles at all. What I really hate in games is the jumping puzzles like in hl1. Those are so annoying, I hope hl2 won't have them.

 

[Styloid]

Basic gameplay just doesn't seem to interest me anymore that's all....

 

[Sergio]

Basic gameplay just doesn't seem to interest me anymore that's all....

I don't fault you there. All I'm saying is that this doesn't accurately describe Doom3. Doom3 is modern in gameplay as much as it is in graphics. If you believe otherwise, then you are not supported by the facts. Up to you.

 

[x84D80Yx]

Basic gameplay just doesn't seem to interest me anymore that's all....

i really dont see alot of signs of doom3 being basic gameplay.

 

[Styloid]

um... what is your idea of modern gameplay?

 

[lethal]

I will certainly be playing both games. I wanted to play some Far Cry but when I heard about MP sucking, I didnt fork out the cash.

 

[Sergio]

um... what is your idea of modern gameplay?

Gameplay which includes aspects of the newest capabilities in games. The newest being extensive physics capabilities. Doom3 also has other modern gaming elements such as extensive shadow capabilities, and this can be considered another aspect of modern gameplay in doom3 due to the way id has implimented it as part of way a person interacts with the environments. I would also consider ample interaction with environment and NPCs as an aspect of modern gameplay, both of which Doom3 has. Another thing is AI ofcourse, which Doom3 has. id didn't intend on doing much with AI at first, but since the engine turned out to be so GPU dependant, Carmack said he had the extra CPU cycles to spare on a more extensive AI system.

There isn't anything Doom3 lacks in modern gameplay elements.

 

[x84D80Yx]

um... what is your idea of modern gameplay?

good graphics
good AI
good psychics
and a good story to go with these 3 gameplay aspects.

seems d3 will have alot of this.

what is your idea of modern gameplay?

 

[Soundwave]

It's great to see so many Doom3 fans around these parts. I was feeling cold and alone for awhile there

 

[x84D80Yx]

well i gotta admit, last year before hl2 was delayed i was bashing doom3 as much as the next guy on these forums. i guess the delay helped me notice there were other things to look forward to rather than to just one game. doom3 just keeps looking better every day.

 

[Styloid]

I've always wanted to have much more complex sequences to experience (I was impressed by the NOLF skydive mission). I would really want a game to have 'scenes' where a real variety of different actions can be authored instead of the kill things/press buttons and game designer changes the setting.
I also want to see characters become a more prominent role in the game rather than the come-and-go characters that you have to rescue/lead somewhere once in a while.
There's a lot more but this could be an interesting discussion and I'll probably get a chance to post again.

 

[Mac]

What exactly do you mean by 'a variety of different actions can be authored'

elaborate if you will..

 

[Styloid]

You are a sheriff. You walk into a bar and suddenly there's a hush and the pianist stops playing. A group of thugs stand up in the corner of the room. They start heckling and taunting you. Some of the people near them nervously shift away. They start shooting and a lamp falls over the place begins to burn and everyone starts running out of the room but the thugs grab a hostage and run up stairs.....

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I wish I did hate it so I could rant on about how much I hate it.

I could make posts like "Doom3 < sloppy turd" and "Doom3 == TechDemo", maybe I could even write "Doom3 == plastic funhouse".

At least that would make threads like this more interesting instead of having 52 people all saying "I can like Doom3 and HL2".

Well, we need a voice of negativity, so I'll be it.

Personal opinion time:

-Although a third of the monsters shown so far are pretty cool, the other two thirds appear to be ass.

-Can't use a flashlight and a gun at once?

-Also, a lot of the 3-d shader effects are still pretty flat. They just sorta shout: "Look! I'm a realistic effect!"

-What i've heard about the gameplay appears to be a tad similar to Half-life 1, only with in-your-face physics and graphics: Navigate subterranean tunnels with the help of recruitable scientists in a sprawling base after an accident warps in aliens and creates a series of traps and puzzles amid the debris, then go to their homeworld and finish the job! Completely immersive, since there are no cutscenes or mission screens!
None of those are bad things, but it doesn't sound original.
And don't tell me that doom did those first. They only invented the warping-in plot and the tunnel-like level structure.

-Hell is lame.


That said, those are the only reasons why I'm not on a Doom 3 forum right now, chatting it up there. The game looks great, and I'm definitely buying it.
But, I'm not expecting much more than a (very) superior version of Half-Life 1.

Discuss!

 

[Sergio]

-Although a third of the monsters shown so far are pretty cool, the other two thirds appear to be ass.

Which are ass, in your opinion? I like everything we have seen so far. Some people seem to have a problem with the trites, but I don't see why. They are supposed to look twisted and demented, and I think they do.

-Can't use a flashlight and a gun at once?

This is a great idea to create tension in a game that is so dark. You are the only person I have seen that has a problem with this. in real life you wouldn't be able to anyway. A pistol and a flashlight maybe, but nothing else. In hl2 the flashlight doesn't even exist in the game world, you just hit the flashlight button and a lightsource is created. In Doom3 the flashlight is a physical object you carry in your inventory, and if you want to use it you must pull it out, hence put something else away.

plus, the flashlight also serves as a meele weapon. So it's not like your are totally defensless with it out. But I think this is a great way to create the extra tension in the game. Don't forget it is a horror title.

Also, think if you could have the flashlight and a weapon out at the same time. Noone would put the flashlight away. In such a dark game with things lurking in the shadows, everyone would just keep the flashlight on at all times. This is a great way to make sure that doesn't happen.

-Also, a lot of the 3-d shader effects are still pretty flat. They just sorta shout: "Look! I'm a realistic effect!"

What shader effects are you referring to?

-What i've heard about the gameplay appears to be a tad similar to Half-life 1, only with in-your-face physics and graphics: Navigate subterranean tunnels with the help of recruitable scientists in a sprawling base after an accident warps in aliens and creates a series of traps and puzzles amid the debris, then go to their homeworld and finish the job! Completely immersive, since there are no cutscenes or mission screens!
None of those are bad things, but it doesn't sound original.
And don't tell me that doom did those first. They only invented the warping-in plot and the tunnel-like level structure.

Actually no, the original dooms had all of this. It is actually the other way around, hl1 has many of the elements the old DooMs had. This is why Doom3 seems similar to it in some ways.

-Hell is lame.

We havn't seen hell yet.

 

[Soundwave]

About the only enemy I think looks lame is the Revenant. Dunno why really, it almost looks the same as it used to. Maybe that's the problem, it looks too damn cartoony. Aside from that every other enemy we've seen so far looks awesome, what I can't wait for is to see the Cyberdemon himself.

 

[Sergio]

I have a gripe with it too, it doesn't look hellish enough. Looks too clean. I wouldn't go so far as to call it cartoony, but it doesn't fit with the others. They have made changes to other demons to make them more hellish, hope they do the same with the revenent too.

 

[Styloid]

Actually no, the original dooms had all of this. It is actually the other way around, hl1 has many of the elements the old DooMs had. This is why Doom3 seems similar to it in some ways.

-recruitable scientists?
-plausible traps/puzzles?
-no cut scenes and mission screens?
Doom?

 

[Soundwave]

I think it's those glowing blue eyes, too...ugh just the whole design for him. One bad looking monster out of 20 or however many enemies total isn't bad though. I've liked what I've seen so far on all the others.

 

[Sergio]

His eyes are green, unless I'm color blind. I think if they made the body armour more mechanical somehow, like the pinky is, and they got rid of the glowing eyes and just had very dark, black pits, plus bloodied up the body a bit with muscle tissue and what not still attached to the bones it would look perfect. Thats how I would have designed it anyway.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah I think at the least some ratting scraps of flesh still stuck to the bones in random places would make it a lot better. And getting rid of the almost happy looking glowing eyes.

 

[Sergio]

I think they tried to stay very true to the orig revenant that it ended up just not fitting with the rest of the game. If you pay attention to the movements, they are just like the old game. But everything else is changed so much that it ended up just out of place. I would be very surprised if they do not catch this and change it.

Have you seen the archvile? http://www.doom3portal.com/articles/images/2archvile.jpg

Looks nothing like the old one, but it fits perfectly with the new designs.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah I like the Archvile look. I dunno about you, but if Id does release anymore pics of new monsters I won't be looking at them. Actually I won't be looking at any new pics period. I've seen enough to whet my appetite, but now it's time to stay away from new media and let the rest suprise me. I want the first time I see a Cyberdemon to be a terrifying experience like seeing it in the Tower of Babel level was way back in Doom.

Also, as unbelievable as it sounds, on that videogame network G4, they were showing clips of Doom3 a few months back and I swear there was an extremely short, 2-3 second clip of a Mancubus. All you could see was it's big shape walking through some sort of fog towards the player. That's the only time I've ever seen it anywhere, and at first I thought I was imagining it but a Gamefaqs user at the Doom3 board had also seen it and asked about it. So the Mancubus is definately in.

 

[Sergio]

I have seen every screenshot so far and I will likely see any new ones until the game comes out. I am the type of guy that simply can't resist. I havn't seen that on g4(don't even know if I get that with my provider), I have heard the mancubus described in a mag though. I hear the macubus has no modesty and it's genetalia is viewable, aswell as six fat brests hanging down from it's body. I don't think id will release anything new until after the game is out. Maybe they will reveal one or two new monster, but no tmuch more than that. We have been looking at the same monsters for a year now, they are being very secretive. They want us to be shocked when we see these things.

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah, I remember Carmack saying there would be a media blackout concerning new images before the game's release. I'll hopefully resist any new pics that are revealed. Can't wait to see all the monsters they haven't shown yet, I read in Gamepro that the Cacodemons were now multi-eyed, so that should be interesting.

 

[A2597]

meh...the first, VERY first 300x2xx res shots made me want doom3...it looked SO AWESOME on the GeForce 3 back then...even now.

but somewhere along the line, the realness became plastic and wax figures...and then the things like baby heads and spiders with upside down heads and RL touting skeletons and...so much else...

that I couldn't care less if D3 came out now or 9900 years from now.

Stalker looks interesting, undertermined as of yet. Will wait for reviews on SP. (56K = No MP)

FarCry I'm having fun with so far.

and HL2...well, Insta Buy. Same as Far Cry and UT2k4.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Since I'm this thread's token pessimist, I might as well clarify my stance...

Which are ass, in your opinion?

I think the easiest way to answer that is to list the enemies that I do like.
The imps, the half-mechanical dog thing and the guy who greets you on the background of the official site are all top-notch, with very nice texture use.

The upside-down spider heads, and the flying heads both look low-poly despite their textures. (The legs on the spiders seem to be one flat colour too.)
Along with rocket-skeleton, they all are pretty ridiculous concepts, as has been gone over before by other folks.
All the enemies, including the generic zombies, have that much-balleyhooed plastic sheen.
The three guys that I mentioned liking, however, are cool enough that I'm willing to accept it for them.

Now, the flashlight...

This is a great idea to create tension in a game that is so dark. You are the only person I have seen that has a problem with this. in real life you wouldn't be able to anyway. A pistol and a flashlight maybe, but nothing else. In hl2 the flashlight doesn't even exist in the game world, you just hit the flashlight button and a lightsource is created. In Doom3 the flashlight is a physical object you carry in your inventory, and if you want to use it you must pull it out, hence put something else away.

plus, the flashlight also serves as a meele weapon. So it's not like your are totally defensless with it out. But I think this is a great way to create the extra tension in the game. Don't forget it is a horror title.

My opinions of the flashlight thing are best summed up by an article by the good folks at somethingawful.com. Click on the word "flashlight" in my last post to read it.

I wouldn't mind it if you could use a pistol at the same time, but it doesn't appear that you can. It is a great dramatic device, but it's not as grounded in reality as I had hoped.
And I don't really see how a flashlight could do much damage against monsters that apear to require a good few shotgun-blasts to kill.

Oh, and HL's flashlight was built into your suit's front, hence the no-hands.

What shader effects are you referring to?

Well, again, the infamous plasticy-ness is an issue, but even in places where it does work, like on the walls, I don't find it very convincing.
Although the walls look nice at first glance, it was still pretty obvious to me that they aren't any more than textures. Most of the bumps, crags and outcroppings are painted on, and I just find that to be inferior to using polys. I can't really describe it, but it just doesn't look real to me.

Like high-quality mannequin. It looks both realistic and unrealistic at the same time. Mostly a result, I think, of being too 'perfect'.
The textures could really use some dirtying-up.

As for Doom being more akin to half-life in features...

Actually no, the original dooms had all of this. It is actually the other way around, hl1 has many of the elements the old DooMs had. This is why Doom3 seems similar to it in some ways.

I don't remember any of the things I mentioned being in either Doom, except for the portal to another world brings aliens to spooky tunnel-maze part that I already conceded.

In fact, most of them are being touted as new features that the original was missing. Having an immersive scripts-driven no-cutscenes story, going to the invasion's source, interacting with scientist NPC's who you can leave behind or use to unlock further areas, etc. are all new to Doom, but not really to me.

Then again, I think that being more like Half-life is actually a great thing for the Doom series. It's just not unique.

We havn't seen hell yet.

Well, I was really harping on the entire concept of hell in general, but we have seen a small glimpse of it in some shots. Red, burning sky; rocky, barren landscape; huge skulls sticking out of the ground. Yawn, I say.

I do like how id is trying to make it more alien than religious (like with the unique inhuman monsters I noted above), but the burning skulls and faces motif kind of wrecks the effect for me.
If they're so alien, why all the human-ish body parts?

The idea of hell as another dimension works, but they seem to have tried to had their cake and eat it too. They've combined traditional, unimaginative hell (fire and brimstone with freaky skulls everywhere) with cool, sci-fi hell (Strange and unique carnivorous monsters from another dimension unlike our own), and only the sci-fi part is very interesting to me.

The idea that hell is actually a planet somewhere full of aliens that resemble demons and ghosts is cool. Giving some of them human features is less cool. It's like in star trek, where everyone in the galaxy looks human, even though they come from dramatically different ecosystems.

Whoo, long post.

 

[csmighty1]

You know, I just can't help but chuckle at the people who are giving the who "Doom 3 looks like plastic" speech. Honestly, this game looks just great and the official E3 trailor for the game look equally impressive. For one thing, you can't tell how good a games graphics are until you see it in motion. How can you judge a games graphics by a still screenshot? It's not posible. I may be sounding arrogant here but I think that the only poeple who are not looking forward to playing Doom are the ones that complain that the system specs for the game are to high and they won't be able to play it at a descent framrate. For one thing, I applaud Carmack for writing code that strikes fear into the hearts of "cutting edge" computers everywhere. I mean think about it, the radeon 9800 Pro came out when Return to Castle Wolfenstien was released. That seems like such a waste of power, but now Doom 3 (and HL2) and fully taking advantage of this card.
Trust me, when your crouched in a corner in a level in Doom 3 and you start to see a couple of those human spider heads running towards you, I don't think you'll be saying "those spiders look like pastic!" ...I think you'll be more concerned about getting a new pair of boxers.