The entire game is playable - Gabe

[The Mullinator]

I don't think anybody has ever had their opinions changed in one of these forum arguments. People come in stubborn and narrow minded and they don't get anything out of the discussion....
Even if you don't agree someone you should still look at their ideas; not be ignorant and call them a troll.

The people who post their opinions have probably not had their minds changed, however there are a lot of people who see these posts who do not feel to strongly for either side. Alot of those people will have probably become convinced of one side or another.

 

[Spiffae]

LOL. My mind entrenched in skepticism and hate ?? That’s a jolly good one.

Sorry, but I find it completely impossible to take your lengthy post even remotely seriously. Take that last paragraph for instance were you are talking about us being ungrateful sons of bitches. I mean seriously WTF is this. Valve software is a commercial company. We pay them money for their products. For this money they had better damn well deliver a quality product. And we absolutely don’t have to be grateful to them.

Your paragraph on the source engine had me seriously laughing out loud. Come on, are you really really thinking that virtually any game can be made with the source engine?? Have you even thought this one trough or are you just tapping away ?? Source is good. Source is damn good. But you don’t need to make any such outlandish statements to praise its qualities.

On the remote chance that as you say your post was indeed intended to be in earnest then I strongly suggest that the HL2 staff goes ahead and publish it as article indeed. Under the heading “retarded fanboy fiction”

well, h-52, you are the prime example of the person who comes to the forums with the narrowminded and stubborn personality. i say you just give this one to naft, because he's won. your posts are pesky, negative, and dismissive of his arguments, although you never present any of your own. just give up already.. pick a different fight.

 

[Vegeta897]

well, h-52, you are the prime example of the person who comes to the forums with the narrowminded and stubborn personality. i say you just give this one to naft, because he's won. your posts are pesky, negative, and dismissive of his arguments, although you never present any of your own. just give up already.. pick a different fight.

You do know that's just going to wind him back up...

The cold shoulder man, the cold shoulder.

 

[H-52]

well, h-52, you are the prime example of the person who comes to the forums with the narrowminded and stubborn personality. i say you just give this one to naft, because he's won. your posts are pesky, negative, and dismissive of his arguments, although you never present any of your own. just give up already.. pick a different fight.

Hah,

Naft dindt win this fight, beacause there never ever was a fight. He made a lengty tirade in support of certain software company. I commented that I didnt take him seriously. When he challenged me, I pointed out why this was so.

Negative?? Hey, I'm as much looking forward to HL2 as the next guy here. I just dont know if we are going to see it any time soon. And NO that doesnt mean I think it will be delayed untill next year, I just dont know when it will finally arrive in the stores.

Edit; more the 5K views on this thread alone *whistles softly*

 

[The Mullinator]

The delay of CS:CZ maybe?
With all the mods releasing with source engine (cs2 too) its sales would have droped a lot

I know its already been discredited but i'll say why it was.

Valve had actually finished the game, and it had gone gold. They even shipped a copy to various gaming magazines such as PC Gamer for it to be reviewed (PC Gamer reviewed the game months before it was released). The publisher Vivendi held up the game for some unknown reason, Valve may have had some involvment but it doesn't sound like they are the ones at fault since it was all Vivendi's decision to delay the game.

If your talking about the previous delays of it well then Valve isn't really totaly at fault either since they were not the only company that was developing it.

 

[Lobster]

this argument over dates and delays is going to rage up untill the game is released, its a losing battle on both sides, i say just give up and sit tight :O

 

[slicktick]

Well then Lobster, what would some of the people on these forums have to talk about?
j/k, that wasnt directed at anyone in particular, it just seems to come up alot.

 

[vicefredav444]

For this money they had better damn well deliver a quality product. And we absolutely don’t have to be grateful to them.

Your paragraph on the source engine had me seriously laughing out loud. Come on, are you really really thinking that virtually any game can be made with the source engine?? Have you even thought this one trough or are you just tapping away ?? Source is good. Source is damn good. But you don’t need to make any such outlandish statements to praise its qualities.

On the remote chance that as you say your post was indeed intended to be in earnest then I strongly suggest that the HL2 staff goes ahead and publish it as article indeed. Under the heading “retarded fanboy fiction”

Listen, I personally don’t want to be a "retarded fanboy" but I feel as though they're putting in all this time and effort and money into it and we put in 50 bucks, 50 bucks for 50million dollars worth of technology and so many years of work. You don’t "have" to be grateful but some people want to be grateful for what valve is doing. I would be grateful if any company decided to do what valve did with source/hl2.

Also, Source is not the Holy Grail that we all want that say "The Matrix" is but it’s the closest thing to it. Just like the rovers on mars right now are the stepping stones to a manned mission to mars, source is a stepping stone to virtual reality, every step counts and right now Source is pushing the boundaries and it’s the greatest thing to build a game on. Today that is, tomorrow we could have another huge leap. Everyday I keep learning something new source can do and it amazes me they invested so much to create this foundation for games. Its great, just be happy coz in the end we’re the ones that benefit from this.

 

[Lobster]

hehe, well im gratefull there making a game with Half-life and the number 2 in the name, im gonna buy it for that and that only, however the fact im gonna be able to stretch my thought to be out dated hammer skills on a next gen engine, continue in the largest gaming community on earth, and whack headcrabs with barrels! makes me an automatic fanboy.

 

[Naft]

LOL. My mind entrenched in skepticism and hate ?? That’s a jolly good one.

Sorry, but I find it completely impossible to take your lengthy post even remotely seriously. Take that last paragraph for instance were you are talking about us being ungrateful sons of bitches. I mean seriously WTF is this. Valve software is a commercial company. We pay them money for their products. For this money they had better damn well deliver a quality product. And we absolutely don’t have to be grateful to them.

Your paragraph on the source engine had me seriously laughing out loud. Come on, are you really really thinking that virtually any game can be made with the source engine?? Have you even thought this one trough or are you just tapping away ?? Source is good. Source is damn good. But you don’t need to make any such outlandish statements to praise its qualities.

On the remote chance that as you say your post was indeed intended to be in earnest then I strongly suggest that the HL2 staff goes ahead and publish it as article indeed. Under the heading “retarded fanboy fiction”

Well, the "mind entrenched in skepticism and hate" is not meant to be taken literally, to be frankly honest its only purpose is as a hyperbole that emphasizes the statement I made about you "reading too much into this"

One important thing: I did not say sons of bitches. I said bitches. the phrase "son of a bitch" (when referring directly to a person or people) is something that should only be used when you are killing that person or those people. It is just that low.

Yes, VALVe is a commercial company, we pay them for their products. But, until we pay them for their product, they owe us nothing, therefore:
1. We should(yet we don't have to) be grateful for what they have freely given us. Now, I'm not going to go parading around saying "Thank VALVe for every single tidbit they have given us", but I will say "Quit complaining about what they haven't done(which in truth is relatively small)."
2. They have no obligation to deliver a quality product whatsoever. Everything they do is up to them. If they want to release a shitty half-baked game, so be it. If we buy their shitty half-baked game, thats our fault. If they want to make us wait five years more, that's their decision.
3. Quit complaining. Based on VALVe's previous actions, this delay's only purpose is for a QUALITY PRODUCT. The worst thing about all of this is that our complaints focus on two contradictory goals. We want the game to be the best ever, but we aren't willing to wait for them to make it better. We want the game out now, but we if its crappy we'll be pissed.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that with a few additions, pretty much any game(except maybe an MMO) within the next decade could be made on Source. Maybe many won't need to be(and so the developers won't pay the extra money for Source), but they all could.

On the remote chance that as you say your post was indeed intended to be in earnest then I strongly suggest that the HL2 staff goes ahead and publish it as article indeed. Under the heading “retarded fanboy fiction”

I disagree with but entirely respect your position, but I'm afraid the heading is up to HL2.net

Originally Posted by Styloid
I don't think anybody has ever had their opinions changed in one of these forum arguments. People come in stubborn and narrow minded and they don't get anything out of the discussion....
Even if you don't agree someone you should still look at their ideas; not be ignorant and call them a troll.

The people who post their opinions have probably not had their minds changed, however there are a lot of people who see these posts who do not feel to strongly for either side. Alot of those people will have probably become convinced of one side or another.

True words both.

Naft dindt win this fight, beacause there never ever was a fight. He made a lengty tirade in support of certain software company. I commented that I didnt take him seriously. When he challenged me, I pointed out why this was so.

You are correct, I did not win this fight, there is no fight. I am simply presenting my views for two reasons: 1. To clarify my standpoint, since you apparently misinterpreted my purpose, and 2. Because the only people who usually speak up are the complainers, and I feel its time the sensible people say something.

 

[H-52]

.............

Ok, then, thank you for your clarification.

Let’s get trough it on a point by point system shan’t we?

I. Ok, you didn’t say “Sons of Bitches”. Thank you. And even though I’m not altogether sure what you mean by the ‘free stuff’ that Valve has given away (mod support on the original HL or do you mean the info we have seen so far??) but overall this point goes to you. I’d just like to take this opportunity that I would like more of Valve publicity effort directed at the online community.

II. Once again, this boils down to the very same point that has been made over and over again at this forum, if Valve is indeed planning on delaying the game by let’s say your five years then it shouldn’t create such a firestorm of publicity anout it.

III. On the source engine. I was so amused by your statement in your first post that the Source engine could be used to make just about any game without almost ‘little to no work neccesary’ that I have to say that I genuinely laghed out loud about it. Source is a damn good engine with it’s scalability as it’s main attraction. Two points about this.

a. If you are a major software house and start production on a triple A product today your game won’t be in the stores before summer 2006 at the earliest. And with that comes the realization that the potential custumorbase will be quite different and possibly significant higher end in terms of hardware installed.

b. The screenshots we have been seeing are absolutely amazing. Let me be clear about that. But there are still some questions about things like for example foliage (this may be an element of the art-design of the game though) and weather effects. And no, inserting things like these two won’t be a piece of cake for any licensee.

And for all those people who accuse me of negativity here the following; I think that sometime later this year I’ll be able to walk into a store and buy the magic wand –err sorry no the Half-Life Two box with it’s contains. Perhaps *crosses fingers* this will even be this summer. I know that this game will be good; I suspect that it will be great. There is even a chance that it will be a HEARTBREAKING WORK OF STAGGERING GENUIS. However, until the game has arrived on my hard disk and I’m playing this I just don’t know this is true. And frankly, I don’t believe that any of you should get his/hers expectations worked up right into the stratosphere. WHY? Because that way anything else will be just a disappointment for you. While I’ll have a pleasant surprise when the game appears and I’m playing it.

 

[Rupertvdb]

I'm too weak to tap away at some long winded response and just repeat myself but i'll give a small repsonse a shot. I respect what you're saying, you managed to create a longwinded piece of rhetoric out of a fairly old and stale topic, you did raise some good points though.

However, i said it before and i'll say it again, this whole Valve doesn't owe you anything stuff is just plain ridiculous. I understand your point but i cannot agree with it. (I think you mistook what i wrote last time as a demand for screenshots and media but i was actually saying the opposite).

Valve now owe us one game, polished, complete and fun. They said they would release it and now i would like it please. Until HL2 was announced and all this kicked off i was more than happy tapping away at HL mods and learning how to model. I didn't care about any of the shiny new games coming out because i had my HL. I played a demo if i wanted something new or i bought some 2 quid game from a bargain bin so it could work on my comp. However when they announced HL2 i changed my expectations accordingly, and now i want this new game.

This isn't the part where i say they owe me now because i don't wanting something is quite good enough a reason for them to give it to me. They made lots of announcements, they set a release date and worked towards achieving it. They failed but it wasn't a problem (for me) because they would have to release it at some point, announcements were made lots of stuff has gone on in the meanwhile and it looks like things are perking up again for a release.

All of this effort i have tiredly outlined would suggest a game is planned for release...this is what they owe us. Tey have said they will do somehting so now i reasonably expect them to do it. How good it is, how long, how much is another mater but its release at some point is not unreasonable.

 

[Apos]

But there are still some questions about things like for example foliage (this may be an element of the art-design of the game though) and weather effects. And no, inserting things like these two won’t be a piece of cake for any licensee.

Er... you're wrong about that. Both of these things are actually some of the easiest additions imaginable. Foliage even in Far cry is just layered sprites, and all sorts of weather effects can be simulated with particles and sprites and such. We've already seen that HL2 has detail textures, and they obviously have some foliage, as can be seen in the buggy vid, and then there are the creepy trees, which look totally awesome.

There are other things to worry about, such as whether the lighting engine will deliver, or if the physics implementation can work well without lots of clipping issues. But foliage and weather effects? That's just silly.

 

[H-52]

Er... you're wrong about that. Both of these things are actually some of the easiest additions imaginable. Foliage even in Far cry is just layered sprites, and all sorts of weather effects can be simulated with particles and sprites and such. We've already seen that HL2 has detail textures, and they obviously have some foliage, as can be seen in the buggy vid, and then there are the creepy trees, which look totally awesome.

There are other things to worry about, such as whether the lighting engine will deliver, or if the physics implementation can work well without lots of clipping issues. But foliage and weather effects? That's just silly.

That's not my point. My point was on the 'little or no extra work neccesaary' in Naft's first post.

Edit: when I'm talking about weather effects I'm talking about the kind of stuff seen in the STALKER tech vid's. But to be fair tou source, that game appears to have been delayed untill 2005.

 

[Rupertvdb]

oh then that companies owes nothing to us either, and they are all evil and their PR guy is a jerk and more perosnal comments aimed at their staff.... sigh

 

[Naft]

I. Ok, you didn’t say “Sons of Bitches”. Thank you. And even though I’m not altogether sure what you mean by the ‘free stuff’ that Valve has given away (mod support on the original HL or do you mean the info we have seen so far??) but overall this point goes to you. I’d just like to take this opportunity that I would like more of Valve publicity effort directed at the online community.

II. Once again, this boils down to the very same point that has been made over and over again at this forum, if Valve is indeed planning on delaying the game by let’s say your five years then it shouldn’t create such a firestorm of publicity anout it.

III. On the source engine. I was so amused by your statement in your first post that the Source engine could be used to make just about any game without almost ‘little to no work neccesary’ that I have to say that I genuinely laghed out loud about it. Source is a damn good engine with it’s scalability as it’s main attraction. Two points about this.

a. If you are a major software house and start production on a triple A product today your game won’t be in the stores before summer 2006 at the earliest. And with that comes the realization that the potential custumorbase will be quite different and possibly significant higher end in terms of hardware installed.

b. The screenshots we have been seeing are absolutely amazing. Let me be clear about that. But there are still some questions about things like for example foliage (this may be an element of the art-design of the game though) and weather effects. And no, inserting things like these two won’t be a piece of cake for any licensee.

I. Sorry, just a peeve of mine. I was actually referring to the information, bink videos, and screenshots, yes. I agree that a more public effort would indeed be nice, T'm just not sure that they have the resources at this point. Now they have begun releasing info in mags though, so things are looking up.

II. Agreed also, but again, I think they have done that. For about five years they kept entirely silent concerning HL2, which is impressive in my eyes. I'm sure the only reason they announced it when they did is because they felt fairly confident. A mistake on their part, perhaps, but you can't release a game without enough press buildup, so they really didnt have any alternative.

III. While I'm definitely not the foremost Source expert, I felt fairly confident about the knowledge I did have about its capabilities. Maybe I overestimated, a bad call on my part perhaps, but I felt that for that situation it was better to be liberal in my judgements and get people thinking than to be conservative and not make an impact.

(I think you mistook what i wrote last time as a demand for screenshots and media but i was actually saying the opposite).

no, that was nothing personal, I was merely reacting to the common demand through your statement

All of this effort i have tiredly outlined would suggest a game is planned for release...this is what they owe us. Tey have said they will do somehting so now i reasonably expect them to do it. How good it is, how long, how much is another mater but its release at some point is not unreasonable.

And it appears that we have only a little while longer to wait, I have the feeling that the VALVe PR maching is gearing up for some hardcore action, and I don't think we will be disappointed this time.


You know, I'm really glad this turned out well, most of the discussions/arguments I've heavily participated in on other forums have dissolved into biased yelling matches(probably partly due to an unhealthy zeal on my part), but here we have come to a mutual understanding, and everyone benifits, instead of everyone leaving angry and resentful.

Cheers

 

[Apos]

That's not my point. My point was on the 'little or no extra work neccesaary' in Naft's first post.

No, Naft is pretty much dead on. Both of these things are little more than plug-ins to any engine, not things that would require much work at all.

Edit: when I'm talking about weather effects I'm talking about the kind of stuff seen in the STALKER tech vid's.

Which, as I said, are not really much work at all to implement. It's the underlying particle/sprite systems which take work, and Hl2 already has as good or better as what would be needed to reproduce any effect stalker has with just a few lines of shader code.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Dude don't thank us it's totally reasonable to expect intelligent (maybe) and open debate, it sucks when ignorance and bad feelings shut stuff like this down. Anways, hopefully the fact this debate started (back on topic...lol) is that Gabe said that the entire game is playable and so hopefully, along with all the other media snippets we keep hearing about, the game can be released and my day can me made.

P.S. I agree with the whole making other games from the source, at least decent varieties, e.g. BF1942 shouldn't be that drastic to make and would be soo much fun, could be even better than the original, no?

 

[genocide604]

Its been done since sept 30th, they are just polishing it up.. so lets hope that this summer releases it..

I dont believe anything they say.. e3 will tell im sure.

 

[Rupertvdb]

thanks....

 

[ferd]

It doesn't matter that much you know :x

 

[H-52]

You know, I'm really glad this turned out well, most of the discussions/arguments I've heavily participated in on other forums have dissolved into biased yelling matches(probably partly due to an unhealthy zeal on my part), but here we have come to a mutual understanding, and everyone benifits, instead of everyone leaving angry and resentful.

Cheers

Same here dude.

We both have strong opinions and express them freely. I see no harm in that.

Peace.