U.S. Military Draft

DarkStar

DarkStar

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Well, look like some draft talk is hitting capital hill again. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1521&u=/afp/20040420/pl_afp/us_iraq_military_draft&printer=1

Looks like the mounting casualties are making an impact on legislators. Personally, even though I completely disagree with the war and everything it reresents, I would probably go to Iraq if drafted. Although I'd be scared as hell if it came to that. I believe in the core principles and beliefes this nation was founded upon too much to give that all up by dodging the draft. Would you Americans out there go to Iraq if you were drafted? Leave the country? Go to jail?
 
DarkStar said:
Personally, even though I completely disagree with the war and everything it reresents, I would probably go to Iraq if drafted. Although I'd be scared as hell if it came to that.
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I would hate to die fighting for a cause I had no belief in. Concientious objector.

"There's not an American ... that doesn't understand what we are engaged in today..." - Senator Chuck Hagel.
Course not.

"Why shouldn't we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?" - As above
And the tax dollars pillaged from education to further feed the already grotesque military budget would be?
 
They wouldn't until the election passes, and even then I'd doubt they'd institute a draft since the American society has been so akin to hate them.
And if they were to draft for the Iraqi conflict, I'd conscientiously object.
 
well, at 26 i think i'm too old for the draft, unless it's really extensive. in any case i'd thought about this before. it's an interesting question. i think i probably would have gone to afghanistan, though if i were there now, i'd definitely have some misgivings about the mismanagement by my ultimate supervisors.

iraq is a different story, though. imo, it was an unjust war, and i'm neither dying nor killing for at best a mistake, at worst an out-right fraud perpetrated by my government. canada? i'm not sure about that.. i guess it would either be ex-patriate or go to prison, right? i dunno much about that, plz correct me if anyone knows the actually legalities of refusing the draft. it would depend on the penalty, but if it's war or canada.. well, i hear vancouver is a nice place.
 
That's ridiculous. Where did you hear that? We have plenty of troops...
 
drafts in western nations are basically dead now. The only way I could see a draft occuring in the U.S. would be if some sort of alien invasion or apocalyptic style scenerio occured.
 
I don't believe in a draft system, but if such was called upon the people I'd like to think many of you who share this country with me would answer the call. And those of you who oppose don't lie and say you would go to Afghanistan, because we all know you wouldn't. If a draft is to ever be instated, make yourself at home in Canada, after the whatever war it would be is over, it would be more wrong to come back than to have left in the first place.
 
If drafted i would go, Ive been around the military all my life, i have too much respect for soldiers not to go.

Originally Posted by Loshadka
Cut off your finger and you will be released.
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im not sure i would go to that extreme not to go, like others said, be a concientious objector
 
BTW: For those of you thinking too much of yourselves to join, you wouldn't have to actually fight in the draft. Drafts are for over all services, even including cooks to feed the troops. If such a thing as a draft occurs, then you can apply to be a cook, engineer, etc. Or, you can sign-up before you're drafted, or even sign-up immediately after being drafted. Such tactics would garuantee you a spot not in the field, unless the place you're at is bobmed, or otherwise. I know some Nam Vets who also said if you do that, you can choose your branch to join, rather than being blindly thrown into one. One of them didn't want to be in the Army, so when he was drafted,he signed-up for the NAVY. He wasn't a cook or anything like that, but he at least got to be in the branch of his choice.
 
a draft would be horrid and unlikely, anyway I wouldnt want to see people fighting for somthing they dont believe in, like you said. Id hate to think Bush would draft people with other talents, into a battle for all of that black gold he is after.
 
GhostValkyrie said:
And those of you who oppose don't lie and say you would go to Afghanistan, because we all know you wouldn't.
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oh, i should have known GV knew my answer for me.. thx GV. strike my response and fill in what GV think.. wait, what GV knows i would have done. since it can be hard to recognize on these forums, let me say my above statement is indeed sarcasm.

be you a cook, soldier, or strategist of some sort, you're still supporting the war. some people are only opposed to dying or killing for something they're not certain about. others however, myself included don't believe in supporting the military actions of a government that is actively lying about an unjust war they perpetrated on the world. let me restate. had they institued a draft after 9/11 to fight in afghanistan, (while it's next to impossible to know hypotheticals), i imagine i would have accepted the draft because i would have believed it necessary to destroy al-qaeda. iraq is a completely different issue, and while some people may not distiguish between the two, i do. it's really not that hard to understand.
 
I think the draft is a horrible idea, putting people in a war who don't want to be there. I agree with the war and the draft would not effect me at all because I plan on going into the military anyways, but I am against the draft because it causes things like Vietnam, a bunch of incompetant soldiers who don't care about the war and aren't there willingly at all. But I don't think a draft putting people into non-combat positions is too bad.
 
I'd go if there was a draft, but thats beside the point.
No one likes the draft. The public hates them, especially in a controversial war. The military hates them because they don't get to choose who they accept, its random. And politicians hate them because it makes them look bad.
Not that I'd ever get anywhere close to combat with a bad set of eyes and flat feet. I'd probably make a good engineering candidate though.
 
Foxtrot said:
I think the draft is a horrible idea, putting people in a war who don't want to be there. I agree with the war and the draft would not effect me at all because I plan on going into the military anyways, but I am against the draft because it causes things like Vietnam, a bunch of incompetant soldiers who don't care about the war and aren't there willingly at all. But I don't think a draft putting people into non-combat positions is too bad.
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Um, I'd be careful about calling soldiers from Vietnam "incompetant" and saying they "didn't care about the war." Those soldiers did their duty in a horribly messed up war that no one really wanted to fight in the first place and then were condemned later for having fought in it. I think they've gone through enough to not deserve such an attitude toward them.
 
If there was a draft I'd probably go. I believe my 1337 CS skillz would totally own any enemy soldier I'd go up against. Especially with my uber ability to walk up a completely vertical ladder with no hands and my rifle ready to fire.
 
I didn't mean to generalize all draftees like that, but almost all the people drafted were from the bottom rung of society. Just after reading a book like The Things They Carried and seeing how selfish some draftees could be it makes me mad. I know a lot of Vietnam vets so I wouldn't want to offend any.
 
pat_thetic said:
That's ridiculous. Where did you hear that? We have plenty of troops...
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Ummm...check out the link in my original post...yeah.
 
The Mullinator said:
drafts in western nations are basically dead now. The only way I could see a draft occuring in the U.S. would be if some sort of alien invasion or apocalyptic style scenerio occured.
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I agree. I meant it mainly as a hypothetical question.
 
yeah i would. it would seriously be difficult to live with myself if i didnt. and for the "Concientious objectors" seriously cut that pussy shit out. thats the same tactic leeches use to get into the army and get out of fighting and still get their damn paychecks, its pathetic. even if you dont believe in the war you still believe in your countries soldiers, and you protect them, because they are protecting you.
 
Lil' Timmy said:
oh, i should have known GV knew my answer for me.. thx GV. strike my response and fill in what GV think.. wait, what GV knows i would have done. since it can be hard to recognize on these forums, let me say my above statement is indeed sarcasm.
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Okay, point proven about that. I'm sorry I made that generalist statement, I was only crabby because I don't like the thought of people who slip out of a country on account of not wanting to help. Maybe you're not like that, sorry I pointed the finger.

Anyway, you could try to look at the good coming out of the situation. They'll soon be a free country, how soon soon is I don't know. Even if election are held this year, I think a military presence will be needed to not only help prevent Oustings, but an invasion by Iran.

BTW: I just remembered something funny from Futurama.
"I refuse to fight. I'm a Conscientious objector." - Bender
"A what?" - Fry
"You know, a coward." - Bender
I wish I could have gotten the sound file, but it disappeared, and I can't find the site I had gotten it from.
 
I don't believe in the war, as a matter of fact I hate the current adminstration and think that this war was nothing more than a business deal. Despite that, I would still go to war. When I'm 40 I don't want to look back on my life thinking some other sap died in my place.
 
Lil'Timmy: max draft age (at leaster durning the 60's/70's) is 27.

I think it's pretty sad that they're thinking about a draft now.... we jsut recently topped 700 dead americans. In vietnam we lsot more than 50,000 americans. 700 isn't depleating our military forces at all... we have at least 100,000 troops in our armed forces.... it's not like were loosing massive amounts at a rapid clip.
 
It is also sad that we are pretty much the only country to step up and take care of other countries problems.
 
SidewinderX143 said:
we have at least 100,000 troops in our armed forces
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Are you kidding? There are 135,000 troops in Iraq right now. We have so many more that are in the reserves and at home. We also have some that are intraining right now. The U.S. didn't send every single soldier in this country to fight the war, there are many that are here.

Not to mention the Navy. The navy is huge as well, there are so many fighter pilots, helo pilots, Navy SEALs, and aircraft carrier captains and maintenance crews just to name a few. The USA, Russia, and China have the largest militaries in the world.

I'll even bet that the Iraqis had plenty more than 100,000 guys.

Did you mean that we have at least 100,000 in Iraq right now? If so, sorry for the lesson :thumbs:
 
gh0st said:
yeah i would. it would seriously be difficult to live with myself if i didnt. and for the "Concientious objectors" seriously cut that pussy shit out. thats the same tactic leeches use to get into the army and get out of fighting and still get their damn paychecks, its pathetic. even if you dont believe in the war you still believe in your countries soldiers, and you protect them, because they are protecting you.
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Look it's a generalized statement about how all previous and future concientious objectors are just pussies. Well more precisely he said they're people that are doing pussy shit stuff and should stop. More or less the same statement though. If I had to go to war would I? Yes I would (some of you may think I'm just saying this because it's just a forum reply, but in real life I would say and act the same). Would I call people who didn't want to risk dying for a political cause they didn't believe in pussies? No.
 
Our overall Military has roughly 1.6 million troops(And that's recovering from Clinton's cuts), it had 3 million until Clinton went crazy with shutting bases down and cutting military spending, but that's beside the point. Actually, Saddam's military was roughly 500,000 strong, we supposedly wiped out 100,000 within the first 4 weeks of battle. I'm not too sure that's true. But I wouldn't put it past our military to achieve it.
 
Clinton was an asshat to the military, my dad lost his job because Clinton cut back on spending so much.
 
The thing about the American Military is it's been voluntary so all people who join actually want to be there. Plus with a smaller army it is more agile and technologically advanced than any other in the world (also probably one of the best trained but least experienced).

We'll never need a huge army because we have nukes and any conflict big enough to require more troops that we already have would most likely be against another world super-power with nuclear capabilities At least that's my opinion.
 
Not true, along with the brave men I will be shipped with next month some I know are in it for an education or other means. Some said they don't even care about this country, they just want to go to school. Wait, change that, non of the men I'm being shipped with are in this for the US except 1. Out of 2 people in my local area, him and I were the only ones who replied we were doing this for our country. Trust me, lots of soldiers aren't soldiers, they're leeches.
 
Im undecisive. If/when the draft happens, I sorta want to go fight for myself. Then again, putting myself at risk without choice is kinda lame. Its like your being forced to jump off a cliff where the landing is either clouds or sharp rocks with people shooting at you while falling. ( wow, i just thought of that simile on the top of my head, and its pretty cool :] )
 
I don't know what to think of the war myself. On one hand, it was pretty much unprovoked. On the other hand, saddam was a tyrant, and not continuing to fight terrorism and terrorist-supporting nations will only show weakness, and ultimately lead to more innocent deaths. It needs to be stamped out as best it can. America can't show fear of taking action, or else such things will only continue.
my spoon is too big
Should a draft come around, I would probably accept reluctantly.
 
Ack, can't edit post. I meant 20. So far there are 20 of us at the local recruiting office being shipped out. and only 2 are in this for the country's defense. That's 1 tenth. Imagine if only 1 tenth of our entire military thinks that way?
 
GhostValkyrie said:
Ack, can't edit post. I meant 20. So far there are 20 of us at the local recruiting office being shipped out. and only 2 are in this for the country's defense. That's 1 tenth. Imagine if only 1 tenth of our entire military thinks that way?
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Still doesn't matter. They might be in it for schooling but they'll be trained just as good as those who are there for more patriotic purposes. When they have to fight for their lives and the lives of their friends it won't matter what they joined for.
 
Well, I'm sure I wouldn't meet the physical requirements to be drafted, but if I did, I would go. I mean, military isn't my first occupational choice, but if my country needed me, I would go. My MOS preference would be artillary, so I wouldn't necessarily be front line, but then front line would be bad for me (somewhat of a coward, plus even though I'm right-handed and place rifles on my right shoulder, my right eye happens to be my bad eye, so I'd be a shooting range disaster :p).
 
GhostValkyrie said:
Okay, point proven about that. I'm sorry I made that generalist statement, I was only crabby because I don't like the thought of people who slip out of a country on account of not wanting to help. Maybe you're not like that, sorry I pointed the finger.

Anyway, you could try to look at the good coming out of the situation. They'll soon be a free country, how soon soon is I don't know. Even if election are held this year, I think a military presence will be needed to not only help prevent Oustings, but an invasion by Iran.
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GV, i know where you're coming from, you've made your stance pretty clear since i've been on these forums.

this is now somewhat off-topic, but my disagreement with you comes down to the fate of iraq itself, and what it means about our leadership. no one can tell the future, but i don't share your optimism about either the current state of iraq or it's future. before the war, lots of people believed that the current "quagmire" situation would evolve out of the US war plans. the question comes down to how expensive is freedom?

when you remove the force (be it murderous and tyrannical) that stablizes a fractious nation.. you're gonna get civil war. it's almost a given. i've said it before, and i'll say it again. imo, iraq looks like it's headed for a sectarian civil war, or a simple shiite fundamentalist theocracy that will be no better for iraqis than the bathists.

afghanistan was a good model, tbh. the taliban was the faction that had the power, and they destroyed the majority of the other post-soviet afghan factions. the hazara were especially badly hit, but uzbeks and tajiks got persecuted and crushed by the pattan-dominated taliban too. that's why they all joined the northern alliance. and we all remember that not long before we invaded, the taliban started branding non-muslims ala hitler's identification badges.

personally (and i truely hope i'm wrong), i think iraq is an extremely tribal society that could very easily turn down the same road as afghanistan. by all outward appearances, it seems like the longer the US is there, the more likely the majority (shiites) will be to really take over with force when we do pull out. national iraqi resentment seems to be growing, not being stifled by our presence.

i dunno, it's a complex issue. on one hand, because of what i've presented above, i feel like the US needs to maintain a force in order to prevent the total ruination of iraq. certainly now we have that responsibility. in that sense, i'd be more likely to accept a draft now than i would have been before the war started. the latter was an unjust war, imo, but the former case is righting a wrong.

that said, i can't help but feel that our military presence in iraq is what is actually stoking the fire our military is currently tasked with extinguishing. i'm the type of person that certainly won't commit to dying or killing (or seriving in a support role) unless i have almost no doubts about the motivations and logistics of the operation. i have serious doubts about both in this case.

i personally find it repugnant that some people seem to jump right in or out of the question at hand with very little thought about the reality of the situation. it is neither virtuous nor patriotic in my view to blindly reject or serve your government. i'm not accusing you of this at all GV, you seem to be pretty thoughtful about it all, but we disagree on the analysis it seems.

anyway, if i become convinced that maintaining a US presence in iraq is truely in the best interest of iraqis and americans, i could be persuaded to accept a draft calling, but that seems unlikely at this point.
 
This is slightly off topic, but everytime I see this thread, I keep thinking "Military Draft" says "Hilary Duff"

/me gouges his eyes out with a spoon
 
Shuzer said:
This is slightly off topic, but everytime I see this thread, I keep thinking "Military Draft" says "Hilary Duff"

/me gouges his eyes out with a spoon
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How do you see that? You little Perve. :O

~
I would go into the military if the U.S. needed me. I am way too patriotic.
 
fizzlephox said:
Look it's a generalized statement about how all previous and future concientious objectors are just pussies. Well more precisely he said they're people that are doing pussy shit stuff and should stop. More or less the same statement though. If I had to go to war would I? Yes I would (some of you may think I'm just saying this because it's just a forum reply, but in real life I would say and act the same). Would I call people who didn't want to risk dying for a political cause they didn't believe in pussies? No.
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its a generalized statement saying "yes, go ahead and attend your peace rallies, go ahead and object to the war" but do not let your personal beliefs rise above another american (esp soldiers) life. how could you live with yourself knowing that some other guy with a family died for you? get the hell out of america if you arent willing to go to war for it (not directed at you in particular, obviously)
 
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