U.S. death toll in Iraq passes 1,000

[chimpmunk]

decent humanitary organization? who do you think provides the billions of dollars for foreign aid (somalia, etc). who do you think provides the military support? god.. bringing oil into it.

Have you ever heard of UK, france, germany, canada, australia, russia and all the others?
USA does not finance the UN by itself, nor are they the only ones providing soldiers.

 

[Korgoth]

With an opening statement like this:

Did you honestly expect them to respect the troops?

It is America's War and we stand united. God bless all the soldiers over there now. You are the true heroes.

PS thanks for those links Cooper, they were really eye opening.

This IS Bush's war. We don't stand united, I know many, many Americans who are against this war. Don't try to give bush a free ride and call this the troops war, or americas war becuase it ****ing isn't. I know many troops who didn't want this, i know many americans who didn't want this. We weren't attacked, saddam never invaded us, turns out he wasn't the immediate threat we were led to be. This is bush's war, it was a pre-emptive war. It is his. How you could say otherwise I don't understand. You want to do something good for these troops. How about we get them the hell out of harms way. If you gave two shits about the actual troops you wouldn't want to exploit them by going into iraq under falsehoods, protecting the oil while the rest of the country gets raped by bandits and looters, and then use our men and women as cheap body gaurds for halliburton.

 

[gh0st]

This IS Bush's war. We don't stand united, I know many, many Americans who are against this war. Don't try to give bush a free ride and call this the troops war, or americas war becuase it ****ing isn't. I know many troops who didn't want this, i know many americans who didn't want this. We weren't attacked, saddam never invaded us, turns out he wasn't the immediate threat we were led to be. This is bush's war, it was a pre-emptive war. It is his. How you could say otherwise I don't understand. You want to do something good for these troops. How about we get them the hell out of harms way. If you gave two shits about the actual troops you wouldn't want to exploit them by going into iraq under falsehoods, protecting the oil while the rest of the country gets raped by bandits and looters, and then use our men and women as cheap body gaurds for halliburton.

ill explain this to you as simply as i can.

american soldiers, right now are not dying for george bush. they are dying for us, and for liberty in an opressed country. i dont think any soldier reffers to himself as fighting "bush's war". its ****ing disrespectful and wrong.

 

[chimpmunk]

a metaphor for what. the 5 or so major dictators throughout the world?

There is a lot more, some countries in Eastern european(those not in the EU) and in south america are still under dicatorship.

Same goes with middle east.

And most of dictators were put to power by usa (think saddam)

 

[chimpmunk]

ill explain this to you as simply as i can.

american soldiers, right now are not dying for george bush. they are dying for us, and for liberty in an opressed country. i dont think any soldier reffers to himself as fighting "bush's war". its ****ing disrespectful and wrong.

You my sir, is brainwashed.



how could they be dying for you actually?

 

[Korgoth]

ill explain this to you as simply as i can.

american soldiers, right now are not dying for george bush. they are dying for us, and for liberty in an opressed country. i dont think any soldier reffers to himself as fighting "bush's war". its ****ing disrespectful and wrong.

In your opinion, I don't believe thats why they are there. Sure they aren't dying for bush. They (the soldiers) ARE doing it for the right reasons. But the people that sent them there ARE NOT doing it for the right reasons.

 

[Hazar]

good job ghost.

 

[CptStern]

they are dying for us, and for liberty in an opressed country

who are the iraqi civilains dying for?

 

[KiNG]

sad to hear, but i knew it was coming. that is a lot of men. i wonder how many enemy combatants have been slain.

 

[chimpmunk]

sad to hear, but i knew it was coming. that is a lot of men. i wonder how many enemy combatants have been slain.

and how many were kids, women, and old people, all of them unarmed...

 

[blahblahblah]

Blahblahblah presents the first annual favorite quotes taken from this thread presentation....

*insert clapping*

And you could do better kiddo? I doubt it.

keep believing what you believe. really its a beautiful thing.

You changing your name to CptObvious now?

Really!? How much stock do you own in Israelly firms? Good Investment there Rockafeller...

try to read.

My Google is smarter than your google...

And so it begins!

Do you wear a tinfoil hat so the aliens can't read your brainwaves too?

some of you americans are such pompous asses

When confronted with the facts, resort to ad hominem attacks. True to form.

what are you babbling on about?

Apparently my poorly educated, pompous American brain was unable to grasp them.

facts: I'm not rehashing the hundreds of pages I've written on the subject, you're relatively new it's your duty to get caught up

You my sir, is brainwashed.

Don't you love this stuff?

 

[OrrA]

oh right. unfortunate that the god-blessed-education-system-of-holier-than-thou-canada couldent help you out with that

Ive been keeping up with this topic, and i can't keep my silence anymore. Would you like me to do my best not to do any mistakes to prove to you the Canadian education system isnt a pile of shit? Some of you Americans make me sick. You are not god, you are not better then anyone, and you certainly put your nose in too many things that you should keep it out of.

ill explain this to you as simply as i can.

american soldiers, right now are not dying for george bush. they are dying for us, and for liberty in an opressed country. i dont think any soldier reffers to himself as fighting "bush's war". its ****ing disrespectful and wrong.

Dying for you, the American people? Are you really that brain-washed? Tell me how Saddam was any direct threat to the US? This whole war probably stimulated terrorism more then any other move Bush could have done, and I dont think those fired politicians are bullshitting to get back at Bush. Just give me one simple reason why they would. If what they say is true, then Bush wanted to attack Iraq way before you ever got attacked by terrorists on 9/11, thus this war was not to stop terrorism from threatening all of your lives, it was his own personal agenda.

 

[chimpmunk]

Ive been keeping up with this topic, and i can't keep my silence anymore. Would you like me to do my best not to do any mistakes to prove to you the Canadian education system isnt a pile of shit? Some of you Americans make me sick. You are not god, you are not better then anyone, and you certainly put your nose in too many things that you should keep it out of.




Dying for you, the American people? Are you really that brain-washed? Tell me how Saddam was any direct threat to the US? This whole war probably stimulated terrorism more then any other move Bush could have done, and I dont think those fired politicians are bullshitting to get back at Bush. Just give me one simple reason why they would. If what they say is true, then Bush wanted to attack Iraq way before you ever got attacked by terrorists on 9/11, thus this war was not to stop terrorism from threatening all of your lives, it was his own personal agenda.

he may be canadian, but he's smart.

 

[CptStern]

some estimates are between 13,500 and 45,000 Iraqi soldiers killed in the 6 weeks of war. In a single day 2,000-3,000 Iraqi troops were killed during an April 5 blitz into Baghdad

between 11,000 - 30,000 civilians killed since the end of the war

iraqi soldier body count

civilian source


it's hard to estimate because of this

 

[chimpmunk]

some estimates are between 13,500 and 45,000 Iraqi soldiers in the 6 weeks of war. In a single day 2,000-3,000 Iraqi troops were killed during an April 5 blitz into Baghdad

between 11,000 - 30,000 civilians killed since the end of the war

iraqi soldier body count

civilian source


it's hard to estimate because of this

i think g0sth would agree that almost 100 000 irakis life are worth as much as a thousand americans lifes.

 

[blahblahblah]

Ive been keeping up with this topic, and i can't keep my silence anymore. Would you like me to do my best not to do any mistakes to prove to you the Canadian education system isnt a pile of shit? Some of you Americans make me sick. You are not god, you are not better then anyone, and you certainly put your nose in too many things that you should keep it out of.

I'm sorry isolationsim doesn't work. Oh wait, I shouldn't know about that because I am American, should I?

Dying for you, the American people? Are you really that brain-washed? Tell me how Saddam was any direct threat to the US? This whole war probably stimulated terrorism more then any other move Bush could have done, and I dont think those fired politicians are bullshitting to get back at Bush. Just give me one simple reason why they would. If what they say is true, then Bush wanted to attack Iraq way before you ever got attacked by terrorists on 9/11, thus this war was not to stop terrorism from threatening all of your lives, it was his own personal agenda.

Global economics - Learn about it. You think it is about money, you're damn right it is. To help ensure stability in the middle east. If the US doesn't get a stable supply of oil in the future, the US economy is f'ed. Like every other countries. It frankly sucks that the world has to be this way.

 

[CptStern]

well he got his wish ...in the first gulf war there were an estimated 100,000 iraqi soldiers killed ...vs 148 american soldiers


100,000

vs

148

 

[CptStern]

Global economics - Learn about it. You think it is about money, you're damn right it is. To help ensure stability in the middle east. If the US doesn't get a stable supply of oil in the future, the US economy is f'ed. Like every other countries. It frankly sucks that the world has to be this way.

so the deaths of tens of thousands are worth americans having fuel for their suv's? pardon my french, but you're effing crazy


blahblahblah, sigh ... how many times do we have to go over this?



ah shit I'll skip the usual shite and just answer me this (hold over from our last conversation) ...this goes for Ghost, sgt_shelback and anybody else who supports the war in iraq (war not the soldiers)

why did the US block a UN resolution from the iranian government asking for saddam to be tried for crimes against humanity?

 

[blahblahblah]

well he got his wish ...in the first gulf war there were an estimated 100,000 iraqi soldiers killed ...vs 148 american soldiers


100,000


148

In all seriousisness, isn't that a terrible number. I can't say how much I hate this world at times.

blahblahblah, sigh ... how many times do we have to go over this?

Sigh. Your the web designer. I'm the accountant. I got the business side of stuff down. Anyways, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[CptStern]

In all seriousisness, isn't that a terrible number. I can't say how much I hate this world at times.

then how can you bloody support it???????????????

 

[OrrA]

I'm sorry isolationsim doesn't work. Oh wait, I shouldn't know about that because I am American, should I?

Notice how i said SOME of you Americans? I've met many open-minded individuals over the internet who were Americans, and many would agree with me about Bush and all the propaganda. So many people are ignorant for the very reason that they get fed so much propaganda they start to really believe it. There are many ignorant people in Canada as well, but you don't see us going around starting wars everywhere for our profit, instead we send troops to wars to provide with medical care, food and communications.

Global economics - Learn about it. You think it is about money, you're damn right it is. To help ensure stability in the middle east. If the US doesn't get a stable supply of oil in the future, the US economy is f'ed. Like every other countries. It frankly sucks that the world has to be this way.

Yes, i know global economics, up to a point. I can see the panic the lack of oil in the US would create, but I believe thats why we must concentrate our ressources on researching other methods to make our cars work, and anything that uses oil or limited ressources. Research that instead of going after ressources that will run dry in a century.. oh wait I forgot, it's harder to do that then go to war and profit with millions from those ressources.. electric cars dont sell for as much money as god if i know how much oil there is in Iraq, because afterall, when we run out of oil, WE won't be here anymore, right? Let our children figure it out.

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

What I find ironic is that they count every dead u.s soldier, but I wonder...Do they have a figure of the innocent dead iraqi civilians? I'd bet it's a higher number than the u.s soldiers. So what about them?

 

[CptStern]

What I find ironic is that they count every dead u.s soldier, but I wonder...Do they have a figure of the innocent dead iraqi civilians? I'd bet it's a higher number than the u.s soldiers. So what about them?

some estimates are between 13,500 and 45,000 Iraqi soldiers killed in the 6 weeks of war. In a single day 2,000-3,000 Iraqi troops were killed during an April 5 blitz into Baghdad

between 11,000 - 30,000 civilians killed since the end of the war

iraqi soldier body count

civilian source


it's hard to estimate because of this

________

 

[blahblahblah]

then how can you bloody support it???????????????

I don't.

I belief that humanity is inherently evil. If Bush didn't get into office, one would suspect that Gore would have killed those civilians in Iraq, or some other country. The US spends the vast majority of its time in military conflict. If I took a realistic position according to your beliefs, I would either leave the country or stop voting. I don't like either of those options. I vote for whatever one I think will do the most good.

 

[seinfeldrules]

so the deaths of tens of thousands are worth americans having fuel for their suv's? pardon my french, but you're effing crazy

It wasnt over oil, so I dont see how you are playing the fuel card. Fuel in my area (and the whole US) has gone up a lot since the start of the war.

why did the US block a UN resolution from the iranian government asking for saddam to be tried for crimes against humanity?

If this was during the 1980s then I suggest you do a little research on Iranian - US relations during the time.

instead we send troops to wars to provide with medical care, food and communications.

You're saying we dont do this as well. That is a disservice to America.

 

[Korgoth]

This is what i'm trying to fight:

One thing George W. Bush forgot to mention at the Republican National Convention was that, if reelected, he would soon bring back the military draft.

• “The official view from the Pentagon is that all is going well in Iraq and that the US forces are more than ready to continue the global war against terrorism….The reality is that US forces are now severely overstretched and the number of their military commitments worldwide is increasing by the day.”-- Jane's Intelligence Digest, August 2003

• “[VP Cheney] has said the US is considering military or other action against ‘40 to 50 countries’ and warns that the new war may last 50 years or more.”-- John Pilger, Daily Mirror, 1/29/02

• “[…the active Army would be unable to sustain an occupation force of the present size beyond March 2004 if it chose not to keep individual units deployed to Iraq for longer than one year without relief.”-- Douglas Holtz-Eakin, Director of the Congressional Budget Office, quoted on BuzzFlash.com, 12/23/03

• “We've failed to convince our allies to send troops, we've extended deployments so morale is sinking, and the president is saying we can't cut and run. So what's left? …at some point, we're going to need more troops, and at that point the only way to get them will be a return to the draft.”-- Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY), Salon.com, 11/3/03

• “We're not going to reimplement a draft. There is no need for it at all.”-- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/7/03 (Translated: “The draft will start right after Bush is reelected.”)

• “Pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills S 89 and HR 163) would time the program so the draft could begin at early as Spring 2005 -- conveniently just after the 2004 presidential election!”-- Adam Stutz, Project Censored, 1/28/04

You can tell the Chickenhawks have been working on this for a while. They want to make sure no one can avoid the draft—like they did.

• “A little-noticed provision in a new federal education law requires high schools to provide names, addresses, and phone numbers of students to military recruiters. Schools that refuse to comply face losing federal education funding under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act.”-- Boston Globe, 11/21/02 (Now you know what they mean by “No Child Left Behind”.)

• “If a military draft were to return, it would not be the same as during the Vietnam War. Because of the widespread concern that sons in wealthy and politically connected families can easily avoid the draft, no educational exemptions are expected this time, except to allow the completion of a term or for a senior to complete the year. Because of the extensive completion of extradition treaties, for example, the 2001 Smart Border Declaration, escaping to Canada or Sweden, or about any other country, would not be an option.”-- Carol Van Houten, The Register-Guard, 6/25/04

• “[A bill has been introduced] that would require that all males and females between the ages of 18 and 26 perform two years of ‘service.’ …any draftees that were not needed by the military would be assigned to a civilian job that, ‘as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.’”-- Draft Notices, Nov.-Dec., 2003

• “In line with today's needs, the Selective Service System's structure, programs and activities should be re-engineered toward maintaining a national inventory of American men and, for the first time, women, ages 18 through 34, with an added focus on identifying individuals with critical skills.”-- Selective Service System proposal, 2/11/03; quoted in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, 5/1/04

• “$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. SSS must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation.”-- Adam Stutz, Project Censored, 1/28/04

So, if you are of draft age or you have children or grandchildren of draft age, or you care about someone of draft age; in other words—everyone—vote for John Kerry and send Bush back to Texas before he can do any more harm. His military misadventures have already caused thousands of deaths and torn apart the lives of tens of thousands of military families.

• “If you have a child who will be fourteen years old in the next few months, they could be on the battlefield before the end of a second Bush term.”-- Charles Cutter, Magic City Morning Star, 7/8//04

 

[blahblahblah]

Yes, i know global economics, up to a point. I can see the panic the lack of oil in the US would create, but I believe thats why we must concentrate our ressources on researching other methods to make our cars work, and anything that uses oil or limited ressources. Research that instead of going after ressources that will run dry in a century.. oh wait I forgot, it's harder to do that then go to war and profit with millions from those ressources.. electric cars dont sell for as much money as god if i know how much oil there is in Iraq, because afterall, when we run out of oil, WE won't be here anymore, right? Let our children figure it out.

There have been massive leaps and bounds in the alternative energy segment of business. However, there is a lot of work that needs to be done.

Throwing millions of dollars into research will not fix the problem immediately. That takes time. For example, a million dollar computer today would be the equivalent to a $1000 computer in ten years. There is a certain amount of time that is required for alternatives to be fully explored. Its a bit sad that companies didn't start earlier. Then again, who knows if the technology was up to par to create an alternative power source.

 

[gh0st]

You my sir, is brainwashed.



how could they be dying for you actually?

they die for ideals which we represent. well america, not you.

What I find ironic is that they count every dead u.s soldier, but I wonder...Do they have a figure of the innocent dead iraqi civilians? I'd bet it's a higher number than the u.s soldiers. So what about them?

they count every dead us soldier because its easy: there are records on them, they have tags, etc. not easy in iraq to find out the exact number of dead. i bet its a higher number as well, but i'd also be willing to bet a lot of the killing wasent done by US bombs or weapons, but was done by insurgents who target virtually anyone.

why did the US block a UN resolution from the iranian government asking for saddam to be tried for crimes against humanity?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3320717.stm

3 days later

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3329671.stm

i think its obvious what their intents were.

i think g0sth would agree that almost 100 000 irakis life are worth as much as a thousand americans lifes.

agreed, human life is precious and shouldent be mass murdered by a tyrant dictator. wouldent you agree?

You are not god, you are not better then anyone, and you certainly put your nose in too many things that you should keep it out of.

i never said i was, my comment was in direct response to chipmunks ignorant post.

[some] Americans make me sick.

that makes 2 of us.

who are the iraqi civilains dying for?

i was watching cnn, and i saw testimony from several captains, and several colonels regarding how in their experiences, dealing with iraqi civilians has been pleasant, and that they are glad to have us there. im trying to find the video right now.

In your opinion, I don't believe thats why they are there. Sure they aren't dying for bush. They (the soldiers) ARE doing it for the right reasons. But the people that sent them there ARE NOT doing it for the right reasons.

what are the right reasons? no one deserves to live under oppression.

 

[CptStern]

It wasnt over oil, so I dont see how you are playing the fuel card. Fuel in my area (and the whole US) has gone up a lot since the start of the war.

it's about control of the supply and gaining a foothold in the middle east ...oh and pissing off the opec nations

If this was during the 1980s then I suggest you do a little research on Iranian - US relations during the time.

so you're saying that it was ok for them to aid in mass murder and circumvent justice because they were the enemy?

oh btw did you forget about the iran/contra affair that got ollie north is so much trouble? here's a refresher:

"In the Iran-Contra Affair, United States President Ronald Reagan's administration secretly sold arms to Iran, which was engaged in a bloody war with its neighbor Iraq from 1980 to 1988 (see Iran-Iraq War), and diverted the proceeds to the Contra rebels fighting to overthrow the leftist and democratically-elected Sandinista government of Nicaragua."


sounds like they didnt care who they sold the WMD to

source

 

[CptStern]

I don't.

I belief that humanity is inherently evil. If Bush didn't get into office, one would suspect that Gore would have killed those civilians in Iraq, or some other country.

oh come on that's a little thin ...so you're saying that if kerry wins and the US pulls out, New zealand (insert country here)might just move in and slaughter the iraqis?

The US spends the vast majority of its time in military conflict.

of it's own making: niceragua, panama, honduras, el salvador etc etc

If I took a realistic position according to your beliefs, I would either leave the country or stop voting.

why not just vote against bush, it's easier

I vote for whatever one I think will do the most good.

you've stated in the past that you support bush, how can he possibly make it better if he started it in the first place?

 

[seinfeldrules]

oh btw did you forget about the iran/contra affair that got ollie north is so much trouble?

Did I ever say that? I am really confused. You seem to just love throwing words in people's mouths. Take a deep breath before you next accusation

so you're saying that it was ok for them to aid in mass murder and circumvent justice because they were the enemy?

We fixed that problem didnt we.

it's about control of the supply and gaining a foothold in the middle east ...oh and pissing off the opec nations

Iraq is going to be an individual nation free from US control. We helped other countries and it didnt work out for us, so foothold is quite an assumption.

 

[seinfeldrules]

oh come on that's a little thin ...so you're saying that if kerry wins and the US pulls out,

Kerry wont pull them out so it is a null point.

why not just vote against bush,

Because he likes voting for the canidate that will do the best as President, that is Bush.

he started it in the first place?

How about all the Senators *hint hint* that voted for the same thing.

 

[OrrA]

instead we send troops to wars to provide with medical care, food and communications.

You're saying we dont do this as well. That is a disservice to America.

I did not mean that you don't do it as well, but we dont advocate violence and never will. My father happens to be in the military, and none of his missions have ever consisted of anything else then feeding the children, providing water in abundance to our best capabilities and healing the wounded. We don't get any profit from doing this at all.

As for any other argument pro-war, I think CptStern's opinion is near to a mirror to mine on this subject, so I dont need to say any more.

 

[CptStern]

i bet its a higher number as well, but i'd also be willing to bet a lot of the killing wasent done by US bombs or weapons, but was done by insurgents who target virtually anyone.

7000 iraqi civilans died during the actual war as a direct result of coalition bombing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3320717.stm

3 days later

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3329671.stm

i think its obvious what their intents were.

I was referring to the UN resolutions from 1983 -1988. Here read this, here's an excerpt:

"The US was well aware of the use of chemical weapons. The Secretary of State later acknowledged he had been aware of reports from 1983, and an expert team from the UN confirmed Iraqi chemical attacks in March 1984. Nevertheless, the US administration provided "crop-spraying" helicopters to Iraq, which were subsequently used in chemical attacks on the Kurds in 1988. It gave Iraq access to intelligence information that allowed Iraq to "calibrate" its mustard attacks on Iranian troops in 1984. It seconded its air force officers to work with their Iraqi counterparts from 1986. It approved technological exports to Iraq's missile procurement agency to extend the missiles' range in 1988, and blocked bills condemning Iraq in the House of Representatives (1985) and Senate (1988).

Most crucially, the US and UK blocked condemnation of Iraq's known chemical weapons attacks at the UN Security Council. No resolution was passed during the war that specifically criticised Iraq's use of chemical weapons, despite the wishes of the majority. The only reproach from the Security Council was in the form of non-binding Presidential statements (over which no country has a veto). A statement in March 1986 recognised that "chemical weapons on many occasions have been used by Iraqi forces against Iranian forces". This statement was opposed by the US, the only country to vote against it in the Security Council. The UK abstained."

agreed, human life is precious and shouldent be mass murdered by a tyrant dictator. wouldent you agree?

Lesley Stahl from 60 minutes asked:

"We have heard that half a million children have died [referring to sanctions in iraq]. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? "

Madeline Albright replied:

"I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it. "

i was watching cnn, and i saw testimony from several captains, and several colonels regarding how in their experiences, dealing with iraqi civilians has been pleasant, and that they are glad to have us there. im trying to find the video right now.

I can point out a hundred images of iraqis protesting the american occupation

what are the right reasons? no one deserves to live under oppression.

is this a mission of mercy?

[ this is where the link to the various images of iraqis being tortured would go if I didnt think it was in bad taste ]

iraqi death toll over the last 13 years: 500,000 children, 100,000 soldiers, 10's of thosands of civilans


albright:

"I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."

 

[gh0st]

Lesley Stahl from 60 minutes asked:

"We have heard that half a million children have died [referring to sanctions in iraq]. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it? "

Madeline Albright replied:

"I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it. "

right...which administration are we talking about here? also, using abu ghraib as a accurate representation of our troops is disgusting.

 

[CptStern]

Did I ever say that? I am really confused. You seem to just love throwing words in people's mouths. Take a deep breath before you next accusation

nice side stepping of the issue. so you agree with supplying both sides with wmd so they can commit atrocities against each other, the civilan populace and ethnic groups (kurds)?

We fixed that problem didnt we.

I usually dont resort to this, but you really are dimwitted if you can believe supporting the use of wmd and then condemning it is anything but hypocritical

Iraq is going to be an individual nation free from US control. We helped other countries and it didnt work out for us, so foothold is quite an assumption.

bwahhahahhahah ...I have some swampland in the Yukon for sale if you're interested


is that why they put into power a known terrorist, murderer and cia employee as Prime Minister of Iraq? Iyad Allawi


gh0st:

right...which administration are we talking about here? .

who cares? why does it matter if it was president a or b ..it STILL HAPPENED!!!

also, using abu ghraib as a accurate representation of our troops is disgusting

93 cases of abuse, cia torture, civilan murders etc ...but you're right, not all are like that, just a couple of them ...ok more than just a couple of them

 

[OrrA]

While we're here discussing about Bush and his politics, how about I remind you of the time he wanted to shut down gwbush.com?

When asked at a news conference in May what he thought about the site, Bush let loose, saying it was produced by a "garbage man" and suggesting that "there ought to be limits to freedom"--a line Bush's online critics have vowed to never let the world forget.

source

I dont know anyone in their right minds who would vote for someone who advocates sensorship..

 

[seinfeldrules]

nice side stepping of the issue.

I never mentioned Ollie North, I dont see how I am sidestepping any issue.

so you agree with supplying both sides with wmd so they can commit atrocities against each other

We never gave WMD to Iran.

I usually dont resort to this, but you really are dimwitted if you can believe supporting the use of wmd and then condemning it is anything but hypocritical

Can you make it through a post without insults? You claim the moral high ground, then you resort to this? Come on. Again, Iran was on our bad side coming out of the 80s. Harboring terrorists known to have hijacked planes and killed civilians, charging our embassy and holding hostages for years at a time. Of course we would have supported an unknown regime at that point. It was the wrong course of action.

is that why they put into power a known terrorist, murderer and cia employee as Prime Minister of Iraq? Iyad Allawi

There you go with that 'commondream site' again. What was its motto again? Oh yeah, "Breaking News and Views for the Progressive Community". I am not even going to waste my time reading the article. Take a look at some of the sites Cooper posted.

iraqi death toll over the last 13 years: 500,000 children, 100,000 soldiers, 10's of thosands of civilans

You again fail to mention they were UN sanctions (also the millions Saddam killed). If Saddam hadnt laundered all the Oil for Food money then maybe this wouldnt have happened. You seem wayyyyyyy too willing to blame the US first, Saddam second on these types of matters.

 

[gh0st]

who cares? why does it matter if it was president a or b ..it STILL HAPPENED!!!

maybe its just me, but i dont think its fair to for some reason blame bush for sanctions created before he even took office. must be part of the great liberal conspiracy, where bush has caused all wrongs. zell might as well blame e. lee for losing the war.

93 cases of abuse, cia torture, civilan murders etc ...but you're right, not all are like that, just a couple of them ...ok more than just a couple of them

93 huh. theres 120000 american troops in iraq currently. i wonder how many murders, and cases of abuse there are per year in a city of comparable size? probably significantly more. sorry you have such loathing for our imperial legions.

there are 962 "crimes of violence" in canada per 100,000 people, just to put it in perspective. i certainly dont hold it against you.

 

[blahblahblah]

oh come on that's a little thin ...so you're saying that if kerry wins and the US pulls out, New zealand (insert country here)might just move in and slaughter the iraqis?

Has US history proved me wrong yet?

bwahhahahhahah ...I have some swampland in the Yukon for sale if you're interested

How much?