Television = a mirror of Society?

[Dr. Freeman]

Janet Jackson's boob is the talk of most media these days.. and so a host of a local sports radio station The Fan590 made a comment of how television is a mirror of society.. and that got me thinking..

is this true? let me quote OCybrManO cause he hit home a point that is so true

Well, in their defense it was only partially covered. :E

Honestly, what the hell is so evil about a little brown circle with a bump in the middle? I mean, guys have them too... but you don't see theirs being censored. Ok, if it's not the nipple it must be the breasts themselves, right? Not exactly... you can show as much of the breasts as you want as long as no nipple is showing. What?!? So, we can see nipples... and we can see breasts... but we can't see them both at the same time? That is, unless you are in a designated nipple-viewing place... and you are old enough to vote. Wait a minute. We are allowed to suck on them when we are babies... then for the better part of two decades we aren't allowed to even look at them... and then they let us start doing whatever we want with them again? I'm confused.

if television is a mirror of society, then why is it taboo to see a boob during a super bowl half time show knowing such images are readily available on the net?

also want to touch on the Europe lifestyles vs American lifestyles.. why is it that overseas they are okay with nudity, but here its taboo? some times doesn't it make u wonder how invent this idea of why nudity is okay there and not okay here? hehe anyway, discuss.

 

[qckbeam]

I think a lot of it has to do with religion personally. Basically, America follows a moral system that is in strict accordance with Catholicism (which makes pretty much everything a sin). So, when Americans see something exposed on TV that they have been told for years is amoral, they respond accordingly (bitching, whining, complaining). America is behind the times really in many respects, and it has to do with religion. Ok, I'm sure this may end up getting flamed, but whatever, I'm sick and tired of it.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I think a lot of it has to do with religion personally. Basically, America follows a moral system that is in strict accordance with Catholicism (which makes pretty much everything a sin). So, when Americans see something exposed on TV that they have been told for years is amoral, they respond accordingly (bitching, whining, complaining). America is behind the times really in many respects, and it has to do with religion. Ok, I'm sure this may end up getting flamed, but whatever, I'm sick and tired of it.

hmm.. fine.. but then, isn't it weird that u have more religious stuff happening overseas than in America? the pope is a european main stay and thats just one example.. u can include stuff like Mother Treasa(sp?) statue.. i dunno if ur answer is on with what we see around the world..

and i hope u don't take this as a flame.. just as an observation..

 

[gh0st]

its taboo to see a 50 year old grandma boob.

 

[qckbeam]

hmm.. fine.. but then, isn't it weird that u have more religious stuff happening overseas than in America? the pope is a european main stay and thats just one example.. u can include stuff like Mother Treasa(sp?) statue.. i dunno if ur answer is on with what we see around the world..

and i hope u don't take this as a flame.. just as an observation..

nah, I don't take it as a flame at all

Perhaps then it is the American interpretation of religious texts and ideas that I have a problem with, and which have formed this crippled society. We have a lot of fundamentalists, and fanatics over here, some of which occupy some very high positions of authority.

 

[Asus]

Its taboo because its covered for a reason.
The reason it's covered is because of temptation,respect,morals and just because men would lust of that.
Some would say it would be abuse by corupt minds.
Men go shirtless is ok because ours is nothing tempting for women and it doesnt cover all what I listed before basicly.
Why they are called privates and mens nipples aren't.

It is usually understood when you grow-up because you mature.
Usually...

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Its all completely stupid, the situation is stupid, and the whole thing is being maned by old farts that have nothing better to do except keep things the way THEY want them and is not reflective of the new generation.

I iwsh old people would die already (Not reaally) beacuse thats the only way we can have change. Once you hit a certain stage in your life, everything goes one way, if it goes a differemt way its weird beacuse your not used to it or have been exposed to it.

Seriosuly if she didn't have that fatass nipple ring the entire situation would have blown over by now.

You can only blame ourselves.

I guess religion still has a lot of control in our society still. Man, this needs to end, its really getting old. No one believes it anymore anyway.

 

[qckbeam]

I guess religion still has a lot of control in our society still. Man, this needs to end, its really getting old. No one believes it anymore anyway.

heh, you'd be surprised what people will still believe

 

[fizzlephox]

I predict this will be a major issue in this year's election, it won't be the economy or the Iraq War. Professional athletes use of steroids was a major point in Bush's State of the Union Adress, so that'll be a major issue in the election too. So we need to know where politicians stand on steroids and nipples.

But this 'incident' really isn't important when you consider that there is more serious stuff going on all over the place.

 

[mchammer75040]

hmm.. fine.. but then, isn't it weird that u have more religious stuff happening overseas than in America? the pope is a european main stay and thats just one example.. u can include stuff like Mother Treasa(sp?) statue.. i dunno if ur answer is on with what we see around the world..

Its not as taboo in some other countries, but even if it is people need to just get over sexual exposures on TV. Its not that big of a deal and America keeps running away from it, thats the sign of a coward. Are we scared of boobies? Does the religious right have that tight of a grip on our society? Maybe this conformity is a good thing and its a slap to the face of America to wake up and see how irrational this really is.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Its taboo because its covered for a reason.
The reason it's covered is because of temptation,respect,morals and just because men would lust of that.

hmm.. okay, so according to u, men in Europe lust over topless women right?

hey all u European users, do u see men lust over topless women on a consistent basis? (noting that there will always be the odd man not used to seeing a topless woman.. )


and so far, from all the pple that have commented in this thread haven't given their thoughts on whether television is a mirror of society.. why is it okay to see violence on tv, but as soon as u see Janet's boob its like "omfgzors!!! a boob, oh my eyes!1!!!!1" regardless of how ugly or beautiful it is.. its a boob, not a nuke..

 

[mchammer75040]

and so far, from all the pple that have commented in this thread haven't given their thoughts on whether television is a mirror of society.. why is it okay to see violence on tv, but as soon as u see Janet's boob its like "omfgzors!!! a boob, oh my eyes!1!!!!1" regardless of how ugly or beautiful it is.. its a boob, not a nuke..

I would say it is, it shows how we are such big hypocrites and so gullible.

 

[LoneDeranger]

You don't get the point. Had her outfit accidently fallen off, nobody would say anything. This happens a lot, BTW, especially during fashion shows. Yeah there would still be perverts trading "niple slip" pictures, but it wouldn't be front page news; it wouldn't even be mentioned anywhere. So now in the right context I hope this makes sense.

As far as nudity on TV in general, yes we do have it here in the US (in limited quantities). Yeah, you all scream "We wanna see more boobs on TV!". But I don't think most of us would enjoy turning on the TV and seeing a penis? Right?

And last, but not least, if you wanna see boobs and/or penis on US TV, wtach National Geographic on PBS. That's right, public television, not cable or anything.

I feel silly just arguing here, but all of you guys don't seem to get the idea.

 

[qckbeam]

You don't get the point. Had her outfit accidently fallen off, nobody would say anything. This happens a lot, BTW, especially during fashion shows. Yeah there would still be perverts trading "niple slip" pictures, but it wouldn't be front page news; it wouldn't even be mentioned anywhere. So now in the right context I hope this makes sense.

So what, the fact is people got all bent out of shape over what was (intentional or not) a minor incident.

As far as nudity on TV in general, yes we do have it here in the US (in limited quantities). Yeah, you all scream "We wanna see more boobs on TV!". But I don't think most of us would enjoy turning on the TV and seeing a penis? Right?

heh, speak for yourself

In all seriousness though, people have got to get over nudity. We all have sexual parts, sex and sexuality are a HUGE part of human life. But it's taboo (because of religion and peoples so-called morals) and left alone. Sex isn't "dirty" and sexual organs aren't "dirty", so I wish society would grow up and stop treating them as such.

As far as TV being a mirror of society, I don't agree. Many things may be shown on television, but still be very taboo in modern society (Janet Jackson is a perfect example, if society was mirrored through the TV, no one would be making a stink about it).

 

[Fender357]

K..........since I dont know much bout stuff........... You said that the general moral system in America is based on Catholicism (very true). But what is the general moral system of Europe based on?
I'm just kinda interested.

 

[Shuzer]

K..........since I dont know much bout stuff........... You said that the general moral system in America is based on Catholicism (very true). But what is the general moral system of Europe based on?
I'm just kinda interested.

nudity!



..just kidding

 

[qckbeam]

K..........since I dont know much bout stuff........... You said that the general moral system in America is based on Catholicism (very true). But what is the general moral system of Europe based on?
I'm just kinda interested.

Well I have no real idea, since I don't live in Europe

I believe it's probably the same as in America, only we interpret the same things quite a bit differently. So although our sources are the same, our particular interpretations of the original material differ.

Europe does tend to have a much more open society, especially places like France. They are much more tolerant, and open-minded, and they aren't afraid of the human body (not to mention much more accepting of different lifestyles, but that may be for a different thread).

 

[famas_man]

The less public nudity/sex on T.V., internet, etc the better IMO. That sort of thing is meant to be personal.

 

[Sulkdodds]

But what is the general moral system of Europe based on?

Cynicism.

The bulk of American authority is supremely hypocritical...right?
As for the pope, he's a conplete idiot, an utter bastard and senile to boot. We need a new pope...the kind of pope that believes in freedom and real morality, the kind of pope who actually stops Africa's AIDS crisis instead of creating it, the kind of pope who will sit down on his throne and say 'this chair hurts. Bring me a cushion'. Yeah, that kind of pope.

 

[Dedalus]

i think the difference between america and europe is the way we talk about things. a lot of american's say stuff like 'this is a certain way' or 'you are hiding something'. europeans seem to be a bit different, we generally aren't so paranoid about people and don't always use 'is' with so much conviction, if you know what i mean.

anyway about the boob. i really think it's sad that people try to hide these sorts of things away from everyone and generally try and shield everyone from 'filth'. i mean, it's just demonstrating ignorance and it perpetuates it too. i mean, can you actually teach someone to be ignorant? why would you want to do that anyway? i guess you don't actually teach them but neglect their learning so eventually they become ignorant. it's like saying 'if i don't see it or know it then i'm happy', and that's a stupid way to live with rose petals infront of your eyes, which is how most of the youth (both in the US and europe/asia etc) is being brought up.

tv reflective of our society? hmm interesting one that's been delved into before. well personally, tv in no way reflects my life or the life of people around me. although there are a huge number of people i see who's lives revolve around the tv as it's kind of like their 'how you should be living your life' sort of guide. i find that sick. you choose how to live your life! not some cathode tube sitting in your living room! but then i suppose i'll have to contradict myself now and say that yes, tv is pretty much reflective of our society. actually scrap that. tv is a parallel of how most people really are on the inside, on the outside they're different, but inside...

lastly, i don't mind religion and religious people, yeah it's great that you have a faith and it makes you happy, keep on it. but what i hate is when lots of people suffer for the ignorance and bigotted attitudes of the religious. just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Element Alpha]

I think it's horrible what governements and private enterprises have done with a medium like television. It could have been marvellous.

Ho well.

I heard once that the difference between Europeans and Americans is that Europeans tend to want to make the world like they would like to see it, while Americans tend to take the world as it is and act accordingly. ... Maybe. btw I'm European and I used the word 'tend'. oh, and I like boobies.

 

[Rilcon]

K..........since I dont know much bout stuff........... You said that the general moral system in America is based on Catholicism (very true). But what is the general moral system of Europe based on?
I'm just kinda interested.

An odd mix of christian morals and sex.

 

[Maxi]

We are generally more liberal here in Europe, more democratic, less lies in politics etc. of the people I know, none are very religious, also finnish people in particular takes everything with ease, for example a new tv series started on Nelonen (finnish tv channel) called Suomen Robinson, thats kinda like survivor, it's based of the swedish expedition robinson. Anyway the finnish people on that show aren't stressed at all, they are taking every situation calmly. So I think americans are more stressed then europeans and also more of an attention seeking people.

 

[AmishSlayer]

hmm.. okay, so according to u, men in Europe lust over topless women right?

hey all u European users, do u see men lust over topless women on a consistent basis? (noting that there will always be the odd man not used to seeing a topless woman.. )

Ah... you didn't mention it.. but it's the same with alcohol use in the US and some European countries. US...it's illegal 'till 21...so minors are drinking and getting completely smashed because it's rebellious, taboo, or just plain fun. Some Euro countries don't even have a drinking age...and they have lots less deaths due to drinking as well (some countries are extremely harsh when it comes to DUI's too).

It's not a big deal in Europe because it's something they've just been around.. it's something they may have been slowly weaned into growing up. I think it's probably the about same thing with nudity.

US is another story though...we have some overprotective psychos over here that get offended at the slightest change from the norm over here. Take the GTA:VC "Kill Hatians" thing. They're talking about a gang...not the whole race. It's all these people that sue for every damn thing (like the classic woman with the hot coffee at McDonald's...or any of the suits from HERE These are the people that help give US it's bad reputation and are bringing society closer and closer to stupid "Polictical Correctness"

 

[CrazyHarij]

Who the f**k goes around on the forums saying nudity is allowed in Europe? It's as much taboo as it is in the US.

 

[Maxi]

Not really... We have commercials on prime time where there's the odd nipple, pussy, dick etc.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Not really... We have commercials on prime time where there's the odd nipple, pussy, dick etc.

When I was in Czech Republic there were some signs on buildings showing naked chicks pointing to a strip club down the road in downtown Prague. That's just one of the many examples that I could throw out there from a 2 week visit there. I'm sure if I had watched more TV and such.. I would've seen more..

 

[Rilcon]

You can't have the TV on for more than five minutes without seeing a nude woman in some commercial, and I'm not talking about seeing a womans back, we get full frontal nude. And it's nowhere near as taboo, if any, as in america.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Not here in the UK. The UK is different from the rest of Europe .


I don't like the uptight laws about drinking and sex and nudity and all the other controvertial things. I mean I personally think canabis should be legalised. Or make it legal to smoke it so long as its in your own home. And up the penalty for smokeing it anywhere else. That way people will smoke it but will definatly stay away from doing it in public and risking stuff happening....


Just a thought. A quick thought..... (a not very well thought out thought lol)




Anyway, I'm liberal in case you didn't notice. :rolling: :bounce: :imu:

 

[Thadius Dean]

its funny, my mom will hand me the paper and say "want to read the article on janets breast?" and im like sure.

she didnt say that exactly, but you get what i mean. my mom doesnt care if i see it or not (im 14)

 

[Dr. Freeman]

some really interesting views of society we have in here.. and seeing everyone's own interpretation of how society is now.

its still baffling how in one part of the world u can have advertising boards of nude women as AmishSlayer pointed out, and in the other part of the world a boob makes headlines.. (for the right or wrong reasons, i'll let u decide )

Some Euro countries don't even have a drinking age...and they have lots less deaths due to drinking as well (some countries are extremely harsh when it comes to DUI's too).

i'd personally like to see some stats on countries that don't have drinking laws.. although im sure someone here gonna come along and say "no drinking law is not related to less deaths due to drinking" still it be interesting to see

It's not a big deal in Europe because it's something they've just been around.. it's something they may have been slowly weaned into growing up. I think it's probably the about same thing with nudity.

probably, but then again.. those countries in Europe that are more open towards nudity probably still do have men and women alike who lust/oogle at nude pple..

i agree that we as a society need to get over nudity/sex/sexuality since it is a huge part of who we are..

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Personally, i dont want to see lots of naked people runnining around but people should have the choice HOwever having the choice should mean that it isnt there automatically, because i dotn think it does childern any good seeing that kind of stuff when they are young. Unless of course its educational, in which case its ok. Because if a child were to, for instance, watch a porn film, i know it wouldnt do anything good for them.

Anyway, as far as this incident. I think that its sad when people have to start using the sexual organs in a publicity stunt. Sex is the cheap mans way of advertising, it requires no thought what so ever to use. "Slap some boobs on it and it sells" is the idea.

People are getting in a big fuss about this, when it should quite frankly be ignored for the shameless publicity stunt that it is. Something more important should make the headlines...

 

[Rilcon]

Actually, Spain is so, uhm, 'liberal', with these things because the country got out of an oppressing far-far-far-far-right catholic dictatorship not so long ago, and society is like that thingy old clocks have, where when on the limit on one side, once let free, it goes to the exact opposite side.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Personally, i dont want to see lots of naked people runnining around but people should have the choice HOwever having the choice should mean that it isnt there automatically, because i dotn think it does childern any good seeing that kind of stuff when they are young. Unless of course its educational, in which case its ok. Because if a child were to, for instance, watch a porn film, i know it wouldnt do anything good for them.

Anyway, as far as this incident. I think that its sad when people have to start using the sexual organs in a publicity stunt. Sex is the cheap mans way of advertising, it requires no thought what so ever to use. "Slap some boobs on it and it sells" is the idea.

People are getting in a big fuss about this, when it should quite frankly be ignored for the shameless publicity stunt that it is. Something more important should make the headlines...

i agree with ur sentiments.. i don't want pple running around naked, flaunting themselves (no Shuzer, i don't wanna see u running around either.. seriously j/k ) but at the same time.. such a big fuss was made over a boob... i bet u guys the message of "this cheap mans way of advertising isn't gonna work here" by totally ignoring the boob incident would have sent the right message..

but.. we chose to have it as a headline, nevermind the game, which was the most exciting super bowl game in recent years.. infact, some sports pple said it was one of the most exciting finishes to a game in super bowl history.. yet, what did we talk most about? a boob.. what will be most remembered of this super bowl? a cheap stunt MTV and Janet pulled to bring some attention to themselves.. bah

 

[Sprafa]

Actually, Spain is so, uhm, 'liberal', with these things because the country got out of an oppressing far-far-far-far-right catholic dictatorship not so long ago, and society is like that thingy old clocks have, where when on the limit on one side, once let free, it goes to the exact opposite side.

Indeed. If you (like me) Go from a conservatist country like mine (portugal) in to Spain, You'll freak out. It's like sex-sex-sex-sex-sex-sex-sex....very nice country indeed.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Thats what we think of the Dutch... (I'm in England) Although the idea of living in the Netherlands doesn't really do anything for me.

 

[qckbeam]

I just can't understand why we feel that "the children" must be shielded from anything sex related. Jesus, kids figure out about sex pretty quickly, you know, through those weird little kid sex games they play. People are sexual, and keeping information about sex and sexuality from everyone until they are adults may retard their sexual growth. I just don't get it. Every man has a penis, every woman has a vagina and two breasts with nipples, why are they hidden from sight. It's not like it stops sexual lust or something, actually, it increases it, since humans want what they can't see even more than what they can.

 

[not28]

nah, I don't take it as a flame at all

Perhaps then it is the American interpretation of religious texts and ideas that I have a problem with, and which have formed this crippled society. We have a lot of fundamentalists, and fanatics over here, some of which occupy some very high positions of authority.

Most (if not all) of those fundamentalists and fanatics came from Europe. Remember, the English Church was Catholic until Henry VIII created the Anglican Church.

I don't know what the religious situation in Europe is now, but I'm sure there are still a lot of fanatics. Europeans just don't tie their religious morals with the media. It's kind of hypocritical; but then, so is everything else.

I am a Catholic but I can identify with people who think religion is a bad thing in certain respects.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

What i mean qck is that a kid watching a pron film will get a wrong idea of what its like. You need to educate them properly about the complications. Even if they dont out right copy the film, it will have a lasting impact.

 

[qckbeam]

What i mean qck is that a kid watching a pron film will get a wrong idea of what its like. You need to educate them properly about the complications. Even if they dont out right copy the film, it will have a lasting impact.

Oh, well I think porn itself is quiet a vile thing, and can affect anyone in a negative way. I totally agree about keeping children from pornography.