Trouble in Terrorist Town

[Vegeta897]

There was such an incredible last second traitor win on canyon yesterday.

One traitor left, and one innocent left, Glenn. Glenn was hiding in the room with all the crates, and the traitor was looking for him. Minutes went by with him unable to find Glenn (didn't know how to buy a radar) and then finally he was on the right track... Slowly moving through the crates room, I was shouting at him from spectate mode "GO GO GO, FORWARD" and then at the very last second, he spotted Glenn and opened fire, taking Glenn out with like 2 seconds to spare. It was incredible.

 

[Nomad]

Glenn vs barrels yesterday = win

 

[Raziaar]

My bad, I meant to say quickchat commands such as "I see _____" or "______ is a traitor!"

I tried changing my suit zoom to MOUSE3, but it still is kind of confusing.

I only have imwith and traitor bound. R and G key's respectively.

 

[No Limit]

I might have to try this some time.

 

[Xevrex]

aka. "Killer"? Yep, definitely based on that.

Had a psyche-out mindgame in the creepy basement earlier, turned out to be Xevrex the bastard.

If you guys would have just walked into the fire and not tried to listen to the chairs and tables, it would have gone much smoother.

 

[Gargantou]

10 kills as traitor, **** yeah, was playing on Ice Cave's server on ResidentEvil, my best TTT round yet.

 

[Nomad]

Playing right now. Spectating is too boring on this map.

 

[Vegeta897]

Garg you're so awesome I wish I was like you.

 

[Viperidae]

Pwning pubs makes you a man, no doubt!

 

[Eejit]

Played TheThing with Glenn earlier, with 7 of us playing I was sole traitor and smoothly killed em all. God I love misdirection.

 

[Gargantou]

Pwning pubs makes you a man, no doubt!

There were quite a lot of pubes when I was on the HL2 server yesterday, quite a lot indeed, more RDMs than I generally experience on Ice Cave to.

And, as you may have noted on the screenshot, there was not a single RDM that round.

So yes, it does make me a man, at least more a man since I used to be since my previous record of amount of manual kills(i.e. not using traps which doesn't give you points) was 7, and now it's 10.

 

[Raziaar]

Played TheThing with Glenn earlier, with 7 of us playing I was sole traitor and smoothly killed em all. God I love misdirection.

Lying and scheming makes you feel good doesn't it?

 

[Quixoticism]

Had a pretty awesome moments last night. I was traitor on Militia, hiding behind the rocks on the back, and there were two innocents up on the roof talking to each other like good friends do.
I got a headshot on one with the rifle and the other stopped what he was saying to shout, "nooooooooo" and lament on how he had just seen his friend drop dead right in front of his eyes.

Next one was on that large compound map. I was traitor with two others. I managed to get the opportune kill on Vegeta and one other guy right at the start. When half the innocents were dead the three of us just started running together as the rogue firing squad and proceeded around the map wiping everyone out.
This game rocks.

 

[Eejit]

I find most of the cs_ maps to be underwhelming in TTT, too few gun spawns too spread out. They need to be re-rearmed otherwise they don't work with anything over 4 people, if that.

Lying and scheming makes you feel good doesn't it?

Why yes, yes it does.
:cheese:

 

[Raziaar]

Pubbies have to go while we're playing hl2.net games.

Ever since we got our own server, and pubbies have started frequently coming in and filling it up, the quality of games has gone down hill. The level annoying banter has gone up. The game used to have a really charming social element when playing with hl2.net people, but now it's filled with unknowns saying stupid or irrelevant shit.

I'm sick of it.

And don't even get me started on the RDMers... they're a plague on our server.

 

[Vegeta897]

I agree, but I doubt Glenn would tolerate us keeping out the non-regulars.

"It's a community server guys!" **** that. If letting in any random ass people means making it less fun for us, the people who asked for the server, the people responsible for making TTT on hl2.net a success, then that just defeats the point of having the server at all. HL2.netter enjoyment should be paramount.

I know several other frequent players/admins agree with Raz and me on this.

 

[<RJMC>]

dam I met tons of anyoing people

especially this propaniac guy that killed me cuz I didnt "obeyed him" cuz he was a detective and sayed that people that dont obeys detectives must tbe killed cuz are assured traitors and blabla and them killed a bunch of people for no reason including me like once cuz I get very close to him at first and them went on killing me on sight the rest of the rounds till he was banned

 

[Bad^Hat]

Gotta agree, it just becomes obnoxious when you have even 2 or 3 noisy people yelling shit over everything. Turned into a real cluster**** just before I left there, I swear I got implicated a couple times every round for just ****ing standing around because of all the confusion. And my god, whoever kept calling my name every ten seconds... "oh, I'm with BadHat, I'm with BadHat!" WHO GIVES A SHIT, THERE'S LIKE FIVE PEOPLE HERE YOU CRETIN, JESUS.

But hey, up to Glenn and whoever. I'd be fine if we just started policing the server a bit better.

 

[Raziaar]

Gotta agree, it just becomes obnoxious when you have even 2 or 3 noisy people yelling shit over everything. Turned into a real cluster**** just before I left there, I swear I got implicated a couple times every round for just ****ing standing around because of all the confusion. And my god, whoever kept calling my name every ten seconds... "oh, I'm with BadHat, I'm with BadHat!" WHO GIVES A SHIT, THERE'S LIKE FIVE PEOPLE HERE YOU CRETIN, JESUS.

But hey, up to Glenn and whoever. I'd be fine if we just started policing the server a bit better.

Meh. Policing isn't enough. Even people who obey the rules drag the server down.

I just wish we had a HL2.NET only lock on there during times we played.

 

[Krynn72]

Theres been a handful of people who were pubbies that were actually fun to play with. I think if we just liberally ban people who don't listen to us telling them to shut the **** up or play the game right, it will work better than just shutting everyone out.

A password when we have enough .netters makes sense though. But when theres only like 4 or 5 of us, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to play by ourselves.

But yeah, I agree. When we've got 16 people in the server with half of them shouting unecessary shit into their mics its absolutely obnoxious. I don't talk much, but whenever I do nobody hears me because I'm getting talked over.

 

[kineaesth]

I agree, but I doubt Glenn would tolerate us keeping out the non-regulars.

"It's a community server guys!" **** that. If letting in any random ass people means making it less fun for us, the people who asked for the server, the people responsible for making TTT on hl2.net a success, then that just defeats the point of having the server at all. HL2.netter enjoyment should be paramount.

I know several other frequent players/admins agree with Raz and me on this.

A community server would, in fact, probably be more successful if mature players were aware that it was a mature server. There are numerous pubbers that have played that seem like quality folks, and I don't think anyone has a problem with them. I think it would be worthwhile adding something to the server rules about what the expectations are of players playing on the server. We want a good, dependable, enjoyable server, not just a massively popular and populated server.

 

[Gargantou]

Raz, your reasons are why I've not been playing much on HL2.net the recent days, in fact, the few times I have, it has been worse than The Ice Cave which is my other primary public TTT server in terms of RDMing, micspam etc.

 

[MJ12]

I played a little today, but I've gotta ask this-

So I understand that this isn't supposed to be a random deathmatch type game; you can't just start randomly shooting people, you have to use evidence and stuff like that against them. However, at times it can be glaringly obvious that a traitor is stalking you out. Like, you're alone and one person is following you into every single room and trying to corner you, yet you still cant shoot them? I ask this because every single time I had someone stalking me it was definitely a traitor, they opened fire, and of course they won. However... when I shot at them first (they did end up being a traitor of course) everyone is like "You cantt doooo thatttt, you gotta have more evidenceeee". So.... you have to let a traitor fire on you first? That's a huge disadvantage.

 

[Krynn72]

I played a little today, but I've gotta ask this-

So I understand that this isn't supposed to be a random deathmatch type game; you can't just start randomly shooting people, you have to use evidence and stuff like that against them. However, at times it can be glaringly obvious that a traitor is stalking you out. Like, you're alone and one person is following you into every single room and trying to corner you, yet you still cant shoot them? I ask this because every single time I had someone stalking me it was definitely a traitor, they opened fire, and of course they won. However... when I shot at them first (they did end up being a traitor of course) everyone is like "You cantt doooo thatttt, you gotta have more evidenceeee". So.... you have to let a traitor fire on you first? That's a huge disadvantage.

Thats why you call out their name, saying "I'm with so and so", so other people know they're with you. When you go silent, people will know who was following you. The point of the game is to work together, not just figure it out yourself. But if saying their name doesnt deter them, you could just tell them to back off or you're going to shoot them. Give them enough chances to leave you alone, and nobody will get upset even if they were innocent.

Also, I follow people all the time. Usually because I'm suspicious of them.

 

[Calhoun]

I played a little today, but I've gotta ask this-

So I understand that this isn't supposed to be a random deathmatch type game; you can't just start randomly shooting people, you have to use evidence and stuff like that against them. However, at times it can be glaringly obvious that a traitor is stalking you out. Like, you're alone and one person is following you into every single room and trying to corner you, yet you still cant shoot them? I ask this because every single time I had someone stalking me it was definitely a traitor, they opened fire, and of course they won. However... when I shot at them first (they did end up being a traitor of course) everyone is like "You cantt doooo thatttt, you gotta have more evidenceeee". So.... you have to let a traitor fire on you first? That's a huge disadvantage.

I have seen suspicious behavior as well that is an obvious give away. I've seen it regarded as a random deathmatch if you kill that person, though, because you didn't actually witness them trying to murder someone or arming or tossing explosives.

I'm also having issues with suspect identification by collection of a sample from a body. I thought that unless the detective gathered a sample from you after he had already collected a sample from a body, or unless you had used the health station, any sample you left on a body could not be traced back to you but this doesn't seem to be the case from my own experience.

Thats why you call out their name, saying "I'm with so and so", so other people know they're with you. When you go silent, people will know who was following you

I have rarely ever seen this work, definitely not consistently and usually only with very few players alive or playing. Unless you're under attack and identifying who is firing at you, most people won't remember who you were with a minute ago. I'm saying this as an innocent who has been killed shortly after identifying my partner and also as a traitor who has killed shortly after being identified.

 

[Krynn72]

Well thats because people usually spam it. Theres no point in saying it every ten seconds when you're near somebody else, just do it when you're suspicious of them. I mean, its worked several times that I've seen personally. As long as there isn't a bunch of mic spam to drown you out or confuse people, it works.

Also, I just want to say that the funniest thing today was when Raz was in the cornfield blowing up the barrels and vegeta asks him what he is doing, then Raz says "Blowing these up because I know you like to use them to..." and then we hear a huge explosion and Raz stops talking.

I laughed for so long, especially since I think vegeta got away and managed to kill a bunch of people while he was being hunted down.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Well thats because people usually spam it. Theres no point in saying it every ten seconds when you're near somebody else, just do it when you're suspicious of them. I mean, its worked several times that I've seen personally. As long as there isn't a bunch of mic spam to drown you out or confuse people, it works.

For the love of god, this. Nobody cares who you're with 24/7, just save it for instances where you're alone with them in a situation where they could very easily kill you. I am so sick to death of people saying they're "with me" when I ****ing pass them by going the opposite way, or like I pointed out earlier, when we're in a room with several other people who could easily bear witness.

Honestly, I try not to ever say this unless I actually become suspicious, because it really irritates me when people try to play it ultra-safe. Yes, it's annoying to die, yes, you want to win and kill the traitors and be an awesome guy, but standing around with your thumb up your ass and loudly announcing everyone who comes within a mile of you (or worse threatening to ****ing shoot them) is just not fun for anyone.

 

[theGreenBunny]

Personally I do not feel "RDM" requires all that much policing. Innocents killing innocents is part of the game, and more often than not it isn't "random". When someone is actually griefing it's always completely obvious. If someone is blatantly stalking you and you've warned them off, kill them if you want to take the risk. If you're wrong, your karma will punish you for it. Rounds don't last all that long on default settings, it's not a huge thing if you die.

This is only my opinion as the designer of the game. I don't tell servers what they should or should not do with their rules.

 

[kineaesth]

Personally I do not feel "RDM" requires all that much policing. Innocents killing innocents is part of the game, and more often than not it isn't "random". When someone is actually griefing it's always completely obvious. If someone is blatantly stalking you and you've warned them off, kill them if you want to take the risk. If you're wrong, your karma will punish you for it. Rounds don't last all that long on default settings, it's not a huge thing if you die.

This is only my opinion as the designer of the game. I don't tell servers what they should or should not do with their rules.

I suppose that's a fair point, but in all honesty I've never taken much notice of karma at all, and I haven't even registered that fact that it'd dropped the times I've killed other innocents. Perhaps we're a scared, timid bunch, terrified of pulling out a gun in the wrong place in case someone accuses us of something? Or I suppose that's just how we, as a group, end up playing, and it can be quite punishing waiting out for the end of a ten minute long round when you've died in the first two.

 

[Eejit]

I suppose we've just been sensitised to possible RDM because of the players who do kill completely randomly.
Karma is a good idea, but as it resets between map changes (and of course server changes) it's not always a sufficient punishment. Also the damage decrease could perhaps scale more sharply after 800/850 or so. I've seen players who already had karma at around 680 continue to try to randomly murder while innocent and survive the fight. I've also seen those who go on a RDM spree for a map then change server and reappear an hour or two later to repeat their spree.

 

[Gargantou]

I honestly think you should have a system that autobans a person for one hour at least if the karma dips below XXX.

If the person after said ban within the same 24 hours gets banned again, the ban should become successively longer.

 

[Eejit]

I think that could maybe be done serverside though rather than having to be an integral part of the mod.

 

[theGreenBunny]

I'm planning to make the default karma configuration a bit harsher.

Saving across map changes is not going to happen. It invites all kinds of bad behaviour, such as idling to regain karma. I would rather rely on server admins to catch repeat offenders.

I honestly think you should have a system that autobans a person for one hour at least if the karma dips below XXX.

It exists. The default point where you get banned for an hour is 400. Servers can increase this using the "ttt_karma_low_amount" convar setting.

 

[Raziaar]

I played a little today, but I've gotta ask this-

So I understand that this isn't supposed to be a random deathmatch type game; you can't just start randomly shooting people, you have to use evidence and stuff like that against them. However, at times it can be glaringly obvious that a traitor is stalking you out. Like, you're alone and one person is following you into every single room and trying to corner you, yet you still cant shoot them? I ask this because every single time I had someone stalking me it was definitely a traitor, they opened fire, and of course they won. However... when I shot at them first (they did end up being a traitor of course) everyone is like "You cantt doooo thatttt, you gotta have more evidenceeee". So.... you have to let a traitor fire on you first? That's a huge disadvantage.

Not everybody who follows you around, even if done annoyingly or suspiciously so, is actually a traitor.

Some servers have a "if you follow me and I tell you to go away I am allowed to kill you" rule, but I think that's retarded. Kills shouldn't be made unless you have good evidence or a solid deduction. And if that results in you dying before you can cry out your killer's name, or you only manage to squeak something out... so be it. It honestly makes the game more enjoyable, and gives the traitor better chances to do things.

Having people follow you and you don't know why, but warn others on the server they're following you for some unknown reason, ramps up the excitement, for me at least.

Well thats because people usually spam it. Theres no point in saying it every ten seconds when you're near somebody else, just do it when you're suspicious of them. I mean, its worked several times that I've seen personally. As long as there isn't a bunch of mic spam to drown you out or confuse people, it works.

Also, I just want to say that the funniest thing today was when Raz was in the cornfield blowing up the barrels and vegeta asks him what he is doing, then Raz says "Blowing these up because I know you like to use them to..." and then we hear a huge explosion and Raz stops talking.

I laughed for so long, especially since I think vegeta got away and managed to kill a bunch of people while he was being hunted down.

Hmm, maybe it's another moment you're talking about, but what happened was I blew up an explosive barrel in the shed. Vegeta asks what I am doing. I tell him like you said, "Blowing these up because I know you like to use them to... OH OH OH OH..." and silence. What happened was he pulled out his knife and was rushing me with it and I didn't manage to say his name in time, but the tone of my voice everybody knew I had died. It was ****ing hilarious.

Some of my most memorable times are when I die... and I do shit like that, managed to peep out a last word that didn't actually happen to be the killer's name. One time I peeped something out before I died and it got an innocent killed because everybody made the wrong assumptions on who it was that killed me.

Personally I do not feel "RDM" requires all that much policing. Innocents killing innocents is part of the game, and more often than not it isn't "random". When someone is actually griefing it's always completely obvious. If someone is blatantly stalking you and you've warned them off, kill them if you want to take the risk. If you're wrong, your karma will punish you for it. Rounds don't last all that long on default settings, it's not a huge thing if you die.

This is only my opinion as the designer of the game. I don't tell servers what they should or should not do with their rules.

Well, from my experience, and probably one of the reasons we've all taken to liking kills only with pretty good evidence or a really solid deduction, is that people have really poor judgement on when to kill somebody. People kill for the slightest reasons, the slightest suspicions, and it forces the individual(s) they killed to sit the round out, and of course pisses people off.

The worst type of RDM in my opinion is somebody randomly shooting you, and you're the traitor and haven't done anything to warrant any kind of suspicion, and having your traitor round ruined because of it.

I guess each to his own really, but I personally enjoy the type of gaming environment where innocents aren't just blasting other innocents because they think they might be the traitor. I mean, more often than not they're wrong, and sometimes people are just guessing right off the bat that somebody is the traitor, the instant it's assigned.

 

[Vegeta897]

Innocents killing innocents is part of the game, and more often than not it isn't "random".

Sure it's a part of the game, but only when the innocent actually has a good reason to kill him. Say, they think they saw them murder someone but were mistaken, or perhaps running away from an unidentified body while injured, after you just heard a gunfight.

In most cases, innocents killing innocents just leads to one pissed off person, and one very sorry person, or even angry at that innocent person for doing whatever he did to make him kill him. It's funny to the traitors usually, but it's not necessary for the traitors to win.

Me, Raz, Sliver, Viper, and others have seen what happens when people start killing based on suspicion alone. With all due respect to your opinion of how the game should be played as its creator, it's really totally shit, and ruins the game.

And there really isn't any point to autobans on a moderated server such as ours. It would be annoying if a griefer caused one of the regulars just playing normally to get banned for shooting back and losing so much karma that he got autobanned.

Hmm, maybe it's another moment you're talking about, but what happened was I blew up an explosive barrel in the shed. Vegeta asks what I am doing. I tell him like you said, "Blowing these up because I know you like to use them to... OH OH OH OH..." and silence. What happened was he pulled out his knife and was rushing me with it and I didn't manage to say his name in time, but the tone of my voice everybody knew I had died. It was ****ing hilarious.

Yeah, that was a terrible move by me but it was funny as hell. After I made that terrible kill everyone was suspicious of me, so I just started killing anyone I saw. I ran back into the building and killed Wooz along the way, then holed up in a room and started clicking every hand icon I saw out of panic I heard someone saying "AHH ZOMBIES!" so I guess it sort of worked. In the end I got a few more kills but eventually got killed myself.

But what's really funny is that I think the very next round, Raz ****ed up his knife kill on me and I managed to shout out his name a bunch before he stuck it in me

 

[Eejit]

One time "RDM" is good is when traitors manipulate innocents into doing it through deceit. That's always fun, especially when done subtly and with different traitors working together to spin the web of lies. But when a paranoid or bored person decides to kill you for some random reason it's lame.

 

[Raziaar]

The server really gets sloppy when people just start randomly killing innocents because they believe somebody might be a traitor(for whatever shoddy reason).

It becomes less of a mystery game and more of a "Hope I can survive the next stupid bloody shootout that leaves a bunch of innocents and no traitors dead"

Those types of shootouts are FANTASTIC when a traitor instigates them, and innocent kills are forgiven because people don't know what the hell is going on, but when an innocent starts it? It's just sloppy and degrades the gameplay.

 

[Nomad]

^
Like yesterday, when I was a traitor and I managed to kill 9 people and trick 1 into killing another on "ttt_erebar" (or a name similar to that)

RDMers on our server are annoying as hell when you're innocent and typing next to a dead body that YOU found.

 

[Vegeta897]

Which again brings up the importance of having a microphone... Being able to explain yourself quickly instead of being a sitting duck looking like the murderer is a life-saver.

 

[Eejit]

Definitely, microphone makes the game so much better. And if you don't have one make sure you bind a bunch of hotkeys for various messages/use the ingame chat thing as needed. The game is nothing without communication.