the death penalty is barbaric

[15357]

I advocate capital punishment. However, I have some recommendations that could improve it.

#1. Public Punishment. You can't really get a sense of, "Oh noes, I'm gonna die so I better not do that!" If you can't actually see the person executed. So, Live TV or public square.

#2. Uniform method. What's with frying and poisonning and hanging and beheading and shooting all those prisoners? It would be easier to just shoot everyone instead of choosing a method.

#3. Quicker executions: prisoners cost the State too much money. Just get it over with.


However, I'd like to note that with the exception of political criminals, people who deserve the death penalty also usually deserve a 16-hour workday in a salt mine for the rest of their miserable lives. Let them give something back to the society that they have betrayed before they die of "natural causes" or workplace hazards.

 

[Captain M4d]

Here, it's used as a deterrent.

Deterrent? I doubt that many criminals consider the consequences when they commit a crime. Maybe not all of them, but not enough for the death penalty to be considered a deterrent.

Another serious problem with the death penalty is when those who are wrongly accused end up on death row.

So far, there have been 139 convicts who have had their cases overturned while on death row. Here's all the information you need: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

Death is simply too permanent and irrevocable of a punishment to do any good for the world.

 

[Shyam]

Deterrent? I doubt that many criminals consider the consequences when they commit a crime. Maybe not all of them, but not enough for the death penalty to be consider a deterrent.

I can understand it for a mass murderer, but China seems to use it for trivial crimes. And China is a very corrupt country. It's easy for innocents to get hanged. Just have the right amount of money.

 

[Sparta]

Obvious, "killing serial killers won't bring back the victim's lost loved ones" meme is obvious.

Rather I look at it as no more innocent casualties. However, with the US's death penalty, it's like 10 years or so of taxpayer mooching before a death row innmate is put down even if there's no case to argue whether or not they are innocent. If there's no red tape, whack em' sell their organs to science, and move on.

But the appeals system in the U.S. is an absolute joke. It's ridiculously inefficient and in Texas, the appeals system for death row is often referred to as "Death by Fax" because the judges on the board of appeals aren't even required to prove that they've indeed read the appeal before submitting their verdict on it.

The better question to ask instead of "is justice served through the death penalty", would be "is risking innocent life worth the outcome". For me, the only outcome of the death penalty is revenge in my eyes, so I don't want to risk the likelyhood of killing an innocent to satisfying the barbaric calls for revenge even while there may be some sound economic qualms about taxpayer money being used to keep the perpetrators locked up for the rest of their lives.

If people were really worried about the economic cost the prison system has on the taxpayer, they'd be calling to review and possibly overhaul the laws on drugs and the war on drugs.

 

[Saturos]

I advocate capital punishment. However, I have some recommendations that could improve it.

#1. Public Punishment. You can't really get a sense of, "Oh noes, I'm gonna die so I better not do that!" If you can't actually see the person executed. So, Live TV or public square.

#2. Uniform method. What's with frying and poisonning and hanging and beheading and shooting all those prisoners? It would be easier to just shoot everyone instead of choosing a method.

#3. Quicker executions: prisoners cost the State too much money. Just get it over with.


However, I'd like to note that with the exception of political criminals, people who deserve the death penalty also usually deserve a 16-hour workday in a salt mine for the rest of their miserable lives. Let them give something back to the society that they have betrayed before they die of "natural causes" or workplace hazards.

^I like number's style. Quick, efficient, and gets the point across to would-be wrongdoers who would commit crimes against humanity.

But the appeals system in the U.S. is an absolute joke. It's ridiculously inefficient and in Texas, the appeals system for death row is often referred to as "Death by Fax" because the judges on the board of appeals aren't even required to prove that they've indeed read the appeal before submitting their verdict on it.

The better question to ask instead of "is justice served through the death penalty", would be "is risking innocent life worth the outcome". For me, the only outcome of the death penalty is revenge in my eyes, so I don't want to risk the likelyhood of killing an innocent to satisfying the barbaric calls for revenge even while there may be some sound economic qualms about taxpayer money being used to keep the perpetrators locked up for the rest of their lives.

If people were really worried about the economic cost the prison system has on the taxpayer, they'd be calling to review and possibly overhaul the laws on drugs and the war on drugs.

Your argument of a possible case of falsely condemning an innocent is simple, stop hiring fine art graduates to do the detective work.

 

[Sulkdodds]

#3. Quicker executions: prisoners cost the State too much money. Just get it over with.

I would remind you that all the money in the death penalty goes to supporting the appeals process and giving the prisoners the rights that are due to them. But then I remembered you don't believe in rights and stuff!

HEY SATUROS, THE DEATH PENALTY IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN A LIFE SENTENCE

 

[Saturos]

I would remind you that all the money in the death penalty goes to supporting the appeals process and giving the prisoners the rights that are due to them. But then I remembered you don't believe in rights and stuff!

HEY SATUROS, THE DEATH PENALTY IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN A LIFE SENTENCE

Exactly, and it shouldn't be because bullets are cheaper.

The whole process is a clusterf**k mess that costs too much which is why the death penalty in first world countries needs an overhaul and therefore why I support Number's idea.

 

[blackout]

In most cases I don't agree with capital punishment. Some exceptions though. I didn't disagree with the hanging of Saddam Hussein for example.

yeah I might make the occasional exception, but for less large-scale things like drug-dealing in this case, and murder, I hate capital punishment.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Barbaric yes, but necessary barbarism. The United States' economy can barely afford to support a prison populace is it is. So long as the proper evidence is presented so nobody innocent is put down though or if the criminal is caught red-handed. (D.C. sniper incident)

Fix'd. And could there possibly be another way to lower the amount of prisoners other than just, y'know... start shooting people?

*disclaimer* I'm sure there's a bunch of countries whose prisons might be economically unfeasable, but in the western world, I don't think anyone can beat or come near the US. Possibly Russia. But let's not try to aim for what Russia's doing, huh?

Deterrent? I doubt that many criminals consider the consequences when they commit a crime. Maybe not all of them, but not enough for the death penalty to be considered a deterrent.

This. Murders of passion aren't premeditated. If I find my girlfriend in bed with my best friend, and I have a gun in the room, I'm not gonna weigh the pros and cons- I'm just gonna kill 'em. People who kill for money (drug dealers, mobsters, hitmen) know the risks and pretty much live with the chance of being shot in their day-to-day life anyway. And people who murder because they *have* to, aren't gonna be deterred no matter what the crime is.

 

[Saturos]

Fix'd. And could there possibly be another way to lower the amount of prisoners other than just, y'know... start shooting people?

*disclaimer* I'm sure there's a bunch of countries whose prisons might be economically unfeasable, but in the western world, I don't think anyone can beat or come near the US. Possibly Russia. But let's not try to aim for what Russia's doing, huh?

You want your SPACE ELEVATORS don't you? These prisoners, these USELESS WASTE OF OXYGEN GASBAGS are CUTTING INTO NASA FUNDING!!!


/AJ agrees and leaves thread

 

[Tagaziel]

The whole process is a clusterf**k mess that costs too much which is why the death penalty in first world countries needs an overhaul and therefore why I support Number's idea.

And innocent people get killed in the process, because of wrongful convictions and a more "efficent" system.

Death penalty is state-sanctioned murder, that undermines the very moral basis of government. It's trying to solve the problem of killing with more killing.

A cheaper alternative is making prisoners work off their sentences and tie their living conditions and privileges directly to their efficency. Not only is it less morally reprehensible, it's also beneficial economically.

I advocate capital punishment. However, I have some recommendations that could improve it.

#1. Public Punishment. You can't really get a sense of, "Oh noes, I'm gonna die so I better not do that!" If you can't actually see the person executed. So, Live TV or public square.

#2. Uniform method. What's with frying and poisonning and hanging and beheading and shooting all those prisoners? It would be easier to just shoot everyone instead of choosing a method.

#3. Quicker executions: prisoners cost the State too much money. Just get it over with.


However, I'd like to note that with the exception of political criminals, people who deserve the death penalty also usually deserve a 16-hour workday in a salt mine for the rest of their miserable lives. Let them give something back to the society that they have betrayed before they die of "natural causes" or workplace hazards.

Are you sure you're from South Korea? From the looks of it, you sound like a North Korean prison warden with some Rudolf Höß thrown in for good measure.

 

[Saturos]

And innocent people get killed in the process, because of wrongful convictions and a more "efficent" system.

Death penalty is state-sanctioned murder, that undermines the very moral basis of government. It's trying to solve the problem of killing with more killing.

A cheaper alternative is making prisoners work off their sentences and tie their living conditions and privileges directly to their efficency. Not only is it less morally reprehensible, it's also beneficial economically.

I prefer to look at it as cutting out the cancer of society.

I do like your idea though. Put prisoners to work in "prison factories/mines".

Or we could substitute them for innocent lab monkeys/mice. We could always use live human test subjects for new vaccinations and nanotechnology.

 

[Tagaziel]

I prefer to look at it as cutting out the cancer of society.

Doesn't change the fact it's murder.

I do like your idea though. Put prisoners to work in "prison factories/mines".

Or we could substitute them for innocent lab monkeys/mice. We could always use live human test subjects for new vaccinations and nanotechnology.

Of course, all done with respect to inalienable human rights. You can't say you're a civilized society without treating everyone equally.

 

[Saturos]

Doesn't change the fact it's murder.



Of course, all done with respect to inalienable human rights. You can't say you're a civilized society without treating everyone equally.

I'm a civil elitist then.

 

[Tagaziel]

I'm a civil elitist then.

I.e. bigot.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

You want your SPACE ELEVATORS don't you? These prisoners, these USELESS WASTE OF OXYGEN GASBAGS are CUTTING INTO NASA FUNDING!!!

Actually, I think most prisons are run by the state they're in, and thus don't cost anything out of the federal budget, only federal prisons do, and federal prisons make up, like 6% of the US inmate population.

Sooo... No. AJ does not agree and leave the thread.

 

[Saturos]

What's wrong with doing things efficiently? I thought you guys laugh in the face of morality in the name of science and progress? MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!!!

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I guess I think the death penalty isn't very efficient.

 

[Saturos]

I guess I think the death penalty isn't very efficient.

Wait, I thought it was because you all believed it's cruel?

Give me supporting evidence otherwise I'm not convinced. I want STATISTICS from a reliable source.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Wait, I thought it was because you all believed it's cruel?

Give me supporting evidence otherwise I'm not convinced. I want STATISTICS from a reliable source.

I'm not quite sure why I am suddenly supposed to be speaking for everybody in this thread, but yes, I do believe it's cruel. However, if I had seen evidence that the death penalty had the effect of say, halving the amount of murders I might think it was worth it. As it is, I don't think it is worth it.

 

[Saturos]

I'm not quite sure why I am suddenly supposed to be speaking for everybody in this thread, but yes, I do believe it's cruel. However, if I had seen evidence that the death penalty had the effect of say, halving the amount of murders I might think it was worth it. As it is, I don't think it is worth it.

I think we can both agree then that it isn't a good deterrent, but then tell me why my or number's method won't save alot of money for citizens who deserve to have benefits or for programs that would profit mankind as a whole? Some sacrifices are needed.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I think we can both agree then that it isn't a good deterrent, but then tell me why my or number's method won't save alot of money for citizens who deserve to have benefits or for programs that would profit mankind as a whole? Some sacrifices are needed.

It probably would. But we don't have slave labour in most democracies today. We also don't have the death penalty in most democracies today. They're kind of important steps in having a democracy...

 

[Saturos]

It probably would. But we don't have slave labour in most democracies today. We also don't have the death penalty in most democracies today. They're kind of important steps in having a democracy...

Our current democracy is too inefficient for space elevators or space colonization. Admit it.

A democracy is a political way of saying, "we vote to argue!" and while I'm grateful for the things it has brought us, it will ultimately hinder progress and mankind will wither away into mediocrity as they cannot put aside their petty differences and decide on a single principle or idea. There needs to be someone to tell people what to do and when to do it, so be sure to vote for me as Administrator of the Earth in the coming elections. oh wait, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE!!! HAR HAR!!

I must retire to my quarters and think about my plans for world domination while I masterbate. Ciao.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Our current democracy is too inefficient for space elevators or space colonization. Admit it.

Show me your proof

 

[Saturos]

Show me your proof

Whoops, nope, sorry. I'm retired to my quarters and I'm busy masterbating! I'll show you proof tomorrow. Or next week maybe.

 

[Sparta]

The kind of society or form of government you seem to be advocating for would be something akin to modern day China, Saturos. How on Earth do you consider that a good goal worth aiming for?

 

[Solaris]

Jesus christ, Saturos... stay out of politics.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

The kind of society or form of government you seem to be advocating for would be something akin to modern day China, Saturos. How on Earth do you consider that a good goal worth aiming for?

China? Dragons? Saturos?

 

[13LACKBISHOP]

I don't think the death penalty is just because there is always the possibility that someone will be wrongly convicted(they could be found innocent later and then released) and there are much better ways to hand out justice and make the victims feel better about there punishment. Prisons could actually make money by making prisoners do back-breaking factory jobs from 6 in the morning to 1 in the morning. They will not be paid and they can sleep in a sleeping bag on there cell floor. Meals should only provide the stuff they need to be healthy but not taste good at all. The kind of jobs that really suck and that no one else wants to do. They can use the money earned to pay back the victims to make them feel better or even charity. Imagine that for 60 years. Much worse than death penalty and does not involve murder. More justice for victims and does not involve a flawed human being saying who should live and die. If a mistake should happen with the death penalty they cannot be brought back to life(could do a really crappy factory job for 20 years and get released but sh** happens). Also death penalty is to quick. No satisfaction for victims. In fact this could be used to turn all prisons into business and all prisoners into workers. Make money to go back to tax payers(also victims) pockets and even help fund legal system. More incentive for cops to catch criminals. More criminals caught then more factory workers.

In fact I think it will be a very good deterrent against commiting crime and make released prisoners appreciate life more and want to stay away form crime becasue of not wanting to go back.

People who need to steal to survive or the very poor will be sent to more cushy prisons and will focus more on rehabilitation and education because they do not deserve the above and it will help them go back to a better life when they go out. When released they will be supported for a amount of time so they can find there own job and place. People who can afford to get drunk and go out and pick fights will not have this luxury.

 

[Solaris]

I don't think prisons should be run on the basis of what's worse for the criminal, nor what's most profitable for society.

Instead, their should be a clear withdrawal of certain freedoms to balance the crime they had committed. Remember in ancient Greece, Justice was a word which meant the natural balance of the world.

However, the clear focus of prisons should be re-rehabilitation, with focus on education, mental health care and the like.

However, I must admit their is a quasi-fascist idea in my head of just parachuting criminals above Somalia. I bet if you put me in a classroom of people about to leave school, I could tell you in 2 minutes who would go on to be productive and who wouldn't. Might as well just pre-empt the crime and send them to somalia too.

However, obviously that would be wrong...

 

[Sheepo]

So to make the death penalty less expensive we just make it incredibly easy to recieve it? How many dead innocent people are you willing to take responsibility for with this new policy?

 

[blackout]

I don't think prisons should be run on the basis of what's worse for the criminal, nor what's most profitable for society.

Instead, their should be a clear withdrawal of certain freedoms to balance the crime they had committed. Remember in ancient Greece, Justice was a word which meant the natural balance of the world.

However, the clear focus of prisons should be re-rehabilitation, with focus on education, mental health care and the like.

yeah that's another point- the justice system should be about rehabilitation not punishment, exept in the most extreme cases such as mass murder/genocide/crimes against humanity, even then I'd call it debatable as to whether teh death penalty is acceptable or not.

 

[Sheepo]

Why should it be?

 

[smwScott]

I agree with the notion that the mere chance of executing an innocent makes the death penalty unacceptable.

In an ideal world where guilt could be known with certainty, I'm still not sure I would support. While I don't necessarily have moral or ethical qualms with executing those who have killed others, I also don't believe that the government should have the right to kill a person. Maybe life in prison with an optional lethal injection if they so choose ...

 

[PvtRyan]

Barbaric yes, but necessary barbarism. The world economy can barely afford to support a prison populace is it is. So long as the proper evidence is presented so nobody innocent is put down though or if the criminal is caught red-handed. (D.C. sniper incident)

Money is such a non-issue. If the death penalty was instated here, we would perhaps at most execute one person a year (going from the one to two that get life here each year). That would net you a saving of like 40k a year and that's assuming the death sentence is completely free. If you want to save money, then aim on reducing the amount of small sentences, which make up the vast majority of the prison population. To talk about applying the death sentence to save money while when it's still possible to get imprisoned for possession of cannabis is completely and utterly retarded.

Besides, money is a very slippery slope. There are a lot of people that cost the state more than they bring in. You could save vastly more money by executing most thieves. Or, taking this into the absurd, by executing handicapped and sick people.

Also put yourselves in the victims seat. Lets say your wife was brutally stabbed along with your children and you were taped up and had to watch the entire tragedy. I'm pretty sure your stance might change if you were a victim in the matter or a family member/friend was involved in the crime.

This is pretty stupid too. Of course my stance would change, because I would react emotionally. Do you really want to base justice on subjective perceptions? And would you be content with the guy getting a lethal injection and slowly dozing off? Wouldn't you rather see him tortured? Nails pulled out, eyes getting poked with hot metal rods, that sort of thing? Should we now also instate torture?

 

[CyberPitz]

Undecided. I don't care, in all honesty.

Although, since I heard it, I'm more in favor of having the prisoner off himself. Solitary confinement with a noose on the ceiling.

 

[Tyguy]

Um, statistical evidence? If you're trying to say we shouldn't give in to compromising our ideals based on the possible practical effects, I would consider it, but I think you're on the wrong side of the debate to be doing that.

How could you not see the sarcasm in what I said? You're crazy...I like you, but your crazy

 

[Sheepo]

I kind of got the feeling you were being sarcastic, but it didn't really fit with the tone of your other posts. You win this round, scoundrel.

 

[FrostedxB]

Death panalty isn't really harsh enough. Its just electricity. What happened to the firing squads that lined people against a wall and shot them down?

Only in serious stuff though (murder/rape/any sex crime)

 

[blackout]

Death panalty isn't really harsh enough. Its just electricity. What happened to the firing squads that lined people against a wall and shot them down?

Only in serious stuff though (murder/rape/any sex crime)

does forgiveness mean anything to you?