The reason behind 911?

[Calanen]

911 wouldn't of occured if the airport security did their job, remember that, neither would it of happened if Bush didn't ignore the threat. To be personally honest it was either a fluke or someone wanted it to happen (and I'm not just talking about the terrorists neither)

Boxcutter knives - even swiss army knives were seen as no big deal back then. It was not a fluke - they studied flaws in airport security, and I am sure did some tests - and got away with it. It was a well planned operation that went for years. They will not use that method again (unless they steal a plane without passengers) and will look for other ways to cause the most amount of deaths.

Most likely dirty bombs or nuclear devices will be used in some important area next I am assuming. Al Quada has been smashed though now, so its a lot harder for it launch operations with so many of its leaders dead, captured or on the run. Still would like to see them get Bin Laden though.

 

[firemachine69]

'The terrorists'. It makes you wonder if people think there's some kindof worldwide club terrorists are in, and they have their annual terrorist meeting every year with biscuit rings and coke in plastic cups to decide which country to bomb the **** outof next.

Terrorists are people, just like everyone else. If you want to know why people do stuff, how they feel - look at the cause, not the effect.

So since I didn't like your post, I'm allowed to kill you, right? Because that's more or less what you've agreed to...

Point proven, cause v.s. effect is a completely inexcusable excuse. Just cause there's a reason to dislike someone, does not give them permission to terrorize and hurt people. No one owns that right.

owned

Who's next in line? :sniper:

 

[Korgoth]

So since I didn't like your post, I'm allowed to kill you, right? Because that's more or less what you've agreed to...

Point proven, cause v.s. effect is a completely inexcusable excuse. Just cause there's a reason to dislike someone, does not give them permission to terrorize and hurt people. No one owns that right.

owned

Who's next in line? :sniper:

So you are saying that cause Saddam was an evil dictator, we have no reason to bomb iraq and terrorize the innocent people there?

You know, just because there is a reason to dislike someone doesn't give you persmission to terrorize and hurt people.... oooh

 

[CptStern]

So since I didn't like your post, I'm allowed to kill you, right? Because that's more or less what you've agreed to...

Point proven, cause v.s. effect is a completely inexcusable excuse. Just cause there's a reason to dislike someone, does not give them permission to terrorize and hurt people. No one owns that right.

owned

Who's next in line? :sniper:

owned? you "owned" him? hardly ...actually I think it would have been better had you not commented, cuz judging from your response you didnt grasp his meaning.

 

[firemachine69]

I'm sorry, I usually only answer to those who aren't so blinded by sheer stupidity. You make it sound like they went there to kill civilians. I think even the Capt can agree with me. Those are your brothers, friends, family over there. You're calling them blood-thirsty murderers. You f*cking disgust me.

Those that are fighting against the democracy deserve to be shot.

There's a difference between a civilian who's looking for peace, trying to lead a normal life, and one trying to help create a dictatorship (again) by brandishing a loaded gun.

 

[CptStern]

who the hell are you talking to?

 

[Korgoth]

I'm sorry, I usually only answer to those who aren't so blinded by sheer stupidity. You make it sound like they went there to kill civilians. I think even the Capt can agree with me. Those are your brothers, friends, family over there. You're calling them blood-thirsty murderers. You f*cking disgust me.

Those that are fighting against the democracy deserve to be shot.

There's a difference between a civilian who's looking for peace, trying to lead a normal life, and one trying to help create a dictatorship (again) by brandishing a loaded gun.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Please if you would be so kind as to bold the part of my post where I called anyone a blood thirsty murderer... I swear to God, you people twist words so quaintly to fit your recycled rhetoric its comical to watch you explode with your patriotic orgasm. Get a f.ucking clue.

 

[firemachine69]

who the hell are you talking to?

Inner.

Nice double standard there Inner. :upstare:
You're ok with terrorists killing people to get their way, inciting fear, but you cry "bloody murder" when someone goes and does something about it, nice.

 

[Korgoth]

What in the bloody hell are you talking about!!!!!!!

 

[firemachine69]

Inner:

Plase clarify your stance, cause it's about as transparent as a steel door, I pray I'm mis-interpreting it.

 

[Korgoth]

You're the one with the double standard dipshit, you say its not ok to attack someone just because you don't like them... Unless of course its us doing the attacking. I called you on that, now you have reverted back to the classic "omgz your teh fuzking terrorist supportorz" thats all you've got, thats f.ucking weak!

 

[Korgoth]

You want to know what my stance is?

You're all mad.

 

[Bodacious]

Please if you would be so kind as to bold the part of my post where I called anyone a blood thirsty murderer..

Not a bloodthirsty murderer per se, but:

What innervision said:

...we have no reason to bomb iraq and terrorize the innocent people there?

What firemachine said:

You make it sound like they went there to kill civilians.

 

[Korgoth]

You don't think our "shock and awe" campaigne scared a few people over there?
If you think I believe we kill innocent people on purpose then you're deathly mistaken... Do innocent people die, yes they do. I have much more respect for our troops than you will ever know, for personal reasons... So I really wish you wouldn't go down this f.ucking patriotic cock swinging contest with me.

 

[Bodacious]

You don't think our "shock and awe" campaigne scared a few people over there?

Shock and awe never happened. That was a misinformation tactic. Sure they were scared, that was the point.

 

[Korgoth]

Well i'll be, are you on about a conspiracy theory my dear boy?

 

[firemachine69]

Thanks Bodacious.

Anyways, we went there to PROTECT those civilians! To give them the freedom we get to enjoy each and ever day! Man, some people just take stuff for granted some times.

Tell the retards following the dictators to stop shooting. They'd have their peace if they'd stop ambushing the american troops. You realize, 99% of them are so blinded by hate, they simply refuse to see any good the US has done?

Anyways, I hope all our countries conglomerate together and we help the civilans with hte necessities they require.

 

[CptStern]

Shock and awe never happened.

I bet there's 7000 + dead iraqis that would disagree with you

 

[Bodacious]

Well i'll be, are you on about a conspiracy theory my dear boy?

Umm, no. No conspiracy theory about it, I was on the ground when the ware started. There was no carpet bombing of baghdad as Shock and Awe was said to be. All there was were a few perceision missiles and the rest was ground fighting with air support.

 

[CptStern]

precision bombing and still 7000+ casualties ..well I guess they were more careful this time around than they were 14 years ago

 

[firemachine69]

I'd like to see a body count, not a "I think there's xxx bodies" from anyone.

 

[CptStern]

:upstare: stay out of this ..we've discussed this thousands of times ..do the research yourself ..everybody here is well aware of the figures. And yes they are actual counts oof bodies ...not my "guess"

 

[Bodacious]

Look - what shock and awe was said to be:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/24/eveningnews/main537928.shtml

I can tell you from personal experience that never happened. That many missiles never flew

Furthermore:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_Awe#U.S.-Iraq_War

"During the war, Harlan K. Ullman, principal author of Shock and Awe, said the United States' did not execute a Shock and Awe campaign.[14]"

"In contrast, in an October 2003 presentation to the United States House Committee on Armed Services, staff of the United States Army War College did not attribute their performance to Rapid Dominance. Rather, they cited technological superiority and "Iraqi ineptitude."[17] The speed of the Coalition's actions ("rapidity"), they said, did not affect Iraqi morale. Further, they said that Iraqi armed forces ceased resistance only after direct force-on-force combat within cities."

 

[Bodacious]

precision bombing and still 7000+ casualties ..well I guess they were more careful this time around than they were 14 years ago

1. You are aware casualties does not always = deaths, right?

2. Not every single one of those people died to "percision" bombs.

 

[CptStern]

1. yes I realise that but in this instance it's deaths

2. immaterial ..they're dead because of the invasion ..whether it was an errant bomb or a precisely guided missle they're still dead

 

[Bodacious]

1. yes I realise that but in this instance it's deaths

2. immaterial ..they're dead because of the invasion ..whether it was an errant bomb or a precisely guided missle they're still dead

This discussion is about shock and awe, not how many people died.

 

[CptStern]

no it's not ...the topic is why 9/11 happened

 

[KoreBolteR]

9/11 happened because they are jealous of america. simple as.

they want to prove the world wrong that the US are the most powerful.

"osama: we want people to know.. that there is no such thing as a Superpower". -basically saying that they are willing to kill innocent children and women by doing so.

 

[CptStern]

how long have you been here? ...and you still think it was because of "jealousy"? :upstare:


this is what I dislike about the politics forum ...too much opinion not enough fact

 

[Kebean PFC]

this is what I dislike about the politics forum ...too much opinion not enough fact

You should be the one to talk right? All your facts... its all propagandist BS there is not one person in here besides someone that was there that could give us true facts. You can quote all the websites and news article you want, but the "fact" remains that all it is is the authors interpretation and your interpretations which are infused with opinion. So don't lecture me on fact Cpt. Full of It.

EDIT: I am sorry Cpt, i let my emotions interfere with my writing... sorry .

 

[kirovman]

they are jealous of america. simple as.

How so?

So it couldn't be American foreign policy could it?

Sorry, your statement is a bit nieve like saying "People commit murder because they want to be in the newspaper", it has no depth or understanding of the long term situation and historical problems.

 

[ALEXDJ]

"I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom."

"Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes."

-English transcript of Usama bin Ladin's speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera

and then he goes on to list the reasons

i'm not saying he is right, i'm just pointing out what the man, who started it all, had to say about it all

PS
thanks to Calanen for the source

 

[ALEXDJ]

How so?

So it couldn't be American foreign policy could it?

Sorry, your statement is a bit nieve like saying "People commit murder because they want to be in the newspaper", it has no depth or understanding of the long term situation and historical problems.

don't listen to that guy, he doesn't know what he is talking about

 

[Scoobnfl]

why would you hate freedom. Thats a stupid concept

if you believed in a religion that believes in death to all who are not of that religion, and where entry into heaven can be gained by shoving a bomb up yer arse and blowing up people in a restaurant, bus, wedding reception, school, or by flying planes into office buildings, etc...........

if you can believe in that, then hating freedom doesn't seem so stupid a concept

 

[kirovman]

if you believed in a religion that believes in death to all who are not of that religion, and where entry into heaven can be gained by shoving a bomb up yer arse and blowing up people in a restaurant, bus, wedding reception, school, or by flying planes into office buildings, etc...........

if you can believe in that, then hating freedom doesn't seem so stupid a concept

But that's not what Islam is about. Most muslims are peaceful people, just the extremists twist it to use it as an excuse to kill others.

You know, like some Christians have before - in the Crusades (equivilant of Jihad), the KKK.

Oh by the way
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity

A relatively new tenet gaining popularity among Christian Identity believers justifies the use of violence if it is perpetrated in order to punish violators of God's law, as found in the Bible and interpreted by Christian Identity ministers and adherents. This includes killing interracial couples, abortionists, prostitutes and homosexuals, burning pornography stores, and robbing banks and perpetrating frauds to undermine the "usury system."; Christian Identity adherents engaging in such behavior are referred to as Phineas Priests or members of the Phineas Priesthood. This is an appealing concept to some Christian Identity's members who believe they are being persecuted by the Jewish-controlled US government and society and/or are eagerly preparing for Armageddon.

It's the same as Islamic fundamentalists. Truth is most people are not criminals, from any religion, but you get the occasional people who will twist the religion to suit their own personal gains.

 

[Calanen]

A relatively new tenet gaining popularity among Christian Identity believers justifies the use of violence if it is perpetrated in order to punish violators of God's law, as found in the Bible and interpreted by Christian Identity ministers and adherents.

I'd hazard a guess that the 'Christian Identity' movement has a lot less followers than Islamic fundamentalism which calls for violent solutions. Don't have figures handy, but I think its fairly likely. Christian Identity also does not have state sponsorship like Islamic terrorism does.

 

[baxter]

Good link Kirovman, very informative, very frightening.

 

[baron insig]

America thought they were invulnerable, the terrosists taught them a lesson, the americans got scared.

 

[kirovman]

I'd hazard a guess that the 'Christian Identity' movement has a lot less followers than Islamic fundamentalism which calls for violent solutions. Don't have figures handy, but I think its fairly likely. Christian Identity also does not have state sponsorship like Islamic terrorism does.

I am mearly pointing out that the religion of Islam has generally peaceful followers, contrary to some people's beliefs that it is a religion of hatred and killing, and every religion can have violent followers. Maybe the figures are higher in absolute terms, but how about proportion wise? Islam is the world's biggest religion. Are they all evil terrorists who advocate killing? So if all Muslims are evil, why was Iraq not just nuked?
Most Muslims you meet will be ordinary people, they've never thought about picking up a gun and going about killing.
Same like most other people of the world.

You just have to get some idiots who claim to associate themselves with your group to get a bad reputation.

Just because Islamic terrorists are state sponsored does not make the entire religion of Islam evil.

A lot of people may argue George W. Bush is a Right Christian and is waging his Christian war (note his use of the words "This is a crusade") in the middle east. You may laugh, but it's not so ridiculous.

Anyway, none of the major religions are evil, it's just some twisted 'followers' making their religion to suit their own agenda.

 

[Mith']

The media don't show muslims eating dinner with their families, they only show the small amount of them who kill and blow themself up! Religion is what you make it to be! Christianity isn't innocent, and is probably the most violent religion ever! And still it is the biggest! The nazis said they had God on their side, look at North Ireland, it's christians against christians! Most of the horrible things that happened in the middle ages was in the name of God.
Islam is just as peaceful as Christianity, but it's placed in a region with a lot of troubles....