Swedish defense is shutting down.

[Varg|Hund]

/me gives it the love it deserves.

 

[Majestic XII]

The only thing I know about SÄPO is that they stalked the dude who owns www.flashback.se back in the days when it was a underground site

 

[Sprafa]

www.sapo.pt

 

[moppe]

The only thing I know about SÄPO is that they stalked the dude who owns www.flashback.se back in the days when it was a underground site

Oh, poor Flashback.

 

[Majestic XII]

Just rememberd the Visby Corvette... anyone know whats going to happen with them?

(info if you dont know what it is http://www.global-defence.com/2001/SeaSpart5.html )

Pretty sucky if we just got the first ships and then just scrap the whole thing

 

[Varg|Hund]

I think the Visby will be commisioned as planned. One of the 7 remaining ships.

 

[ThomasToad]

Some of you are being pretty ignorant about the uncertain world we live in. In all likelihood Sweden won't be invaded or need the use of a large army in the next 10-15 years but who can predict what unforeseen threats and problems can arise in the world. I would love to live in a world where every country could downsize their army like this because there was no chance of any fighting between countries...but that world simply doesn't exist. I don't know the statistics on the whole issue(how much downsizing) but some of you seem to think Sweden should have no army at all...

 

[Ghost Freeman]

Every country needs some form of defense just as an 'insurance policy' and for natural disasters. Even if it is to some extent, a civilian front.

Two cents.

 

[moppe]

Well, Sweden don't have so many natural hazards. It was some flooding this summer, and the army did help.

But in the north, it's only blizzards and avalanches. If you're prepeared you could fix it yourself.

I hope the VISBY will be commisioned, otherwise it was a huge waste of money.

 

[h00dlum]

Dont worry i will protect the borders with my tamed friendly polar bears..

btw JAS 39 Gripen rulez.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Gripen

haha it always cracks me up that when they developed the plane there was sereval accidents. If this was a powerfull country it would be covered up to the public. But here they were totally open with it...

 

[NeLi]

Sweden ha not been to war for hundreds of years... We don't need an army.

We need a special task force of around one or two thousand men, divided into several sub-forces, specialized in various things, like emergency situations and U.N based missions.

 

[Varg|Hund]

haha it always cracks me up that when they developed the plane there was sereval accidents. If this was a powerfull country it would be covered up to the public. But here they were totally open with it...

Once again a reason why Sweden rocks.
*Vargs national pride kicks in

Sweden ha not been to war for hundreds of years... We don't need an army.

We need a special task force of around one or two thousand men, divided into several sub-forces, specialized in various things, like emergency situations and U.N based missions.

Exactly. Wasn't there talk of a combined European taskforce a while ago too?

 

[moppe]

I wonder if such things as the "Informationsbyrån" really exist?
It would be awful if they did.


But afterall, Jan got put in prison for it.

 

[The Monkey]

Just beacouse we have not been to war for 200 years doesn't mean we wont be to war in another 200 years. We have as little chance of knowing what happens in the futere, as the ones who lived in th 19th century could know about the present.

 

[NeLi]

Just beacouse we have not been to war for 200 years doesn't mean we wont be to war in another 200 years. We have as little chance of knowing what happens in the futere, as the ones who lived in th 19th century could know about the present.

Yeah, but building bigger armies isn't a solution to the "hypothetical hostile events" that may occur towards us in the future.

Basically, even if we get a "real" army, we would only be able to defend ourselves from countries like Finland and Norway, and in all honesty, that's a little unlikely.

 

[moppe]

Yeah, but building bigger armies isn't a solution to the "hypothetical hostile events" that may occur towards us in the future.

Basically, even if we get a "real" army, we would only be able to defend ourselves from countries like Finland and Norway, and in all honesty, that's a little unlikely.

But with an army, we can fight of a force of 200 armed people.
Without, we can't.

 

[Varg|Hund]

But with an army, we can fight of a force of 200 armed people.
Without, we can't.

Sure we can. Remember, the police and the special forces divisions still remain.

 

[moppe]

Sure we can. Remember, the police and the special forces divisions still remain.

Meh, shut up. :|

 

[Varg|Hund]

Tihihihi

 

[HunterSeeker]

Alliances == Teh win

Unless some seedy country is in the same alliance as you...

 

[The Monkey]

That's where UN comes in. Göran will come to New York and say: "Help, the russians are attacking, I demand that all countries in the world will send all their armies to help us!" And Koffin Annan will say: " Why did they attack you" "I accedently stole all their donuts."

 

[JimmehH]

Hehehe. A missile defense system called BAMSE. Crazy...

 

[Cybernoid]

"We don't need an army, without an army no one will attack us!"
"We haven't been at war for 200 years, therefore we will never be at war! We can predict the future!"
"The Americans will save us even if we are attacked!"
"We can still maintain credibility without an army! No one will laugh at us!"
"Wars don't exist because Bush took care of them!"
"Even if we did have an army, we'd lose! So why bother! It's not like Finland had a chance againts the Soviet Union during WW2! Oh, wait, they did! Shit!"

Oh dear God, help me...

 

[NeLi]

"We don't need an army, without an army no one will attack us!"

I never said that. I said downsize the army and specialize it in other things than global warfare.

"We haven't been at war for 200 years, therefore we will never be at war! We can predict the future!"

You see, we didn't say that either. We said that now, and in the nearby future, we will be protected by the UN and European union from bigger threats. So instead of wasting all our cash on tanks that will be obsolete within a decade, we should waste them on our people. You must understand that we can't defend ourselves from any bigger threat anyway.

"The Americans will save us even if we are attacked!"
"We can still maintain credibility without an army! No one will laugh at us!"

If you somehow think that having a bigger army gives a country more respect, you are ****ing stupid. It's like saying that the guy with the biggest gun is the one everyone respects. It's not true. It's the one everyone ****ing FEARS. Big difference. Respect should be earned through the countries living standars and etc etc.

"Wars don't exist because Bush took care of them!"

...?

"Even if we did have an army, we'd lose! So why bother! It's not like Finland had a chance againts the Soviet Union during WW2! Oh, wait, they did! Shit!"

The Finns lost more that 20 per cent of their 200,000 soldiers in three months. Then the government signed a peace treaty in Moscow that surrendered 16,000 square miles of territory to the Soviet Union. If you call that a victory... (lets not forget the pisspoor state the red army was in at the time either.)

 

[Cybernoid]

You see, we didn't say that either. We said that now, and in the nearby future, we will be protected by the UN and European union from bigger threats. So instead of wasting all our cash on tanks that will be obsolete within a decade, we should waste them on our people. You must understand that we can't defend ourselves from any bigger threat anyway.

Relying on others to help you is as stupid as it gets. The UN/EU may help, or they may not. And if other countries adopt your stance, there won't be anyone left to do anything.

If you somehow think that having a bigger army gives a country more respect, you are ****ing stupid. It's like saying that the guy with the biggest gun is the one everyone respects. It's not true. It's the one everyone ****ing FEARS. Big difference. Respect should be earned through the countries living standars and etc etc.

Fear, respect, what does it matter? It keeps enemies at bay.

The Finns lost more that 20 per cent of their 200,000 soldiers in three months. Then the government signed a peace treaty in Moscow that surrendered 16,000 square miles of territory to the Soviet Union. If you call that a victory... (lets not forget the pisspoor state the red army was in at the time either.)

We retained independence, that's all anyone cares about.

 

[NeLi]

Relying on others to help you is as stupid as it gets. The UN/EU may help, or they may not. And if other countries adopt your stance, there won't be anyone left to do anything.

See, I think it's the thing of the future. Let the countries disarm, and let the UN gather more troops instead. That way, we can't even have wars in Europe without UN's consent.

Fear, respect, what does it matter? It keeps enemies at bay.

See, we don't have enemies.

We retained independence, that's all anyone cares about.

Sure, and I wont say that your army didn't perform well. But the thing is, that it was a freak accident. If the red army would have invaded you during the hight of their power, your valiant army efforts would have only led to more fins dying, and nothing else. Besides, almost every other Sweden-sized country in Europe fell in the war. The fins got lucky.

 

[Cybernoid]

See, I think it's the thing of the future. Let the countries disarm, and let the UN gather more troops instead. That way, we can't even have wars in Europe without UN's consent.

I remember vaguely that they tried that "disarming" thing with Germany, before World War II.

See, we don't have enemies.

Yet. You don't have a crystal ball that can peer into the future.

Besides, almost every other Sweden-sized country in Europe fell in the war. The fins got lucky.

Hohoho. Whatever.

 

[Immortal]

I remember vaguely that they tried that "disarming" thing with Germany, before World War II.

Thats different, they were forced to disarm, in Treaty of Versailles

 

[NeLi]

I remember vaguely that they tried that "disarming" thing with Germany, before World War II.

No, not really. And besides, the UN wasn't worth shit back then. All they did to germany was to put the country in economic chaos and reduce their army. But then they stopped controlling the country, so the germans started rebuilding their army again.

Yet. You don't have a crystal ball that can peer into the future.

I think it's worth the chance. Someone has to take the step into a better and safer ****ing future, no matter how cheesy that sounds. Besides, they'd have to invade either denmark, norway or finland before getting to us anyway :cheers:

 

[Cybernoid]

I think it's worth the chance. Someone has to take the step into a better and safer ****ing future, no matter how cheesy that sounds. Besides, they'd have to invade either denmark, norway or finland before getting to us anyway :cheers:

Safety through insecurity and daydreaming. Hmm.

 

[NeLi]

Safety through insecurity and daydreaming. Hmm.

If you call a future without wars wrong, then i don't want to be right---

lol, that sounded more gay than I wanted it to.

Even if every god damned country on this earth would have their own army, the country with the bigger army would still prevail, meaning that the insecurity would always be there anyway.

let me have my dreams damnit.

 

[vetebulle]

No, not really. And besides, the UN wasn't worth shit back then. All they did to germany was to put the country in economic chaos and reduce their army. But then they stopped controlling the country, so the germans started rebuilding their army again.QUOTE]

Actually the UN didn't even exist back then. It was formed in 1945.

 

[Varg|Hund]

I agree with NeLi, all this is good. And I think one can safely say that there will be no threat towards Sweden our Europe for a very long time. That's a thing of the past. Wars don't exist here any more.

Yes, what I'm saying may seem pretty ignorant to some of you. But it's what I believe. A war in the western world is impossible.

 

[Cybernoid]

Yes, what I'm saying may seem pretty ignorant to some of you. But it's what I believe. A war in the western world is impossible.

Not too long ago, it was widely believed that war and barbarism was a thing of the past in the western world. Then World War I came. And World War II. And everything that followed. Countless people throughout history have probably thought that they've reached some sort of milestone, their lifetime is special and that wars will never happen again.

"History repeats itself" may be a cliche, but truer words have never been spoken.

 

[NeLi]

No, not really. And besides, the UN wasn't worth shit back then. All they did to germany was to put the country in economic chaos and reduce their army. But then they stopped controlling the country, so the germans started rebuilding their army again.QUOTE]

Actually the UN didn't even exist back then. It was formed in 1945.

Exactly :afro:

 

[NeLi]

Not too long ago, it was widely believed that war and barbarism was a thing of the past in the western world. Then World War I came. And World War II. And everything that followed. Countless people throughout history have probably thought that they've reached some sort of milestone, their lifetime is special and that wars will never happen again.

"History repeats itself" may be a cliche, but truer words have never been spoken.

Sweden, though, never took a bigger part in any of that.

 

[Sprafa]

World War I & II were preceded by huge international tensions, they didn't just came out of nowhere. The simple fact is the probability of war is low, and Sweden takes the chances. And I love the damn country for that.

 

[Cybernoid]

World War I & II were preceded by huge international tensions, they didn't just came out of nowhere. The simple fact is the probability of war is low, and Sweden takes the chances. And I love the damn country for that.

That's not the point. Before the wars and atrocities of the 20th century, people actually thought that wars and barbarism were a thing of the past. The probability of war may be low now but anything can happen.

 

[Sprafa]

That's not the point. Before the wars and atrocities of the 20th century, people actually thought that wars and barbarism were a thing of the past. The probability of war may be low now but anything can happen.

World War III would mean the end of the human civilization as we know it. So, really, why have an army ? If anyone invades Sweden in the current geopolitical situation it would eventually scale into WW3.

When the geopolitical situation changes, you can start thinking about re-arming. Stop being so afraid...

 

[NeLi]

That's not the point. Before the wars and atrocities of the 20th century, people actually thought that wars and barbarism were a thing of the past. The probability of war may be low now but anything can happen.

But probably not to Sweden. Now, lets take a look at why someone would like to invade sweden:

1- We have lots of trees
2- ...

That's right, there's absolutely no reason at all for any country in this world to invade Sweden.