Steam to being sending 'the game' to hard drives a week before it ships

[rob.derosa]

Originally posted by blade 24/7 365
I'm buying HL2 on amazon.co.uk and not on steam because even if it comes out early or if i can play it at 12:01 on 30/9 i dont trust the internet for downloading something i can buy in the stores and also that is 2GB, what if your computer crashes whilst downloading.

Also i know its off topic but i dont know whether my computer can play HL2, does anybody have any knolage of the specs.

P.S this is my first post on a forum :bounce:

You don't trust downloading it off the internet, but you trust buying it off the internet... okay.

If the download stops, it will resume at the smae place when Steam is restarted (presuming your cache has not been damaged).

I've preordered it, and I'm going to get it on Steam, just so I have both =)

 

[blade 24/7 365]

Amazon say delivery is betwen 1st and 2nd of oct, but, when i pre-orderd MOHAA spearhead i got it a day before the official relice!

GOD PLEASE MAKE THEAT HAPPEN WITH HL2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:sniper:

 

[Burtox]

Originally posted by mallet
"I went to Valve studios and forget to tell you the only thing of any relevance or interest, but here are some more pictures of fat people and concept art you saw months ago."

YOU'RE MY HERO!!!!

Well why dont you go to valve and see if you can do any better dude?\
:flame:

And while your at it put a photo of yourself on the thred and we can all call you names too, not the atitude I would have expected on this forum

 

[blade 24/7 365]

indeed!!?!

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by GJaaGular
yeah halfasleep thats why no one ever cracks a game...wake up

?? Where exactly did we disagree? I know all games get cracked eventually and that HL2 will as well..

But I do not think anyone will decrypt it in one week, and then it is too late to have any meaning. That is not to say that noone will crack it.

Cracking and decrypting is not the same thing.

HalfAsleep

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by kolor12
yes, they coded some nice tools for cracking securom, safedisc, laserloc and other shit..
but when developers of GTA3 implented new kind of securom protection 2.6, they failed to crack it first, it took them 4 hours to make proper crack of this game

dont think valve is able to make something terrible new highly protected..

So basically we agree. :cheers:

 

[blade 24/7 365]

i agee with the majoraty on this, if they do a pre-download then they will leave out the important files like the EXE file untill 9/30 or whenever, makeing it meaningless to try to crack.

 

[Ghost Freeman]

I sent this link to Fragmaster.

He hasn't updated.

LOL.

 

[Immacolata]

Originally posted by Sushi
An early release on steam would seem logical, since it would immensly reduce the stress on the steam servers on the 30th. But I can also picture some guy sitting in a basement for days in a hex editor trying to crack the encryptions

btw, great job on getting into valve and getting us the pics and info spitcodfry!

Ah yes, thats the brilliant part. A guy with a hex editor spending days in his basement. If they use a good strong encryption I don't think any basement geek will be able to find the solution within the week it takes from distribution to official unlocking. Besides, if you need a cd-key verification on Steam each time you play, that would require an additional crack of the game. I think their idea is fine. Provided they dont use a lame low bit encryption though

And kolor12, one thing is cracking securom etc. Another thing is to find a decryption key in that short time. Unless you got some good material to work on, I think it could take a long while to figure out.

 

[spitcodfry]

Originally posted by Immacolata
Provided they dont use a lame low bit encryption though

From the way the Steam guys were talking about the encryption it certainly didn't seem 'low bit' in nature. I'm sure Valve has done their homework on this front.

 

[blade 24/7 365]

whats the highest or best encryption you can get?

 

[FriScho]

8192 bit military-grade Polymorphic Encryption Method (8192 bit Crypto-Compiler)

 

[blade 24/7 365]

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!?!?!?!?

 

[Zyphria]

Quantum encryptions is great....shame it limited at 60bits per second...

But in truth, they don't need that much encryption, they just send the files to your computer like it was rar files....the last part they send "unlocks" it.

 

[FriScho]

PGP RSA has up to 16384 bit encryption.

 

[poseyjmac]

i like the idea of them just not sending the exe. i mean theres no amount of cracking that can create an exe right?

 

[spitcodfry]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
i like the idea of them just not sending the exe. i mean theres no amount of cracking that can create an exe right?

Not sure about that m8...mayhap someone from the game industry could create a temporary one that worked...dunno

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by Immacolata
And kolor12, one thing is cracking securom etc. Another thing is to find a decryption key in that short time. Unless you got some good material to work on, I think it could take a long while to figure out.

My point exactly, there is not even a point to look at the files with a hex editor while they are encrypted, it will just look like garbage.

That is also why I threw in the example of how many keys there are in a 128 bit encryption (which is like the minimum these days).

roughly 3,7 with 38 zeros remember?

so theoretically if you try to guess the key, you will statistically succeed about halfway down the line...do you know how many times you have to guess?? about 1.7014118346046923173168730371588e+38 times.

Now that is a heck of amount of times to guess a key. And remember we only have a week until Steam will decrypt it anyway, and then anyone can look at it and try to crack it if they want. So basically I do not think any hacker/cracker will manage to decrypt it, but there will probably be some smartass cracking the HL2 piracy protection after steam has decrypted the data.

HalfAsleep

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by spitcodfry
Not sure about that m8...mayhap someone from the game industry could create a temporary one that worked...dunno

Lol sorry spit, but this one cracked me up a bit. Remember, the .exe and the .dlls are actually the files that come as a result of all those millions of lines of code. The C++ or java code or whatever code is human-readable and makes sense to us, but does not mean diddlysquat to a computer.

The compiler takes the source code (which the human readable code is called) and translates it into something the computer can understand as instructions, basicall assembly and nothing but 1s and 0s.

For instance a programmer may want to compare two values.

He will write that as something like:

if ( a > b )
{
y = 3;
}
else
{
x = 3;
}

This means nothing to a computer. However when compiled and turned into a .exe, it all makes sense to the computer (but not most humans).
The syntax of the above is broken down and eventually turned into a row of sequential instructions that a cpu can execute.
so in the end it will be something looking like assembly, which is the actual instructions the cpu reads. These instructions are very basic, but quick and powerful. Kinda like atoms in the real world.. they are the building blocks.
For instance there is a compare command usually written cmp.
there is a jump instruction usually written jmp (they are mostly all 3 letters)
All these commands take a number of numerical operands which are either actual numbers, or addresses to other parts of the computer memory.
So for instance the compare command may compare two values.
If these values are stored in memory we can use their address.
cmp 0x0ffe342 0x0ffe654
now the two addresses might point to some numerical values like 1 and 2.
The result is stored in the cpus register, so then the next command can be something like, jump to this address if the numbers were equal, usually written jeq.
The next instruction might be jump to this address if the number was less, usually written jle.
The catch is, if the jeq was executed, the jle never will, the cpu didn't get to that one, since the jeq made the cpu jump to somewhere else in memory.
And at last, all the assembly instructions have their own numerical representation. The cmp command could be 0x000032 for instance.

Now all the numbers above were in hex, but of course the cpu only works in binary, on and off, 0s and 1s.
So hex 32 is in binary 0011 and 0010.

But I digress. The point I was supposed to make is that you cannot simply replace an .exe file. You would have to code something similar, or something that could use all the hl2 material and use it in a sensible way. Someone could do it if they get all the hl2 material and another couple of years of coding I guess. So basically there is only the hl2.exe from valve that will work, and that is the file the hackers/crackers need so they can modify it. There is NO way they can make their own replacement. They need the original with all those 5 years of making behind it and then modify some comparatively tiny sections to crack it.

Kinda makes you think about it with a bit more respect. Someone takes 5 years to make an .exe file that can run, or in an essence IS HL2, and then someone uses a couple of days or a week to rewire the piracy checks just so they can play it for free.

Sorry for the extremely loooong post :bounce:

HalfAsleep

 

[Forum Lamer]

Im still trying to decide whether to get mine on steam of get it from retail..

Cause what if you get it from steam.. doesn't it have to connect everytime you play and what if steam is down and you can't play the game because of that.. or is it just a one time download that you can pay for and then not worry about steam after that??

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by Forum Lamer
Im still trying to decide whether to get mine on steam of get it from retail..

Cause what if you get it from steam.. doesn't it have to connect everytime you play and what if steam is down and you can't play the game because of that.. or is it just a one time download that you can pay for and then not worry about steam after that??

i dont think so cause what about this scenario. a lan party is held where no internet connection is available. group A bought their game from stores. group b bought their game on steam. is group B screwed unless they somehow get an internet connection to validate them? both paid money. both are legit. i dont think valve would allow this situation.

 

[Berserk]

oh, and for those who dont know, a 128 bit key can have
3,4028236692093846346337460743177e+38 different values.

that is roughly a 3 with 38 zeros.

SHIT, I take that back... (I'm just starting to learn C and jeebus...)

Thank you for the lesson HalfAsleep, very humbling and insightful. (Must...learn C...)

 

[XtAkm4p]

Originally posted by Mr Neutron
What ELSE did you forget?!

'Oh, BTW. The game will only be released in Hungarian and Latin.'

oh god no... id hate to make my ex girlfriend translate it

 

[XtAkm4p]

Originally posted by The Terminator
I am still going retail. Just because i have never bought anything online before, and i would have to use my parents credit card, which i dont think theyd like (Im only 17). So retail it is.

i put 5 bucks down at eb. the second i see the hl2 preloading option realized i will get those 5 bucks back.

gotta love being a 15 year old with a credit card

wooteh

 

[spitcodfry]

Originally posted by XtAkm4p
gotta love being a 15 year old with a credit card

Lucky bastard

 

[OCybrManO]

"Lucky bastard"

How is having a credit card being lucky?
I never use my credit card.
It's not a magical cash-making wand... you still have to pay for it... with interest.

If you want to buy something online just give the money to your parents and get them to put it on their card.

 

[XtAkm4p]

american expresses dont have interest.... pay it all on the 15th...

 

[Baggins]

Or just do like me and get a credit card that bills your bank acount directly so you don't have to worry about the bills...

 

[Mopo]

You mean a debt card?

 

[OCybrManO]

debit

 

[[[LuCkY]]]

Originally posted by Baggins
Or just do like me and get a credit card that bills your bank acount directly so you don't have to worry about the bills...

I should get one of those...

 

[Mopo]

Yea yea yea debit.

 

[GinSlinger]

Argle Bargle.

 

[OCybrManO]

They are great... but if you go over you can get hit with a fee... as if you bounced a check.

I like not having to risk carrying a lot of cash around when I'm going to make a big purchase... not having to go inside at the gas (petrol for you brits) station is always a plus... and you don't have to bother with loose change.

I use it all the time... and I would recommend it... but you have to keep track of how much money you spend.

 

[Immacolata]

I think 128 bit encryption is what they will go for. They can do that without getting into trouble for exporting dangerous encryption technology that could be used by Evil Communist Countries and Soulless Tom Clancy Invented Cyber Terrorists.

 

[OCybrManO]

Many of the encryption methods that have been deemed legal for use in exports have been corrupted by the government to allow them to access the encrypted information through some sort of backdoor... though, this wouldn't cause a problem with HL2 unless the government leaks HL2.

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by OCybrManO
Many of the encryption methods that have been deemed legal for use in exports have been corrupted by the government to allow them to access the encrypted information through some sort of backdoor... though, this wouldn't cause a problem with HL2 unless the government leaks HL2.

There is a prime example of this from Switzerland. The supposedly neutral country. A while back, can't remember the specifics, let's say in the 70s a swiss company made a machine that could encrypt and decrypt messages, and this machine had so good encryption that it was heralded as the safest, mos secure way of communicating when you did not want a third party to get to the information. However.........and this one is classic.....

The NSA, that is right, the National Security Agency from the good ol' US of A "persuaded" them (can't remember if it was through money or some other means) to leave in a backdoor that only they knew about.

The reason is that this machine was so successful that the NSA could not do it on their own, and this was such a good machine that many countries and embassies had started using it already. Iran was one country that used it for example. So of course when the several countries that owned this machine started smelling a rat, cause the USA was always miraculously at the right place at the right time, eventually the whole thing was exposed. It is one of the ugliest and most memorable episodes of an encryption backdoor, and just goes to show that the NSA is not shy of any means to get the job done. And of course Switzerland and not the least that particular company got a huge dent in their "neutral" image.

A search on the net should bring some info up on this story...I will see if I can find a link later.

HalfAsleep

 

[spitcodfry]

Originally posted by HalfAsleep
There is a prime example of this from Switzerland. The supposedly neutral country. A while back, can't remember the specifics, let's say in the 70s a swiss company made a machine that could encrypt and decrypt messages, and this machine had so good encryption that it was heralded as the safest, mos secure way of communicating when you did not want a third party to get to the information. However.........and this one is classic.....

The NSA, that is right, the National Security Agency from the good ol' US of A "persuaded" them (can't remember if it was through money or some other means) to leave in a backdoor that only they knew about.

The reason is that this machine was so successful that the NSA could not do it on their own, and this was such a good machine that many countries and embassies had started using it already. Iran was one country that used it for example. So of course when the several countries that owned this machine started smelling a rat, cause the USA was always miraculously at the right place at the right time, eventually the whole thing was exposed. It is one of the ugliest and most memorable episodes of an encryption backdoor, and just goes to show that the NSA is not shy of any means to get the job done. And of course Switzerland and not the least that particular company got a huge dent in their "neutral" image.

A search on the net should bring some info up on this story...I will see if I can find a link later.

HalfAsleep

Wow...interesting info, thanks. This isn't computer related, but last year during my senior year of high school I learned how the Nazis during World War II developed a scrambling machine used to encrypt messages sent via morse code. It was dubbed by the Allied powers as the 'enigma machine.' An entire facility was set up in the English countryside to try to crack the 'enigma.' I think it took them over two years to break it...there's German engineering for you. Also, right when they were at a point of breaking it, the Germans added another 'ring' to the machine, which then created an even huger list of possibilities for encryption.

Cause knowledge is power!

 

[HalfAsleep]

Originally posted by spitcodfry
Wow...interesting info, thanks. This isn't computer related, but last year during my senior year of high school I learned how the Nazis during World War II developed a scrambling machine used to encrypt messages sent via morse code. It was dubbed by the Allied powers as the 'enigma machine.' An entire facility was set up in the English countryside to try to crack the 'enigma.' I think it took them over two years to break it...there's German engineering for you. Also, right when they were at a point of breaking it, the Germans added another 'ring' to the machine, which then created an even huger list of possibilities for encryption.

Cause knowledge is power!

Yes, actually the facility you are talking about was one of the first "computers" or large scale turing machines. This huge facility was a gigantic machine that did the brute force approach of guessing all the different ring combinations on an intercepted encrypted message. Without this machine to do it they would never have had the time to try all the combinations, the war would be over by then. There is loads more info on this though, and what I just said just scratches the surface of this very interesting subject!!

 

[Interl@ce]

about the steam verification stuff.... you can play hl2 singleplayer and multiplayer (on LAN) without needing steam at all..... it's only for the patching and online multiplay part you need steam for. ( i emailed gabe about it)