Suck my balls you stupid creationists!

It has to be taught to you because if it was immediately obvious and verifiable, you wouldn't need to be taught it, you would see it for yourself. The "proof" for something that isn't immediately verifiable by yourself is also 2nd hand. You can explain electromagnetism and then point to a magnet and say its proof. But if someone explained that invisible gnomes pull together magnets and then pointed to a magnet, they would have the same proof.
You wouldn't say "this magnet is why elctromagnetism is proof". You would say, "We created this magnet based off of the science and math behind elctromagnetism. If you don't believe the science and math behind elctromagnetism is correct you can correct it by creating a magnet based off of the "Invisible Gnome Theory". Science is open to ideas, and if you could run tests, observations, and exerperiemnts that prove that the Invisible Gnome Theory is correct, and that the current science behind Ectromagnetism just so happens to not be the full picture, then the Invisible Gnome Theory would be getting taught under the Science of Electormagnetism.

Science strives because every now and then someone will look at a piece of science and think, "This does not make sense". That person will then construct an experiment to come up with a better set of ideas to better explain what didn't make sense.
 
why must there be anything? just because science hasn't figured it out as of yet doesnt legitimize any catholicism claims. Few hundred years ago people saw the sun and figured it has to revolve around the earth.
 
Blind faith is different from faith from observation. Unless religion has given me airplanes and vaccinations which make me not die in childhood, faith in it is remarkably pointless.



Well, you're European. Europe is a land of commies. :P

This is really one of those things which people should be more aware of, actually. I live in an Islamic country, and after hearing people say that the earth floats on rock, and there is an energy field that prevents us from reaching the moon, I would very much prefer that a bastion of scientific trust exists somewhere.

Two things:

In europe communism create you

Also, energy field preventing us from going to the moon? What the hell....I always thought Islam was crazy but goodness gracious me....
At least if there was an energy field around Earth then alien invaders wouldn't bother us :P
 
but we are still taking what we learn as children as the absolute truth

No we are ****ing not. Drop that idea. I was raised as a protestant christian. I was told the bible was the only truth, and all other religions were offsprings.

Do I look like a christian? Most athiests were religious at one point. If people take what they are taught as childeren as truth when they are adults how come some of us are athiests? How come we are not writing out lists to father christmas?
 
No we are ****ing not. Drop that idea. I was raised as a protestant christian. I was told the bible was the only truth, and all other religions were offsprings.

Do I look like a christian? Most athiests were religious at one point. If people take what they are taught as childeren as truth when they are adults how come some of us are athiests? How come we are not writing out lists to father christmas?

yup i agree with Piggy...been raised as a moderate Catholic, but i started to loose interest by 10, became "agnostic" by 14, and atheist a year ago.

thank you internet for opening my eyes.
 
Indeed. The simple answer to the question for most people of 'why are you a christian?' is simply because its what your parents believed and its what they taught you. Did you know that most people who have have an irrational fear pick it up for the same reason? If you happen to be scared of spiders its probable that one of your parents had the same fear and you picked it up via observation as a child.
 
*sigh* All this talk about God(s) and no god, and evolution, is mentally and emotionally draining to me. It isn't to anyone else?:| I wish I could find some immediate reference to back up my claims to CptStern, but I don't have time right now. BTW:Charles Darwin was a quack. His theories are totally bogus and he should be erased from the pages of history. A big waste of time to the scientific community, (not the creationists.) Piece Out.
And here we go! Proudly marching into the 16th century! All aboard the train to the dark ages! Choo Choo!
 
Blind faith and an incredible capacity for self delusion.

Not all faith is blind and some have an incredible capacity for imagination.

A delusioned man is someone who does not consider any possibility, relative.
 
Why can't 7 days in Genesis be more than just 7 human days.

Genesis was a vision, not everything has to be taken into belief. It could be a parable or just a story, but who says 7days is 7days. 7days to God can mean 7million years for man which allows evolution to take place. God want man to be made thus just uses a wonder sucha s evolution to make it happen.

Huzzah
 
It has to be seven days cos it clearly sets it out that it is seven days. :/

Besides, take the Bible at anything besides face value and straight to hell you go.
 
Why can't 7 days in Genesis be more than just 7 human days.

Genesis was a vision, not everything has to be taken into belief. It could be a parable or just a story, but who says 7days is 7days. 7days to God can mean 7million years for man which allows evolution to take place. God want man to be made thus just uses a wonder sucha s evolution to make it happen.

Huzzah

If God's version of a day is so different than man's, then don't you consider it an absolute failure on his part for not making this clear in the Bible? After all, we're talking about the book that is supposed to be the foundation of the Christian religion, for men.

It's like if I told you to make me a hat, but my definition of a hat is actually pants. This argument doesn't hold up under any modicum of scrutiny. And the "God made evolution" one is almost as bad. Isn't it convenient how the more we come to understand the workings of the world, the more God is pushed into the backseat, and yet we still pretend he's valid.

"I want to make life. But instead of designing it as so, even though it would require literally no effort in light of my limitless powers, I'll make a process that generates organisms over millions of years! Sure, most species will go extinct over the course of time. But I'll keep plugging at it until homo sapiens arrive. Then I'll give them a book!"

This is ridiculous.
 
I haven't bothered reading all the pages of this thread & believe this belongs in the politics section . . . but . . .

Where creationists fail is they assume that any form of evolution automatically negates God, which it doesn't. The Bible never says anything about creatures evolving or changing . . . or NOT changing. If they were smart, they'd use it as evidence god exists "See, God is so smart that me made his creatures so they could evolve and adapt to new conditions"

Consider how animals change after generations living in a cave, or variations in human skin color and other attributes relative to their environment. I believe this is more the way creatures adapt by nature, rather than survival of the fittest (which is part of it).
 
Why can't 7 days in Genesis be more than just 7 human days.

Genesis was a vision, not everything has to be taken into belief. It could be a parable or just a story, but who says 7days is 7days. 7days to God can mean 7million years for man which allows evolution to take place. God want man to be made thus just uses a wonder sucha s evolution to make it happen.

Huzzah

The Bible was written in terms humans of the time could understand; there are more disagreement on the way creation works inside Christianity (there are at least 15 distinct and popular "theories") than there are disagreements between evolutionists and creationists in general.
 
If God's version of a day is so different than man's, then don't you consider it an absolute failure on his part for not making this clear in the Bible? After all, we're talking about the book that is supposed to be the foundation of the Christian religion, for men.

It's like if I told you to make me a hat, but my definition of a hat is actually pants. This argument doesn't hold up under any modicum of scrutiny. And the "God made evolution" one is almost as bad. Isn't it convenient how the more we come to understand the workings of the world, the more God is pushed into the backseat, and yet we still pretend he's valid.

"I want to make life. But instead of designing it as so, even though it would require literally no effort in light of my limitless powers, I'll make a process that generates organisms over millions of years! Sure, most species will go extinct over the course of time. But I'll keep plugging at it until homo sapiens arrive. Then I'll give them a book!"

This is ridiculous.

Quoted for truth. At least creationists are consistently retarded.
 
I was brought up to believe that the Bible was written by man about God, to explain the inconsistent parts. I don't think the non-creationist churches believe the bible to be the literal word of God.

Still if Genesis isn't strictly true, it somewhat undermines the original sin thing.
 
"I want to make life. But instead of designing it as so, even though it would require literally no effort in light of my limitless powers, I'll make a process that generates organisms over millions of years! Sure, most species will go extinct over the course of time. But I'll keep plugging at it until homo sapiens arrive. Then I'll give them a book!"
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
I was brought up to believe that the Bible was written by man about God, to explain the inconsistent parts. I don't think the non-creationist churches believe the bible to be the literal word of God.

Still if Genesis isn't strictly true, it somewhat undermines the original sin thing.

God supposedly pumped the authors full of the holy spirit and inspired their writings. It's supposed to be the word of God as dictated to men. I guess you could say that God was writing through these people, possessing them all Bill & Ted style.

That actually makes it more stupid, the more I think about it.
 
If God's version of a day is so different than man's, then don't you consider it an absolute failure on his part for not making this clear in the Bible? After all, we're talking about the book that is supposed to be the foundation of the Christian religion, for men.

It's like if I told you to make me a hat, but my definition of a hat is actually pants. This argument doesn't hold up under any modicum of scrutiny. And the "God made evolution" one is almost as bad. Isn't it convenient how the more we come to understand the workings of the world, the more God is pushed into the backseat, and yet we still pretend he's valid.

"I want to make life. But instead of designing it as so, even though it would require literally no effort in light of my limitless powers, I'll make a process that generates organisms over millions of years! Sure, most species will go extinct over the course of time. But I'll keep plugging at it until homo sapiens arrive. Then I'll give them a book!"

This is ridiculous.


You really have to blame moses right thar. He was the one who had a vision on Genesis. Genesis wasnt a recording btw it was an interpretation. Could be a story. And on evolution, im not bashing it. i belives it huzzah. And its great so why didnt God just do that. Absinthine, chill, we rock.
 
Wait, you're religious? I INSTANTLY DISOWN YOU AND ALL YOUR KIN!

Jokes, jokes. :/
 
:(

And i still repect you guys so much.

:( Oh well, LETS PLAY SUM TF2 HUZZAH
 
God supposedly pumped the authors full of the holy spirit and inspired their writings. It's supposed to be the word of God as dictated to men. I guess you could say that God was writing through these people, possessing them all Bill & Ted style.

That actually makes it more stupid, the more I think about it.

That's what the AoG and a few other churches preach, but their support in the bible is a bit out of context and vague. I always aid it's the best resource Christians have, but to presume infallibility risks causing many to lose faith when presented with failed human doctrine.

(not that most of you have any clue what I just said, lol)
 
If God's version of a day is so different than man's, then don't you consider it an absolute failure on his part for not making this clear in the Bible?

Not completely -- perhaps in seperate dimensions, time is distorted. I hope that doesn't frusterate what you're trying to do.
 
Or that moses was jumped through 7million years in seven days though his vision?

Yeah, he didnt need to see all 7million years. All he needed was the 7days mmrite?
 
You're not making any sense. STOP IT MY BRAINS!
 
Not completely -- perhaps in seperate dimensions, time is distorted. I hope that doesn't frusterate what you're trying to do.

This is just one more assumption heaped on another, and it doesn't resole anything.

As an all-powerful being he should be able to convey himself to his children in a way that is understandable to us. Surely he could explain this?
 
This is just one more assumption heaped on another, and it doesn't resole anything.

As an all-powerful being he should be able to convey himself to his children in a way that is understandable to us. Surely he could explain this?

God's a dick.

Seriously, it explains everything.
 
You really have to blame moses right thar. He was the one who had a vision on Genesis. Genesis wasnt a recording btw it was an interpretation. Could be a story. And on evolution, im not bashing it. i belives it huzzah. And its great so why didnt God just do that. Absinthine, chill, we rock.
Why not just take the entire bible as a fricken story? Where it was written by a bunch of drunken men?

Also if god could do everything and anything, why take 7 million years? Or 7 days? Couldn't he do it instantly?
 
"I want to make life. But instead of designing it as so, even though it would require literally no effort in light of my limitless powers, I'll make a process that generates organisms over millions of years! Sure, most species will go extinct over the course of time. But I'll keep plugging at it until homo sapiens arrive. Then I'll give them a book!"

This is ridiculous.

Thats not what happened according to them.

As an all-powerful being he should be able to convey himself to his children in a way that is understandable to us. Surely he could explain this?

Maybe "he" is not a god. Not in the sense a proclaimed, "child of abraham" would expect or believe of one.

Yes, but that makes it even more retarded.

I disagree. Certain laws on Earth change or are completely inert when applied to Quantum Law. Surely the laws of space are completely dissolved when we imagine the possibility of going past or beyond what we know in our dimensions.

They'res certainly more to our existence then meets the eye.

God supposedly pumped the authors full of the holy spirit and inspired their writings. It's supposed to be the word of God as dictated to men. I guess you could say that God was writing through these people, possessing them all Bill & Ted style.

Ask yourself this -- wouldn't Satan also have that capacity? It is a war between him and God; its not unlike war for they're to be forms of sabotage.
 
Thats not what happened according to them.

According to who? Christians or Jews who believe that evolution was made by God? If so, then it happened exactly as I illustrated it. There's no other way it could have happened. He would had to have started it millions of years ago (because we know the Earth is millions of years old), oversee countless numbers of species get birthed into existence and die out from extinction (because we know this from archaeological findings and in light of natural selection), and then he had to wait until his "children" grew intelligent enough to even comprehend something like a deity so that he could instruct them in their faith.

Maybe "he" is not a god. Not in the sense a proclaimed, "child of abraham" would expect or believe of one.

Maybe he's a goldfish. It doesn't matter what he or it is (if it even exists), because I am attacking the belief in the Abrahamic god. That's all that matters.

I disagree. Certain laws on Earth change or are completely inert when applied to Quantum Law. Surely the laws of space are completely dissolved when we imagine the possibility of going past or beyond what we know in our dimensions.

They'res certainly more to our existence then meets the eye.

But my argument still stands. A deity described as being all-powerful would have been more than able to make this clear for us. If God's version of a day is so different from ours - to the point where we shouldn't even bother calling it one - then why did he not make this clear to us in Genesis? If he wanted to relate to us in terms we could understand, why couldn't he just say it took him millions of years, or two seconds, or some other hypothetical answer that we would be able to understand?

Couldn't he have put in an addendum saying "Heads up, guys. When I said I made the Earth in seven days, that's like forty xillion years to you guys."? If he couldn't clarify this, then he'd be intentionally misleading.

While I certainly agree that there are many things in this universe that we are unable to perceive (at least currently), there is no way of even remotely verifying claims about God or the afterlife. You are just making things up.

Ask yourself this -- wouldn't Satan also have that capacity? It is a war between him and God; its not unlike war for they're to be forms of sabotage.

What war? The god of Abraham is all-powerful. He could completely dispose of Satan if he wanted to. It's clear that despite all his benevolence, he still wants to keep Satan and Hell around. After all, he does need a place to throw the heathens.

But really, does this matter? I'm not arguing about how Heaven and Hell work in reality, because I don't think they exist. I am arguing against an idea.

Maybe God was distracted from Earth when Cthulhu tackled him and started a mud brawl, so Satan took this time to sabotage his Bible teachings. Who cares, because this is arguing about fantasy.
 
Thats not what happened according to them.



Maybe "he" is not a god. Not in the sense a proclaimed, "child of abraham" would expect or believe of one.



I disagree. Certain laws on Earth change or are completely inert when applied to Quantum Law. Surely the laws of space are completely dissolved when we imagine the possibility of going past or beyond what we know in our dimensions.

They'res certainly more to our existence then meets the eye.



Ask yourself this -- wouldn't Satan also have that capacity? It is a war between him and God; its not unlike war for they're to be forms of sabotage.

Absolutely non of what you say can be used in a decent argument about the existence of god. Your arguments so far are just a collection of "what if's".
 
Ask yourself this -- wouldn't Satan also have that capacity? It is a war between him and God; its not unlike war for they're to be forms of sabotage.
Yea and doesnt it also say in the bible that God will win? I dont see how this argument is any different than when creationist say, 'hey these lifeforms didnt evolove over millions of years! God hid those bones there to challenge our faith!' Its just excuse rationalizations. Im really open to any idea, Im not trying to cut you down but its like already believing in something and then working your way backwards omiting what doesnt fit..
 
Thats not what happened according to them.

Who the hell is "them?"

Maybe "he" is not a god. Not in the sense a proclaimed, "child of abraham" would expect or believe of one.

Your avoiding the question. If god is incomprehensible, then he has to convey himself in a way that is comprehensible. If he doesn't, as you are suggesting, then he is misleading - nay, outright lying, to us, "his chosen biengs".



I disagree. Certain laws on Earth change or are completely inert when applied to Quantum Law. Surely the laws of space are completely dissolved when we imagine the possibility of going past or beyond what we know in our dimensions.

Yes, but you are using things that are hypothetical (other dimensions have not - I repeat have not been proven) to justify something which could, with no effort at all, simply tell us in terms we could understand.


They'res certainly more to our existence then meets the eye.

Yeah, if you accept pseudoscience and blind faith.

Ask yourself this -- wouldn't Satan also have that capacity? It is a war between him and God; its not unlike war for they're to be forms of sabotage.

God is supposed to be all powerful. Satan only exists by his will (in fact his will created satan, as if he is all-knowing he knew satan would fall from grace and become the devil).
 
The god of Abraham is all-powerful. He could completely dispose of Satan if he wanted to.

Maybe because Satan is the God of Abraham. It's not far fetched to believe that in some religions, Satans merely the meta-supernatural description for God's own wrath, thereby ruling them one in the same.

According to who? Christians or Jews who believe that evolution was made by God? If so, then it happened exactly as I illustrated it. There's no other way it could have happened.

They're are certainly other denominations that don't follow the, "last 6,000 years" and onward thought. Although I might be a skeptic of the theorey for evolution, its still not unlike me to see where it is indeed possible if also in need of better examples. For instance, no one has physically recorded genetic changes in human beings to date or observed recent changes in they're performance as a species.

It doesn't matter what he or it is (if it even exists), because I am attacking the belief in the Abrahamic god. That's all that matters.

Whats so intimidating about him?

A deity described as being all-powerful would have been more than able to make this clear for us.

Answers aren't always meant to be clear -- a species doesn't have the compunction to think if it already knows.

Couldn't he have put in an addendum saying "Heads up, guys. When I said I made the Earth in seven days, that's like forty xillion years to you guys."? If he couldn't clarify this, then he'd be intentionally misleading.

Which is where my theory comes into play. God didn't inspire these men to write the bible, just like Gabriel didn't inspire scholars to record the discussions between him and Mohammed for the literature in the Quran. It's possible Satan has mislead most denominational followers at exactly they're source.

And all three of them have set themselves up for failure.

Three of the worlds most powerful geo-political religions squaring off in a war of distraction, all because Satan farted inside all they're biblical play books.

Yeah, if you accept pseudoscience and blind faith.

It takes a blind man not to see where other things are possible. Science was inspired by exploration, imagination, question and possibility against the boundaries of social laws and religious control. Ruling something out due to an irrational phobia or bigoted disposition is not an exercise of rationality, but unconditional fear and misunderstanding.

Your avoiding the question. If god is incomprehensible, then he has to convey himself in a way that is comprehensible. If he doesn't, as you are suggesting, then he is misleading - nay, outright lying, to us, "his chosen biengs".

I think we're lying about him. I think we've always lied about him. As a matter of fact, I don't believe many people know him that well, or even know him to begin with. It's a puzzle really.

And here we go! Proudly marching into the 16th century! All aboard the train to the dark ages! Choo Choo!

It must feel pretty good to trample on the emotions of others and whats worse is I don't think you've accomplished anything in process. Choo Choo!
 
...This is arguing about fantasy.

The idea that Satan is masquerading behind all these religions is not a popular one, so there's no point in addressing it. After all, we are talking about things that are unverifiable by their very nature. You could also say Zeus is playing behind the scenes, but in the end you're just trailing off into pointless, irrelevant discourse.

This is an argument against a popular idea: that evolution was designed by God. My intent is to show how empty and absurd it is. Propping up more hypothetical factors like "What if God isn't really God but is actually the devil" or "What if God is, like, the Matrix"... seems to be missing the point. And while science was and is inspired by exploratory and imaginative thinking, it still draws the line at things that are wrong and flawed. These theories that try so desperately to match up their religious beliefs with hard science are dismissed not out of irrationality or prejudice. They are dismissed because they don't meet the minimum standards to be considered possible, let alone plausible.

Implying we are somehow narrow-minded for not entertaining such drivel seems ill-thought.
 
The idea that Satan is masquerading behind all these religions is not a popular one, so there's no point in addressing it. After all, we are talking about things that are unverifiable by their very nature.

At some point, so was the theory that the Earth was round, not flat. Should'nt we owe ourselves a little bit more patience when it comes down to these things?

I sure would like to think so.

My intent is to show how empty and absurd it is.

Your veinly disagreeing with it, sure, but I still don't see how something so "imaginary" can become such a terrifying monster in your closet.

Implying we are somehow narrow-minded for not entertaining such drivel seems ill-thought.

Uh, I'd like to reissue that statement:

Implying that WE are somehow narrow-minded for not rejecting evolution or a "God" as possible factors for our existence on this planet, is also ill-thought.

These theories that try so desperately to match up their religious beliefs with hard science are dismissed not out of irrationality or prejudice.

It is certainly prejudice and there is some bitter irrationality that goes along with it; as for the religiously motivated being desperate, try again. We believe it whether your intervention is considered or not.
 
Maybe because Satan is the God of Abraham. It's not far fetched to believe that in some religions, Satans merely the meta-supernatural description for God's own wrath, thereby ruling them one in the same.

Whether Satan and God are one and the same doesnt matter one iota. You still have to prove they exist in the first place... which you cant.

They're are certainly other denominations that don't follow the, "last 6,000 years" and onward thought. Although I might be a skeptic of the theorey for evolution, its still not unlike me to see where it is indeed possible if also in need of better examples. For instance, no one has physically recorded genetic changes in human beings to date or observed recent changes in they're performance as a species.

Evolution is fact. The Theory of evolution is merely a description of how evolution can take place and just so happens to be the most evidentially supported theory in existence. If i were to take your position on theory i could claim im a skeptic of the theory of gravity and that im living in hope of maybe one day seeing something fall upwards...

Whats so intimidating about him?
Nothing. The god of the bible scares me about as much as dragons, unicorns, sea monsters and giants do. (All of the previous mythical creatures appear in the old testament if you didnt know already)

Answers aren't always meant to be clear -- a species doesn't have the compunction to think if it already knows.
You got that right. Your answer isnt clear at all... In fact its a rather 'murky asnwer' to use a phrase borrowed from daniel dennet.

Which is where my theory comes into play. God didn't inspire these men to write the bible, just like Gabriel didn't inspire scholars to record the discussions between him and Mohammed for the literature in the Quran. It's possible Satan has mislead most denominational followers at exactly they're source.

And all three of them have set themselves up for failure.

Three of the worlds most powerful geo-political religions squaring off in a war of distraction, all because Satan farted inside all they're biblical play books.
Firstly you're clueless as to what the word theory means. A theory must be supported by evidence or it isnt a theory. Hence I refer to Bertrand Russels teapot. The burden of proof rests on you and any bizarre claim you make.


It takes a blind man not to see where other things are possible. Science was inspired by exploration, imagination, question and possibility against the boundaries of social laws and religious control. Ruling something out due to an irrational phobia or bigoted disposition is not an exercise of rationality, but unconditional fear and misunderstanding.
Science isnt a closed minded or bigoted and is in fact open to any suggestion so long as any claim can be backed up by evidence. If we could prove god existed then wouldn't that be the greatest scientific discovery ever made? However proof always requires evidence and in the case of a creator or god there simply is none... so far!

When science asks the question 'how did the first single celled organism first come into bieng?' and religion answers 'god did it!' then religion has simply failed to explain anything. The asnwer of 'god did it!' simply generates more questions along the lines of 'How did god do it?', 'Where did god come from?' and 'Who made god?'. Try to answer those questions and yet again you fail to provide an answer but instead provide yet more questions. Here we come back to the fact that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and as such the burden of proof rests upon the person claiming the existence of a creator. A true scientist is open to any suggestion so long as you can back up a claim with evidence and would welcome you with open arms should you be able to provide it.

I think we're lying about him. I think we've always lied about him. As a matter of fact, I don't believe many people know him that well, or even know him to begin with. It's a puzzle really.
Absinthe's statement still stands. Why cant a creator or god simply make himself clear? maybe by popping up and actually saying hello? If that were to happen i would have my proof and i would become a believer in a second. :)
 
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