The entire game is playable - Gabe

[Pi Mu Rho]

If that's the case then that demo will leak to the net in no time flat.

Demos don't leak from E3 - the developers tend not to let people take copies away

 

[RoguePsi]

If that's the case then that demo will leak to the net in no time flat.

Wich is the exact reason I doubt Valve will do anything like that.

Erm. If Valve have control of the booth where the demo's are, how can someone get a copy of the demo and leak it? :dozey:

It's actually possible for a non-journalist to get into e3 (I believe you can pay like $350 or something) but I doubt you'd have the security clearance to get within sight of the valve stand so I wouldn't bother dipping into your life savings.

It will be a playable demo (seeing as magazines have already played it but only a select few will get their hands on it) with videos and presentations supporting it. This is all speculation of course but I'd be surprised if it were any different.

 

[Seppo]

You people are paranoid! One harmless quote from Gabe spawns six pages of HL2 analyses. What are you, doctors of Pc gaming or what? You would think that kind of a reply from Gabe is good news. But no, you're gonna have to pick on every little thing they have said in the past year, and make stupid conclusions like "OMgZ LOL s0 the game has only 3 maps! Th3 lying vavle bastardz!"

I'm gonna laugh my assss out when the game releases this summer and you pessimistic ones are eating my shit! MWHAHA!!

 

[H-52]

Demos don't leak from E3 - the developers tend not to let people take copies away

Guys, and this is to the other people who responded to my post as well, I was of course referring to the famous leak of the DooM III demo. You know, the one that was played at the E3 and promptly leaked ??

Now, noone knows for sure that was indeed stolen at the e3, but methinks that Valve simply isnt going to take any chances.

 

[Bicka]

What Gabe is saying is that 3 levels is ~ almost nothing. By saying you can play the other 4 gigs also he means there is at least 4 gigs of levels and content avaible. Obviously there are more than 3 levels.

Lol he didnt say that, someone on this thread did silly! :smoking:

I don't want to bring everyone down who thinks the games finished, but even if the levels are all playable, what about the source code?
Last I heard they were having to go through the source code to alter bits and pieces to stop ppl hacking the engine when its released. This could still be on going...

 

[Orange]

Valve does have a history of delaying. That is a fact, not a commentary on the quality of the company or their products, don't take it as an insult.
More than HL1 was delayed (HL2 , TF2 [which showed at e3 in '99], CS:CZ). That is how people justify the statement that valve delays often.

2ndly, because a level is playable, it doesn't mean it's finished.
A level could have all the orange walls, and no NPC AI. but if you can pick up a gun, move , and shoot things (even without objectives, cues, or events), the game is technically playable isn't it?

The more i think about it, the remark does seem a little sarcastic. I also feel inclined to think of the phrase as not a lie, but perhaps not letting on the details, which only makes sense.

Happy yet skeptic. Don't want to get too enthralled one way or the other till it goes gold (and hopefully doesn't get delayed for 6 months ie CZ ).

 

[moppe]

Just to make a point, CZ was not made by VALVe.
Vivendi delayed it.

 

[Arno]

Guys, and this is to the other people who responded to my post as well, I was of course referring to the famous leak of the DooM III demo. You know, the one that was played at the E3 and promptly leaked ??

Now, noone knows for sure that was indeed stolen at the e3, but methinks that Valve simply isnt going to take any chances.

The Doom3 alpha was leaked in october 2002; several months after the E3.
With all the security surrounding the E3 booth, nobody can copy several GB of game data without anyone noticing.

 

[blahblahblah]

How playable is playable? Have the levels just been completed or are they tweaking enemy placement? Gabe Newell might as well say that Half-Life 2 will be done soon.

 

[Spiffae]

If that's the case then that demo will leak to the net in no time flat.

Wich is the exact reason I doubt Valve will do anything like that.

haha.... that's a good one. of course Valve will have a demo at E3. Valve will, along with every other gamve developer there. That's what E3 is. a series of game demos for people to play.

Now let's talk about what a leak is and how it happens. For something to be "leaked" generally an insider has to publish it to the internet. another possibility is for someone to burn the demo onto a CD or DVD, and then release it. yet another possibility is for someone to hack a computer, steal the files, then release them.

OK, now E3. Valve will most likely have some form of playable HL2 demo at the show. How would that leak to the internet? The computers are not connected to the internet. someone will sneak onto the computers, sam fisher style, quit the game, install nero, put in a blank cd, burn the game, all while the developers and the entire E3 crowd is right there? riiiight. Even if someone wanted to do that, the cases are probably hidden away in a locked cabinet to prevent people from tampering with them anyway.

If your reasoning was correct, every year, after E3, we'd see leaked demos of all the hot games hitting the web after E3. That doesn't happen. Valve will have a demo of Half-Life 2 at E3. the press and devs will get to play it. we will hear about it and see videos. We will play the game when it comes out.

the end.

EDIT: and regarding the D3 leak, there's a pretty good cause to believe that the leak came from ATI. Carmack made some statements that implied that the leak had come from one of their major business partners, and that he was pissed... then came the Nvidia partnership.

 

[deekey777]

"...and regarding the D3 leak, there's a pretty good cause to believe that the leak came from ATI. Carmack made some statements that implied that the leak had come from one of their major business partners, and that he was pissed... then came the Nvidia partnership"

The HL2 "beta" leak is caused by nVidia!?

 

[gooball]

Valve will most likely announce the game's release date at E3. They sort of did that last time, but if the game is level-complete, they ought to have an accurate date.

 

[H-52]

.............

Ok, now that's the most intellgent reply I've had all day here.

As to your points then.

Your post seems to be most concerned with the various technicalities of how to to actuallly do this thing called leaking. Now pardon me, but AFAIK this isnt as difficult as you seem to think that it is. All it takes is to have someone , even for a few minutes, to have acces to some unattended computer that has the vital files on it. All it takes after that is a laptop and a port. It's as easy as that.

Of course, I have to admit that leaks don't always happen. Id software showed off a multiplayer demo of DIII at the latest quakecon and not a thing leaked to the net.

Oh, and that memo by JC has been regarded for the longest time now as a fake.

 

[Spiffae]

Ok, now that's the most intellgent reply I've had all day here.

As to your points then.

Your post seems to be most concerned with the various technicalities of how to to actuallly do this thing called leaking. Now pardon me, but AFAIK this isnt as difficult as you seem to think that it is. All it takes is to have someone , even for a few minutes, to have acces to some unattended computer that has the vital files on it. All it takes after that is a laptop and a port. It's as easy as that.

Of course, I have to admit that leaks don't always happen. Id software showed off a multiplayer demo of DIII at the latest quakecon and not a thing leaked to the net.

Oh, and that memo by JC has been regarded for the longest time now as a fake.

to your points...

All it takes is to have someone , even for a few minutes, to have acces to some unattended computer that has the vital files on it.

I find the idea of a computer with HL2 on it just sitting at E3 unattended VERY unlikely.

After the leak disaster, and also with the attention everyone will be paying to HL2, i don't think it would be possible to find a computer with working HL2 on it, plug in a laptop, copy the files, and then saunter off without anybody watching.

Leaks don't always happen? Leaks almost never happen.

 

[Apos]

Leaks almost never happen just from game developers showing off their wares. They almost always happen because someone either breached NDA (usually some slob working for a hardware manufacturer who needed a test demo of the game to make drivers before it comes out) or a computer with the game got hacked into (like happened to Valve).

 

[[]D | |V| []D]

great news indeed if true

my faith is strong

 

[Compman2000]

I simply don't want to get pumped up about HL2 again after E3 and be disappointed this summer. I have no idea whom to believe anymore about when the game is coming out with the swirl of different information from different people leading in all different directions..

Valve should make an exceptional product again with HL2, but their roads to releases have been bumpy as hell.

 

[Edcrab]

Wow, that really was a pointless e-mail. No offence Gabe.

So, as the resident paranoid raver (well, one of thirteen thousand six hundred and eighty three), I shall transcribe the results:

<Q> Are those the only three levels you have?
<Gabe> *nods* The entire game is playable.

Therefore, as stated, we can deduce that there are only three levels and that these make up the entire game.

...seriously, that was a daft thing to ask, and an equally daft answer. Along the lines of "Will Half-Life 2 be a game?" getting "Probably" as a reply.

 

[XenoSpirit]

i hear ya... valve better give us a release date soon or ima be pizzed off "2004" or "the summer" is not good nuff! we need a RELEASE DATE not some pussy play it safe date... if its 100% done then release it

 

[ComradeBadger]

But what if they miss that date?

It's better this way imo

 

[XenoSpirit]

they wont miss the date i dont think whats left of the community will stand ofr a nuther delay

 

[ComradeBadger]

They'll have to, they're hardley not going to buy HL2. Just sit tight

 

[TriggerHappy]

they wont miss the date i dont think whats left of the community will stand ofr a nuther delay

Actually, I think we would. Even if it was pushed to 2006, I would be pissed, but I wouldn't punish myself further by not buying it.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Actually, I think we would. Even if it was pushed to 2006, I would be pissed, but I wouldn't punish myself further by not buying it.

true but if it were pushed back any further it damn well better be muchly improved since the last time we saw it.

I mean in 2006 Unreal 3 would be coming out... or something

 

[Lucifer Crass]

You people are paranoid! One harmless quote from Gabe spawns six pages of HL2 analyses. What are you, doctors of Pc gaming or what? You would think that kind of a reply from Gabe is good news. But no, you're gonna have to pick on every little thing they have said in the past year, and make stupid conclusions like "OMgZ LOL s0 the game has only 3 maps! Th3 lying vavle bastardz!"

I'm gonna laugh my assss out when the game releases this summer and you pessimistic ones are eating my shit! MWHAHA!!

Lemme get back to u when I find someone that cares about what u think. :smoking:

 

[mbrithoms]

well didnt think my question would kick up a 8 page thread, I mainly emailed him because I was annoyed at rumours and little white lies valve are dishing out left right and center, there was a big dispute that on september 30th there were only the 3 levels from e3 playable due to statements from the hacker and actual alleged facts from the leak itself, this was all hear say but when fragmaster stated that the leaker wasnt too far off the truth with his statements, well that speaks for itself and I got suspicious. I emailed and posed that question and got more than I bargained for in an email, so belive gabe or not its a promising answer

 

[XenoSpirit]

actually for me its 3 pages cause im 40/40

 

[Apos]

Well, he didn't say this time that it was completely playable back in sept. Of course, it might have been but then they decided to add and redo stuff.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

http://content.collegehumor.com/media/movies/canada.wmv

Do yourself a favor and Click the link

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Well, he didn't say this time that it was completely playable back in sept. Of course, it might have been but then they decided to add and redo stuff.

he did state however that the game was finished and in playtesting....
now what is his definition of finished if only now the entire game is playable?

 

[Spiffae]

he did state however that the game was finished and in playtesting....
now what is his definition of finished if only now the entire game is playable?

well, at one point the original half-life was entirely playable... and valve decided it wasn't any good and re-did most of the game.

they may have gotten the basic story and map order finally in place, and now they have to make every moment of the game really shine.

 

[Apos]

he did state however that the game was finished and in playtesting....

Actually, they have been doing playtesting non-stop even during development, so that didn't really tell us as much as we thought it did.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

well, at one point the original half-life was entirely playable... and valve decided it wasn't any good and re-did most of the game.

they may have gotten the basic story and map order finally in place, and now they have to make every moment of the game really shine.

yes, but it wasnt finished.....

what I was alluding to is that we cant put much faith into anything that isnt in our hands at this point.

if back in Sept the game was finished and in playtesting and is only now playable, thats a direct contradiction isnt it?

how can you not play a finished game?
then again saying the game is playable does NOT mean the game is finished.

Actually, they have been doing playtesting non-stop even during development, so that didn't really tell us as much as we thought it did.

true due to the way they develope.. however gabe did state the game was done, they even noted all that was left was localization (languages etc)

so again I am confused.

perhaps I got lost in all the marketing strategies being used all up in my hizzy.

 

[blahblahblah]

well, at one point the original half-life was entirely playable... and valve decided it wasn't any good and re-did most of the game.

they may have gotten the basic story and map order finally in place, and now they have to make every moment of the game really shine.

I bet that was the most accurate guess to the real reason HL2 was delayed. GJ.

*gives Pendragon, who said it first, a cookie*

[Edit]: Pendragon, if you are going to change my post, can't you make my post look prettier. :upstare:

 

[RoguePsi]

I believe Gabe when he says its completely playable. It may not be 100% finished but there's enough content there for journalists to get a very good feel for the game. This is pretty much like when you download a demo and its says "only 95% complete" just in case you think its crap.

Judging by the time frame and everything, I reckon the game is almost at gold status with the final testing and tweaking being done. Of course a total delay like that of HL1's could happen but I extremely doubt it as Valve now know what to aim for and their previous experience would also help them here. Like someone said, why work 5yrs on a game only to scrap it just before release?! It's proposterous.

And for those of you demanding a release date from e3, I think thats a bit silly. We all know that from previous experience, these dates mean nothing. I would rather find out the status of the game rather then when it'll be shipped. We wont be having the same problems as CS:CZ after it went gold. That got delayed for 6 months simply because it was absolute shite and needed working on, where as HL2 wont fail to impress if its engine lives up to its hype.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Of course a total delay like that of HL1's could happen but I extremely doubt it as Valve now know what to aim for and their previous experience would also help them here.

it already has happened
Hl1 was delayed an entire year, and we are coming up on Hl2's one year delay pretty quickly now.
SEE WHAT I MEAN?
and thats why I always say we better see something worth the extra year at this E3 :/ not that HL2 isnt impressive, just the fact the game was supposedly done, and its almost a year later leads one to believe how they utilized that time.

 

[dura]

Oh, okay Gabe.

 

[Keeson]

I posted some stuff a week ago in the Rumours and Speculation area, which no one really paid any attention to, it seems relevant to this thread so I will recount some of what I said:


Let me start out by pointing to an article published back on June 13th, 2003:

:burp: Sharky Extreme: Ken Birdwell, Josh Weier HL2 Interview

Now let me pull out a quote by Valve's Ken Birdwell:

SE: So how far done is all of Half-Life 2?

Ken - We've got all the game laid out. We've got about half of it in gameplay testing. Half-Life 2 is designed along a pipeline scheme: we build the maps, we lay out the geometry, the physics elements which are important to the gameplay and then we go thru play testing until we have a whole area of the game that's fun, that runs, that does what we want, plays how we want it. Then it will go on to the finish art team that will lay down all the textures, put the lights in, and put the detailed props in. It's a very time consuming process. To make a game this rich, and a world this natural, we want to make sure first that it's fun and then go through and make it beautiful.​

This quote shows Valve's "pipeline" process for developing levels. Keep in mind that there is a critical path that Valve must adhere to in order not to slip behind schedule. The art guys are held up unable to do their jobs until a level is playable with complete A.I. as well as being fun.

Ken says: "We've got all the game laid out"
Ok, does he mean they have a script by Mark Laidlaw and a bunch of concept art and a series of uncomplete test levels???

And when he says they have "half of it in gameplay testing"
I guess he means very undetailed levels used to test gameplay only and definitely not the more polished levels seen at E3 2003.

Now once you've got a levels gameplay they way you like it, how long to detail it???

The key point Ken makes is: "It's a very time consuming process"
Think about this... once you detail it you will probably test it for performance on different hardware. What if it runs like crap on low end hardware. You will have to revise it!!! Then test it again!!! Rework the brushwork - maybe that affects the gameplay!? Uh oh!! This could take awhile to get everything just right.... and yet he just admitted that on June 13th, 2003, they only had half of the game in a very basic level of completion for a game set to ship on September 30th - a mere 3 months away!!!

Despite what Gabe said about "The entire game is playable" it doesn't mean much because that is only the first step in a "very time consuming process" as outlined by Ken Birdwell.

There is an absolute ton of detailing, scripted elements, texturing, testing, retesting, testing for hardware platform scalability, etc. that has to be done. If you ever made HL1 maps as I have, you can appreciate how time consuming map development can be.

Who knows how long it might take to finish up...

:dork: So please take what Gabe says with a grain of salt!!!

 

[WillH]

Let me start out by pointing to an article published back on June 13th, 2003:

:burp: Sharky Extreme: Ken Birdwell, Josh Weier HL2 Interview

Wait, Umm... I believe that says it all. It was from 2003, which makes your whole arguement pointless. Thank you.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Wait, Umm... I believe that says it all. It was from 2003, which makes your whole arguement pointless. Thank you.

not that I agree with keeson, although I see where he is going with this, however you obviously didnt read his arguement then... it would have been invalid if the interview was recent. :/