The mistake in traptown movie(the answer)

[Kyle2]

Yeah, I noticed the other traptown thread was closed so this is probably a mistake posting this but I do have an answer for his question. The reason they're not attached is for playability issues. They do this all the time in current maps in HL1. Apparently not connecting pillars to the top of a roof will improve the r_speeds a little bit. If you're a mapper you would know this. It wouldn't surprise me if they did it in HL2 also, a lot more so because it's already gonna be a hard enough game to play at fast speeds as it is.

 

[OCybrManO]

If the spinning object is a model then there will be no difference in the r_speeds whether the map brushes are actually touching it or not... but we don't know how they made it... so we shouldn't assume.

 

[Chris D]

The previous thread was closed for a reason. I reckon it'll be a model. Gabe said recently that even things like the pipes and railings are models rather than map geometry. It means they can have better quality level geometry and better quality details like the pipes and that propellor thing.

 

[commando]

here is a pic of it for those who aint seen what we are all talking about go to the link below to see it.....

http://g.yi.org/_scripts/file.php?f=7600&r=46

 

[commando]

dam i tested it and i don't think u lot will be able to see it....hmm.

i am using this site for uploads cause the DOD upload site don't work now!?

anyone know some good upload sites i can use?

 

[Gunner]

"Òò±¾Õ¾´ø¿íËùÏÞ, ¼´ÈÕÆðÍ£Ö¹Ö±½ÓÍⲿÁ´½ÓÏÂÔØÎļþ·þÎñ, ËùÓÐÎļþÏÂÔرØÐëÏȽøÈë±¾Õ¾Ê×Ò³, ÈçÒò´Ë¶ÔÄúÔì³É²»±ã, Éî±íǸÒâ!"

Heh?...

 

[Axyon]

Okay, thanks for the answer, but the original thread was a little useless in the first place anyway.

 

[TheOriginalEvil]

I can't get the link to work.

 

[SheepFactory]

Due to the amazing physics engine shouldnt the blades fall to the ground, and not be suspended in mid air by absolutly nothing at all? Hmmmmm......

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Due to the amazing physics engine shouldnt the blades fall to the ground, and not be suspended in mid air by absolutly nothing at all? Hmmmmm......

An object is defined whether or not it is affected by physics or not. It will be the same in all games.

 

[SLH]

I'm guessing the blades are supported and are rigid, so they'd remain upright. If they were flexable, then i doubt they'd cut a zombie clean in-half.

 

[SheepFactory]

An object is defined whether or not it is affected by physics or not. It will be the same in all games.

So the world is not completly physics simulated as ive been told?

 

[SLH]

Not everything is physically simulated, because that'd be too CPU intencive, but most things are. e.g. barrels, crates.... but not walls & such.

 

[commando]

yea soz the link don't work when u click on it soz.

Anyone know a GOOD UPLOADER SITE i can use plz?

 

[SheepFactory]

The more i hear about the phsyics system, the more it sounds like the systems found in every other upcoming game. Why are you guys so hyped about this physics system, which valve didnt even develope BTW? Other games such as Stalker and Doom3 wont be any less advanced as far as physics goes.

And in hl2 physics look so gimmicky. Esp in traptown, the whole map looks and feels like a physics toy that you might find on the havok site.

 

[commando]

dude...


THE REAL WORLD IS A PHSICS TOY! don't u get it!?

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
The more i hear about the phsyics system, the more it sounds like the systems found in every other upcoming game. Why are you guys so hyped about this physics system, which valve didnt even develope BTW? Other games such as Stalker and Doom3 wont be any less advanced as far as physics goes.

And in hl2 physics look so gimmicky. Esp in traptown, the whole map looks and feels like a physics toy that you might find on the havok site.

Valve are trying to integrate Physics in the game play. Maybe Stalker and Doom3 will have good physics, maybe not. It doesn't matter whether other games have it.

Yes, Half Life 2 uses the Havok Physics, but it isn't who made it that's important. It's how the Developer uses the physics.

 

[SheepFactory]

THE REAL WORLD IS A PHSICS TOY! don't u get it!?

ROFL, no. In the real world you dont find empty dumpsters on the rooftops of buildings elevated off the ground so that you could toss a nade under it, propelling it over the roof and onto enemies walking about doing mischief. You dont find iron beams suspended on wooden scafolds in an area whre there is no apparent reason for their to be one, strangly suspended from a rope, and the legth of the rope is just long enough so that when you destroy the wooden scafolds the beam will swing around killing all the baddies.

What i described is a physics toy. Its not realistic in the least bit.

 

[SheepFactory]

Valve are trying to integrate Physics in the game play.

There is a decision to be made weather you want to make a great game or a physics demo.

A physics demo can be fun for a while, but it is not what i would consider a great game.


I only hope there is enough real gameplay, and that it is fun enough to make up for all the gimmicky feeling physics toys in the game.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
There is a decision to be made weather you want to make a great game or a physics demo.

A physics demo can be fun for a while, but it is not what i would consider a great game.

Well that's nice because Half Life 2 isn't just a Physic Demo.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
ROFL, no. In the real world you dont find empty dumpsters on the rooftops of buildings elevated off the ground so that you could toss a nade under it, propelling it over the roof and onto enemies walking about doing mischief. You dont find iron beams suspended on wooden scafolds in an area whre there is no apparent reason for their to be one, strangly suspended from a rope, and the legth of the rope is just long enough so that when you destroy the wooden scafolds the beam will swing around killing all the baddies.

What i described is a physics toy. Its not realistic in the least bit.

You do know that those were Traps set up on Purpose. They were explained, they weren't just convenient things that were randomly there.

The damn video is even called TRAPtown.

 

[SheepFactory]

Well that's nice because Half Life 2 isn't just a Physic Demo.

Well, we will have to wait and see just what hl2 is wont we.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Well, we will have to wait and see just what hl2 is wont we.

Aye we shall.

Or we could watch the other videos and decide that the game looks pretty nice in the Videos.

 

[SheepFactory]

You do know that those were Traps set up on Purpose. They were explained, they weren't just convenient things that were randomly there.

Yea ok, some preist is going around town, in the bad guys territory, setting up huge and obvious traps for you to use.

Thats a really lame and lazy excuse to put in physics toys. Valve obviously just decided to throw it in because it would impress anxious fans. gimmick.

 

[SheepFactory]

Or we could watch the other videos and decide that the game looks pretty nice in the Videos.

Looks average to me. Nothing exciting. Valve did a great job of making everyone belive the AI will be amazingly revolutionary considering 90% of the videos the bad guys just stand around and dont really look like intelligent beings at all. the antlions showed more intelligence just chasing down the pherimones.

"oh, but the Ai was toned down. Valve said so"

As i said, theydid a good job.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Yea ok, some preist is going around town, in the bad guys territory, setting up huge and obvious traps for you to use.

Thats a really lame and lazy excuse to put in physics toys. Valve obviously just decided to throw it in because it would impress anxious fans. gimmick.

You could say that about anything in any game in the world. It's not very constructive, really is it?

You don't know the story of Father Gregori so it may be better to wait until you start critisising it.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Looks average to me. Nothing exciting. Valve did a great job of making everyone belive the AI will be amazingly revolutionary considering 90% of the videos the bad guys just stand around and dont really look like intelligent beings at all. the antlions showed more intelligence just chasing down the pherimones.

"oh, but the Ai was toned down. Valve said so"

As i said, theydid a good job.

Well, considering that Valve did a pretty good job of the AI in Half Life.

And did you not look at your allie's AI in the Barricade Video, That was rather impressive.

Maybe you'd be more impressed if it looked like plastic?

 

[SheepFactory]

You could say that about anything in any game in the world.

No, usually game developers go through a bit more trouble in thinking up creative ways of explaining aspects of the game. You know, with a realistic, logical, and entertaining backstory.

They just wanted to stick some physics toys i nthere to show off someone elses physics engine, so they invented gregori in a half-assed attempt at explaining why the maps are physics toys.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
No, usually game developers go through a bit more trouble in thinking up creative ways of explaining aspects of the game. You know, with a realistic, logical, and entertaining backstory.

They just wanted to stick some physics toys i nthere to show off someone elses physics engine, so they invented gregori in a half-assed attempt at explaining why the maps are physics toys.

You don't know that. Can we wait until you've heard the story before you start complaining that it's tacked on?

Maybe they should go the id approach.

"We need a story!"
"Okay, how about Scientists testing a portal and some evil things come through it?"
"Good idea, we've only done that 7 times before".

EDIT: Extra sarcasm because I'm in a sarcastic mood.

 

[SheepFactory]

considering that Valve did a pretty good job of the AI in Half Life.

I believe that the AI in hl2 will be decent. Nothing revolutionary or overly eciting, however.

And did you not look at your allie's AI in the Barricade Video, That was rather impressive.

Yea, they followed you. gj_allies. Oh, they walked slowly too. gj.

I also liked how they couldnt figure out if they should shoot at the combine that was emptying their guns into them. I also like how gordon didnt feel the bullets of the mantee craft, or even notice it was shooting him until it was right on top of him.

 

[SheepFactory]

Why do oyu keep trying to attack Id? We are talking about hl2. Does Ids games need to suck in order for hl2 to be good?

They are telling the same story the did with the first doom, its a remake. Thats why its similar. They simply want to go in depth and make it more of an engrossing and immersive story, thats why they are developpng it more.

And the game only looks plastic in the alpha and only on systems that arent up to snuff.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
I believe that the AI in hl2 will be decent. Nothing revolutionary or overly eciting, however.



Yea, they followed you. gj_allies. Oh, they walked slowly too. gj.

I also liked how they couldnt figure out if they should shoot at the combine that was emptying their guns into them. I also like how gordon didnt feel the bullets of the mantee craft, or even notice it was shooting him until it was right on top of him.

I had to watch the video again before I could answer this:

Gordon doesn't get shot by the Gunship.

Unless you meant Barney, in which case you are complaning that he didn't notice something that was behind him and didn't start shooting at it until it was close. Also, the Gunship didn't fire a thing at Barney.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Why do oyu keep trying to attack Id? We are talking about hl2. Does Ids games need to suck in order for hl2 to be good?

They are telling the same story the did with the first doom, its a remake. Thats why its similar. They simply want to go in depth and make it more of an engrossing and immersive story, thats why they are developpng it more.

And the game only looks plastic in the alpha and only on systems that arent up to snuff.

Was Quake a remake of Doom as well?

I'm being as unreasonable as you in my arguments when I mention id, as a kind of satire thing. As I know you like Doom3.

Also, Half Life 2 wasn't finished in the videos, any arguments you have about it will be fixed for the final version.

 

[Kyle2]

I regret ever answering the traptown question

 

[SheepFactory]

Unless you meant Barney

Yea, i meant barney, my bad. Did you think i was commenting on gordons AI? ;o

in which case you are complaning that he didn't notice something that was behind him and didn't start shooting at it until it was close.

I went and watched it again too.

Yea it was behind him, and it was shooting at him, and he didnt turn to it until it was right on top of him. Its noisy and shooting him, he should notice it even if it is behind him, dont you think?

I also like how he didnt think of taking cover, but just stood there looking up returning fire.

I also like how your allies didnt fire at the combine, even though they were in plain veiw and were shooting at them. Instead your allies made their way another 15 feet or so into the open, under no cover at all, wlaking until they are head on with the combine, and only then returning fire.

And the physics on the body falling is painfully unrealistic.

Also, the Gunship didn't fire a thing at Barney.

yea, it did. We are both talking about the sam ehting right? The mantee looking thing with flippers and all?

I'm being........unreasonable........when I mention id....I....like Doom3

Ok, that sounds better.

Also, Half Life 2 wasn't finished in the videos, any arguments you have about it will be fixed for the final version.

Bold and unfounded assumptions based soley on wishfull thinking.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Bold and unfounded assumptions based soley on wishfull thinking.

You said the exact same thing about the Doom3 Alpha.

 

[SheepFactory]

You said the exact same thing about the Doom3 Alpha.

Hows that? What i said earlier? The only time you get that plasticy look is on certaint hardware combinations with the alpha, hardware it wasnt optimized to run on. Its not unfounded. Its simple fact. You can easily tell that by comparing screenshots and the systems they were taken on.

What you said, however, is that everything i thought was wrong with the game will be fixed. this is unfounded, there is no evidence at all to suggest that. your just assuming that they will because you think hl2 will be perfect, and how can it be perfect with these obvious errors.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Hows that? What i said earlier? The only time you get that plasticy look is on certaint hardware combinations with the alpha, hardware it wasnt optimized to run on. Its not unfounded. Its simple fact. You can easily tell that by comparing screenshots and the systems they were taken on.

What you said, however, is that everything i thought was wrong with the game will be fixed. this is unfounded, there is no evidence at all to suggest that. your just assuming that they will because you think hl2 will be perfect, and how can it be perfect with these obvious errors.

The "Obvious errors" are just tiny nitpicks that may not have any relevence to the final game.

And I'm not going to post any more in this thread. This isn't because I've lost, it's because I know I can't convince you to change your mind and I'm going to bed.

 

[SheepFactory]

No, i cant be convinced to give up reason and my unbaised veiw in favor of fanboism and blind faith, giving in to the common dellusions that hl2 is godlike and flawless, and that source is the future of games.

Its been fun however. Goodnight.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Originally posted by SheepFactory
Yea it was behind him, and it was shooting at him, and he didnt turn to it until it was right on top of him. Its noisy and shooting him, he should notice it even if it is behind him, dont you think?

I also like how he didnt think of taking cover, but just stood there looking up returning fire.

It was pretty clear that he was running away from it, then turned around once he got to the relative safety of the barricade.

Bold and unfounded assumptions based soley on wishfull thinking.

it's "Bold and unfounded" to believe that they wouldn't fix obvious problems over the course of a full year, especially with the large amount of feedback that the videos have provoked.

It's not as though the problems you mention haven't been pointed out months in advance.