The Fallout 3 Thread

[Tyguy]

I would love to contribute to this thread but for some reason I have zero interest in the game. In fact, I would rather read this thread to it's entirety over and over instead of playing FO3. Maybe I have a belittled attention span...

excuse for adderoll, NICE.

 

[CptStern]

wow Mikael you sure do nitpick. there's no real pleasing you short of creating a game that is a carbon copy of the originals even though the gamng market has left that type of gameplay behind for almost 10 years now. you want gaming to return to a time that couldnt exist today and frankly didnt exist back then either (not as you describe it) ..a time where story plot character development mattered because it had to matter because gameplay and graphics were in their infancy and as a result were the least compelling part of many games. Video games are still in the adolescent stage; meaningful plot and character development is a decade or two away. in the meantime you should stick with text based rpgs or take up macrome or competitive backgammon because as the industry is today you will never find satisfaction. Sooner or later you'll either accept where gaming as an industry is or you move on to some other hobby

 

[MJ12]

I will find out how I like this game on Christmas Day.

 

[Shakermaker]

Who let Mikael back in? It's not like he was missed or anything ...

 

[Tagaziel]

now for those questions:

Spoiler

1)Don't know but my guess would be that radiation is quite difficult to remove from water. And the main problem in the story was how to remove it on a large scale since pretty much the world's supply was screwed.

2)No one, they probably organized after escaping that one Vault (112?) to slaughter/eat/conquer as barbarians do.

3)The Enclave are after world domination (evil!) but the main reason is probably cause their involvement resulted in your dad dying. And their control of the Purifier would probably somehow result in their control tightening faster.

4)See 3

5)There's more than one scientist with that hairstyle, and they don't say it was her shot in their

6)Try listening to him. I agree it's a bitch of a reason though.

7)See 3

8)Didn't bother with previous games

9)Magical super duper problem solver!

10)Probably not everything is destroyed...and you'd be surprised at what can be made and salvaged from heaps of crap (Megaton).

11)Many games are

Spoiler

1. It's not. It takes a basic filter to get radiation out of water.
2. The Supermutants are retarded. How exactly are they supposed to be organized? There's nothing in the game that suggests any form of organization, let alone thought beyond "Kill everything I see".
3. And the return of government to the lawless wastes is bad... how? The Ecnlave seeks to rebuild the United States, hell, Autumn even ditched the genocidal plans, instead wanting to activate the Purifier and estabilish the Enclave as a real government. This is good, very good.
4. But Dad doesn't know that. All he sees is a bunch of people in black power armour and a guy that wants him to join the Enclave and turn over control of the Purifier. It doesn't make sense.
5. It's her. The face, name, hairstyle and voice is identical.
6. It doesn't make sense. He's the only person who can go in and survive, yet he prefers to see others die, despite his supposed 'refinement'. It's idiotic, you can't even Speech him.
7. Your explanation still doesn't make sense.
8. Target audience, then.
9. So basically, it shouldn't, I presume?
10. You haven't answered the question: "Why are there working power stations, lightbulbs, air conditioning, vending machines, terminals and other delicate electric/electronic stuff two centuries after the war?"
11. But not Fallout.

Mikael, any given game has as many flaws as you've pointed out for Fallout 3. Yes there are even more problems than you list, but then there's even more game to Fallout 3. There is no one game that is up to the golden standard you seem to measure the game by.

Arcanum, Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, Knights of the Old Republic 2.

No game?

As for plot holes, care to explain how the nineteen fifties has continued for three hundred years (and 100 years pre-apocalypse), and no new popular music has been created in the meantime? Surely this is a far bigger leap of imagination than everything else you point out? (half of which aren't plot holes, but tech / dev time limited or boo-hoo, 'someone tore some pages out of my "choose your own adventure" book' pisswhines). Do you not question this because:

I'm not explaining Fallout 3. The only piece of music licensed for Fallout 1 and 2 were Ink Spots' Maybe and Louis Armstrong's What A Wonderful World, used only in the introductory sequences to set the mood for the game.

Fallout was a retrofuturistic setting based on 1950s pulp science fiction novels and comics, with a realistic twist to it. It was made internally consistent, and also with a large dose of distance, taking ideas from the 1950s, keeping their aesthetic but adapting them to a more realistic world. That's why there's no clear distinction between good or evil (at least in Fallout 1, Fallout 2 was less coherent due to the lead developers' absence) that was present in most 1950s entertainment, the world is an incredibly hostile place and in general, people aren't one dimensional archetypal badasses.

A) It's original Fallout canon and therefore, more sacred than Jesus' arsehole
-or-
B) It's just the setting, in a game, and all in all, you can suspend disbelief so long as it makes things more fun?

I don't question it because I don't have to - everything is explained, internally consistent and I can enjoy total immersion and fun in the world, while Fo3 continuously makes me go "WTF", since it can't even maintain internal consistency or coherency. Hell, take the Megaton for example - how come no one with 25 explosives managed to come into town and disarm the weapon?

And last of all, why on earth would anyone come back to a thread that specifically warns them off, after having being temporarily banned, to throw this kind of flamebait into the ring? Hating Fallout 3 in the land of indifference is damned serious business. Do something the whole community can enjoy, like bashing Halo.

Because I do. I'm not listening to made-up rules, only those set by God Emperor Muan'Ro.

wow Mikael you sure do nitpick.

Pointing out gravely inconsistent story and plot elements isn't nitpicking.

there's no real pleasing you short of creating a game that is a carbon copy of the originals

There is. I listed the features I seek in an RPG repeatedly.

But, two words should suffice: Van Buren. THE Fallout 3.

even though the gamng market has left that type of gameplay behind for almost 10 years now. you want gaming to return to a time that couldnt exist today and frankly didnt exist back then either (not as you describe it)

Gaming market did not. Publishers did, because cheaper, mass-produced fast-gaming brings in more monies in the short term rather than good, well written games.

..a time where story plot character development mattered because it had to matter because gameplay and graphics were in their infancy and as a result were the least compelling part of many games. Video games are still in the adolescent stage; meaningful plot and character development is a decade or two away.

Yes, a decade away IN THE PAST. I don't really grasp your point Stern, though - we shouldn't complain about bad writing because OMGGRAPHIX? Sorry, I'm not lowering my standards.

in the meantime you should stick with text based rpgs or take up macrome or competitive backgammon because as the industry is today you will never find satisfaction. Sooner or later you'll either accept where gaming as an industry is or you move on to some other hobby

I'll move to independent games. Age of Decadence for instance, the only real RPG in development so far.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Spoiler

1. It's not. It takes a basic filter to get radiation out of water.
2. The Supermutants are retarded. How exactly are they supposed to be organized? There's nothing in the game that suggests any form of organization, let alone thought beyond "Kill everything I see".
3. And the return of government to the lawless wastes is bad... how? The Ecnlave seeks to rebuild the United States, hell, Autumn even ditched the genocidal plans, instead wanting to activate the Purifier and estabilish the Enclave as a real government. This is good, very good.
4. But Dad doesn't know that. All he sees is a bunch of people in black power armour and a guy that wants him to join the Enclave and turn over control of the Purifier. It doesn't make sense.
5. It's her. The face, name, hairstyle and voice is identical.
6. It doesn't make sense. He's the only person who can go in and survive, yet he prefers to see others die, despite his supposed 'refinement'. It's idiotic, you can't even Speech him.
7. Your explanation still doesn't make sense.
8. Target audience, then.
9. So basically, it shouldn't, I presume?
10. You haven't answered the question: "Why are there working power stations, lightbulbs, air conditioning, vending machines, terminals and other delicate electric/electronic stuff two centuries after the war?"
11. But not Fallout.

Spoiler

1)Excuse me for still not believing you, that line you said earlier didn't include radiation. And still doesn't change the scale of things. (Details on PPurity aren't given so I can't comment how it would do any better than some giant distillator).

2)And barbarians are smart? It doesn't take anything smarter than a pack of wolves to know how to hunt.

3)Just reading from Wiki on the Enclaves' past involvement in FO, I sure as hell wouldn't want them in charge even in the aftermath of nuclear war.

4)For all we know he knows about their history.

5)IIRC She doesn't say anything or turn around, but if its so important to you, lets just say its her twin.

6)Indeed

7)Well they sure as hell want you dead.

9)I don't see any particular grievance with some super technology.

10)People replaced them? Not every single thing was working (as for coke I assumed you just took it out of the broken thing). Who knows what really would work after 200 years of isolation? Take your pick, not that important.

11) Well FO3 is.

 

[CptStern]

Pointing out gravely inconsistent story and plot elements isn't nitpicking.

some of the points you made are lost on 98% of the players and wouldnt make a difference even if implemented as you suggest ..other suggestions border on the unfeasible

There is. I listed the features I seek in an RPG repeatedly.

But, two words should suffice: Van Buren. THE Fallout 3.

you mean the game that was cancelled in 2003? the isometric pov game that would have sold 1/10th the number of copies of fallout 3. the game that because it was never released you have no way of judging quality on? you seem to forget that the games industry is a business industry, it's not charity it's not art it's not in any way shape or form anything except what it is: a commodity, a means of making money ..if the gaming industry is to be compared to the movie industry we've never made it past saturday morning cartoons ..and the good kind either ..the cheap thrills, flash in the pan saturday morning cartoons like transformers or pokemon ..you're asking for Citizen Kane when the industry is only capable of creating Independence Day or Armageddon

Gaming market did not. Publishers did, because cheaper, mass-produced fast-gaming brings in more monies in the short term rather than good, well written games.

I lol at "well written games" there is no such thing ..not in comparison to any other media out there ...I've seen better writing on the back of cereal boxes ..and that goes for games past and present

Yes, a decade away IN THE PAST.

nope, you're not paying attention, see above, we're still a decade or two away from Citizen Kane

I don't really grasp your point Stern, though - we shouldn't complain about bad writing because OMGGRAPHIX? Sorry, I'm not lowering my standards.

asking games to have good writing is like asking Michael Bay to spend more time on character development ..it's not needed; it's michael bay, he makes 'splosions look real pretty ...in other words, we make do with what we have ....until the gaming industry creates a Howard Hawks or a Stanley Kubrick or a Orson wellls we'll have to make do with Michael Bay

I'll move to independent games. Age of Decadence for instance, the only real RPG in development so far.

as as time passes there'll be even less "true" rpgs on the market because people like you are a dying breed ...so accept where gaming is heading or sign up for macrome classes

 

[Tarkus]

Well.. there goes the thread.

Inb4lock

 

[KagePrototype]

Maybe my standards are too high, maybe I shouldn't be comparing next-generation 2008 games to the golden classics of 1997, but I'd apprecaite greatly if anyone could explain to me the above, in a plausible way that doesn't make Occam's Razor shatter into a thousand pieces.

Pointing out gravely inconsistent story and plot elements isn't nitpicking.

It might not be to you, but it is to other people. You need to respect that and stop treating people who value certain things over others as somehow "inferior" to you. If you can't post without needing to validate your own sense of superiority, then you're gone.

Same thing goes for you Stern; drop the confrontational attitude, because you're just making things worse.

And for the love of christ Pes, **** off.

 

[Eejit]

http://www.ehow.com/how_4504997_survive-nuclear-explosion-fallout.html

You fail at spotting Grammar and Syntax Nazism.

 

[Tagaziel]

Spoiler

1)Excuse me for still not believing you, that line you said earlier didn't include radiation. And still doesn't change the scale of things. (Details on PPurity aren't given so I can't comment how it would do any better than some giant distillator).

2)And barbarians are smart? It doesn't take anything smarter than a pack of wolves to know how to hunt.

3)Just reading from Wiki on the Enclaves' past involvement in FO, I sure as hell wouldn't want them in charge even in the aftermath of nuclear war.

4)For all we know he knows about their history.

5)IIRC She doesn't say anything or turn around, but if its so important to you, lets just say its her twin.

6)Indeed

7)Well they sure as hell want you dead.

9)I don't see any particular grievance with some super technology.

10)People replaced them? Not every single thing was working (as for coke I assumed you just took it out of the broken thing). Who knows what really would work after 200 years of isolation? Take your pick, not that important.

11) Well FO3 is.

Spoiler

1. http://www.parowanprophet.com/Nuclear_War_Comes/water_filter_instructions.htm

Cheap, efficent and definitely not needing a shitload of weird industrial machines and what not.

2. But they aren't barbarians, they are retarded. Yet it seems someone makes armour for them, maintains weapons, issues orders and generally keeps control, yet every single supermutant you find is mentally disabled. Somehow they've managed to infest half of Capital Wasteland, yet are barely able to cobble together sentences.

3. How do the wastelanders know about that? From their perspective, the Enclave is no different from any other faction in the wasteland, except for having Vertibirds and better technology. Couple that with broadcasts all over the CW and you have saviours, not destroyers. Especially with Autumn in charge.

4. We, the players. Not the wastelanders.

5. Nope, it's Anna Holt. Half-arsed explanations aren't fixing plotholes, they only make them more glaring.

7. Which is another illogical thing. You'd think that the only person knowing PP access codes would be tracked down and captured rather than shot at by every Enclave trooper and their mothers. They're arbitrarily set as the bad guys for no reason at all.

9. Super technology which was stated in the manual to Fallout 1, entire Fallout 2, Fallout Bible and Fo devs to (cue Morbo) NOT WORK THAT WAY.

10. Why would people replace lightbulbs in feral ghoul-infested subways, abandoned power station across the wastes? Why would Nuka-Cola dispensers still work after 200 years? Do note that they still flicker and hum after two centuries, even those outside. It doesn't make sense. Most power transformers, power lines and bulbs would burn out in the first 50 years without maintenance.

11. Which is not Fallout at all...

some of the points you made are lost on 98% of the players and wouldnt make a difference even if implemented as you suggest ..other suggestions border on the unfeasible

99% of statistics are made up on the spot. You don't know that, and I bet my head that fixing those points would make up for a far more enjoyable game, if you actually know what the hell you're doing and why.

And which are unfeasible? Good writing? Coherent gameworld? Engaging story? All I ask for is something that was accomplished 11 years ago with "inferior" technology, as some Torrs (like Pete Hines or Torr Hubbard) say.

you mean the game that was cancelled in 2003? the isometric pov game that would have sold 1/10th the number of copies of fallout 3.

Yes, that game.

Ask yourself, how many gamers bought Fo3 based on the hype and marketing and how many basing on it's merits? If Van Buren was hyped as much as Fo3, it'd be a bestseller too.

the game that because it was never released you have no way of judging quality on?

I can, because enough material was released for me to make an accurate statement. It was in 70% finished as well.

you seem to forget that the games industry is a business industry, it's not charity it's not art it's not in any way shape or form anything except what it is: a commodity, a means of making money

EVERYTHING is means of making money, I know. That doesn't mean stupid decision aren't made - Van Buren's cancellation was the final nail in Interplay's coffin, as it was the only game that had a chance of generating enough income to prolong Interplay's existence.

..if the gaming industry is to be compared to the movie industry we've never made it past saturday morning cartoons ..and the good kind either ..the cheap thrills, flash in the pan saturday morning cartoons like transformers or pokemon ..you're asking for Citizen Kane when the industry is only capable of creating Independence Day or Armageddon

Citizen Kane was already made. It's called Planescape: Torment.

Are titles like Homeworld, Arcanum, Fallout, Planescape: Torment, KOTOR2 really Saturday morning cartoons to you? Games with actual depth?

I lol at "well written games" there is no such thing ..not in comparison to any other media out there ...I've seen better writing on the back of cereal boxes ..and that goes for games past and present

Then you've been playing the wrong games. I also lol at you comparing games to non-interactive media. It's not that it's funny, it's just illogical.

nope, you're not paying attention, see above, we're still a decade or two away from Citizen Kane

I say, we already have CK, except you missed it/haven't played it.

asking games to have good writing is like asking Michael Bay to spend more time on character development ..it's not needed; it's michael bay, he makes 'splosions look real pretty ...in other words, we make do with what we have ....until the gaming industry creates a Howard Hawks or a Stanley Kubrick or a Orson wellls we'll have to make do with Michael Bay

Which is a broad and stupid statement, that, frankly, I'm surprised you're making. Good writing is already present in games, well, the old ones at least.

as as time passes there'll be even less "true" rpgs on the market because people like you are a dying breed ...so accept where gaming is heading or sign up for macrome classes

Hardly a dying breed, if we haven't fallen for the past, oh, eleven years. We're not going anywhere, and once the current generation of gamers grows bored of their cheap, flashy fast-gaming, we'll still be here.

It might not be to you, but it is to other people. You need to respect that and stop treating people who value certain things over others as somehow "inferior" to you. If you can't post without needing to validate your own sense of superiority, then you're gone.

For the past two years, everyone failed to respect my views. Why should I respect theirs? Because there are more of them?

 

[Asknoone]

Enough, I think.